WHY DOES ISLAM ISSUE THE DEATH SENTENCE FOR LEAVING ISLAM ?

First topic message reminder :

If people have to be threatened with execution if they leave this religion does that show a fear on the part of islam that they feel they must terrorize their own believers ?

good point HF , is islam a race ?

If like veya suggests you are racist because of your dislike of islam then he is a racist also as he dislikes christians

Vicar of Dibley wrote:good point HF , is islam a race ?

If like veya suggests you are racist because of your dislike of islam then he is a racist also as he dislikes christians

I must add.

Our new neighbour upstairs, she is a muslim, and she knows that we are a gay couple, and she is really nice.

I must admit that she isn't devout or anything, but her family are and, we have met them and they wear Muslim dress, again they are nice and polite towards us and visa versa.

morning phil, as it should be it isn't about the person it is about what the islamic or christian faith do that is being questioned .

People are people and most are civilized and get along , I have gay friends i love them to bits , my cousin is a lesbian i love her to bits , she just had a baby girl last year . She was telling about when she told her mum she was pregnant as her mum said 'i thought you were gay so how ?' she just said 'don't ask' lol .
They are a lovely family the little girl is gorgeous x

Vicar of Dibley wrote:morning phil, as it should be it isn't about the person it is about what the islamic or christian faith do that is being questioned .

People are people and most are civilized and get along , I have gay friends i love them to bits , my cousin is a lesbian i love her to bits , she just had a baby girl last year . She was telling about when she told her mum she was pregnant as her mum said 'i thought you were gay so how ?' she just said 'don't ask' lol .
They are a lovely family the little girl is gorgeous x

That's true i would suppose.

She is definitely the best neighbour that we have ever had, she is polite, considerate....and Doug loves talking to her in the hallway...We've had problems with our neighbour in the past, she is like a breath of fresh air tbf!

That's lovely Phil good neighbours mean a lot especially when you have experienced bad ones .

I remember my neighbour of 15 years before we moved she had four Alsatian dogs and they would dig through under the fence and climb over and mess in my garden , and she was so dirty her house was full of dog mess and wee and the smell was so potent it started to come through the walls . It was a terraced house we lived in and we could smell it . The council inspected their property and they had to clean it up for health reasons .

I got on with the neighbour she was a nice person but i couldn't let her dogs mess my garden at that time i had a 2 and 5 year old who needed to play in the garden .

SEXY MAMA wrote:For example, the Qur’an says: “Let him who wishes to believe, do so; and let him who wishes to disbelieve, do so.” (Al-Kahf: 29)

The Qur’an has referred to the issue of apostasy at more than one place (for example see Al-Baqarah 2: 217, Al-Baqarah 2: 108, A?l Imra?n 3: 90, Al-Nisa? 4: 137 and Al-Nahl 16: 106). But at none of these places does the Qur’an mention the punishment of death for such people who change their religion. The Qur’an does mention that such people shall face a terrible punishment in the hereafter but no worldly punishment is mentioned at any of these instances in the Qur’an. This situation obviously raises a question mark in the mind of the reader that if Allah had wanted to give the punishment of an apostate a permanent position in the Shari`ah, the punishment should have been mentioned, at least at one of the above mentioned places.

Furthermore, the Qur’an has strictly disallowed the imposition of the death penalty except in two specific cases. One of them is where the person is guilty of murdering another person and the other is where a person is guilty of creating unrest in the country (fasa’d fil-ardh) like being involved in activities that create unrest in a society, for example activities like terrorism etc. The Qur’an says:  Whoever kills a person without his being guilty of murder or of creating unrest in the land, is as though he kills the whole of mankind. (Al-Ma?idah, 5: 32)

Islam, like most religions, will always be subject to the twists and turns of human manipulations. However, in all your posts, I don't see any outrage at this woman's plight. If more muslims reared up in disgust and horror at this matter and others pertaining to extremist views, it may help stamp it down, if not out.

Guest wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:good point HF , is islam a race ?

If like veya suggests you are racist because of your dislike of islam then he is a racist also as he dislikes christians

I must add.

Our new neighbour upstairs, she is a muslim, and she knows that we are a gay couple, and she is really nice.

I must admit that she isn't devout or anything, but her family are and, we have met them and they wear Muslim dress, again they are nice and polite towards us and visa versa.

Do you live in the UK? Do you suppose this tolerance would be shown to you in say...Saudi?

SEXY MAMA wrote:Why is this in UK NEWS????
What's with the spamming of Islam?

Tut tut tut.

Anyway for the uneducated on here.
Apostasy in Islam is permissible.

