We Must Not Forget That We Are a Nation of Immigrants

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:44 am

Immigration is a highly emotive subject, but we must not forget that we are a nation of immigrants. Since Roman times we have had wave after wave of immigrants: from Angles, Jutes and Norsemen in the dark ages to Normans, Jews and Huguenots in the middle ages, to Italians and Irishmen in the 1800s, to West Indians, Ugandan Asians, Indians and Pakistanis in the 1900s, to north Africans and others in the past decade. Indeed, the star of the London Olympics was Mo Farah, a Somali immigrant.
Immigrants come here because they want to contribute to our society. They tend to fill a skills gap rather than simply replace British workers. The City, the arts and sports are full of immigrants who contribute to our society, as are the education and the health sectors. Our national dish today is as much curry as roast beef and Yorkshire pudding or fish and chips.
I am an immigrant. I moved here with my family when I was nine years old. I have always contributed more to society than I have taken. I have built up a successful business, paid my taxes, raised my family and now have the privilege of representing my country and my community in Parliament. The vast majority of individuals who come to the United Kingdom do so, like me, because they want a better life for themselves and their families. They want to make a contribution to society. That is why I have decided to join a new group, set up by my colleague Mark Field MP, Conservatives for Managed Migration, to try to kick start a calm and reasoned discussion about immigration.
I believe this discussion is necessary because currently there is a race to the bottom by almost all the political parties that sends a message to the electorate that we are fundamentally hostile to those who were not born here. In fact, we should all acknowledge and recognise the huge socio-economic contribution to our economy and country by immigration.
Nevertheless, it is understandable why there has been a public outcry on immigration. The last government lost control over our borders and immigration rose exponentially compared to previous years. Many people found they couldn't get housing, had to wait longer in waiting rooms at their GP and couldn't get their children into the school of their choice. So the government was quite right to tighten up on a dysfunctional immigration system and to crack down on abuses such as sham marriages, fake students and health tourists.
However, setting an arbitrary cap on the number of people coming into our country has the potential of damaging our economy as we begin to recover. There is a skills gap in our country in healthcare, education and the financial service sector amongst others. We should welcome anyone that wants to come here, work hard, pay their taxes and make a contribution to our society. Indeed, as Conservatives we should encourage those immigrants who share our values of enterprise, hard work and family. They are natural Conservative voters. That is why I joined Conservatives for Managed Migration.
As a group we will be promoting the argument for welcoming people into our country in order to strengthen our skills pool and our economy. Yes, we need a robust system of controls in place to regain public trust. This, I believe, the government is doing. But at the same time we must and should have a more balanced debate on immigration in order to make our country stronger in an increasingly competitive world.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/brooks-newmark/immigration-brooks-newmark_b_5043385.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:14 am

..."Indeed, as Conservatives we should encourage those immigrants who share our values of enterprise, hard work and family..."

The ongoing ‘significant abuse’ of Britain’s border controls by bogus students was revealed in government papers last night. Foreign students are illegally working for five-figure salaries and claiming benefits, as well as pretending to attend courses that have no teachers. But a detailed Home Office blitz planned by Theresa May against the migrants and their colleges is being blocked by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.

A leaked Cabinet letter written by the Home Secretary reveals that, despite a concerted government crackdown on bogus colleges, ‘abuse of the system has evolved, not disappeared’.

At a single college, 397 students with no right to work in Britain were caught earning more than £20,000 a year – potentially depriving Britons of a job. This suggests that, nationwide, thousands of students may be guilty of working illegally. At the same private college 62 students were found to be wrongly pocketing benefits. Investigators also discovered that one college claimed it had 50 students but only 18 were attending classes. It had recruited 70 more to study at a campus that has no teachers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591207/Britains-bogus-foreign-students-They-work-illegally-claim-benefits-one-college-no-teachers.html

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:16 am

Tesstacious wrote:..."Indeed, as Conservatives we should encourage those immigrants who share our values of enterprise, hard work and family..."

