Being "proud to be White" (etc.) is fucking stupid! Here's why

We hear a lot these days about people saying they're "proud to be white," mainly as a reaction to the shocking sentiment behind the name of the Black Lives Matter movement, i.e., that it might not be okay for police to murder black people.

White pride is idiotic, stemming from a misunderstanding of why things like Black History and Hispanic Heritage months in America exist in the first place.

First off, let's be objective -- it's completely illogical to be proud of having white skin, or black skin, or being tall, or being short, or having green eyes. Things about your appearance that you can't control aren't worthy of being proud of.

Where pride exists where it shouldn't is easily explained, however. People develop a sense of pride in something about themselves that they can't help -- being a certain color, a certain gender, or a certain sexual orientation -- when society has repeatedly and emphatically tried to make them feel ashamed of being that color, gender, or orientation.

So yes, it's dumb to feel proud of being gay -- someone who asserts that he/she is proud to be gay only does so because he/she has been made to feel ashamed of it. Logically, there should be no more pride in being gay than in being straight (which is why it's also stupid when people ask, "Why are there no Straight Pride parades?" Hello, society at large has never, ever, tried to make straight people feel ashamed of being straight).

Feeling proud of anything about yourself you can't control doesn't make sense; it's an opposite-extreme response to being told you should feel shame over something about yourself you can't control.

I agree /\.

This seems to be a modern phenomenon, bigging yourself up because you are...well...you.

I can't be proud of being slim, but if I am fat and I work hard at losing weight so I end up slim, that's an achievement...so I can be proud.

Shallow comparison maybe, but it explains my opinion.

I'm proud to be white.

Do they actually mean skin tone though? Is it talking about a type of culture and condition that developed in countries that were, by geography, white skinned.

I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee.

Maddog wrote:I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee.

I remember that expression from the film An officer and a gentleman....it stuck in my mind.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee.

I remember that expression from the film An officer and a gentleman....it stuck in my mind.

It a song by Merle Haggard from my youth. A bit of a redneck anthem and a song used to mock them/us.

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm proud to be white.

Why, did you work really hard until finally you were white?

Or are you proud to be white because society has always told you to be ashamed of being white?

I’m not sure I understand the context / message of the thread?

eddie wrote:I’m not sure I understand the context / message of the thread?

Really, just that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of things you had no control over, like being born a certain race, or from a certain country, etc. And that movements like gay pride and black pride are more an overreaction by people who've been told to be ashamed of being gay or black, rather than feeling legitimately proud of being born that way.

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:I’m not sure I understand the context / message of the thread?

Really, just that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of things you had no control over, like being born a certain race, or from a certain country, etc. And that movements like gay pride and black pride are more an overreaction by people who've been told to be ashamed of being gay or black, rather than feeling legitimately proud of being born that way.

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:I’m not sure I understand the context / message of the thread?

Really, just that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of things you had no control over, like being born a certain race, or from a certain country, etc. And that movements like gay pride and black pride are more an overreaction by people who've been told to be ashamed of being gay or black, rather than feeling legitimately proud of being born that way.

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

White people in majority-white countries haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination.

Ben Reilly wrote:We hear a lot these days about people saying they're "proud to be white," mainly as a reaction to the shocking sentiment behind the name of the Black Lives Matter movement, i.e., that it might not be okay for police to murder black people.

White pride is idiotic, stemming from a misunderstanding of why things like Black History and Hispanic Heritage months in America exist in the first place.

First off, let's be objective -- it's completely illogical to be proud of having white skin, or black skin, or being tall, or being short, or having green eyes. Things about your appearance that you can't control aren't worthy of being proud of.

Where pride exists where it shouldn't is easily explained, however. People develop a sense of pride in something about themselves that they can't help -- being a certain color, a certain gender, or a certain sexual orientation -- when society has repeatedly and emphatically tried to make them feel ashamed of being that color, gender, or orientation.