Now let's see what the reality is


Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

JUBA, South Sudan (Morning Star News) – A pregnant woman in Khartoum, Sudan raised as a Christian faces the death penalty for “leaving Islam” because her father was Muslim, sources said.
Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, 27, and her Christian husband also have a toddler son. As marriage to a Christian man is prohibited for a Muslim woman in Sudan, Ibrahim also could be given 100 lashes for “adultery,” the sources said. If convicted of “apostasy” and “adultery,” the whipping and execution would be administered soon after giving birth to her second child, due next month, according to a rights worker for Justice Center Sudan in Khartoum.
“We are fighting for Meriam’s life, freedom, and fair treatment – according to the law, if she had been a Muslim she should be killed soon after she gives birth to her child,” said the rights worker, whose identity was withheld for security reasons.
Married to a South Sudanese Christian who obtained U.S. citizenship several years ago, Ibrahim’s nightmare has included denial of bail, insufficient medical care for both her and her unborn child, beatings in prison and a U.S. Embassy that has offered little help, sources said.
“Meriam needs treatment every month to keep the unborn baby still in the mother’s womb, but no medical help has been allowed,” her husband, Daniel Wani, reported to Justice Center Sudan. “They are denying my wife her rights to fair treatment and my rights to visit and see my son.”
Their 20-month-old son, Martin Wani, is staying in prison with his mother, as Sudanese authorities have prohibited the boy’s father from caring for him because he is a Christian. Ibrahim has been incarcerated since February.
Justice Center Sudan is fighting the court’s charges of apostasy and adultery based constitutional rights to equality and freedom of religion. The center says constitutional rights should outweigh sharia (Islamic law). The Sudanese constitution stipulates Islamic law as a source of legislation, however, and since the secession of South Sudan in July 2011, Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has vowed to make Sudan a more strictly Islamic country.
Rights workers are trying to pressure the government to give Ibrahim, a medical doctor who graduated from Khartoum University, fair treatment in prison and allow the baby to be with his father.
Accusing Wani of converting a Muslim woman to another religion and marrying her – although Sudanese law does not explicitly ban proselytism – authorities have taken Wani’s passport and forbidden him to travel.
Sudan’s notorious Public Order Court in El Haj Yousif in Khartoum North charged Ibrahim with apostasy and adultery on March 4, sources told Morning Star News. No one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the Sudan Criminal Code of 1991 made it punishable by the death penalty.
The couple also faces cancellation of their marriage, rights workers said.
“According to Islamic laws, if a Muslim woman gets married to a non-Muslim man, then their marriage is not acknowledged legally,” one rights worker said. “She is then committing adultery, and her children are not recognized by law as children of legal marriage. That is why she is facing the charges.”
Khartoum state’s “public order” laws are based largely on strict Islamic law and give Public Order Police and judges wide latitude in arresting and sentencing suspects.
Ibrahim was born in a small town in western Sudan to an Ethiopian Orthodox mother and a Muslim Sudanese father. Her father disappeared from her life when she was 6 years old, and her Ethiopian Orthodox mother raised her in the Christian faith, sources said.
When life became hard for her and her mother, they decided to move to Khartoum in search of better school opportunities for Ibrahim and employment for her mother, sources said. Finding refuge in a neighborhood in Khartoum, they connected with a small church, and their lives moved on, according to Justice Center Sudan.
Ibrahim progressed in school and graduated from the prestigious School of Medicine at Khartoum University. Her mother died in 2011, leaving Ibrahim with a small but supportive community. She and Wani met at her church when he was visiting Khartoum from the United States; they soon fell in love and were married in a small church ceremony in Khartoum in 2012, Wani said.
Last year someone who said he was a relative of Ibrahim opened a case against them in Halat Kuku Court of Khartoum North for alleged “adultery” under article 146 of the Sudan Criminal Code because of her marriage to a Christian, rights workers said. Wani was accused of proselytizing a Muslim, and eventually authorities added the apostasy charge to Ibrahim.
Three witnesses from western Sudan came to Khartoum in March of this year to testify of Ibrahim’s lifelong Christian faith, they said.
“I am a Christian,” Ibrahim told the court in Khartoum on March 4, having provided her marriage certificate showing that she was a Christian and that the wedding ceremony was conducted in a Christian chapel in Khartoum in 2012.
Though no one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the 1991 law took effect, courts have forced people accused of leaving Islam to renounce their faiths.
While in jail Ibrahim has been abused physically and emotionally, according to her husband. Muslim scholars have been visiting her, telling her to “turn back” to the religion of her father, but she has refused, he said.
One of the prison guards, Kawther Hassen, has mistreated Ibrahim and not allowed visitations or medical help. Her husband told Morning Star News that that a Muslim woman in the jail has incited other Muslims to make life difficult for Ibrahim.
“She is psychologically tired,” Wani said. “My wife was never a Muslim. As an American citizen, I ask the people and government of the USA to help me.”
The couple’s toddler boy is a U.S. citizen by virtue of his father’s U.S. citizenship, but Wani said U.S. Embassy officials in Khartoum have told him he must prove he is the father with a DNA test before they would try to help.
“I will have to take a DNA sample in Khartoum, then send it to the USA for testing,” Wani said. “I have provided wedding documents and the baby’s birth certificate, and doors were closed on his face.”
Wani told Morning Star News that when he called the U.S. Embassy on April 9, a representative in Khartoum told him they did not care about the case.
“I have tried to apply for papers to travel to the USA with my wife and child, but the American Embassy in Sudan did not help me,” Wani said. “My son is an American citizen living in a difficult situation in prison.”
U.S. Embassy personnel declined to speak about the matter to Morning Star News.
At a hearing for Ibrahim on April 18, the court requested more witnesses to testify that she never practiced Islam, according to attorneys.

