I think I just created a family war scenario

So my SIL (hubby's eldest sibling) is a strange woman. When I first met her she seemed great, she lived in some old railway workerman's flat in Euston. It was a really quirky olde worlde area and she is very well educated (catholic convent) having learned latin, ancient Greek etc and all of them are avid readers. She saw herself as a free spirit, permanent resident of 'woodstock' era and always assumed she would sweep a rock star off his feet. (She used to hang out with Lemmy from Motorhead and chums). She worked as a croupier and top hotels and met all sorts, a real metropolitan style if you will. However, she is now a recluse who has just last year been housed from a refuge (her own mother had to evict her as she was affecting MIL's health as well), I just had a discussion with her about her trying to get (yet another) dog. The last one she had is still living with MIL who herself is 95 years old and now she wants another one to make HER life better.

This infuriated me and after many times trying to help and give advice I sent her the following message

A dog is like a baby to my mind, Ronnie . I also feel it would be wrong for someone to say ''if I have a baby I will feel better and my mental health will improve and I will have a reason to get up in the morning''. If you can't get up in the morning for yourself then I would genuinely feel sorry for any dog in your care. You have to sort yourself out first before you can be of any help to any creature. It may well help YOU feel better if you have a dog but what about the poor sodding dog? I understand that you and your doctor may feel differently but quite frankly I would email every dog charity in the country to try to block it as I don't thik you are capable of giving a dog a good life. If you don't even have the motivation to reach out to services you have been offered or to ring the local laundrette (rather let 6MONTHS of washing build up). To be honest, Ronnie I think you need specialist help in some kind of unit. I shall email social services next week to find out why this is being allowed to carry on. You seem so angry and isolated and unhappy. would it not be wiser to get a councillor to get your own life on track ?

The thing is the whole family are a bit pearl clutchy and I doubt sincerely whether anyone ever even said anything remotely like that to her before.

I tried, seriously I tried (for some considerable time) to be so nice and helpful but just got a blank wall. I was so determined that this year I wouldn't be so much of a cunt and would try to be more helpful and understanding towards folk in general but,,,,

She logged out without responding and now I'm feeling like I'm awaiting a call from the headmasters office cos I bunked off school but I still stand by everthing I said

what do you think?

I think you are very brave.
It's not easy to speak out, (I know this to my own cost) families can be like a time bomb....simmering along till someone lights the fuse.
I think if she wants a dog, she will probably get one. Unless she has a criminal record banning her from owning animals, I doubt anything you can do will stop her.
Same with social services, if she isn't a danger to herself or others...why should they care if she lets her dirty clothes pile up?
You cant force people to accept help.

Maybe though, especially if people dont usually confront her, she might think about what you have said, words can have an effect if someone is open to reason.

Let us know what happens.x

Syl wrote:I think you are very brave.
It's not easy to speak out, (I know this to my own cost) families can be like a time bomb....simmering along till someone lights the fuse.
I think if she wants a dog, she will probably get one. Unless she has a criminal record banning her from owning animals, I doubt anything you can do will stop her.
Same with social services, if she isn't a danger to herself or others...why should they care if she lets her dirty clothes pile up?
You cant force people to accept help.

Maybe though, especially if people dont usually confront her, she might think about what you have said, words can have an effect if someone is open to reason.

Let us know what happens.x

Thank you Syl x I appreciate that

As to what happened,,,,

I have now received an email from a different sister in law (with two other sisters in law copied in to it) who told me I was *despicable* for doing that, ie ''threatening a vulnerable person'' and to never contact her again nor ask about her

hey ho

Blimey.....that's some reaction.
Will you leave it at that?

In my own experience concerning family, sometimes things are best left unsaid, but like you, I tend to speak out, not always the easiest option if you want a peaceful life.

No, I didn't leave it at that, lol. I responded with the following message.....

''Hi Sheila, Thanks for the email but for the record I most certainly did not threaten to report her to social services...wtf? report her for what? as far as I'm aware she hasn't done anything to report her for,,,,,I have no idea why you think i have ''threatened'' her. How utterly ludicrous. I have spent the past few days listening to her clearly saying she can't cope....''mice everywhere, floorboards rotten, walls crumbling, 6 months of washing built up that she can't manage, her arm killing her so she can't even do the simplest of tasks'' I mentioned that this shouldn't be allowed to continue and that would talk to them (social services) next week only to see if something more could be done for her as she just can't cope (you yourself said she belonged in a unit).

