What do we make of this? (Tommy, one for you!)

Saw it on social media. Just thought I’d hear some opinions...feel free to research yourselves.

I mean, it’s either true, or the reporters have got it all wrong.

Either way, it’s worrying.

It's a newspaper founded by former journalists who've embraced assorted conspiracy theories regarding Covid and the vaccines, taking stances against wearing masks and vaccination, and promoting the "Great Reset" theory that Covid was engineered by a group of powerful people, including President Biden, to control people's lives and the global economy.

It's hogwash.

If that’s the case, then it’s little wonder that people have lost faith in true journalism. We shouldn’t have to google who wrote something or question a newspaper’s “morals” before we read the news.

The news is supposed to report the facts...yet we are seeing that they don’t.

And that is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

eddie wrote:If that’s the case, then it’s little wonder that people have lost faith in true journalism. We shouldn’t have to google who wrote something or question a newspaper’s “morals” before we read the news.

The news is supposed to report the facts...yet we are seeing that they don’t.

And that is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

They either have no honor or they believe in what they're doing. A lot of people these days are finding themselves convinced of things that sound pretty outlandish to me -- and not just stupid people. These are really strange times.

“They either have no honor or they believe in what they're doing”

I don’t care about their views or feelings or honour! Like most people I want to be able to believe in the reports I read! It’s not up to the public to google whether someone is “trustworthy”, is it???

Perhaps the problem is this: don’t put fucking stories out there that are not based on facts!

I repeat, that is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

eddie wrote:“They either have no honor or they believe in what they're doing”

I don’t care about their views or feelings or honour! Like most people I want to be able to believe in the reports I read! It’s not up to the public to google whether someone is “trustworthy”, is it???

Perhaps the problem is this: don’t put fucking stories out there that are not based on facts!

I repeat, that is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

It's just like everything else, though -- when you see stuff like this, you have no way of knowing whether the people writing it think they're trying to tell everyone the truth, or if they're trying to get everyone to believe something the authors know isn't true.

I think these days, more and more, people choose what they wish to be true and then set about convincing others and themselves. They don't just accept that reality includes some things they don't like.

“It's just like everything else, though -- when you see stuff like this, you have no way of knowing whether the people writing it think they're trying to tell everyone the truth, or if they're trying to get everyone to believe something the authors know isn't true.”

I agree. And I repeat (again):
That is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

eddie wrote:Saw it on social media. Just thought I’d hear some opinions...feel free to research yourselves.

Rank stupidity

If anyone believes vaccines are killing us, when they have helped save many people from the seriousness of this illness. Then sorry they are fuckwits

Nobody should be forced to have a vaccine, Its their choice what they do with their bodies bot stories like this are rank stupidity

So in conclusion, and to nutshell....

When we read an article we have no way of knowing whether it’s true or not.

eddie wrote:So in conclusion, and to nutshell....

When we read an article we have no way of knowing whether it’s true or not.

So to conclude, you must have to be a real delusional loon to believe and think the world is conspiring to murder millions of people with vacccines

Do you know why I think stories like this are utterly being irresponsible

Is because there is not an ounce of truth in them

If people do not want to take the vaccine, then fine, that is your choice, but if people spread and promote bullshit around vaccines. Then that person should rightly be called out for being negligent.

A person has every right to be a paranoid delusional dick

That does not mean you should also spread your delusions to others

Its the fact that people seriously think many medical experts would deliberately seek to murder people through the development of vaccines.

It really is one help of a delusional leap for people to take such a leap here

Didgee wrote:

eddie wrote:So in conclusion, and to nutshell....

When we read an article we have no way of knowing whether it’s true or not.

So to conclude, you must have to be a real delusional loon to believe and think the world is conspiring to murder millions of people with vacccines

Ooh. I never said that. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion!
My points in this thread were about reporting?

eddie wrote:

Didgee wrote:

So to conclude, you must have to be a real delusional loon to believe and think the world is conspiring to murder millions of people with vacccines

Ooh. I never said that. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion!
My points in this thread were about reporting?

Never claimed you personally did and was speaking rhetorically in regards to people who seem to think the world is conspiring to kill them through vaccines

The point is that news article was bullshit, negligent and irresponsible

Then you agree with me. News reporting is not to be trusted unless you google and research...and that should not be the case.

eddie wrote:Then you agree with me. News reporting is not to be trusted unless you google and research...and that should not be the case.