http://morningstarnews.org/2014/04/pregnant-woman-in-sudan-could-be-executed-for-apostasy-whipped-for-adultery/

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Why is this in UK NEWS????
What's with the spamming of Islam?

Tut tut tut.

Anyway for the uneducated on here.
Apostasy in Islam is permissible.

Now let's see what the reality is


Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."  (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

JUBA, South Sudan (Morning Star News) – A pregnant woman in Khartoum, Sudan raised as a Christian faces the death penalty for “leaving Islam” because her father was Muslim, sources said.
Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, 27, and her Christian husband also have a toddler son. As marriage to a Christian man is prohibited for a Muslim woman in Sudan, Ibrahim also could be given 100 lashes for “adultery,” the sources said. If convicted of “apostasy” and “adultery,” the whipping and execution would be administered soon after giving birth to her second child, due next month, according to a rights worker for Justice Center Sudan in Khartoum.
“We are fighting for Meriam’s life, freedom, and fair treatment – according to the law, if she had been a Muslim she should be killed soon after she gives birth to her child,” said the rights worker, whose identity was withheld for security reasons.
Married to a South Sudanese Christian who obtained U.S. citizenship several years ago, Ibrahim’s nightmare has included denial of bail, insufficient medical care for both her and her unborn child, beatings in prison and a U.S. Embassy that has offered little help, sources said.
“Meriam needs treatment every month to keep the unborn baby still in the mother’s womb, but no medical help has been allowed,” her husband, Daniel Wani, reported to Justice Center Sudan. “They are denying my wife her rights to fair treatment and my rights to visit and see my son.”
Their 20-month-old son, Martin Wani, is staying in prison with his mother, as Sudanese authorities have prohibited the boy’s father from caring for him because he is a Christian. Ibrahim has been incarcerated since February.
Justice Center Sudan is fighting the court’s charges of apostasy and adultery based constitutional rights to equality and freedom of religion. The center says constitutional rights should outweigh sharia (Islamic law). The Sudanese constitution stipulates Islamic law as a source of legislation, however, and since the secession of South Sudan in July 2011, Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has vowed to make Sudan a more strictly Islamic country.
Rights workers are trying to pressure the government to give Ibrahim, a medical doctor who graduated from Khartoum University, fair treatment in prison and allow the baby to be with his father.
Accusing Wani of converting a Muslim woman to another religion and marrying her – although Sudanese law does not explicitly ban proselytism – authorities have taken Wani’s passport and forbidden him to travel.
Sudan’s notorious Public Order Court in El Haj Yousif in Khartoum North charged Ibrahim with apostasy and adultery on March 4, sources told Morning Star News. No one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the Sudan Criminal Code of 1991 made it punishable by the death penalty.
The couple also faces cancellation of their marriage, rights workers said.
“According  to Islamic laws, if a Muslim woman gets married to a non-Muslim man, then their marriage is not acknowledged legally,” one rights worker said. “She is then committing adultery, and her children are not recognized by law as children of legal marriage. That is why she is facing the charges.”
Khartoum state’s “public order” laws are based largely on strict Islamic law and give Public Order Police and judges wide latitude in arresting and sentencing suspects.
Ibrahim was born in a small town in western Sudan to an Ethiopian Orthodox mother and a Muslim Sudanese father. Her father disappeared from her life when she was 6 years old, and her Ethiopian Orthodox mother raised her in the Christian faith, sources said.
When life became hard for her and her mother, they decided to move to Khartoum in search of better school opportunities for Ibrahim and employment for her mother, sources said. Finding refuge in a neighborhood in Khartoum, they connected with a small church, and their lives moved on, according to Justice Center Sudan.
Ibrahim progressed in school and graduated from the prestigious School of Medicine at Khartoum University. Her mother died in 2011, leaving Ibrahim with a small but supportive community. She and Wani met at her church when he was visiting Khartoum from the United States; they soon fell in love and were married in a small church ceremony in Khartoum in 2012, Wani said.
Last year someone who said he was a relative of Ibrahim opened a case against them in Halat Kuku Court of Khartoum North for alleged “adultery” under article 146 of the Sudan Criminal Code because of her marriage to a Christian, rights workers said. Wani was accused of proselytizing a Muslim, and eventually authorities added the apostasy charge to Ibrahim.
Three witnesses from western Sudan came to Khartoum in March of this year to testify of Ibrahim’s lifelong Christian faith, they said.
“I am a Christian,” Ibrahim told the court in Khartoum on March 4, having provided her marriage certificate showing that she was a Christian and that the wedding ceremony was conducted in a Christian chapel in Khartoum in 2012.
Though no one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the 1991 law took effect, courts have forced people accused of leaving Islam to renounce their faiths.
While in jail Ibrahim  has been abused physically and emotionally, according to her husband. Muslim scholars have been visiting her, telling her to “turn back” to the religion of her father, but she has refused, he said.
One of the prison guards, Kawther Hassen, has mistreated Ibrahim and not allowed visitations or medical help. Her husband told Morning Star News that that a Muslim woman in the jail has incited other Muslims to make life difficult for Ibrahim.
“She is psychologically tired,” Wani said. “My wife was never a Muslim. As an American citizen, I ask the people and government of the USA to help me.”
The couple’s toddler boy is a U.S. citizen by virtue of his father’s U.S. citizenship, but Wani said U.S. Embassy officials in Khartoum have told him he must prove he is the father with a DNA test before they would try to help.
“I will have to take a DNA sample in Khartoum, then send it to the USA for testing,” Wani said. “I have provided wedding documents and the baby’s birth certificate, and doors were closed on his face.”
Wani told Morning Star News that when he called the U.S. Embassy on April 9, a representative in Khartoum told him they did not care about the case.
“I have tried to apply for papers to travel to the USA with my wife and child, but the American Embassy in Sudan did not help me,” Wani said. “My son is an American citizen living in a difficult situation in prison.”
U.S. Embassy personnel declined to speak about the matter to Morning Star News.
At a hearing for Ibrahim on April 18, the court requested more witnesses to testify that she never practiced Islam, according to attorneys.