The ongoing ‘significant abuse’ of Britain’s border controls by bogus students was revealed in government papers last night. Foreign students are illegally working for five-figure salaries and claiming benefits, as well as pretending to attend courses that have no teachers. But a detailed Home Office blitz planned by Theresa May against the migrants and their colleges is being blocked by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.

A leaked Cabinet letter written by the Home Secretary reveals that, despite a concerted government crackdown on bogus colleges, ‘abuse of the system has evolved, not disappeared’.

At a single college, 397 students with no right to work in Britain were caught earning more than £20,000 a year – potentially depriving Britons of a job. This suggests that, nationwide, thousands of students may be guilty of working illegally. At the same private college 62 students were found to be wrongly pocketing benefits. Investigators also discovered that one college claimed it had 50 students but only 18 were attending classes. It had recruited 70 more to study at a campus that has no teachers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591207/Britains-bogus-foreign-students-They-work-illegally-claim-benefits-one-college-no-teachers.html

Eh

So the Mail has concluded thousands must be bogus based on one?
Interesting, and yes we need better checks for any studying here, but that is no reason to stop people coming to study in this country Tess, all it means is that the systems are at present not working to carry out proper checks

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:20 am

Tesstacious wrote:..."Indeed, as Conservatives we should encourage those immigrants who share our values of enterprise, hard work and family..."

The ongoing ‘significant abuse’ of Britain’s border controls by bogus students was revealed in government papers last night. Foreign students are illegally working for five-figure salaries and claiming benefits, as well as pretending to attend courses that have no teachers. But a detailed Home Office blitz planned by Theresa May against the migrants and their colleges is being blocked by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.

A leaked Cabinet letter written by the Home Secretary reveals that, despite a concerted government crackdown on bogus colleges, ‘abuse of the system has evolved, not disappeared’.

At a single college, 397 students with no right to work in Britain were caught earning more than £20,000 a year – potentially depriving Britons of a job. This suggests that, nationwide, thousands of students may be guilty of working illegally. At the same private college 62 students were found to be wrongly pocketing benefits. Investigators also discovered that one college claimed it had 50 students but only 18 were attending classes. It had recruited 70 more to study at a campus that has no teachers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591207/Britains-bogus-foreign-students-They-work-illegally-claim-benefits-one-college-no-teachers.html

disgusting they should be jailed for fraud and then deported Twisted Evil

by Raggamuffin Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:32 am

Why is there a skills gap though? Why are British people not being trained for these skilled jobs? Is it too expensive? Are they not interested in becoming skilled?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:37 am

You did all see the Panorama programme in February about student visas didn't you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26024375

It was FUCKING UNBELIEVABLE.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:38 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Why is there a skills gap though? Why are British people not being trained for these skilled jobs? Is it too expensive? Are they not interested in becoming skilled?

There has always been a skills gap, not everyone takes on certain roles for a start, which we do need to encourage more. For example training to be a doctor takes a very long time

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:41 am

Doctors and nurses eh?

From yesterdays Mail:

Foreign doctors, nurses and cleaners who can’t speak English are being sent on courses to learn the language – at the expense of the taxpayer.

Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses, with some spending around £2,000 per time.

A report released earlier this year revealed 11 per cent of NHS or community health services staff were not from the UK - with people employed from more than 200 countries.

West Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust sent Bulgarian, Brazilian and Chinese employees - who are working in admin and catering roles - on an English language course at a cost of £2,960, according to The Sun.

Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

Jonathan Isaby, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, told The Sun: ‘It’s time health chiefs look at why people from the UK are not filling those roles.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590477/Foreign-doctors-nurses-cleaners-speak-English-sent-taxpayer-funded-language-courses-costing-thousands-pounds.html#ixzz2xFUUXpqy

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:44 am

BigAndy9 wrote:Doctors and nurses eh?

From yesterdays Mail:

Foreign doctors, nurses and cleaners who can’t speak English are being sent on courses to learn the language – at the expense of the taxpayer.

Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses, with some spending around £2,000 per time.

A report released earlier this year revealed 11 per cent of NHS or community health services staff were not from the UK - with people employed from more than 200 countries.

West Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust sent Bulgarian, Brazilian and Chinese employees - who are working in admin and catering roles - on an English language course at a cost of £2,960, according to The Sun.

Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

Jonathan Isaby, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, told The Sun: ‘It’s time health chiefs look at why people from the UK are not filling those roles.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590477/Foreign-doctors-nurses-cleaners-speak-English-sent-taxpayer-funded-language-courses-costing-thousands-pounds.html#ixzz2xFUUXpqy

Again way far cheaper than training any Nurse or Doctor from scratch

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:46 am

Referring to Didge's Huff'nPuff article - yes of course we've had immigrants for centuries - BUT - we had time to assimilate one lot of immigrants (invaders to be more accurate), before the next ones turned up. NEVER in our history has our population been increased by such huge numbers in such a short space of time. That's the difference Didge.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:48 am

If they don't speak English when they apply for the jobs how the hell do they get through the interview ?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:49 am

VOD(original) wrote:If they don't speak English when they apply for the jobs how the hell do they get through the interview ?

Interview?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:50 am

VOD(original) wrote:If they don't speak English when they apply for the jobs how the hell do they get through the interview ?

You don't think the ones doing the interviewing are English do you?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:51 am

Tesstacious wrote:Referring to Didge's Huff'nPuff article - yes of course we've had immigrants for centuries - BUT - we had time to assimilate one lot of immigrants (invaders to be more accurate), before the next ones turned up. NEVER in our history has our population been increased by such huge numbers in such a short space of time. That's the difference Didge.

That is gobbledygook, how does one have time, being the people facing the invading force? They adapted more like and yes our nation has increased by such vast numbers, what do you think the population was when the Anglo Saxons invaded or the Normans?
The vast majority of the land was in small villages, thus any force would have seemed absolutely massive, thus to claim we have never faced such a situation is very wrong. So if the Saxons came say only with just 10,000 to one area of the country and there is 100,000 people sparsely spread out, how would that force seem to them?
massive

Please know your history before you make errors as you just did

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:51 am

I suspected they weren't English which just shows the jobs are not open for British citizens , all fixed .

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:52 am

Tesstacious wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:If they don't speak English when they apply for the jobs how the hell do they get through the interview ?

You don't think the ones doing the interviewing are English do you?

Maybe we pay for interpreters at the interview.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:52 am

Tesstacious wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:If they don't speak English when they apply for the jobs how the hell do they get through the interview ?

You don't think the ones doing the interviewing are English do you?

Poor stereotype and assumption based answer

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:52 am

the skill gap happened because apprenticeships stopped, which was stupid, the idea of someone working under a skilled tradesman until that tradesman was too old worked very well..

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:53 am

Didge wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:Referring to Didge's Huff'nPuff article - yes of course we've had immigrants for centuries - BUT - we had time to assimilate one lot of immigrants (invaders to be more accurate), before the next ones turned up. NEVER in our history has our population been increased by such huge numbers in such a short space of time. That's the difference Didge.

That is gobbledygook, how does one have time, being the people facing the invading force? They adapted more like and yes our nation has increased by such vast numbers, what do you think the population was when the Anglo Saxons invaded or the Normans?
The vast majority of the land was in small villages, thus any force would have seemed absolutely massive, thus to claim we have never faced such a situation is very wrong. So if the Saxons came say only with just 10,000 to one area of the country and there is 100,000 people sparsely spread out, how would that force seem to them?
massive

Please know your history before you make errors as you just did

You do realize you've just compared our current immigration situation with former invasions?

Own goal. lol!

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:53 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:

You don't think the ones doing the interviewing are English do you?

Maybe we pay for interpreters at the interview.