With regard to the dog, yes I did end up losing all patience with her on that score for the above reasons. She cant look after herself, she couldn't even look after a goldfish much less a dog and I told her I thought it would be better for her to sort her own life out before getting yet another dog. These innocent animals are meant/hoped to have a happy life and i'm more concerned for the animal but Ronnie doesn't really care just as long as SHE gets to feel better. The fact that she has never so much as visited zara or bothered with her in anyway shows perfectly plainly that it's not about giving an animal a better life at all but just centred around what Ronnie wants.

Telling her I would email the dog charities was merely a result of the frustration although I still feel it would be wrong for her to have one. She messaged me and asked both my boys if they could come and sort out her garden ie, pick up the fallen shed, fix the shed door, pick up all the rubbish that had blown in there and all the plant pots that had scattered themselves all round the garden. She said she wanted it done in a hurry but when I asked her why she said so she could send a photo to the dog charity and both my boys refused merely on the grounds that they both think it's wrong as well. They said that after reading the messages the house nor garden sounded safe anyway. They are both animal lovers,

They would help her out with anything else if she reached out and asked but not to help her get a dog (yet).

I'm sorry that It may seem as though I have over reacted, I stand by what I have said.

I;m even more sorry that you would immediately label me as despicable without even so much as a call to find out my side. I thought we were closer than that but no matter.

your message has been fully understood

all the best''



I felt I was being unfairly attacked tbh and my intentions were to help her. I wasn't being spiteful or nasty. yet it seems that is how it's being perceived.

Maybe, in the sad state she is in, Ronnie put her own spin on what you said.
Hopfully, the other sister in law will see what you really meant.

Using words like 'despicable' is never a good move, they are guaranteed to put people on the defensive....so your response was pretty reasonable.

Has Ronnie always had problems, or has she recently had a breakdown? It sounds like she just cant cope.
I do agree with you and your lads re the dog. Animals need care and attention, she doesn't seem in a fit state to care for one at the moment.

Spot on, Gels. If she can't cope with the washing she can't cope with exercising a dog, full stop. I would have felt the need to speak out.

Eddie and I have friends who are very house-proud and love a party and a night out. When they told us they wanted to get a dog, Eddie strongly cautioned them against it.

Of course, they became stubborn in the face of that and got one anyway. Now he's a little out-of-control monster who never gets enough exercise, is resented by the man of the house, tears up their previously very nice garden, gets crated for hours on end, and won't come when they call him.

They really should re-home him, but there's a 10-year-old girl in the house whose heart would be broken, so they're stuck!

You sound so much like me!

I get to the point where I lose patience (after long, long, times of trying) and then I get blunt.

Know what I think? People should always, always say what they think instead of pussy-footing around so as not to “hurt others’ feelings”

And if you hurt someone’s feelings, it’s usually because you hit the nail right on the part of themselves that is vulnerable. Softly, softly, doesn’t always work - actually it rarely does.

So I say this: speak out, of you lose her, you lose her...she’s lost to you anyway.

People like us, we are either appreciated for our direct speech or we are disliked. In the end, the ones that appreciate us the people we need in our lives. I like people being blunt and direct with me.
But then. I don’t have an insecure or affronted bone in my body.

I think you're just being honest, gels. Man...what I'm wonderin' is, why can't she just collect the dog she abandoned to MIL? I mean, she's already dumped one dog.

Sounds like you've married into a real hornets nest, what with Ronnie and Sheila. I don't mean to intrude, but why doesn't Sheila promise to look after the dog after Ronnie abandons it.

Really appreciate the feedback on this one.

There has been no answer whatsoever to my email and today I said to beanie that i felt i should reach out and apologise to Ronnie (mostly for the sake of MIL who would be well aware of what's gone on).

I talked it over with my kids and they said it was up to me and they could understand why but i haven't done it yet.

quill you raise an interesting point and for further clarity, Ronnie was apparently made homeless many years ago (there would have been good reason but no one ever gets to the bottom of anything with Ronnie) and went on a missing list and MIL was really worried about her as she hadn't been in touch for months/ Anyhow contact was made and Ronnie was sofa surfing and surviving but MIL invited her to live back home (it was meant to be temporary) and then she stayed and stayed and stayed. Not only that but she took over most of the house with her own trash and brought the dog into the house against MILs wishes in the first place.