http://morningstarnews.org/2014/04/pregnant-woman-in-sudan-could-be-executed-for-apostasy-whipped-for-adultery/

what a very insecure man muhammed was when he wrote the koran   , what a very backward and barbaric religion islam is and will always be, how anyone can defend this barbaric evil cult is very baffling . They either defend it because they are just being plain stupid or they don't give a toss about innocent people caught up in this disgusting cult .

Ridda or Irtidãd: Literally means "turning back". The act of apostasy -- leaving Islam for another religion or for a secular lifestyle.

Murtadd: Literally means "one who turns the back." An apostate.

Murtad Fitri: Literally means apostate - natural. A person born of a Muslim parent who later rejects Islam.

Murtad Milli: Literally means apostate - from the community. A person who converted to Islam and later rejected the religion.

Due lack of education and critical thinking several myths have taken root in the Muslim world over the ages, and there have not been any efforts in the past to clear these doubts. On the contrary, there has been a sort of effort to strengthen these myths and misconceptions. These misinterpretations of Islamic teachings have taken their toll on the Muslim world and have strengthened a misplaced perception that Islam is a symbol of obscurantism, a religion of intolerance and answers everything with the sword.

And there is no bigger misconception-strengthened with misunderstanding of Islamic beliefs over the years-other than the belief that Islam doesn't tolerate apostasy. The Christian missionaries and the Western world are cashing in on it. Ulama have tried to strengthen their point of view and several leading Muslim reformists have failed to tackle the issue. This misconception has also presented Islam as a medieval and killer religion. Islam bashers have time and again tried to carry the point by pointing out that Islam orders the killing of a person if he or she reverts to another religion from Islam.

No body is forthcoming to challenge this widely held belief as well as put forth a convincing argument about the misinterpretation of Qur'anic teachings by Ulama.

The Qur’an is completely silent on any worldly punishment for apostasy and the sole Tradition that forms the basis of rulings is open to many interpretations.

Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: ‘Whosoever changes his religion, Kill Him (man baddala Dinahu faqtuluhu)’”. It is this last quote from the Prophet that forms the basis of the said ruling.

While jurists are agreed on the authenticity of this tradition, they differ very widely on the appropriate interpretation and thus, the law concerning apostasy. Understanding the different viewpoints, and arriving at the truth is crucial to our discussion of this subject.