Based off one story, this is your approach?

Kind of a paranoid approach

Didgee wrote:

eddie wrote:Then you agree with me. News reporting is not to be trusted unless you google and research...and that should not be the case.

Based off one story, this is your approach?

Kind of a paranoid approach

That’s it. I’m paranoid.

eddie wrote:

Didgee wrote:

Based off one story, this is your approach?

Kind of a paranoid approach

That’s it. I’m paranoid.

Cool, I think many people generally are to be honest

Yes. They probably are...because paranoia stems from not being able to trust.

And I don’t trust the media.

See my above points.

eddie wrote:Yes. They probably are...because paranoia stems from not being able to trust.

And I don’t trust the media.

See my above points.

So trust issues is the real problem here then?

Didgee wrote:

eddie wrote:Yes. They probably are...because paranoia stems from not being able to trust.

And I don’t trust the media.

See my above points.

So trust issues is the real problem here then?

Well obviously. That’s why debates happen when people quote resources and links? Nobody trusts the other person’s link or resource. Don’t you ever notice that???

If every link and resource was trusted there wouldn’t be mistrust.

These vaccines HAVE killed thousands!


I posted a link a couple of weeks ago on another thread that listed all deaths and serious bad reactions on a monthly basis.


Take a look...

Just found the post ..

Heard this website mentioned on LBC a little while ago... It has this section on vaccine adverse reactions...

But of course these vaccines are really totally "safe and effective".


https://www.ukmedfreedom.org/resources/covid-19-vaccine-info#Adverse-Reactions

Tommy Monk wrote:

Just found the post ..

Heard this website mentioned on LBC a little while ago... It has this section on vaccine adverse reactions...

But of course these vaccines are really totally "safe and effective".


https://www.ukmedfreedom.org/resources/covid-19-vaccine-info#Adverse-Reactions

lol you think that is evidence

I went to the link and oddly it referred to many media sources and not a single peer reviewed paper on the number of deaths tommy

Its twitter handle has 17k followers and claims to be a medical source

Well any medically knowledgeable people will know your claim the vaccine has killed thousands is simple bullshit

As your link never provides any actual data for your claim Tommy

They make a spectacular claim:

"VAERS – the American version of the Yellow Card reporting system – released new data on November 26th bringing the total to 927,740 reports of adverse events following Covid vaccines, including 19,532 deaths and 146,720 serious injuries."

So I went to the link they supplied to confirm their claims and what do you think I found tommy?

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

That not only do the figures not add up in your original link claims

But I found the real numbers of which in many cases it does not claim the vaccine killed them.

Odd that eh Tommy

I suggest you research further

• Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 459 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through November 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 10,128 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.  CDC clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records. A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—that causes blood clots with low platelets—which has caused or directly contributed to six confirmed deathsexternal icon.
  
  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

6 confirmed deaths from one type of vaccine that has been administered to millions

Is not thousands of deaths is it Tommy?

so can I just check who on here has had the covid jab offered

once? twice? booster?

can y'all confirm your meds status as it stands now

and for those who have had it,,,,,do you intend to have further boosters?

The link I posted has reports of deaths and serious adverse reactions in numerous countries.


A lot of which are going unreported on 'official' figures.

This BBC journalist was killed by the vaccine...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796


And this woman too...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59434281


And these 2 boys from same school died soon after supposedly 'flu vaccines' were dished out... There are denials that covid vaccines were the cause... And it smells very fishy to me...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-59593729


I have read that there have been lots of deaths after covid vaccines administered but medics are bending over backwards to put causes down to anything else other than vaccine being cause...


Maybe we should have a counter going on which shows deaths within 28 days of having a vaccine... Just like the covid death counter is done...?

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm


Here it says...

"...as we prevent 3 deaths by vaccinating, we incur 2 deaths..."

From the above link...


Thus, we need to accept that around 16 cases will develop severe adverse reactions from COVID-19 vaccines per 100,000 vaccinations delivered, and approximately four people will die from the consequences of being vaccinated per 100,000 vaccinations delivered. Adopting the point estimate of NNTV = 16,000 (95% CI, 9000–50,000) to prevent one COVID-19-related death, for every six (95% CI, 2–11) deaths prevented by vaccination, we may incur four deaths as a consequence of or associated with the vaccination. Simply put: As we prevent three deaths by vaccinating, we incur two deaths.