After many years of being frustrated MIL said she wanted ROnnie to leave but Ronnie wouldn't because the council wouldn't house her as she would be considered voluntarily homeless so MIL literally had to go through the court process to get her out. She went into a refuge but couldn't take the dog. When she got her house she wanted Zara back but after all these years MIL had grown to love her a lot and was company and protection and was told by the family to leave Zara with mum and ''get another one''.

As for d Sheila, they have a dog already (quite new) and although Zara is fabulous with people she is not so good with other dogs so,,,,

Zara is fine with MIL but the fact that Ronnie has never bothered to go visit or ask for pictures or even ask that she is ok speaks volumes to me

However, i don't want the family in uproar over it. I feel it's the only option

My son said to me ''if you feel it's right to apologise mum then do it for peace but just know that we all still stand firmly with everything you said,,,and you know me, mum,,,,if i thought you were wrong i would tell you''

And the joyous thing is he would too, they all would cos that's how i brought them up. i don't like the odd truth bomb any more than anyone else but i've brought my kids up to speak truth regardless and I'm so glad that I can trust them to tell me about myself if they think I need it. It's a great feeling

gelico wrote:

So my SIL (hubby's eldest sibling) is a strange woman.  When I first met her she seemed great, she lived in some old railway workerman's flat in Euston.  It was a really quirky olde worlde area and she is very well educated (catholic convent) having learned latin, ancient Greek etc and all of them are avid readers.  She saw herself as a free spirit, permanent resident of 'woodstock' era and always assumed she would sweep a rock star off his feet.  (She used to hang out with Lemmy from Motorhead and chums).  She worked as a croupier and top hotels and met all sorts, a real metropolitan style if you will.  However, she is now a recluse who has just last year been housed from a refuge (her own mother had to evict her as she was affecting MIL's health as well),  I just had a discussion with her about her trying to get (yet another) dog.  The last one she had is still living with MIL who herself is 95 years old and now she wants another one to make HER life better.

This infuriated me and after many times trying to help and give advice I sent her the following message

A dog is like a baby to my mind, Ronnie .  I also feel it would be wrong for someone to say ''if I have a baby I will feel better and my mental health will improve and I will have a reason to get up in the morning''.   If you can't get up in the morning for yourself then I would genuinely feel sorry for any dog in your care.  You have to sort yourself out first before you can be of any help to any creature.  It may well help YOU feel better if you have a dog but what about the poor sodding dog?   I understand that you and your doctor may feel differently but quite frankly I would email every dog charity in the country to try to block it as I don't thik you are capable of giving a dog a good life.  If you don't even have the motivation to reach out to services you have been offered or to ring the local laundrette (rather let 6MONTHS of washing build up).  To be honest, Ronnie I think you need specialist help in some kind of unit.  I shall email social services next week to find out why this is being allowed to carry on.  You seem so angry and isolated and unhappy.  would it not be wiser to get a councillor to get your own life on track ?

The thing is the whole family are a bit pearl clutchy and I doubt sincerely whether anyone ever even said anything remotely like that to her before.

I tried, seriously I tried (for some considerable time) to be so nice and helpful but just got a blank wall.  I was so determined that this year I wouldn't be so much of a cunt and would try to be more helpful and understanding towards folk in general but,,,,

She logged out without responding and now I'm feeling like I'm awaiting a call from the headmasters office cos I bunked off school but I still stand by everthing I said

what do you think?

As much as I love how you are outspoken as me Gelico and say what you think

In this case it was a poor approach

You will say if someone told me as you did, I would listen

What you have not factored is how and understand what might get through to her

There are many reasons why and how things go wrong in life for people and how and why she has become a recluse

I have no idea and I doubt you do too

Sometimes people can party all life and age creeps up on them and they lose the very essence of their confidence that was a very major aspect of their character

I am second guessing here, but the point is normally I would back your approach, but clearly there is underlining reasons how and why she feels the way she is today and your approach is unlikely to get through to her

I would start by  approaching this from a position from what changed for her

You can never help people, if you fail to understand how and what changed an individual to now be the person they now are

Your approach failed here, which would otherwise work in many situations

Hence your frustration here is because she has not listened, because she is being stubborn

Sorry you approached this all wrong

It seems to e she distrusts many people, so its unlikely she is going to listen to you

Hence if you approach this with how you think she should be and not understand who she now is, you have not dwelt into her past to understand why she is who she is today

Its your frustration leaping out here, because she is not listening, but are you listening to her?