You have evidence this is pandemic or even a reality?
You do realise most temp agencies for example have English and Maths competency tests?
I seriously do laugh at some of the things prejudice people promote on forums, based again off poor assumptions

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:54 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:

That is gobbledygook, how does one have time, being the people facing the invading force? They adapted more like and yes our nation has increased by such vast numbers, what do you think the population was when the Anglo Saxons invaded or the Normans?
The vast majority of the land was in small villages, thus any force would have seemed absolutely massive, thus to claim we have never faced such a situation is very wrong. So if the Saxons came say only with just 10,000 to one area of the country and there is 100,000 people sparsely spread out, how would that force seem to them?
massive

Please know your history before you make errors as you just did

You do realize you've just compared our current immigration situation with former invasions?

Own goal.

I have compared the sizes not how they came Tess, which is different but then again you did screw up your last post so no doubt look at any desperate attempt to divert away from your error

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:56 am

The General Medical Council said current European rules represent a “serious cause of concern” and risk to patient safety by banning it from testing GPs’ language skills before they can start working here.

The regulator said it has some doctors on its books who "are not able to communicate in English" but could not prevent them seeking work here under European law.

It warned that bogus doctors from other countries may find their way into the NHS by presenting fake certificates or ID, because of a lack of security checks, or could hide the fact that they had been suspended from practising in their homeland.

Even genuine doctors from abroad may have little idea of how to carry out procedures that are standard in Britain, because there is no standard training, education or healthcare system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8414727/Foreign-doctors-work-in-Britain-without-speaking-English.html

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:58 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
The General Medical Council said current European rules represent a “serious cause of concern” and risk to patient safety by banning it from testing GPs’ language skills before they can start working here.

The regulator said it has some doctors on its books who "are not able to communicate in English" but could not prevent them seeking work here under European law.

It warned that bogus doctors from other countries may find their way into the NHS by presenting fake certificates or ID, because of a lack of security checks, or could hide the fact that they had been suspended from practising in their homeland.

Even genuine doctors from abroad may have little idea of how to carry out procedures that are standard in Britain, because there is no standard training, education or healthcare system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8414727/Foreign-doctors-work-in-Britain-without-speaking-English.html

Yes you can post many articles, again it is far cheaper to train someone in a language than to train a doctor or a nurse.
Nobody is denying we need checks for those coming from the EU, the rest of the world we do already have checks on competency in speaking English

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:58 am

The GMC said it has already carried out fitness to practise cases in which doctors have been struck off or suspended partly as a result of their poor English.

In one case, a doctor was found “apparently speaking in a foreign language” in an operating theatre, leaving the assistant surgeon “unsure what assistance was required”.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:58 am

BigAndy9 wrote:The GMC said it has already carried out fitness to practise cases in which doctors have been struck off or suspended partly as a result of their poor English.

In one case, a doctor was found “apparently speaking in a foreign language” in an operating theatre, leaving the assistant surgeon “unsure what assistance was required”.

Yes you can post many articles, again it is far cheaper to train someone in a language than to train a doctor or a nurse.
Nobody is denying we need checks for those coming from the EU, the rest of the world we do already have checks on competency in speaking English

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:00 am

BigAndy9 wrote:The GMC said it has already carried out fitness to practise cases in which doctors have been struck off or suspended partly as a result of their poor English.

In one case, a doctor was found “apparently speaking in a foreign language” in an operating theatre, leaving the assistant surgeon “unsure what assistance was required”.

surely it stands to reason that language can be a barrier at the best of times, in a life or death situation a very serious barrier..

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:00 am

When my son had his accident on his elbow and was in hospital for 5 days most of the doctors on duty spoke very little english, at one point my daughter in law had to ask for an english speaking doctor to explain what was going on . Ridiculous and dangerous

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:01 am

You're dead right - I can post many many articles - not about money, but about risk to life.

