Our addiction to the internet is as harmful as any drug – and what passes for comment these days is often simply foul abuse

Something is rotten in the state of technology. I only realised the extent of this when I wrote last year about an Irish government minister who had committed suicide just before Christmas 2012, partly because – according to his brother at the graveside – he had received so many abusive messages on the internet. The response from those claiming to be “readers” of this newspaper was 1) to suggest that the brother was lying; 2) that the minister deserved to die because of his policies (which included cuts in care homes); and 3) to condemn the dead minister for not being thoughtful enough to postpone his suicide until after Christmas.

Was it always like this? Did these hateful anonymous messages arrive when “Letters to the Editor” was the only way to express feelings – in print, of course – about other human beings? “Name and address supplied” was the last straw in anonymity that any editor permitted. But now anonymity must be protected, cosseted, guarded, because privacy, even privacy to abuse, is more important than responsibility. “Online comment” – and the “comment” bit definitely deserves a “sic” – takes precedence over criminal threats.

As I travel around the world to lecture on the Middle East, I am finding that an increasing number of journals are suspending or restricting online comment. Among the latest to do so was the National Catholic Register, whose editor, Dennis Coday, decided that the malicious, abusive and vile comments received – far from remarks on the substance of an article – were “pure vandalism”. Coday suggested it was everyone’s responsibility to make the internet a civil place by making contributors identifiable, just as they were in the days when editors (and lawyers) decided whose letters may or may not be published.

The Irish columnist Breda O’Brien wrote in February that, while she had to adhere to strict guidelines in her work as a print journalist, it was “bizarre” that “people can comment on my articles with impunity and say anything they like about me or about others. The sheer level of nastiness is difficult to describe”. O’Brien wrote of the “dark” experience of those who – online – wish her to “be badly beaten, or die from painful diseases, or that my children be taken away from me… One person has repeatedly expressed the wish that I be burned to death”. Much of this material is intended to “take down” individuals. “The savagery of online commentary,” O’Brien wrote, “is beginning to bleed into everyday discussions.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-our-addiction-to-the-internet-is-as-harmful-as-any-drug--and-what-passes-for-comment-these-days-is-often-simply-foul-abuse-9433535.html

I agree completely. I think there is absolutely no excuse or justification for the threats of violence and bullying which is now considered 'acceptable' or 'normal ' online.

I am totally dumbfounded at the levels of vicious abuse online which has in some cases resulted in teenagers commiting suicide.

I know people think I am somewhat obsessed with this particular topic but it's only because I am totally staggered and shocked beyond words that such behavior is considered the norm.What good can come of hurling disgusting abuse at people online? Why are threats of violence considered ok just because it's on a computer screen,it isn't!

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

The only way threats of violence and personal abuse can be halted is if anonymity is removed.I understand why no one agrees with this,that being anon is one of the advantages of the internet and people will claim that their freedom is being taken away.

I just think that things may get so bad in this regard that some legislation will have to be introduced at some point.

FluffyBunny wrote:I agree completely. I think there is absolutely no excuse or justification for the threats of violence and bullying which is now considered 'acceptable' or 'normal ' online.

I am totally dumbfounded at the levels of vicious abuse online which has in some cases resulted in teenagers commiting suicide.

I know people think I am somewhat obsessed with this particular topic but it's only because I am totally staggered and shocked beyond words that such behavior is considered the norm.What good can come of hurling disgusting abuse at people online? Why are threats of violence considered ok just because it's on a computer screen,it isn't!

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

The only way threats of violence and personal abuse can be halted is if anonymity is removed.I understand why no one agrees with this,that being anon is one of the advantages of the internet and people will claim that their freedom is being taken away.

I just think that things may get so bad in this regard that some legislation will have to be introduced at some point.

It is disgusting fluffy, as you rightly say people being driven to suicide is not acceptable.

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

A good rule to have.

The amount of sheer rudeness is staggering, people who feel powerless can rant and rave online and never have to face the consequences.
Ultimately though, the control is with you, you can switch it off

Nems wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:I agree completely. I think there is absolutely no excuse or justification for the threats of violence and bullying which is now considered 'acceptable' or 'normal ' online.

I am totally dumbfounded at the levels of vicious abuse online which has in some cases resulted in teenagers commiting suicide.

I know people think I am somewhat obsessed with this particular topic but it's only because I am totally staggered and shocked beyond words that such behavior is considered the norm.What good can come of hurling disgusting abuse at people online? Why are threats of violence considered ok just because it's on a computer screen,it isn't!

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

The only way threats of violence and personal abuse can be halted is if anonymity is removed.I understand why no one agrees with this,that being anon is one of the advantages of the internet and people will claim that their freedom is being taken away.

I just think that things may get so bad in this regard that some legislation will have to be introduced at some point.

It is disgusting fluffy, as you rightly say people being driven to suicide is not acceptable.

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

A good rule to have.