This tradition does not refer to Muslims who leave the religion of Islam for other religions. Finally, there is the crucial dispute over the nature of the punishment and the crime. Al-Nakha’ee and, according to Sha’rani, al-Thawri, hold that the apostate is a grave sinner who should however be continuously called back to the fold for the rest of his life, and not killed. By implication, they do not consider the offence a hadd (fixed penalty) offence with a fixed punishment that must be carried out. This view is similar to the view that apostasy is a sin that carries no fixed punishment, and any penalty for it is discretionary (ta’zeer). This is a view held by the Hanbali scholar, Ibn Taimiya and he attributes it as well to the Maliki Imam al-Baji. Among Hanafites, the jurist Shamsuddeen al-Sarakhshi holds the same view. He says in al Mabsut that the fixed penalties or hudud are generally not suspended because of repentance, especially when they are reported and become known to the Imam. He then adds in the case of apostasy “renunciation of the faith and conversion to disbelief is admittedly the greatest of offences, yet it is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the day of Judgement. (“fa’l jaza’ ‘alayha mu’akhkhar ila dar al-jaza”).



If repentance is accepted, then apostasy is not a hadd offence with a fixed punishment. Secondly, once scholars accept that a Muslim apostate has the right to be given the opportunity to repent, they lose the right to set a time limit for his repentance.



Allah (SWT) says in the Glorious Qur’an (39: 53-54: Say: “ O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God’s mercy. Behold God forgives all sins, for verily He is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace! Hence, turn toward your sustainer and surrender yourselves unto him before the suffering (of death and resurrection) comes upon you for then you will not be succored.”



Any scholar who says the death sentence applies to leaving the faith, then the convict is to be given a life-time to repent, and this is the view of Sufyan al-Thawri, Ibrahim al-Nakha’ee, Shamsuddeen al-Sarakhshi, Imam al-Baji and, by strong implication, Ahmad Ibn Taimiya. One must conclude that the death sentence is not for “simple apostasy” (mujarrad al-ridda), but for apostasy accompanied by treason and sedition, or by the abuse and slander (sabb) of the Noble Prophet.

Freedom to convert to or from Islam

"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance." Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The Glorious Qur'an says, "Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." Al Baqarah, 2:256.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path." Surah An-Nisa', 4:137.

For example, the Qur'an says: "Let him who wishes to believe, do so; and let him who wishes to disbelieve, do so." (Al-Kahf: 29)

In another verse, Allah Almighty says: "Yours is only the duty to convey the message; you are not a guardian over them." (Al-Ghashiyah: 21- 22)

The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, shown above, seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would not be possible if the person were executed after the first apostasy.
From the above verses it can be argued that religious freedom and the absence of compulsion in religion requires that individuals be allowed adopt a religion or to convert to another religion without legal penalty.

Hence the death penalty is not an appropriate response to apostasy.
The former Chief Justice of Pakistan, SA Rahman, has written that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an.

Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy use as their foundation the above cited hadith, in which the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: "Kill whoever changes his religion." But this is a weak foundation because this hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient confirmation to impose the death penalty. The Shari`ah has not fixed any punishment for apostasy.

The hadith is so generally worded that it would require the death penalty for a Christian or Jew who converted to Islam. This is obviously not the prophet's intent. The hadith is in need of further specification, which has not been documented. Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.).
There is no historical record, which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.
The issue of killing a murtad or the apostate is not a simple one. Scholars have debated it from various angles and it is not simply an issue of killing someone for choosing one religion or another.

The question of apostasy has been debated among scholars based on their interpretations of some hadiths since the Qur'an does not specify any worldly punishment for it. For example, there was a case at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) where a man came to him in three consecutive days and told him that he wanted to apostate. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never took any action against him, and when the man finally left Madina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never sent anyone to arrest him, let alone kill him.

This is why some scholars distinguished between individual apostasy and apostasy which is accompanied by high treason. So, it cannot be confused with the freedom of conscience for every individual, which has been guaranteed in the Qur'an through hundreds of verses.

For example, one version of a hadith narrated by `A'isha (RA) concerning apostasy relates to one who left his religion and fought against Muslims.

QUR'ANIC VIEWS

The Qur’an has referred to the issue of apostasy at more than one place (for example see Al-Baqarah 2: 217, Al-Baqarah 2: 108, A’l Imra’n 3: 90, Al-Nisa’ 4: 137 and Al-Nahl 16: 106). But at none of these places does the Qur’an mention the punishment of death for such people who change their religion. The Qur’an does mention that such people shall face a terrible punishment in the hereafter but no worldly punishment is mentioned at any of these instances in the Qur’an. This situation obviously raises a question mark in the mind of the reader that if Allah had wanted to give the punishment of an apostate a permanent position in the Shari`ah, the punishment should have been mentioned, at least at one of the above mentioned places. If the Qur’an had kept completely silent about the apostate, the matter would have been different. But the strange thing is that the Qur’an mentions apostasy, and still does not mention the punishment (if any) it wants the apostate to be subjected to.

