New EU Directive: Do Not Measure Migration!

by Guest Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:37 am

23rd April 2014

Very clever. Very sly.

The Government’s flagship border security system cannot be used to measure immigration levels because border guards are banned from asking passengers how long they intend to stay in Britain, ministers have admitted.

The Home Office has revealed that its beleaguered eBorders project, which is expected to cost the taxpayer £1.2 billion, will provide “insufficient” data on migrant levels.

It also highlighted how European Union rules prohibit immigration officers from asking EU residents about their travel plans - making it impossible to build a full picture of net migration.

Ministers said the Government could face legal challenges if border officers ask travellers too many questions about how long they intend to stay in Britain.

The opposition immediately accused the Home Office of “abject failure” in setting up the crucial IT system, while the chairman of the home affairs select committee said he was “deeply concerned” that a “key original objective” of the scheme will now never be met.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10780685/Flagship-borders-IT-scheme-will-not-measure-immigration-ministers-admit.html

by Ben Reilly Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:02 am

So border guards are the only ones who can measure migration?

by veya_victaous Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:32 am

it is a bit weird that they Ban the Guards from asking that. it is a standard question you would expect when travelling internationally.

Maybe your right Andy Neutral

the UK is just a state of Europe.... and no one told you yet.

It is inevitable in my opinion :::grouch:: the world has moved and in Europe want to exist as any sort of power, it needs to become united.

by Guest Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:37 pm

If that is the case why is it in the rest of the world political and monetary union is not being found necessary?

Is the US pushing for NAFTA to become unified?

Is the common wealth seeking closer ties?

The fact is that tiny little useless Britain as everyone keeps trying to make it out is a major economy all on its little old ownsome and while hampered by being cut off from making its own trade deals because of being tied to the EU.

by Tommy Monk Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:50 pm

More smoke and mirrors from our treacherous govt.

Vote UKIP!

by veya_victaous Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:59 pm

sphinx wrote:If that is the case why is it in the rest of the world political and monetary union is not being found necessary?

Is the US pushing for NAFTA to become unified?

Is the common wealth seeking closer ties?

The fact is that tiny little useless Britain as everyone keeps trying to make it out is a major economy all on its little old ownsome and while hampered by being cut off from making its own trade deals because of being tied to the EU.

you mean why aren't we working towards this Rolling Eyes

http://www.asean.org/communities/asean-economic-community

we are, Australia is would like to close our ties with New Zealand, Papu New Guinea and other south pacific neighbours, the USA woudl like to pull us into a larger Pacific Pact and China would pull us into the Asian Economic Union.

by Guest Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:15 am

veya_victaous wrote:
sphinx wrote:If that is the case why is it in the rest of the world political and monetary union is not being found necessary?

Is the US pushing for NAFTA to become unified?

Is the common wealth seeking closer ties?

The fact is that tiny little useless Britain as everyone keeps trying to make it out is a major economy all on its little old ownsome and while hampered by being cut off from making its own trade deals because of being tied to the EU.

you mean why aren't we working towards this

http://www.asean.org/communities/asean-economic-community

we are, Australia is would like to close our ties with New Zealand, Papu New Guinea and other south pacific neighbours, the USA woudl like to pull us into a larger Pacific Pact and China would pull us into the Asian Economic Union.

There's a difference.

The above won't happen.

by stardesk Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:53 am

And in plain, simple English, bog off! The EU has too much control over us and I agree with Tommy, vote UKIP and return Britain to some semblance of national identity, and control.

Veya, I often watch on tv 'Nothing to declare,' a regular programme on Australian airports, and illegal workers. They do seem to have everything under control, and yes, they ask passengers the purpose of their visit, and how long they intend to stay. We should do the same, never mind what the EU wants. I do get the impression that some EU countries don't want these migrants, and are quite happy to encourage them to come to soft-touch Britain.

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:39 pm

Since Poland joined free movement in 2004, their unemployment rate halved from about 20% to about 10% while our youth unemployment doubled to about 25% during the same period.

by Guest Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:47 pm

“The Government must plan to end reliance on the International Passenger Survey as the primary method of estimating migration: it is not fit for the purposes to which it is put…
“… The ONS and Home Office should move as quickly as possible to measuring immigration, emigration and net migration using e-Borders data”

Those were the words of the Public Administration Select Committee last year. This week the Mail and the Telegraph reported that the government’s ‘eBorders’ project would not in fact be able to improve migration figures.
The reason suggested by the Mail was that EU rules had “banned” border guards from asking EU nationals how long they intend to stay in the UK – which the Home Office confirmed had played a role.
But the Home Office didn’t say the programme would be useless for helping to count people coming to stay in the UK. They emphasised that the data could still be used to “enhance” the current estimates:

“the strategy… has been to use Border Systems Programme [which incorporates e-Borders] data an additional source of information that can improve the estimation of net migration”.