So yes, it's dumb to feel proud of being gay -- someone who asserts that he/she is proud to be gay only does so because he/she has been made to feel ashamed of it. Logically, there should be no more pride in being gay than in being straight (which is why it's also stupid when people ask, "Why are there no Straight Pride parades?" Hello, society at large has never, ever, tried to make straight people feel ashamed of being straight).

Feeling proud of anything about yourself you can't control doesn't make sense; it's an opposite-extreme response to being told you should feel shame over something about yourself you can't control.

I hear you, Ben. I dont understand that at all, like the phrase ''proud to be British'' (Governments have rammed that message home so that when they create wars they call upon the ''patriotic'' that they themselves have created to go and die and feel like it's a worthwhile cause). but really? what's to be proud of? that your mother happened to give birth to you in this particular place? uh?

besides feeling pride over anything is a stupid pointless emotion based purely on ego. and it's a sin

Well, the real question might be....Are you ashamed of being White/Black/Sky Blue Pink?

Are you ashamed of being disabled? Are you ashamed of surviving rape? Are you ashamed of having a big nose or piggy eyes? Are you ashamed of being born out of wedlock?

You can be proud of yourself without being arrogant. Most of us have pride in our appearance. We wash, keep clean and groomed. Is that a bad thing? Most of us have pride in the work we do, or how we raise our kids, etc.

There will always be people who wear pride like a banner, shoving it in people's faces and elevating themselves into positions that just irritate the rest of us. It would be good to say nobody is better than anyone else. But this is just not true. There are people who are better than others, just as there are people who sink to such depths they're not even part of humanity.

Are the Germans ashamed of being German because of what happened in the war? It's ridiculous to blame those alive today for historical events. And the more it gets dragged out of the history books, shaken out and re-examined, probed and regurgitated, the less chance we all have of stamping out real racism and bigotry. The past is gone. We can't change it. We can only learn from it.

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

White people in majority-white countries haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination.

Most men haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination as women.

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Really, just that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of things you had no control over, like being born a certain race, or from a certain country, etc. And that movements like gay pride and black pride are more an overreaction by people who've been told to be ashamed of being gay or black, rather than feeling legitimately proud of being born that way.

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

I got bullied for this....  

HoratioTarr wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

White people in majority-white countries haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination.

Most men haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination as women.

Which is why it's more understandable (though no more logical) for a woman to say she's proud to be a woman than it is for a man to say he's proud to be a man.

If society tells you you're "less than" because of a trait you're born with and can't help being, it's understandable for you to say, "No, I'm actually proud to be that way!" It doesn't make logical sense to be proud of anything you can't actually help, but people do tend to respond to being told to be ashamed of something they have little or no control overy by saying that on the contrary, they're actually proud of it.

I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

Overused and unnecessary.

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

decades ago racism and prejudice was much more prevalent

i should imagine what she really meant was i am proud of the success that i have achieved in a world where  as a black woman success isn't easy''

i totally get that one

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

decades ago racism and prejudice was much more prevalent

i should imagine what she really meant was i am proud of the success that i have achieved in a world where  as a black woman success isn't easy''

i totally get that one

Maybe that’s what she meant perhaps not. Who knows?

I wish people would say what they actually mean. I don’t want to “suppose” what she meant.
Communicate properly so people don’t have to guess what you intended, right?

eddie wrote:

gelico wrote:



decades ago racism and prejudice was much more prevalent

i should imagine what she really meant was i am proud of the success that i have achieved in a world where  as a black woman success isn't easy''

i totally get that one

Maybe that’s what she meant perhaps not. Who knows?

I wish people would say what they actually mean. I don’t want to “suppose” what she meant.
Communicate properly so people don’t have to guess what you intended, right?

well, quite

although i have to confess that on occasion i have deliberately given someone a comment that could be taken different ways, just to have a bit of fun

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

decades ago racism and prejudice was much more prevalent

i should imagine what she really meant was i am proud of the success that i have achieved in a world where  as a black woman success isn't easy''

i totally get that one

Yes, she talked about the horrible racist remarks men had made to her at the start of her career, but instead of allowing them to make her feel small, it had the opposite effect......it empowered her to feel strong, and proud to be exactly what she was, a black woman.