Furthermore, the Qur’an has strictly disallowed the imposition of the death penalty except in two specific cases. One of them is where the person is guilty of murdering another person and the other is where a person is guilty of creating unrest in the country (fasa’d fil-ardh) like being involved in activities that create unrest in a society, for example activities like terrorism etc. The Qur’an says:

Whoever kills a person without his being guilty of murder or of creating unrest in the land, is as though he kills the whole of mankind. (Al-Ma’idah, 5: 32)

Obviously, apostasy can neither be termed as "murder" nor "creating unrest in the land".

Thus, in view of the above facts, we are left with one option only. We can only say that either the saying has been wrongly ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), as it is clearly contradictory to the Qur’an and the Prophet could not have said anything contradictory to the Qur’an, or that the saying ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) relates not to all apostates but to a particular and specific people.

Shaykh Subhani

Shaykh Inayatullah Subhani (author of the Book Apostasy doesn't carry death penalty in Islam) says that neither Islam forces any person to embrace neither Islam nor it forces him to remain within its fold. He writes, "Apostasy has been mentioned several times in Qur'an. It also describes the bad treatment that will be meted out for committing apostasy, but it never talks of punishment for the crime in this world." The learned scholar mentions three Ayaat (verses) from Qur'an on apostasy (Al-Baqara 217, Muhammad 25-27 and Al-Maida 54) and then says that none of these Ayaat prescribes any punishment for that though these Ayaat pass strictures on the people who commit it. There are several other Ayaat on the same issue and none of them prescribes either death penalty or any other punishment for apostasy in this world. He then adds that had there been some punishment in Islam for apostasy there was no reason as to why the issue was mentioned repeatedly in Qur'an but no punishment was prescribed.

Misinterpretation of the hadith, Man baddala Dinahu faqtuluh (kill him who changes his religion) has caused the problem. This order has been made to look general and permanent, though it was said in a particular circumstance for a particular group. Shaykh Subhani writes that this order was made to counter a scheme prepared by Jews of Madinah. They had planned that some of them embrace Islam for some time and then return to their old religion. Then some other people do the same. It was aimed to create restlessness among Muslims against their own leadership so that the strong Muslim unity should start crumbling. It was made clear in Qur'an in (Aal Imran, 3: 72-73).

To counter this planning the Prophet (SAW) ordered his companions to act in such a manner. Despite this order lengthy investigations were made to ascertain that the case was true and the person concerned was given adequate time to explain before the punishment was carried out.

Shaykh Subhani says lack of clear grasp of Qur'an misguided even leading Ulama. Otherwise it was not difficult to understand the hadith. Qur'anic teachings on the issue were not kept in mind.

He emphasizes that people who were awarded death penalty for reverting to other religions from Islam during the time of the Prophet (SAW) or during the reign of his caliphs were not given the punishment for the crime of apostasy but for the fact that they were at war with Muslims and Islamic government.

Shaykh Subhani regrets that punishment that was prescribed for certain people under special circumstances was made to look like a general order. He says that it was the order for people who posed threat to Islamic state and became at war with Islam and not for any person who reverts to other religion.

A number of Islamic scholars from past centuries, Ibrahim al-Naka'I, Sufyan al-Thawri, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi, Abul Walid al-Baji and Ibn Taymiyyah, have all held that apostasy is a serious sin, but not one that requires the death penalty. In modern times, Mahmud Shaltut, Sheikh of al-Azhar, and Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi have concurred.

In conclusion, we must never confuse the issue of killing a murtad with the freedom of conscience guaranteed in the Glorious Qur'an. For a detailed discussion, one should read (1) the Dr. Yusuf Al-Qaradawi's book on this issue: Jareemat ar-riddah wal murtadd (The Crime of Apostasy and Apostate) - published by Ar-Risalah foundation.

(2) Apostasy doesn't carry death penalty in Islam (Book: Tabdili-e-Mazhab aur Islam) by Maulana Inayatullah Asad Subhani)-published by Idara Ihya-e-Deen, Bilariya Ganj, Azamgarh (UP, India) Pages: 108, Price Rs 30

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_251_300/is_killing_an_apostate_in_the_is.htm

lol defending the evil cult is disgusting and makes you just as evil as it .

The poor woman has a right to freedom and to medical treatment , she shouldn't even be in prison why are you defending islam ???

If your pregnant daughter was locked away in a prison being beaten and sentenced to 100 lashes and hanging would you still be defending the religion of evil ?????

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol defending the evil cult is disgusting and makes you just as evil as it .

The poor woman has a right to freedom and to medical treatment , she shouldn't even be in prison why are you defending islam ???