Also...


The risk–benefit ratio in terms of deaths prevented and deaths incurred thus ranges from 2:3 to 1:8, although real-life data also support ratios as high as 2:1, i.e., twice as high a risk of death from the vaccination compared to COVID-19, within the 95% confidence limit.

gelico wrote:

so can I just check who on here has had the covid jab offered

once? twice?  booster?

can y'all confirm your meds status as it stands now

and for those who have had it,,,,,do you intend to have further boosters?

Having my booster on Tuesday


If people do not want to get vaccinated, cool its up to them, but it makes very little sense

If people are fearing the vaccine over the actual virus. Its because clearly they have not seen someone dying from covid, like I have.

The virus is real and there has been over 5 million global deaths from this

If people do not want help that ensures better protection for their body, then so be it. Its their choice

But its a very foolish thing to do.

As those refusing a vaccine, are playing high stake odds at a gambling table. Hoping the cards dealt will be in their favour

Its a risk that such people will make and that they sadly wish to gamble with their own lives

More fool them

Most UK people have already had covid.

And already have natural immunity.

I had it last year in February.

Tommy Monk wrote:


Most UK people have already had covid.

And already have natural immunity.

I had it last year in February.

I am glad you have recovered from this Tommy

What i do find poor is when people argue that its some how bad to take vaccines. Where those vaccines have been created to help our bodies defend against a virus that has the potential to kill people

If you do not want to take the vaccine, good for you and I am anti vaccine mandates

What I will be critical of you,. is in regards to the bullshit you believe in around this

If you did as i did and went to your linked website, (being I am a risk analyst) is to check claims being made

As seen i did and they incorrectly and falsely claimed thousands of people have been killed by vaccines

That was bullshit and such bullshit promoted has one central view. To argue that people do not get vaccinated

Its negligent and its also claiming and believing that the vast majority of people are stupid

Anti-vaxxers are nothing more than trying to emulate slavery

They wish people to bow down to their beliefs

Go figure Tommy, because you truly are not thinking for yourself but buying into fear

Good luck with that

I gave up ages ago with Gels and Tommy.

Tommy has his point of view and refuses to listen to any expert medical advice if it doesn't tally with his own way of thinking.

Gels seems to have scared herself to death listening and watching the most ridiculous anti-vax conspiracy sites.

Best let people just get on with believing what they want to believe....no matter how crazy it seems to others.

For Didge again...


https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm



Here it says...

"...as we prevent 3 deaths by vaccinating, we incur 2 deaths..."


And...

Thus, we need to accept that around 16 cases will develop severe adverse reactions from COVID-19 vaccines per 100,000 vaccinations delivered, and approximately four people will die from the consequences of being vaccinated per 100,000 vaccinations delivered. Adopting the point estimate of NNTV = 16,000 (95% CI, 9000–50,000) to prevent one COVID-19-related death, for every six (95% CI, 2–11) deaths prevented by vaccination, we may incur four deaths as a consequence of or associated with the vaccination. Simply put: As we prevent three deaths by vaccinating, we incur two deaths.


And...

The risk–benefit ratio in terms of deaths prevented and deaths incurred thus ranges from 2:3 to 1:8, although real-life data also support ratios as high as 2:1, i.e., twice as high a risk of death from the vaccination compared to COVID-19, within the 95% confidence limit.

And Syl... Please don't dismiss me so offhandedly as if you are the authority on anything and I am some nut job conspiracy whack a doodle...


There are plenty of experts and evidence that contradict the 'official' story... And the figures I have posted on how many people in UK have already had the actual covid virus by now still stand!


It's you who refuses to acknowledge anything that doesn't tally with what you want to believe!

Syl wrote:I gave up ages ago with Gels and Tommy.


Gels seems to have scared herself to death listening and watching the most ridiculous anti-vax conspiracy sites.

Hey, I've really missed you, syl and so glad you're back,,,,only to find you've ''given up on me''??

I wouldn't give up on you so easily and quickly, syl - that I wouldn't

Tommy Monk wrote:

And Syl... Please don't dismiss me so offhandedly as if you are the authority on anything and I am some nut job conspiracy whack a doodle...



There are plenty of experts and evidence that contradict the 'official' story... And the figures I have posted on how many people in UK have already had the actual covid virus by now still stand!