And you can keep chirping about how cheap and badly trained (if at all) the foreigners are.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:02 am

VOD(original) wrote:When my son had his accident on his elbow and was in hospital for 5 days most of the doctors on duty spoke very little english, at one point my daughter in law had to ask for an english speaking doctor to explain what was going on . Ridiculous and dangerous

Hearsay and from someone biased against immigrants, makes it less credible in my view
Seriously I worked in the HNS for two years and never came across any foreign doctors who could not speak English. I have no doubt some may be hard to understand sometimes with accents but again I never came across any that could not speak English.
Not even saying there are not some out there, but I take with a pinch of salt some of the claims I hear

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:03 am

VOD(original) wrote:When my son had his accident on his elbow and was in hospital for 5 days most of the doctors on duty spoke very little english, at one point my daughter in law had to ask for an english speaking doctor to explain what was going on . Ridiculous and dangerous

My wife and I have also had an experience similar to that - a foreign nurse tried to take my wife's blood pressure - nothing she did was right.

We walked away, went to an English nurse and told her about our experience - she said she's new and did it herself.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:04 am

Didge wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:When my son had his accident on his elbow and was in hospital for 5 days most of the doctors on duty spoke very little english, at one point my daughter in law had to ask for an english speaking doctor to explain what was going on . Ridiculous and dangerous

Hearsay and from someone biased against immigrants, makes it less credible in my view
Seriously I worked in the HNS for two years and never came across any foreign doctors who could not speak English. I have no doubt some may be hard to understand sometimes with accents but again I never came across any that could not speak English.
Not even saying there are not some out there, but I take with a pinch of salt some of the claims I hear

No it isn't i was there to and saw and heard what went on....

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:06 am

Andy being new is not an excuse she should have known exactly what to do , she just didn't know her job and shouldn't be a nurse this makes me so angry

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:07 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:When my son had his accident on his elbow and was in hospital for 5 days most of the doctors on duty spoke very little english, at one point my daughter in law had to ask for an english speaking doctor to explain what was going on . Ridiculous and dangerous

My wife and I have also had an experience similar to that - a foreign nurse tried to take my wife's blood pressure - nothing she did was right.

We walked away, went to an English nurse and told her about our experience - she said she's new and did it herself.

It always astounds me all this stories I hear:

Anyway:

Speaking English Does Matter, But Almost All Immigrants to the UK Do

But what does this really mean? The statistics used by both The Sun and the Guardian come from the 2011 Census; the Office for National Statistics have just published an excellent summary of what the figures tell us about language knowledge and use. The bottom line is that there are indeed a lot of people in the UK whose first language isn't English: 4.2 million, although that's still less than 8% of the total, rising to a high of 41% in Newham (hence The Sun's number).

But, as the ONS is at pains to point out, "a much smaller percentage [1.6%] of the total population said they could either not speak English well or not at all." The bottom line is that only 134,000 people - 0.3% of the total population - don't speak English at all. Even in Newham, where well over half the population was born abroad, and The Sun seems to think that people "simply don't want to integrate", fewer than one in 10 of the population can't speak English well.

Overall, of the well over seven million people in this country who were born abroad, less than a million can't speak English well, and most of those appear to be at least making an effort. So much of the comment on this simply confuses, deliberately or through carelessness, not speaking English as a first language or not speaking it at home, true of very large numbers of UK residents, with not speaking it at all or not wanting to learn it, true of very few indeed. [Note: the Guardian did subsequently correct Jackie Ashley's error].

A similar confusion applies to schools. The Daily Telegraph claimed earlier this year that "in secondary schools, at least one-in-eight children have a relatively poor grasp of English, it emerged." In fact, no such thing "emerged" at all. Indeed, amazingly, pupils in Inner London whose first language isn't English actually significantly outperformed the national average for all pupils at GCSEs this year.