The amount of sheer rudeness is staggering, people who feel powerless can rant and rave online and never have to face the consequences.
Ultimately though, the control is with you, you can switch it off

Agreed the key thing is the control!

Phillagain aka catman, is the perfect example.

Nems wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:I agree completely. I think there is absolutely no excuse or justification for the threats of violence and bullying which is now considered 'acceptable' or 'normal ' online.

I am totally dumbfounded at the levels of vicious abuse online which has in some cases resulted in teenagers commiting suicide.

I know people think I am somewhat obsessed with this particular topic but it's only because I am totally staggered and shocked beyond words that such behavior is considered the norm.What good can come of hurling disgusting abuse at people online? Why are threats of violence considered ok just because it's on a computer screen,it isn't!

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

The only way threats of violence and personal abuse can be halted is if anonymity is removed.I understand why no one agrees with this,that being anon is one of the advantages of the internet and people will claim that their freedom is being taken away.

I just think that things may get so bad in this regard that some legislation will have to be introduced at some point.

It is disgusting fluffy, as you rightly say people being driven to suicide is not acceptable.

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

A good rule to have.


Ultimately though, the control is with you, you can switch it off

That's a bit like saying there is people with guns outside but you can choose to stay indoors if you don't like it.

If you read the link provided above there is some pretty sick racist,homophobic and just plain 'not human' crap going on on the internet that I think is spiralling out of control and had been for some time.The man in the link killed himself due to the abuse he received and he was a grown adult.

Yes you can switch off your computer if you are getting hounded and receiving death threats but isn't that letting the bullies win? Why should all the people who treat others decently on the internet be driven away?

FluffyBunny wrote:

Nems wrote:

It is disgusting fluffy, as you rightly say people being driven to suicide is not acceptable.

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

A good rule to have.


Ultimately though, the control is with you, you can switch it off

That's a bit like saying there is people with guns outside but you can choose to stay indoors if you don't like it.

If you read the link provided above there is some pretty sick racist,homophobic and just plain 'not human' crap going on on the internet that I think is spiralling out of control and had been for some time.The man in the link killed himself due to the abuse he received and he was a grown adult.

Yes you can switch off your computer if you are getting hounded and receiving death threats but isn't that letting the bullies win? Why should  all the people who treat others decently on the internet be driven away?

I dont need to read any link to know awful stuff is said,its been said on here. Point is you cant control what people say only how you react to it. Why would anyone want to stay on a site where they are getting death threats?!
You may find this hard to believe Fluffy but some people thrive on and enjoy the so called 'victim' status.

Nems wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

That's a bit like saying there is people with guns outside but you can choose to stay indoors if you don't like it.

If you read the link provided above there is some pretty sick racist,homophobic and just plain 'not human' crap going on on the internet that I think is spiralling out of control and had been for some time.The man in the link killed himself due to the abuse he received and he was a grown adult.

Yes you can switch off your computer if you are getting hounded and receiving death threats but isn't that letting the bullies win? Why should  all the people who treat others decently on the internet be driven away?

I dont need to read any link to know awful stuff is said,its been said on here. Point is you cant control what people say only how you react to it. Why would anyone want to stay on a site where they are getting death threats?!
You may find this hard to believe Fluffy but some people thrive on  and enjoy the so called 'victim' status.

I don't think the people who killed themselves due to cyber abuse thrived on it...would you   

No offence but I think thats a bit of a stupid remark.

And yes,I believe you CAN control what people say,with legislation.

People have been bullying others for years! Playground, office, in the home, mother-in-laws to theirs sons wives etc.
Let's turn it around for a moment:

Have we become too quick to cry and take offence? Seriously, I'm not sure how words from strangers can even bother people? It's almost like a woman coming up to me in the street saying "You're a dirty stinking whore! You're ugly and you disgust me!"

Am I going to care or am I going to think that woman has a problem and not let it bother me?

Surely it's what we think of ourselves and what our loved ones think of us, that matters?

On the other hand, I can understand if you've built online friendships and then a whole group of your online friends turns on you and attacks you - I have had it happen to me on a site called Missing Madeleine and I chose to delete myself, delete the link and never, ever log on or look at the site again.

Guess what? It worked. If they carried on with their shit I never saw it! And after a few days it had disappeared from my mind.

If you're not a strong-stomached person I don't think sites and debate forums are the best place to be IMO.

eddie wrote:People have been bullying others for years! Playground, office, in the home, mother-in-laws to theirs sons wives etc.
Let's turn it around for a moment:

Have we become too quick to cry and take offence? Seriously, I'm not sure how words from strangers can even bother people? It's almost like a woman coming up to me in the street saying "You're a dirty stinking whore! You're ugly and you disgust me!"

Am I going to care or am I going to think that woman has a problem and not let it bother me?

Surely it's what we think of ourselves and what our loved ones think of us, that matters?

On the other hand, I can understand if you've built online friendships and then a whole group of your online friends turns on you and attacks you - I have had it happen to me on a site called Missing Madeleine and I chose to delete myself, delete the link and never, ever log on or look at the site again.