.

Let's not forget that racism in America is far worse than it is in the UK.

Ben Reilly wrote:Let's not forget that racism in America is far worse than it is in the UK.

Britons suffered more than a thousand years of racism and enslavement at the hands of the Romans, German Saxons, Scandinavian Vikings and Norman French.

We have no need of lectures on the subject of discrimination from others.

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm proud to be white.

I’m with Tommy on this. Pride is a natural human emotion and nothing to be ashamed of. I am proud to be white; I am proud to be British; I am proud to be English and I am especially proud to be a Yorkshireman. And why not?

Should a Kenyan not be proud to be black, or a Sikh not proud to be brown, a Japanese not proud to be yellow or a Native American not be proud to be red? Pride in one’s own race, history and heritage does not necessarily signify a claim to precedence or superiority.

Ben Reilly wrote:Let's not forget that racism in America is far worse than it is in the UK.

One of my best friends is mixed race. She said she'd never visit the States again after how she was treated in Florida.

Syl wrote:

gelico wrote:



decades ago racism and prejudice was much more prevalent

i should imagine what she really meant was i am proud of the success that i have achieved in a world where  as a black woman success isn't easy''

i totally get that one

Yes, she talked about the horrible racist remarks men had made to her at the start of her career, but instead of allowing them to make her feel small, it had the opposite effect......it empowered her to feel strong, and proud to be exactly what she was, a black woman.

.

Diana Ross was a twat to Florence Ballard. I can't stand the woman.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Let's not forget that racism in America is far worse than it is in the UK.

One of my best friends is mixed race.   She said she'd never visit the States again after how she was treated in Florida.

Maybe it was the white, British part of her they didn't like?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes, she talked about the horrible racist remarks men had made to her at the start of her career, but instead of allowing them to make her feel small, it had the opposite effect......it empowered her to feel strong, and proud to be exactly what she was, a black woman.

.

Diana Ross was a twat to Florence Ballard.  I can't stand the woman.

I like her.....and i think anyone who has been frisked by a hatchet faced harridan at any airport, understands and admires the way Diana Ross retaliated.

Florence Ballard?

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Diana Ross was a twat to Florence Ballard.  I can't stand the woman.

I like her.....and i think anyone who has been frisked by a hatchet faced harridan at  any airport, understands and admires the way Diana Ross retaliated.

i don't understand this at all

I had to look up Florence Ballard lol, but what's it got to do with being searched at an airport?


retaliated?

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

I disagree with that. Why, even now ABC is promoting it's special on women in the upcoming 9-11 anniversary: Women of 9/11: A Special Edition of 20/20 With Robin Roberts. In addition, there are hundreds of women-oriented clubs & sites, starting with Girl's Inc. and Girl's Leadership. Look at 'em all: https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/resources-for-educators/girls-equity-and-empowerment-resource-list All of these promote pride in womanhood.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Let's not forget that racism in America is far worse than it is in the UK.

One of my best friends is mixed race.   She said she'd never visit the States again after how she was treated in Florida.

Anywhere in the south...it's something to behold. Your friend was lucky she wasn't pulled over by the cops for a broken taillight (common practice of southern cops is to walk up and break the taillight after stopping a black). Eg: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/07/sandra-blands-arrest-and-death-are-a-national-scandal-brian-encinia-and-the-police-are-to-blame.html

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

White people in majority-white countries haven't faced nearly the same level of discrimination.

Generally, you're proud to be some identity, after some challenge to that identity.  School football teams are a source of pride ('I'm proud to be, say, an Oklahoma Sooner') because they live in adversity, playing a game every weekend.  You can be glad you are white, but proud doesn't really fit.  Even with Fred's example, you are proud to be a Briton, but white when your antagonists are Swedes?  Uh...no.

You are proud when you have gone through some sort of test or achievement.  The word 'proud' incorporates that in it's definition:

Oxford Dictionary wrote:proud
/proud/

adjective
1.  feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated.  "a proud grandma of three boys"

2.  having or showing a high or excessively high opinion of oneself or one's importance.
"a proud, arrogant man"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's Ben's point: you generally have to have gone through some sort of test, or accomplished something, in order to be 'proud'.  I'm proud to be an oxygen-breathing, homo sapiens, just doesn't cut it.

