Being "proud to be White" (etc.) is fucking stupid! Here's why

First topic message reminder :

We hear a lot these days about people saying they're "proud to be white," mainly as a reaction to the shocking sentiment behind the name of the Black Lives Matter movement, i.e., that it might not be okay for police to murder black people.

White pride is idiotic, stemming from a misunderstanding of why things like Black History and Hispanic Heritage months in America exist in the first place.

First off, let's be objective -- it's completely illogical to be proud of having white skin, or black skin, or being tall, or being short, or having green eyes. Things about your appearance that you can't control aren't worthy of being proud of.

Where pride exists where it shouldn't is easily explained, however. People develop a sense of pride in something about themselves that they can't help -- being a certain color, a certain gender, or a certain sexual orientation -- when society has repeatedly and emphatically tried to make them feel ashamed of being that color, gender, or orientation.

So yes, it's dumb to feel proud of being gay -- someone who asserts that he/she is proud to be gay only does so because he/she has been made to feel ashamed of it. Logically, there should be no more pride in being gay than in being straight (which is why it's also stupid when people ask, "Why are there no Straight Pride parades?" Hello, society at large has never, ever, tried to make straight people feel ashamed of being straight).

Feeling proud of anything about yourself you can't control doesn't make sense; it's an opposite-extreme response to being told you should feel shame over something about yourself you can't control.

Ben Reilly wrote:We hear a lot these days about people saying they're "proud to be white," mainly as a reaction to the shocking sentiment behind the name of the Black Lives Matter movement, i.e., that it might not be okay for police to murder black people.

White pride is idiotic, stemming from a misunderstanding of why things like Black History and Hispanic Heritage months in America exist in the first place.

First off, let's be objective -- it's completely illogical to be proud of having white skin, or black skin, or being tall, or being short, or having green eyes. Things about your appearance that you can't control aren't worthy of being proud of.

Where pride exists where it shouldn't is easily explained, however. People develop a sense of pride in something about themselves that they can't help -- being a certain color, a certain gender, or a certain sexual orientation -- when society has repeatedly and emphatically tried to make them feel ashamed of being that color, gender, or orientation.

So yes, it's dumb to feel proud of being gay -- someone who asserts that he/she is proud to be gay only does so because he/she has been made to feel ashamed of it. Logically, there should be no more pride in being gay than in being straight (which is why it's also stupid when people ask, "Why are there no Straight Pride parades?" Hello, society at large has never, ever, tried to make straight people feel ashamed of being straight).

Feeling proud of anything about yourself you can't control doesn't make sense; it's an opposite-extreme response to being told you should feel shame over something about yourself you can't control.

Yep, it is stupid. Don't see anything controversial about this statement. What is there to be proud for?

So I take it from the general direction of this discussion that pride and personal satisfaction at the specific teaching of “black history” and celebration of “black culture” has nothing to do with the question of skin colour. Interesting…..

I'm white and I'm proud!


If you have a problem with this then that is your problem!

Tommy Monk wrote:


I'm white and I'm proud!


If you have a problem with this then that is your problem!

How can you be proud just because your skin is a certain colour?

Fred Moletrousers wrote:So I take it from the general direction of this discussion that pride and personal satisfaction at the specific teaching of “black history” and celebration of “black culture” has nothing to do with the question of skin colour. Interesting…..

If your point is that skin color isn't involved...yes it is.  But, it's not the question of color, but the question of overcoming the cultural bias of white supremacists/racists utilizing skin color to classify people.  What racism means is the bias of white supremacists; what black pride means is any achievement of overcoming that bias.

White pride has no meaning, precisely because whites have never had to achieve any overcoming of any racism. In modern society (since, say, 1300 AD) whites have been the dominant, controlling class or race.

Blacks didn't make black skin the brand of outcasts or second-class citizens.  White supremacists did.  That is called racism.  First there is bias, then there is focus on black skin...or any other mark that is congenital.

That isn't to say all whites are racists, I mention parenthetically.  It's only to say that some whites have developed the notion that white skin is superior, and their opinion is significant because they are in the majority.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


I'm white and I'm proud!


If you have a problem with this then that is your problem!

How can you be proud just because your skin is a certain colour?

What if you spent a lot of time working on a golden tan?

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

How can you be proud just because your skin is a certain colour?

What if you spent a lot of time working on a golden tan?  