As the reality is you have not gained her trust

That is key

Until you understand what is driving how she feels, then you will be banging your head against a wall

Stay gold.x

Didgee wrote:

gelico wrote:

So my SIL (hubby's eldest sibling) is a strange woman.  When I first met her she seemed great, she lived in some old railway workerman's flat in Euston.  It was a really quirky olde worlde area and she is very well educated (catholic convent) having learned latin, ancient Greek etc and all of them are avid readers.  She saw herself as a free spirit, permanent resident of 'woodstock' era and always assumed she would sweep a rock star off his feet.  (She used to hang out with Lemmy from Motorhead and chums).  She worked as a croupier and top hotels and met all sorts, a real metropolitan style if you will.  However, she is now a recluse who has just last year been housed from a refuge (her own mother had to evict her as she was affecting MIL's health as well),  I just had a discussion with her about her trying to get (yet another) dog.  The last one she had is still living with MIL who herself is 95 years old and now she wants another one to make HER life better.

This infuriated me and after many times trying to help and give advice I sent her the following message

A dog is like a baby to my mind, Ronnie .  I also feel it would be wrong for someone to say ''if I have a baby I will feel better and my mental health will improve and I will have a reason to get up in the morning''.   If you can't get up in the morning for yourself then I would genuinely feel sorry for any dog in your care.  You have to sort yourself out first before you can be of any help to any creature.  It may well help YOU feel better if you have a dog but what about the poor sodding dog?   I understand that you and your doctor may feel differently but quite frankly I would email every dog charity in the country to try to block it as I don't thik you are capable of giving a dog a good life.  If you don't even have the motivation to reach out to services you have been offered or to ring the local laundrette (rather let 6MONTHS of washing build up).  To be honest, Ronnie I think you need specialist help in some kind of unit.  I shall email social services next week to find out why this is being allowed to carry on.  You seem so angry and isolated and unhappy.  would it not be wiser to get a councillor to get your own life on track ?

The thing is the whole family are a bit pearl clutchy and I doubt sincerely whether anyone ever even said anything remotely like that to her before.

I tried, seriously I tried (for some considerable time) to be so nice and helpful but just got a blank wall.  I was so determined that this year I wouldn't be so much of a cunt and would try to be more helpful and understanding towards folk in general but,,,,

She logged out without responding and now I'm feeling like I'm awaiting a call from the headmasters office cos I bunked off school but I still stand by everthing I said

what do you think?

As much as I love how you are outspoken as me Gelico and say what you think

In this case it was a poor approach

You will say if someone told me as you did, I would listen

What you have not factored is how and understand what might get through to her

There are many reasons why and how things go wrong in life for people and how and why she has become a recluse

I have no idea and I doubt you do too

Sometimes people can party all life and age creeps up on them and they lose the very essence of their confidence that was a very major aspect of their character

I am second guessing here, but the point is normally I would back your approach, but clearly there is underlining reasons how and why she feels the way she is today and your approach is unlikely to get through to her

I would start by  approaching this from a position from what changed for her

You can never help people, if you fail to understand how and what changed an individual to now be the person they now are

Your approach failed here, which would otherwise work in many situations

Hence your frustration here is because she has not listened, because she is being stubborn

Sorry you approached this all wrong

It seems to e she distrusts many people, so its unlikely she is going to listen to you

Hence if you approach this with how you think she should be and not understand who she now is, you have not dwelt into her past to understand why she is who she is today

Its your frustration leaping out here, because she is not listening, but are you listening to her?

As the reality is you have not gained her trust

That is key

Until you understand what is driving how she feels, then you will be banging your head against a wall

Stay gold.x

aw didge, i appreciate that total honesty and i completely agree with you. you are so bang on with much of what you said which is why i feel the need to apologise.

imnot sorry for having the opinion i do but genuinely sorry that all i've done is make her feel 1000x worse, upset the family and been no help whatsoever.

despite the best of intentions, when i get frustrated i turn into an ox at the queen's tea party,,,just blundering about crashing into everything, knocking shit flying and pissing folk off. no finesse or sensitivity whatsoever and i think i should maybe work on that,,,,

thanks dude

x

Gelico, you need to read Dr Steve Peters book called "The chimp paradox".


Audiobook here...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5umrf6kaj-s&cbrd=1

I think if you speak from the heart you can never go wrong.

If others’ make you feel bad then that’s simply outside influence.