As US Schools Prioritize Diversity Over Merit, China Is Becoming the World’s STEM Leader

All three of us are mathematicians who came to the United States as young immigrants, having been attracted by the unmatched quality and openness of American universities. We came, as many others before and after, with nothing more than a good education and a strong desire to succeed. As David Hilbert famously said, “Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country.” Having built our careers in US academia, we are proud to call ourselves American mathematicians.

The United States has been dominant in the mathematical sciences since the mass exodus of European scientists in the 1930s. Because mathematics is the basis of science—as well as virtually all major technological advances, including scientific computing, climate modelling, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, and robotics—US leadership in math has supplied our country with an enormous strategic advantage. But for various reasons, three of which we set out below, the United States is now at risk of losing that dominant position.

First, and most obvious, is the deplorable state of our K-12 math education system. Far too few American public-school children are prepared for careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM). This leaves us increasingly dependent on a constant inflow of foreign talent, especially from mainland China, Taiwan, South Korea, and India. In a 2015 survey conducted by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board, about 55 percent of all participating graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences, and engineering at US schools were found to be foreign nationals. In 2017, the National Foundation for American Policy estimated that international students accounted for 81 percent of full-time graduate students in electrical engineering at U.S. universities; and 79 percent of full-time graduate students in computer science.

That report also concluded that many programs in these fields couldn’t even be maintained without international students. In our field, mathematics, we find that at most top departments in the United States, at least two-thirds of the faculty are foreign born. (And even among those faculty born in the United States, a large portion are first-generation Americans.) Similar patterns may be observed in other STEM disciplines.

The second reason for concern is that the nationwide effort to reduce racial disparities, however well-intentioned, has had the unfortunate effect of weakening the connection between merit and scholastic admission. It also has served (sometimes indirectly) to discriminate against certain groups—mainly Asian Americans. The social-justice rhetoric used to justify these diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs is often completely at odds with the reality one observes on campuses. The concept of fighting “white supremacy,” in particular, doesn’t apply to the math field, since American-born scholars of all races now collectively represent a small (and diminishing) minority of the country’s academic STEM specialists.

Third, other countries are now competing aggressively with the United States to recruit top talent, using the same policies that worked well for us in the past. Most notably, China, America’s main economic and strategic competitor, is in the midst of an extraordinary, mostly successful, effort to improve its universities and research institutions. As a result, it is now able to retain some of the best Chinese scientists and engineers, as well as attract elite recruits from the United States, Europe, and beyond.

In a 2018 report published by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), China ranked first in mathematical proficiency among 15-year-olds, while the United States was in 25th place. And a recent large-scale study of adults’ cognitive abilities, conducted by the National Center for Education Statistics, found that many Americans lack the basic skills in math and reading required for successful participation in the economy. This poor performance can’t be explained by budgetary factors: When it comes to education spending per pupil, the United States ranks fifth among 37 developed OECD nations.

https://quillette.com/2021/08/19/as-us-schools-prioritize-diversity-over-merit-china-is-becoming-the-worlds-stem-leader/

More to read on the link

This is what happens when you allow extreme social justice woke, to take over a schooling system
I pity the present young and future generations in the US being fed a diet of this nonsense, which is ruining their education system

Becoming?

I think that ship has sailed. We are good at redefining pronouns though.

First, nonsense.  The state of our K-12 math education system is fine.  Second, “the nationwide effort to reduce racial disparities” is not weakening the link “between merit and scholastic admission”; this makes the common racist assumption that certain races are not capable of scholastic achievement.  Third, the fact that “other countries are now competing aggressively with the United States to recruit top talent” is of no moment, especially if you maintain that there is a universal measure of merit.

The lack of achievement of certain races is not due to innate racial characteristics.  It is due to artificial constraints put upon certain races in the beginning, and still going.  If it’s artificial to supplant existing meritorious measures with measures to increase equity, it is certainly artificial to keep in place measures to suppress equity in the name of false merit.  The argument is based upon balance.  The very essence of efforts to achieve equity is to return the balance to an even keel.  So, the argument works in reverse if you interrupt the order to create inequity; you must again interrupt the order to restore it.  You do this by removing the artificial constraints that put us in a state of inequity in the first place.

The analogy to math is inept.  The fact is that all races, with the same cultural background, and with the same chance at educational achievement, will reach the same exact sum of the equation in math.  The battle is rarely, if ever, over math or medicine.  Rather, we set up these arguments over hard sciences as strawmen, while we apply these arguments against equity…over whether, for example, race history should be taught in our schools, or if poverty is a proper discussion for a civics class.  In other words, we actually argue over whether the same corruption of education should be maintained, and make the argument for equity the villain.