Guess what? It worked. If they carried on with their shit I never saw it! And after a few days it had disappeared from my mind.

If you're not a strong-stomached person I don't think sites and debate forums are the best place to be IMO.

No.You are excusing unacceptable behaviour.

People should not be allowed to make death threats on people's lives or their children,on any medium.

It is in no way normal and should not be condoned or tolerated for a second.People go to jail for this you know,it IS illegal to make such threats and if these people's identities are uncovered they go to prison so the law of the Land seems to disagree with you Eddie.Thankfully.

I agree death threats are disgusting and should never be seen but i have been wished dead more than once on this very site and no one seemed bothered not even the admin...

More lefty whinging for more CONTROL....lets legislate...then we can stifle ALL debate on "things that dont suit the lefty agenda" "Once we have assumed the right to legislate for greater control on the ONE AND ONLY place where total freedom of thought and opinion is possible, then we can assume the right to SHUT PEOPLE UP."

victorisnotamused wrote:More lefty whinging for more CONTROL....lets legislate...then we can stifle ALL debate on "things that dont suit the lefty agenda" "Once we have assumed the right to legislate for greater control on the ONE AND ONLY place where total freedom of thought and opinion is possible, then we can assume the right to SHUT PEOPLE UP."

So you are happy some people are irresponsible and abuse people sat behind the comfort of their PC's, yet would not say the same to people in real life?

So tell me if a hate campaign was driven against you being a hunter with people leaving vile messages all over twitter and any other accounts you were on, making false claims against you to the point people abuse you in the street, this would be okay for you receiving hate mail?

what makes you think it doesnt happen??

what makes you think I then dont use technological methods to destroy those abusers....

play in the techy world...get bitten in the techy world...

so what would you have...

ONCE a govt can justify some "minor control" It can and will then implement onerous and chilling effect control over
debate...

FluffyBunny wrote:

Nems wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:I agree completely. I think there is absolutely no excuse or justification for the threats of violence and bullying which is now considered 'acceptable' or 'normal ' online.

I am totally dumbfounded at the levels of vicious abuse online which has in some cases resulted in teenagers commiting suicide.

I know people think I am somewhat obsessed with this particular topic but it's only because I am totally staggered and shocked beyond words that such behavior is considered the norm.What good can come of hurling disgusting abuse at people online? Why are threats of violence considered ok just because it's on a computer screen,it isn't!

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

The only way threats of violence and personal abuse can be halted is if anonymity is removed.I understand why no one agrees with this,that being anon is one of the advantages of the internet and people will claim that their freedom is being taken away.

I just think that things may get so bad in this regard that some legislation will have to be introduced at some point.

It is disgusting fluffy, as you rightly say people being driven to suicide is not acceptable.

If you wouldn't say it in real life,don't say it online,is the rule I try to live by.

A good rule to have.


Ultimately though, the control is with you, you can switch it off

That's a bit like saying there is people with guns outside but you can choose to stay indoors if you don't like it.

If you read the link provided above there is some pretty sick racist,homophobic and just plain 'not human' crap going on on the internet that I think is spiralling out of control and had been for some time.The man in the link killed himself due to the abuse he received and he was a grown adult.

Yes you can switch off your computer if you are getting hounded and receiving death threats but isn't that letting the bullies win? Why should  all the people who treat others decently on the internet be driven away?

No there is less than there used to be. there is now just more 'weak/dumb' people on the internet that cant cope with it.
Plus more people in general. Trolling used to be an art form and everyone involved was well aware of it (a bit like rappers dissing each other) but too many dumb people have come online and just interpreted it as 'Just being mean', so they are just being mean. there used to be more sport to it, like I have no problem trolling Shady since he is a troll too and is obviously strong enough to handle it.

victorisnotamused wrote:what makes you think it doesnt happen??

what makes you think I then dont use technological methods to destroy those abusers....

play in the techy world...get bitten in the techy world...

so what would you have...

ONCE a govt can justify some "minor control" It can and will then implement onerous and chilling effect control over  
debate...

The reality is you have not faced such a situation, where say for arguments sake you were wrongly labelled a paedo, now that would be poor and imagined you would be shunned by society and even worse no doubt people within your community.

Now would that be right, should that person have the right to wrongly cast you as such, without even calling you a paedo, but insinuating you are?

I would back any view to take action against this person using the web to promote such a poor lie against you, as seen it could have such an affect you could be attacked in the street

victorisnotamused wrote:what makes you think it doesnt happen??

what makes you think I then dont use technological methods to destroy those abusers....

play in the techy world...get bitten in the techy world...

so what would you have...

ONCE a govt can justify some "minor control" It can and will then implement onerous and chilling effect control over  
debate...

the gov't already have via proxy through things like facebook and google    you can still minimise their control/monitoring of you but you cant stop it completely (well not with out military grade equipment and infrastructure and even then    )