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:
I like her.....and i think anyone who has been frisked by a hatchet faced harridan at  any airport, understands and admires the way Diana Ross retaliated.

i don't understand this at all

I  had to look up Florence Ballard lol, but what's it got to do with being searched at an airport?


retaliated?

Two different events. Diana Ross was reported to have got rid of Florence Ballard who was a founder member of the Supremes, but other reports say she had nothing to do with Florence getting the sack. It was the manager who wanted to highlight Diana Ross as she was the more charismatic singer.
In fact Ballards sister has spoken up in defence of Ross saying she was not to blame....and Florence didn't have a bad word to say about Ross at the end.

The airport thing was when Diana Ross was frisked at a UK airport years ago, she said the woman was ignorant, rough, and actually touched her up....anyway, she retaliated by slapping her, she was arrested.
As I have a knee replacement I am frisked every time I go abroad....and some of those women are dead bloody ignorant, so I can sympathise with the way Ross acted..

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:I have never heard anyone say they are proud to be a woman.
Heard the expression...proud to be a black woman a lot.

Diana Ross claimed this decades ago, I totally got where she was coming from.

It doesn't have the same effect now...too overused.

I disagree with that.  Why, even now ABC is promoting it's special on women in the upcoming 9-11 anniversary: Women of 9/11: A Special Edition of 20/20 With Robin Roberts.  In addition, there are hundreds of women-oriented clubs & sites, starting with Girl's Inc. and Girl's Leadership.  Look at 'em all:  https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/resources-for-educators/girls-equity-and-empowerment-resource-list  All of these promote pride in womanhood.

Empowering other woman has nothing to do with pride.
The fact is women have been downtrodden by men in many societies for generations....if they are now fighting back, well, good, promoting women and helping them to achieve has nothing to do with pride.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I disagree with that.  Why, even now ABC is promoting it's special on women in the upcoming 9-11 anniversary: Women of 9/11: A Special Edition of 20/20 With Robin Roberts.  In addition, there are hundreds of women-oriented clubs & sites, starting with Girl's Inc. and Girl's Leadership.  Look at 'em all:  https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/resources-for-educators/girls-equity-and-empowerment-resource-list  All of these promote pride in womanhood.

Empowering other woman has nothing to do with pride.
The fact is women have been downtrodden by men in many societies for generations....if they are now fighting back, well, good, promoting women and helping them to achieve has nothing to do with pride.

I beg to differ. Those groups and programs are a celebration of past achievements, and they exist and are promoted to provide opportunities for future women to be empowered. Have you ever been to a girl scout's meeting? It's not a static picture, but a process in motion...this time an achievement, and next time an inspiration.

Well then you are saying they are proud of their achievements, which is a different thing to  saying they are proud of the simple fact that they are women.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Empowering other woman has nothing to do with pride.
The fact is women have been downtrodden by men in many societies for generations....if they are now fighting back, well, good, promoting women and helping them to achieve has nothing to do with pride.

I beg to differ.  Those groups and programs are a celebration of past achievements, and they exist and are promoted to provide opportunities for future women to be empowered.  ]Have you ever been to a girl scout's meeting?  It's not a static picture, but a process in motion...this time an achievement, and next time an inspiration.

and you know this because of all the girl scouts meetings you have attended?

sorry couldn't resist that one

gelico wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I beg to differ.  Those groups and programs are a celebration of past achievements, and they exist and are promoted to provide opportunities for future women to be empowered.  ]Have you ever been to a girl scout's meeting?  It's not a static picture, but a process in motion...this time an achievement, and next time an inspiration.

and you know this because of all the girl scouts meetings you have attended?

sorry couldn't resist that one

Haha...  That's all right.  It's a fair question.  I know this because I have had three daughters.

Also, in my younger day I was a member of the Boy Scouts, briefly...and for a longer period, the Sea Scouts.  I was a member of the bridge crew on our SS Ship, and earned several scout badges in navigation, signaling and sailing (as opposed to power cruising).