Original Quill wrote:First, nonsense.  The state of our K-12 math education system is fine.  Second, “the nationwide effort to reduce racial disparities” is not weakening the link “between merit and scholastic admission”; this makes the common racist assumption that certain races are not capable of scholastic achievement.  Third, the fact that “other countries are now competing aggressively with the United States to recruit top talent” is of no moment, especially if you maintain that there is a universal measure of merit.

The lack of achievement of certain races is not due to innate racial characteristics.  It is due to artificial constraints put upon certain races in the beginning, and still going.  If it’s artificial to supplant existing meritorious measures with measures to increase equity, it is certainly artificial to keep in place measures to suppress equity in the name of false merit.  The argument is based upon balance.  The very essence of efforts to achieve equity is to return the balance to an even keel.  So, the argument works in reverse if you interrupt the order to create inequity; you must again interrupt the order to restore it.  You do this by removing the artificial constraints that put us in a state of inequity in the first place.

The analogy to math is inept.  The fact is that all races, with the same cultural background, and with the same chance at educational achievement, will reach the same exact sum of the equation in math.  The battle is rarely, if ever, over math or medicine.  Rather, we set up these arguments over hard sciences as strawmen, while we apply these arguments against equity…over whether, for example, race history should be taught in our schools, or if poverty is a proper discussion for a civics class.  In other words, we actually argue over whether the same corruption of education should be maintained, and make the argument for equity the villain.

Why are wealthier white people doing worse than poorer Asians?

"First, and most obvious, is the deplorable state of our K-12 math education system. Far too few American public-school children are prepared for careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM). This leaves us increasingly dependent on a constant inflow of foreign talent, especially from mainland China, Taiwan, South Korea, and India."


Must be Asian privilege.

Causation???  The western students are being prepared just fine.  All too many ignorant people don't get the difference between technical training, and broader scientific training.  The Asian schools emphasize technical over scientific training, and so provide no education on how to apply the science they learn.

We do more.  The technocrats have to be cocooned at the workplace, because they don't know how to integrate their knowledge into the greater world.  I'd rather have a fully prepared student, instead of churning out over-trained, but underprepared technocrats.

Original Quill wrote:Causation???  The western students are being prepared just fine.  All too many ignorant people don't get the difference between technical training, and broader scientific training.  The Asian schools emphasize technical over scientific training, and so provide no education on how to apply the science they learn.

We do more.  The technocrats have to be cocooned at the workplace, because they don't know how to integrate their knowledge into the greater world.  I'd rather have a fully prepared student, instead of churning out over-trained, but underprepared technocrats.

So you're not worried about Americans falling behind in the STEM classes.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

Oh, and the Asians are getting educated here, because not enough gringos are entering the graduate programs.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Causation???  The western students are being prepared just fine.  All too many ignorant people don't get the difference between technical training, and broader scientific training.  The Asian schools emphasize technical over scientific training, and so provide no education on how to apply the science they learn.

We do more.  The technocrats have to be cocooned at the workplace, because they don't know how to integrate their knowledge into the greater world.  I'd rather have a fully prepared student, instead of churning out over-trained, but underprepared technocrats.

So you're not worried about Americans falling behind in the STEM classes.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

Oh, and the Asians are getting educated here, because not enough gringos are entering the graduate programs.  

Americans are ahead, not behind. It's all in what is tested for.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

So you're not worried about Americans falling behind in the STEM classes.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

Oh, and the Asians are getting educated here, because not enough gringos are entering the graduate programs.  

Americans are ahead, not behind.  It's all in what is tested for.

Americans aren't even fucking present, let alone being tested.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Americans are ahead, not behind.  It's all in what is tested for.

Americans aren't even fucking present, let alone being tested.

That's because they're ahead. Why use ancient standards, for what is advanced education?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Americans aren't even fucking present, let alone being tested.

That's because they're ahead.  Why use ancient standards, for what is advanced education?

Again, STEM classes don't matter to you.

That doesn't change the fact that Americans are falling behind. It just means that you don't find them important.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's because they're ahead.  Why use ancient standards, for what is advanced education?

Again, STEM classes don't matter to you.  

That doesn't change the fact that Americans are falling behind. It just means that you don't find them important.  

I was a member of the Rutgers University admissions committee, and chair of the admissions standards admissions sub-committee.  I wrote the book on what standards qualify for university admissions.  I know exactly how stultifying a traditional standards array can be...Asians included.

STEM integrates certain subjects into a cohesive learning paradigm based on real-world applications, but like all such programs it falls behind in human values.  As my brother (PhD in math) says, we can do a lot of things, but without learning in values we don't know what we want.  

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Again, STEM classes don't matter to you.  

That doesn't change the fact that Americans are falling behind. It just means that you don't find them important.  

I was a member of the Rutgers University admissions committee, and chair of the admissions standards admissions sub-committee.  I wrote the book on what standards qualify for university admissions.  I know exactly how stultifying a traditional standards array can be...Asians included.