Nor, contrary to the arguments made by government Ministers and Migration Watch, is there any evidence that the presence of pupils with English as a second language damages the attainment of native pupils. [Incidentally, it should be noted that - in contrast to some of the media misrepresentation noted above - the Daily Mail has produced a number of balanced and informative stories on this particular issue. Here's the latest]

So should we be relaxed about immigrants not speaking English? Absolutely not. English clearly matters, both for the labour market and for broader issues like integration and social cohesion. Immigrants who don't speak English, not surprisingly, are less likely to be in work and get much lower wages. This is bad for the immigrants themselves and bad for the economy as a whole. So when Mr Miliband argues that:

What was really striking to me was talking to the women in the classroom about learning English. They said to me overwhelmingly, "Look, we've got to be able to learn English, because otherwise," as one of them said, "how can we be part of our society?" ..so we'll make English language teaching a priority, and the priority it deserves to be.
This makes a lot of sense. This is the sort of practical policy measure that could improve outcomes both for immigrants and the wider economy and society.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jonathan-portes/immigrants-speaking-english_b_2817716.html

hence why I take alot of claims from posters who are already biased on this subject with a pinch of salt, as well as from own experience knowing most do not seem to ring true these claims

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:09 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Didge wrote:

Hearsay and from someone biased against immigrants, makes it less credible in my view
Seriously I worked in the HNS for two years and never came across any foreign doctors who could not speak English. I have no doubt some may be hard to understand sometimes with accents but again I never came across any that could not speak English.
Not even saying there are not some out there, but I take with a pinch of salt some of the claims I hear

No it isn't i was there to and saw and heard what went on....

So, you are biased against immigrants too, again I worked with many Doctors, you only have met some, thus my evidence base is having known far many more doctors and Nurses than you, hence why I find the claim not very credible

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:10 am

Almost all didge?

I remember the first Gulf War - every couple of days an American would hold a press conference showing us rockets and missiles going down a chimney or up an Iraqi's bottom.

80% of missiles hit within a metre of where they wanted them to go he said.

Wow I thought.

Then I thought for a second - but they've dropped or fired 2 - 4 million on the country so far (I don't remember) - that's a lot of misses.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:12 am

Didge wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

No it isn't i was there to and saw and heard what went on....

So, you are biased against immigrants too, again I worked with many Doctors, you only have met some, thus my evidence base is having known far many more doctors and Nurses than you, hence why I find the claim not very credible

You claim to have lived here all your life and yet we can see you're not a native English speaker.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - you were born here but you've spent all your time around foreigners. It really does show didge.

So, foreigners who come here can speak English - to what standard?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:13 am

BigAndy9 wrote:Almost all didge?

I remember the first Gulf War - every couple of days an American would hold a press conference showing us rockets and missiles going down a chimney or up an Iraqi's bottom.

80% of missiles hit within a metre of where they wanted them to go he said.

Wow I thought.

Then I thought for a second - but they've dropped or fired 2 - 4 million on the country so far (I don't remember) - that's a lot of misses.

It is loads and lots of potentials for mistakes, but that is a missile, not a human

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:14 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

So, you are biased against immigrants too, again I worked with many Doctors, you only have met some, thus my evidence base is having known far many more doctors and Nurses than you, hence why I find the claim not very credible

You claim to have lived here all your life and yet we can see you're not a native English speaker.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - you were born here but you've spent all your time around foreigners. It really does show didge.

So, foreigners who come here can speak English - to what standard?

PMSL so my mum being Irish speaking English is not native now?

Twat

I grew up around everyone speaking English in fact even my dad (RIP) forgot much of his first language he spoke English all the time, so stop being a fucking twat

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:15 am

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

You claim to have lived here all your life and yet we can see you're not a native English speaker.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - you were born here but you've spent all your time around foreigners. It really does show didge.

So, foreigners who come here can speak English - to what standard?

PMSL so my mum being Irish speaking English is not native now?

Twat

I grew up around everyone speaking English in fact even my dad (RIP) forgot much of his first language he spoke English all the time, so stop being a fucking twat

I'm not being a tw4t - I'm posting my opinion of what I've seen over 3 or 4 years.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:17 am

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Maybe we pay for interpreters at the interview.