Here's my SS Ship, today.  

https://pt-br.facebook.com/pg/sssnorthland/community/?ref=page_internal or https://www.facebook.com/sssnorthland/  

She used to be birthed at the Berkeley Marina.  Now I see she has moved up the road to Richmond Marina.

If you said you'd been to Tenerife... Quill would say he's been to elevenerife...

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Diana Ross was a twat to Florence Ballard.  I can't stand the woman.

I like her.....and i think anyone who has been frisked by a hatchet faced harridan at  any airport, understands and admires the way Diana Ross retaliated.

What has that to do with Florence Ballard?

Tommy Monk wrote:



If you said you'd been to Tenerife... Quill would say he's been to elevenerife...

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Really, just that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of things you had no control over, like being born a certain race, or from a certain country, etc. And that movements like gay pride and black pride are more an overreaction by people who've been told to be ashamed of being gay or black, rather than feeling legitimately proud of being born that way.

Aren’t white people these days, made to feel ashamed of being white, ie white guilt? So can’t we have white pride on that basis? Just asking....following on from that logic.

We could even have a Glasses Matters movement? Short-sighted people can’t help it and can be bullied for wearing glasses.  

This is a very interesting point and as to why we are seeing a correlation with critical race theory. Which teaches white people to feel ashamed of their skin colour. To that of queer theory

We are seeing a vastly large number of white middle class teens and young adults coming out with a multitude of new gender identities through queer theory. One I saw the other day was so angry. Who was clearly a biological female who identified as non-binary, stated she was in a lesbian relationship. With a male, who also identified as non-binary. She was angry because people said that is not a lesbian relationship. Claimed she was queer and so was he

It seems a view to many white middle class white kids feel ashamed of who they are. Is leading a large number to identify into what is seen as an unprivileged category, that of either numerous new types of gender identity or the even crazier number of new made up sexual orientations. Which they are not sexual orientations at all, but preferences. 

This is where critical race theory and queer theory is screwing up the minds of kids, to the view they feel so ashamed of their skin colour. That they do not want to be associated with the socially constructed category of white

If teaching people to be proud of who they are through an identity is wrong. Then it also is as bad (taught by the woke far left) by teaching kids to be ashamed of who they are. Its why many identify as something else that is viewed through the absurd and abreitray identity politics of privilege.

Hence they can claim to be viewed as less privileged, even if in the category of white. You will see in their bios, CRT, Queer theory, pronouns, Marxism etc

This is what is so harmful absurd about identity politics and the poor view of categorizing groups based on an arbitrary privilege system

Its simple replacing the old class system with an even more dumber system, that will end up discriminating groups categorised and deemed the most privileged

didge wrote:This is a very interesting point and as to why we are seeing a correlation with critical race theory. Which teaches white people to feel ashamed of their skin colour.

I don't think there is any such thing as white folks who feel ashamed of their color. All I see are white folks who consider themselves lucky to not be black.

Can you give an actual example? I don't mean is some psychoanalytic construct, but in RL.

Original Quill wrote:

didge wrote:This is a very interesting point and as to why we are seeing a correlation with critical race theory. Which teaches white people to feel ashamed of their skin colour.

I don't think there is any such thing as white folks who feel ashamed of their color.  All I see are white folks who consider themselves lucky to not be black.

Can you give an actual example?  I don't mean is some psychoanalytic construct, but in RL.

You should learn how to operate the internet. Lots of useful information put there.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2019/08/08/rosanna-arquette-feels-so-much-shame-over-being-white-privileged/1962475001/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/underdog-psychology/202007/why-white-shame-is-term-everyone-should-learn

https://theracecardproject.com/im-white-feel-ashamed/

Pay attention, hayseed. "Can you give an actual example? I don't mean is some psychoanalytic construct, but in RL."

Original Quill wrote:Pay attention, hayseed.  "Can you give an actual example?  I don't mean is some psychoanalytic construct, but in RL."

Try reading all 3 links.

Or go fuck yourself.

Your call.