STEM integrates certain subjects into a cohesive learning paradigm based on real-world applications, but like all such programs it falls behind in human values.  As my brother (PhD in math) says, we can do a lot of things, but without learning in values we don't know what we want.  

You're a fucking liar and a fantasist..

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I was a member of the Rutgers University admissions committee, and chair of the admissions standards admissions sub-committee.  I wrote the book on what standards qualify for university admissions.  I know exactly how stultifying a traditional standards array can be...Asians included.

STEM integrates certain subjects into a cohesive learning paradigm based on real-world applications, but like all such programs it falls behind in human values.  As my brother (PhD in math) says, we can do a lot of things, but without learning in values we don't know what we want.  

You're a fucking liar and a fantasist..

Well...that lowered the level. But then, you never could get out of the gutter.

Is that a southern thing?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You're a fucking liar and a fantasist..

Well...that lowered the level.  But then, you never could get out of the gutter.

Is that a southern thing?  

It's an honesty thing Walter.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Well...that lowered the level.  But then, you never could get out of the gutter.

Is that a southern thing?  

It's an honesty thing Walter.

No, it's a destructive thing, Red. Probably what your wife faced...and she dumped yur ass. Have you ever tried reason, instead of tantrums and violence?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's an honesty thing Walter.

No, it's a destructive thing, Red.  Probably what your wife faced...and she dumped yur ass.  Have you ever tried reason, instead of tantrums and violence?

"Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life. In a few dozen paragraphs, he imagines himself a wartime pilot, an emergency-room surgeon, and a devil-may-care killer. Although the story has humorous elements, there is a darker and more significant message underlying the text, leading to a more tragic interpretation of the Mitty character. Even in his heroic daydreams, Mitty does not triumph, several fantasies being interrupted before the final one sees Mitty dying bravely in front of a firing squad. In the brief snatches of reality that punctuate Mitty's fantasies, the reader meets well-meaning but insensitive strangers who inadvertently rob Mitty of some of his remaining dignity."

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:First, nonsense.  The state of our K-12 math education system is fine.  Second, “the nationwide effort to reduce racial disparities” is not weakening the link “between merit and scholastic admission”; this makes the common racist assumption that certain races are not capable of scholastic achievement.  Third, the fact that “other countries are now competing aggressively with the United States to recruit top talent” is of no moment, especially if you maintain that there is a universal measure of merit.

The lack of achievement of certain races is not due to innate racial characteristics.  It is due to artificial constraints put upon certain races in the beginning, and still going.  If it’s artificial to supplant existing meritorious measures with measures to increase equity, it is certainly artificial to keep in place measures to suppress equity in the name of false merit.  The argument is based upon balance.  The very essence of efforts to achieve equity is to return the balance to an even keel.  So, the argument works in reverse if you interrupt the order to create inequity; you must again interrupt the order to restore it.  You do this by removing the artificial constraints that put us in a state of inequity in the first place.

The analogy to math is inept.  The fact is that all races, with the same cultural background, and with the same chance at educational achievement, will reach the same exact sum of the equation in math.  The battle is rarely, if ever, over math or medicine.  Rather, we set up these arguments over hard sciences as strawmen, while we apply these arguments against equity…over whether, for example, race history should be taught in our schools, or if poverty is a proper discussion for a civics class.  In other words, we actually argue over whether the same corruption of education should be maintained, and make the argument for equity the villain.

Why are wealthier white people doing worse than poorer Asians?

That’s pretty much how it is over here, I think.

The undercurrent to this thread is really ugly -- it seems to be pitting tolerance, and the desire to help people from races that have faced discrimination, against academic achievement -- as though, as Quill pointed out, the verdict is in, white people and East Asians are the two smartest races, and we'd be better off just accepting that as fact.

Overall, Quillette.com seems bent on proving that academia is a right-winger's nightmare of young, bright people being subjected to some sort of fantasy of left-wing indoctrination. It seems only to exist to flog the same general agenda point, over and over.

Sigh. There are two sides to every judgment: 1) the standards by which one is judged; and 2) the result. Asians and whites have a high result by the white man's standards.

However, by a black man's standard they both would score a very low result.

Standardized tests discriminate.

Ben Reilly wrote:The undercurrent to this thread is really ugly -- it seems to be pitting tolerance, and the desire to help people from races that have faced discrimination, against academic achievement -- as though, as Quill pointed out, the verdict is in, white people and East Asians are the two smartest races, and we'd be better off just accepting that as fact.

Overall, Quillette.com seems bent on proving that academia is a right-winger's nightmare of young, bright people being subjected to some sort of fantasy of left-wing indoctrination. It seems only to exist to flog the same general agenda point, over and over.