If your pregnant daughter was locked away in a prison being beaten and sentenced to 100 lashes and hanging would you still be defending the religion of evil ?????

Defending?

Morning Dibs, I am showing yet again the problem within religions, many different interpretations and I would have thought that here we have examples of scholars calling for end to such punishments, so why are you not defending these scholars to get their view across?

veya_victaous wrote:

The Qur'an

24:2

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not mercy move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:


Now let's see what the reality is


Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."  (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

JUBA, South Sudan (Morning Star News) – A pregnant woman in Khartoum, Sudan raised as a Christian faces the death penalty for “leaving Islam” because her father was Muslim, sources said.
Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, 27, and her Christian husband also have a toddler son. As marriage to a Christian man is prohibited for a Muslim woman in Sudan, Ibrahim also could be given 100 lashes for “adultery,” the sources said. If convicted of “apostasy” and “adultery,” the whipping and execution would be administered soon after giving birth to her second child, due next month, according to a rights worker for Justice Center Sudan in Khartoum.
“We are fighting for Meriam’s life, freedom, and fair treatment – according to the law, if she had been a Muslim she should be killed soon after she gives birth to her child,” said the rights worker, whose identity was withheld for security reasons.
Married to a South Sudanese Christian who obtained U.S. citizenship several years ago, Ibrahim’s nightmare has included denial of bail, insufficient medical care for both her and her unborn child, beatings in prison and a U.S. Embassy that has offered little help, sources said.
“Meriam needs treatment every month to keep the unborn baby still in the mother’s womb, but no medical help has been allowed,” her husband, Daniel Wani, reported to Justice Center Sudan. “They are denying my wife her rights to fair treatment and my rights to visit and see my son.”
Their 20-month-old son, Martin Wani, is staying in prison with his mother, as Sudanese authorities have prohibited the boy’s father from caring for him because he is a Christian. Ibrahim has been incarcerated since February.
Justice Center Sudan is fighting the court’s charges of apostasy and adultery based constitutional rights to equality and freedom of religion. The center says constitutional rights should outweigh sharia (Islamic law). The Sudanese constitution stipulates Islamic law as a source of legislation, however, and since the secession of South Sudan in July 2011, Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has vowed to make Sudan a more strictly Islamic country.
Rights workers are trying to pressure the government to give Ibrahim, a medical doctor who graduated from Khartoum University, fair treatment in prison and allow the baby to be with his father.
Accusing Wani of converting a Muslim woman to another religion and marrying her – although Sudanese law does not explicitly ban proselytism – authorities have taken Wani’s passport and forbidden him to travel.
Sudan’s notorious Public Order Court in El Haj Yousif in Khartoum North charged Ibrahim with apostasy and adultery on March 4, sources told Morning Star News. No one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the Sudan Criminal Code of 1991 made it punishable by the death penalty.
The couple also faces cancellation of their marriage, rights workers said.
“According  to Islamic laws, if a Muslim woman gets married to a non-Muslim man, then their marriage is not acknowledged legally,” one rights worker said. “She is then committing adultery, and her children are not recognized by law as children of legal marriage. That is why she is facing the charges.”
Khartoum state’s “public order” laws are based largely on strict Islamic law and give Public Order Police and judges wide latitude in arresting and sentencing suspects.
Ibrahim was born in a small town in western Sudan to an Ethiopian Orthodox mother and a Muslim Sudanese father. Her father disappeared from her life when she was 6 years old, and her Ethiopian Orthodox mother raised her in the Christian faith, sources said.
When life became hard for her and her mother, they decided to move to Khartoum in search of better school opportunities for Ibrahim and employment for her mother, sources said. Finding refuge in a neighborhood in Khartoum, they connected with a small church, and their lives moved on, according to Justice Center Sudan.
Ibrahim progressed in school and graduated from the prestigious School of Medicine at Khartoum University. Her mother died in 2011, leaving Ibrahim with a small but supportive community. She and Wani met at her church when he was visiting Khartoum from the United States; they soon fell in love and were married in a small church ceremony in Khartoum in 2012, Wani said.
Last year someone who said he was a relative of Ibrahim opened a case against them in Halat Kuku Court of Khartoum North for alleged “adultery” under article 146 of the Sudan Criminal Code because of her marriage to a Christian, rights workers said. Wani was accused of proselytizing a Muslim, and eventually authorities added the apostasy charge to Ibrahim.
Three witnesses from western Sudan came to Khartoum in March of this year to testify of Ibrahim’s lifelong Christian faith, they said.
“I am a Christian,” Ibrahim told the court in Khartoum on March 4, having provided her marriage certificate showing that she was a Christian and that the wedding ceremony was conducted in a Christian chapel in Khartoum in 2012.
Though no one has been executed for apostasy in Sudan since the 1991 law took effect, courts have forced people accused of leaving Islam to renounce their faiths.
While in jail Ibrahim  has been abused physically and emotionally, according to her husband. Muslim scholars have been visiting her, telling her to “turn back” to the religion of her father, but she has refused, he said.
One of the prison guards, Kawther Hassen, has mistreated Ibrahim and not allowed visitations or medical help. Her husband told Morning Star News that that a Muslim woman in the jail has incited other Muslims to make life difficult for Ibrahim.
“She is psychologically tired,” Wani said. “My wife was never a Muslim. As an American citizen, I ask the people and government of the USA to help me.”
The couple’s toddler boy is a U.S. citizen by virtue of his father’s U.S. citizenship, but Wani said U.S. Embassy officials in Khartoum have told him he must prove he is the father with a DNA test before they would try to help.
“I will have to take a DNA sample in Khartoum, then send it to the USA for testing,” Wani said. “I have provided wedding documents and the baby’s birth certificate, and doors were closed on his face.”
Wani told Morning Star News that when he called the U.S. Embassy on April 9, a representative in Khartoum told him they did not care about the case.
“I have tried to apply for papers to travel to the USA with my wife and child, but the American Embassy in Sudan did not help me,” Wani said. “My son is an American citizen living in a difficult situation in prison.”
U.S. Embassy personnel declined to speak about the matter to Morning Star News.
At a hearing for Ibrahim on April 18, the court requested more witnesses to testify that she never practiced Islam, according to attorneys.