You have evidence this is pandemic or even a reality?
You do realise most temp agencies for example have English and Maths competency tests?
I seriously do laugh at some of the things prejudice people promote on forums, based again off poor assumptions

Says you.... "Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses, with some spending around £2,000 per time."

So if they pass an English competency test, why do they have to be taught English?

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:18 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

PMSL so my mum being Irish speaking English is not native now?

Twat

I grew up around everyone speaking English in fact even my dad (RIP) forgot much of his first language he spoke English all the time, so stop being a fucking twat

I'm not being a tw4t - I'm posting my opinion of what I've seen over 3 or 4 years.

Just because my grammar is not the best or like you being exposed to having to use a spell check or the fact many English people also have poor grammar does show what a twat you are to poorly assume something again onto someone.

If you act a twwat you get called a twat after I have told you so many times I am British, you may not like this because you are a prejudiced twat, but that is your tough shit

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:20 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:

You have evidence this is pandemic or even a reality?
You do realise most temp agencies for example have English and Maths competency tests?
I seriously do laugh at some of the things prejudice people promote on forums, based again off poor assumptions

Says you.... "Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses, with some spending around £2,000 per time."

So if they pass an English competency test, why do they have to be taught English?

So the Mail claims Tess who again I take with a pinch of salt and again all non eu NHS have to take competency tests.
The tests could be for EU if again it is many, it does not state how many Nurses or Doctors only that they have had courses.

I see no issue with that and it ensures the best service and again far cheaper than training someone new from scratch

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:24 am

Actually Tess do the maths on the numbers, because from what i see it would not be many people going on a course.
For a start how much is a course for one person?

Point two Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

That does not seem many to me, due to the amount spent.
It is again a good twist by the Mail which again relies on its readers being gullible

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:28 am

True didge.

I wonder what level of English it was they were doing then.

Therefore what level are they at right now?

by nicko Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:35 am

I vote didge for Prime Minister, all our troubles would be over.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:38 am

nicko wrote:I vote didge for Prime Minister, all our troubles would be over.

Yes - he'd tell us "there are no troubles, everything is fine, we all love each other".

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:42 am

Didge wrote:Actually Tess do the maths on the numbers, because from what i see it would not be many people going on a course.
For a start how much is a course for one person?

Point two Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

That does not seem many to me, due to the amount spent.
It is again a good twist by the Mail which again relies on its readers being gullible

No you're the one doing the twisting - cherry-picking one bit...

"Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses,...!

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:44 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:Actually Tess do the maths on the numbers, because from what i see it would not be many people going on a course.
For a start how much is a course for one person?

Point two Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

That does not seem many to me, due to the amount spent.
It is again a good twist by the Mail which again relies on its readers being gullible
No you're the one doing the twisting - cherry-picking one bit...

"Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses,...!

surely that money could be given to British workers to keep them in the nhs...

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:48 am

5 million immigrants to England from 1997 to 2011.

How many more foreign NHS workers had to come here BECAUSE OF THEM?

It's a terrible terrible spiral.

by Guest Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:00 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:Actually Tess do the maths on the numbers, because from what i see it would not be many people going on a course.
For a start how much is a course for one person?

Point two Gloucestershire Hospitals Foundation Trust also spent £2,050 sending staff for lessons, while Mid Cheshire spent £2,000 sending 18 Spanish nurses on a course, the newspaper reported.

That does not seem many to me, due to the amount spent.
It is again a good twist by the Mail which again relies on its readers being gullible
No you're the one doing the twisting - cherry-picking one bit...

"Nearly a third of all hospitals in England – 31 out of 110 NHS Trusts - are sending their foreign staff on English language courses,...!

Dear me you are gullible, how many went on each of these courses Tess?
Just because around a third sent some on courses how many people are we talking about here?
Again look at the low amount spent, it might give you a massive clue

Verdict on Tess:

Gullible

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