It's you who refuses to acknowledge anything that doesn't tally with what you want to believe!

Seriously, I have debated this topic with you since the start of the pandemic......so not sure why you think i have 'dismissed you offhandedly ' Tommy.

I dont for one minute think i am an authority, but I do listen to the people who are.
I see the charts, the data, read the research, and keep up with the latest info from many of the experts  here and globally.....and the vast majority would dismiss your stance on Covid as wishful thinking, unmoving  and uninformed.

So excuse me if i have nothing to add....ie.....I give up on any further discussion with you on this subject.
No offence.

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:I gave up ages ago with Gels and Tommy.


Gels seems to have scared herself to death listening and watching the most ridiculous anti-vax conspiracy sites.

Hey, I've really missed you, syl and so glad you're back,,,,only to find you've ''given up on me''??

I wouldn't give up on you so easily and quickly, syl - that I wouldn't

Really?
Well I will be really honest as usual, and tell you straight, I gave up discussing this topic with you after you made this post.....

..."and there will always be the section like syl who lives in a nice fluffy world where the government wouldn't dream of lying to the people and can be trusted to to it's utmost to protect it's citizens, and will ignore and dismiss evidence before her eyes because it's too much to cope with.  she will never leave that world because she can't.  she is probably all ready double jabbed and will go for a booster and (if she has the real thing and not the placebo which makes perfect scientific sense during a deadly pandemic ) she will die in a few short years  and then she will haunt me and say ''see, geli, i told you covid was dangerous''

Dont bother adding anything to it Gels, you said enough.

uh, well, syl i've read it back 3 times and I will be honest too when I say I thought it to be true. I take it your are jabbed and will take the booster when offered and also that you do believe the government and the sage scientists and mainstream news in that they can be trusted to report the truth......was that wrong then?

or was it just that snarky bit at the end which, in truth, was nothing more than an attempt at light-heartedness to hide my own frustrations.

The only thing I can say is I am truly sorry if you feel angry/hurt/upset or any negative emotion over what i've said. it was never intended as I honestly have always thought a lot of you.

try to forgive me if you can syl. i'm not a terrible person, just a bit of an arse at times is all

I post facts and figures based on official data... It's just that these facts and figures don't get media attention because they are too busy peddling hype and fearnongering...

And I must add, Syl... You are hook line and sinker for the media spun hysterical hyperbole!


Here are some facts for you...


The 'official' death figure from covid here in UK is way overblown than what the real figure is.

The 'official' number of 'confirmed' cases is way lower than the true actual number of cases here in UK over the last 2 years.

Vast majority of people here in UK have already had the actual covid virus, and had mostly no symptoms, second highest group had mild cold symptoms, third highest group had flu symptoms, only a tiny percentage had severe flu type symptoms, and a smaller group needed hospital treatment, and an even smaller percentage actually died FROM COVID... WHILE A LARGE PROPORTION OF THOSE SAID TO HAVE DIED FROM COVID ACTUALLY DIDNT DIE FROM IT BUT JUST DIED FROM A MULTITUDE OF OTHER CAUSES BUT JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID TOO!!!

I’ve had my two initial jabs and the booster, and at 82 with long term diabetes 2 (in spite of never having been overweight, let alone obese, and still keeping fit by waking most days for up to three miles at my fitness ap recorded speed of 2.8mph, plus an artificial heart valve made out of a bit of cast-off cow,
I’m content to place my trust in the vaccine programme.

I have thus far lost a good friend, a cousin and her husband to Covid and I think what we are seeing is a re-run of an even more deadly pandemic than the 1918 influenza outbreak that swept the world in the aftermath of WW1. Then, there were no flu vaccines and millions died worldwide. This time, vaccines appeared unbelievably quickly and I fully accept that there may well be so far undiscovered mid to long term side effects, but as someone classified as extremely clinically vulnerable I’m not prepared to take any risks by siding with anti-vac conspiracy theorists.

Sorry Moley but Spanish flu killed 50 million out of 1.8 billion world population.


This is very mild in comparison.

eddie wrote:If that’s the case, then it’s little wonder that people have lost faith in true journalism. We shouldn’t have to google who wrote something or question a newspaper’s “morals” before we read the news.

No reason to lose faith in true journalism just because there exist those who spread lies. Learn to tell the difference.