http://morningstarnews.org/2014/04/pregnant-woman-in-sudan-could-be-executed-for-apostasy-whipped-for-adultery/

what a very insecure man muhammed was when he wrote the koran   , what a very backward and barbaric religion islam is and will always be, how anyone can defend this barbaric evil cult is very baffling . They either defend it because they are just being plain stupid or they don't give a toss about innocent people caught up in this disgusting cult .

Muhammad was a very sick man and suffered from what can only be described as epilepsy

there is of course the possibility and high probability of demonic possession, Muhammad was a mass murdering psychopath who reveled in slaughter and bloodshed

PS - Muhammad didn't write the qur'an, it was written after his death by someone else

smelly_bandit wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

The Qur'an

24:2

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not mercy move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Interesting, so why do you not condemn the bible and Torah for an even worse punishment for adultery?

Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman:

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

didge none of those scriptures have anything to do with apostasy.

When is the last time you heard of any Christian or Jew actually being killed or the courts agreeing they should be sentenced to death for adultery ?

I think you all need to forget holy books - concentrate on what goes on in the real world.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:didge none of those scriptures have anything to do with apostasy.

When is the last time you heard of any Christian or Jew actually being killed or the courts agreeing they should be sentenced to death for adultery ?

That is because Dibs in the West, religion does not hold sway in power, when it has, the same happened.
There is a big Evangelical movement in America that calls for such biblical laws to be introduced, showing it is seen also with Christians, they though do not hold the majority view and thank goodness for that
This will be the case in the future in Muslim majority countries as already as seen people are against such rulings and what is needed is to support those against such punishments.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

what a very insecure man muhammed was when he wrote the koran   , what a very backward and barbaric religion islam is and will always be, how anyone can defend this barbaric evil cult is very baffling . They either defend it because they are just being plain stupid or they don't give a toss about innocent people caught up in this disgusting cult .

Muhammad was a very sick man and suffered from what can only be described as epilepsy

there is of course the possibility and high probability of demonic possession, Muhammad was a mass murdering psychopath who reveled in slaughter and bloodshed  

PS - Muhammad didn't write the qur'an, it was written after his death by someone else

Thank you for that , didn't his child bride have a lot of influence in the writings of the koran ?
As for Mohammed being demon possessed i would definitely agree with that .

Didge wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:didge none of those scriptures have anything to do with apostasy.

When is the last time you heard of any Christian or Jew actually being killed or the courts agreeing they should be sentenced to death for adultery ?

That is because Dibs in the West, religion does not hold sway in power, when it has, the same happened.
There is a big Evangelical movement in America that calls for such biblical laws to be introduced, showing it is seen also with Christians, they though do not hold the majority view and thank goodness for that
This will be the case in the future in Muslim majority countries as already as seen people are against such rulings and what is needed is to support those against such punishments.

Can you please name the Christian group to which you are referring and i cannot see the slightest change whatsoever in Islam and i cannot see any likelihood in change , can you remember what my husband said that the UN could not even get islamic countries to agree to stop murdering gays ?   

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/18/the-conservative-crusade-for-christian-sharia-law.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/sarah-palin-american-law_n_569922.html

http://atheism.about.com/od/reconstructionist/p/Reconstruction.htm