The Home Office also made clear that officials can question EU passengers where they suspected the passenger was travelling under a fake identity or nationality, for example.
The idea that the e-Borders data would not be able to fully replace the IPS is not new either – the UK Statistics Authority said as much in their evidence to the Committee.
The news comes from the government’s response to the recommendations, published this week. Estimates of net migration based on the IPS were underestimated in every year from 2001 to 2010.
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[url=https://twitter.com/share?url=https://fullfact.org/live/2014/apr/migration_statistics_borders_supplement_data_eu_rules-31670&text=%E2%80%98eBorders%E2%80%99 project will still supplement migration data][/url]
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https://fullfact.org/live/2014/apr/migration_statistics_borders_supplement_data_eu_rules-31670

by veya_victaous Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:04 am

We all you seem to think you can maintain a status quo,
YOU CANT
you have let yourself slip and everyone else has moved ahead, your choices are something radical like the EU where there WILL be a generation of pain as your systems adapt and merge Or you can continue to go backwards it is either get off your ass now and do something or Be EVEN further behind in another 20 years.

So you can sit there and cry about immigrants and the big bag EU if you want but without them you'd be literally nothing. Name an export that the UK can be competitive in WITHOUT tariffs!! there is NONE. anything you can do some nation between Pakistan and Japan will do better and cheaper. You only have customers in the EU because in the EU anyone else is getting Tariffs on their goods, take away the tariffs and your more expensive for the same thing so your business will really go under as they cannot compete on price.

REALITY CHECK you don't have an empire to bankroll you now, you actually are not a big nation, you do not actually have a lot of power, your Definitely NOT a major economic player in the 21st century. Suck it up, accept your choice is Union, vassal statehood or 3rd world poverty ?

by Ben Reilly Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:04 am

Excellent post, Veya. Change is the only constant and it kills me that people who are so pro-capitalism cannot grasp that capitalism is all about adaptation. Look at Nokia Smile

by Tommy Monk Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:32 pm

Bullshit veya, being in this so called free trade/common market is not free at all, It costs us between £65-100 billion a year in direct contributions and associated regulation and see tape.

Our treacherous govts have given away our sovereignty and law making powers and control of our borders.

This is not just about trade, it is about the right to self determination, and being in control of our country through our national parliament, not being controlled by an unwanted, unelected dictatorship in Brussels.

We are happy to trade with Europe but don't want to be run by Europe.

The EU has been the cause of problems across Europe, the euro has been an unmitigated disaster.

by Guest Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Bullshit veya, being in this so called free trade/common market is not free at all, It costs us between £65-100 billion a year in direct contributions and associated regulation and see tape.

Our treacherous govts have given away our sovereignty and law making powers and control of our borders.

This is not just about trade, it is about the right to self determination, and being in control of our country through our national parliament, not being controlled by an unwanted, unelected dictatorship in Brussels.

We are happy to trade with Europe but don't want to be run by Europe.

The EU has been the cause of problems across Europe, the euro has been an unmitigated disaster.

After the 3.56bn euros rebate is taken into account (money the EU pays back to the UK, only the UK has this rebate), the UK's net contribution was 7.25bn euros (£5.85bn), according to the EU financial report. The British government estimates that that the single market brings between £30bn and £90bn a year into the UK economy: or between five and fifteen times the UK net contribution. Eurosceptics say UK contributes €4.7bn more then it receives. UK exports to the EU were worth nearly €12bn in September alone. Considering the UK spends £51bn a year in debt interest alone, the £5.86bn spent on getting access to the largest free market in the world could be seen as well worth it. Most professionals, after reviewing the benefits from the single market and the direct benefits, say it is certainly value for money.

by Fred Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 pm

No sure about your figures Didge the EU hasn't produced audited accounts for 19 years. It holds others to higher standards than itself.

Let's be clear if the EUs arguments were so compelling, f it felt it was doing a great job and was beloved by the people it wouldn't be fighting every single plebiscite.

That said a vote for UKIP could undermine he only larges party with a predominately Euro sceptic majority i.e. the Tories.

Labour and the Liberals have made it quite clear they have no intention of consulting us.

by Guest Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:42 pm

Alright said Fred wrote:No sure about your figures Didge the EU hasn't produced audited accounts for 19 years. It holds others to higher standards than itself.

Let's be clear if the EUs arguments were so compelling, f it felt it was doing a great job and was beloved by the people it wouldn't be fighting every single plebiscite.

That said a vote for UKIP could undermine he only larges party with a predominately Euro sceptic majority i.e. the Tories.

Labour and the Liberals have made it quite clear they have no intention of consulting us.

Figures are quite good you can also get them from Fullfact and to me I believe in reforming the EU or at least trying and also have no issue with a referendum being held. As I have stated though UKIP have no viable exit strategy or economic plans, which is a huge concern when people simply voting for them on one or two point issues, which does not make for a viable party but a protest party.

To me there is much to resolve if we do vote to leave and again we would have to abide by EU rulings to still trade with the EU which many UKIP supporters do not realise, we would still have to pay as well to trade within the EU, so all these points being raised from others is very much moot. The biggest concern here is that we have many foreign companies here who could easily close their sites here, as it will also not be viable for them to continue trading here, if it is easier from within the EU and could possibly mean a loos of many jobs.

As I say many things to consider

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