Actually, I have....

I like it, but I wouldn't say I was proud of it.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

How can you be proud just because your skin is a certain colour?

What if you spent a lot of time working on a golden tan?  

That sort of activity usually results in the subject achieving a rather curious shade of burnt orange. I don’t think that “burnt orange” is a skin tone that normally promotes impassioned discussions on racial issues….but, then again……..

That isn't to say all whites are racists, I mention parenthetically. It's only to say that some whites have developed the notion that white skin is superior, and their opinion is significant because they are in the majority.

Not sure I am understanding what you are actually trying to convey here.

Vintage wrote:That isn't to say all whites are racists, I mention parenthetically.  It's only to say that some whites have developed the notion that white skin is superior, and their opinion is significant because they are in the majority.

Not sure I am understanding what you are actually trying to convey here.

I mark that passage as "parenthetical" because it's not essential to my point...but it always, inevitably comes up. So I put in parenthesis: I am not anti-white, but just anti-white supremacist.

Mmm right.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Maddog wrote:

What if you spent a lot of time working on a golden tan?  

That sort of activity usually results in the subject achieving a rather curious shade of burnt orange. I don’t think that “burnt orange” is a skin tone that normally promotes impassioned discussions on racial issues….but, then again……..

Trump seemed proud of that hue.

Syl wrote:

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:
I like her.....and i think anyone who has been frisked by a hatchet faced harridan at  any airport, understands and admires the way Diana Ross retaliated.

i don't understand this at all

I  had to look up Florence Ballard lol, but what's it got to do with being searched at an airport?


retaliated?

Two different events. Diana Ross was reported to have got rid of Florence Ballard who was a founder member of the Supremes, but other reports say she had nothing to do with Florence getting the sack. It was the manager who wanted to highlight Diana Ross as she was the more charismatic singer.
In fact Ballards sister has spoken up in defence of Ross saying she was not to blame....and Florence didn't have a bad word to say about Ross at the end.

The airport thing was when Diana Ross was frisked at a UK airport years ago, she said the woman was ignorant, rough, and actually touched her up....anyway, she retaliated by slapping her, she was arrested.
As I have a knee replacement I am frisked every time I go abroad....and some of those women are dead bloody ignorant, so I can sympathise with the way Ross acted..

You,think it’s okay to slap someone who’s doing their job?

Tommy Monk wrote:


I'm white and I'm proud!


If you have a problem with this then that is your problem!

Nobody has a problem with this, they just want to know what makes you feel proud of your skin color.

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:

Two different events. Diana Ross was reported to have got rid of Florence Ballard who was a founder member of the Supremes, but other reports say she had nothing to do with Florence getting the sack. It was the manager who wanted to highlight Diana Ross as she was the more charismatic singer.
In fact Ballards sister has spoken up in defence of Ross saying she was not to blame....and Florence didn't have a bad word to say about Ross at the end.

The airport thing was when Diana Ross was frisked at a UK airport years ago, she said the woman was ignorant, rough, and actually touched her up....anyway, she retaliated by slapping her, she was arrested.
As I have a knee replacement I am frisked every time I go abroad....and some of those women are dead bloody ignorant, so I can sympathise with the way Ross acted..

You,think it’s okay to slap someone who’s doing their job?

I can understand her frustration, though there are varying reports on whether she did slap her, the airport official said she was 'assaulted' Ross denies it, and she wasn't charged.

I can understand her frustration,  because I have been on the receiving end of many of these frisks, and the women can be rough, incredibly ignorant, and their hands do sometimes wander in places it would be bloody hard to conceal a knife or a bomb.
I always tell them it's my left knee that has set off the alarm....more often than not the woman doing the frisking doesn't even acknowledge I have spoken.

In my experience the most ignorant employees are in the UK.

I’m not a massive fan of Diana Ross anyway. Her voice is mediocre and she didn’t write anything that I know of.
I never really understood her popularity, if I’m honest.

eddie wrote:I’m not a massive fan of Diana Ross anyway. Her voice is mediocre and she didn’t write anything that I know of.
I never really understood her popularity, if I’m honest.

I was brought up on her music, The Supremes, then Diana Ross and the Supremes, were probably the most popular Tamla Motown girl group back then, and I loved their music.
I think by the time she went solo she had the reputation of being a bit of a diva...but as in everything, taste in music is a personal choice.