Untruth has always been around, and always will be. The theory of the First Amendment is, good people will always make good judgments if left unimpeded in their access to all information. We call this the marketplace of ideas, and just as in the markets of automobiles, or fruits & vegetables, in the market of ideas people will learn what is a trustworthy product and what is not.

eddie wrote:The news is supposed to report the facts...yet we are seeing that they don’t.

Truth is just another commodity. In general, truth is more trustworthy than lies. That is why people generally sort out what source is truthful and what is not. The facts are available, just learn about reliable sources.

eddiie wrote:And that is why nobody believes what they read anymore.

Nonsense. No need to distrust markets in general just because you got some rotten tomatoes at a particular market. Just go to a reputable market where they have more trustworthy products.

As Ben says, they sell ‘hogwash’ at the news source you went to.

South Africa top doc stresses that Omicron brings 'mild illness'

The head of the South African Medical Association refreshed her claims that the Omicron variant is 'mild' having spent one month treating patients with it.

Dr Angelique Coetzee spoke to Tom Swarbrick a fortnight after her initial appearance on LBC where she told him that the West was overreacting to Omicron.

She echoed her initial claims that Omicron is a relatively "mild" variant of coronavirus, which sees greater transmission yet lower rates of hospitalisation.

Tom defended the UK's new rules for the sake of argument: "We don't know, and so the most cautionary thing to do is to make sure that hospitals are not overwhelmed if it's not mild, and so we put in these additional measures.

"Do you think that's a reasonable response?"

"This is now our fourth week, there's no reason you can't trust us when we say to you 'it's mild disease!'" Dr Coetzee insisted.

She said that whilst she understands the precautions the UK is taking, "there's really no need" to reenter lockdown over the Omicron variant.

"Yes, you can have a million cases, you can have even more than that, but the severity of the disease is mild", she said again


https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/tom-swarbrick/south-africa-top-doc-angelique-coetzee-stresses-omicron-mild/

Syl wrote:I gave up ages ago with Gels and Tommy.

Tommy has his point of view and refuses to listen to any expert medical advice if it doesn't tally with his own way of thinking.

Gels seems to have scared herself to death listening and watching the most ridiculous anti-vax conspiracy sites.

Best let people just get on with believing what they want to believe....no matter how crazy it seems to others.

I think it’s crazy for anyone to assume they know what the hell is going on. Nobody knows what to believe anymore.
If a story or link sits right with a person then they’ll believe it because it backs up what they believe.

And one can never KNOW what is true and what isn’t especially when you get contradicting news stories. So don’t shoot the listener, shoot the messengers.

gelico wrote:

so can I just check who on here has had the covid jab offered

once? twice?  booster?

can y'all confirm your meds status as it stands now

and for those who have had it,,,,,do you intend to have further boosters?

Had both jabs and am planning to get my booster soon.

First jab had nearly no effects, second jab made me feel like I had mild Covid for about a week.

Vaccines have saved millions, perhaps billions of lives. Yes, they've killed a very small percentage of people who've taken them. A much smaller percentage than the percentage of people who've been infected with Covid and gone on to die.

If the Covid vaccines have long-term side effects that are not yet apparent, it would be the first vaccine in history to do that.

Everyone should have the vaccine unless they have a valid medical reason not to. The fact that Trump and his supporters have spread all this anti-vax nonsense (ironically, despite the fact that Trump played a significant role in the development of the vaccines) is why this pandemic is two years old and shows no signs of going away any time soon.

Also, I'm not saying that the experts are right 100 percent of the time or should enjoy our absolute, unwavering trust, but they tend to be right far more often than their detractors. You might even say that this is what makes them experts.

Media outlets these days are just like the people you encounter in every day life -- some you can trust, some you can't, and it's pretty much up to us to figure it out.

What some outlets have figured out is that there is a growing audience of people who, for whatever reason, lack the ability to cope with the idea that the world isn't just what they want it to be, so these outlets cater to, and make money off of, such people by telling them what they want to believe with no regard for accuracy.

Taken from your post:

“Media outlets these days are just like the people you encounter in every day life -- some you can trust, some you can't, and it's pretty much up to us to figure it out.”

And I repeat, again, this is WHY people have no trust and are confused...we aren’t supposed to have to try and work out who’s right and wrong. People don’t trust media stories because we have to turn into investigators first, and therein lies the problem.

But I’ve made this point many times only to keep repeating myself, so time to get off this wheel.