There is no smarter race. That's nonsense.

There are different cultures that result in different results.

Asians have been marginalized like any other group of immigrants. Their culture was more than enough to offset that. Their culture values a STEM type education, therefore they flourish.

"In a 2015 survey conducted by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board, about 55 percent of all participating graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences, and engineering at US schools were found to be foreign nationals."

Why is this true?^

Maddog wrote: "In a 2015 survey conducted by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board, about 55 percent of all participating graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences, and engineering at US schools were found to be foreign nationals."

Why is this true?^

The emphasis in their own nations is more primitive, emphasizing old-world, tangible values, which find their way in STEM programs. In other words, it goes right back to mom saying you will be a hero if you become a engineer, mathematician or a computer programmer.

The upshot of that is, more foreign students try to enter, and achieve in STEM programs, and end up flooding American graduate programs (where the money is).

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote: "In a 2015 survey conducted by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board, about 55 percent of all participating graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences, and engineering at US schools were found to be foreign nationals."

Why is this true?^

The emphasis in their own nations is more primitive, emphasizing old-world, tangible values, which find their way in STEM programs.  In other words, it goes right back to mom saying you will be a hero if you become a engineer, mathematician or a computer programmer.

The upshot of that is, more foreign students try to enter, and achieve in STEM programs, and end up flooding American graduate programs (where the money is).

Ah,, they are more primitive.

OK.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The emphasis in their own nations is more primitive, emphasizing old-world, tangible values, which find their way in STEM programs. In other words, it goes right back to mom saying you will be a hero if you become a engineer, mathematician or a computer programmer.

The upshot of that is, more foreign students try to enter, and achieve in STEM programs, and end up flooding American graduate programs (where the money is).

Ah,, they are more primitive.

OK.

That's your thesis. "Primitive" is a loaded word, and I wouldn't use it. Southerners often fall into easy equivalencies like that, as they are not quite as keen to language as northerners.

"Old world" is a better term...as it suggests that there is a certain (neutral) progression to modernization. When we go from an agricultural existence to a technological existence, we progress both as to the technology, and as well, the values, beliefs and symbols associated with the new life.

To an agrarian people, they are dazzled by new technologies…and they say, I want my son/daughter to study how to do that!. Hence, STEM courses are the attractor. But, along with the new values is an awareness that we import standards along with our achievements. It’s only after-the-fact that we recognize that standards must be up-graded too.

We are here; they are there.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:


Ah,, they are more primitive.

OK.

That's your thesis.  "Primitive" is a loaded word, and I wouldn't use it.  Southerners often fall into easy equivalencies like that, as they are not quite as keen to language as northerners.

"Old world" is a better term...as it suggests that there is a certain (neutral) progression to modernization.  When we go from an agricultural existence to a technological existence, we progress both as to the technology, and as well, the values, beliefs and symbols associated with the new life.

To an agrarian people, they are dazzled by new technologies…and they say, I want my son/daughter to study how to do that!.  Hence, STEM courses are the attractor.  But, along with the new values is an awareness that we import standards along with our achievements.  It’s only after-the-fact that we recognize that standards must be up-graded too.

We are here; they are there.

You could have said they come from shithole countries like Trump.

You're an arrogant, elitist prick.

And I'm not even sure you are aware of it.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's your thesis.  "Primitive" is a loaded word, and I wouldn't use it.  Southerners often fall into easy equivalencies like that, as they are not quite as keen to language as northerners.

"Old world" is a better term...as it suggests that there is a certain (neutral) progression to modernization.  When we go from an agricultural existence to a technological existence, we progress both as to the technology, and as well, the values, beliefs and symbols associated with the new life.

To an agrarian people, they are dazzled by new technologies…and they say, I want my son/daughter to study how to do that!.  Hence, STEM courses are the attractor.  But, along with the new values is an awareness that we import standards along with our achievements.  It’s only after-the-fact that we recognize that standards must be up-graded too.

We are here; they are there.

You could have said they come from shithole countries like Trump.

You're an arrogant, elitist prick.  

And I'm not even sure you are aware of it.

And you are a dumb, fukin, racist, violent, slob southerner. But who you are won't solve this issue.

Few other countries are as advanced as the UK and the northern US. Christ sake...we have been to the moon and back, and have AI sitting on the surface of Mars right now. To deny that, only a stupid southerner would try.

Now, imagine you are a mum in an agrarian society, looking at all the achievements that the UK and the US have made. Wouldn't you encourage your son or daughter to emulate that? Of course you would.

And that's why STEM courses at university get such emphasis with foreign students...with the parents as well as the students. You've got to be a dummy to ignore that.

Opps...I forgot. You are a dummy.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You could have said they come from shithole countries like Trump.

You're an arrogant, elitist prick.  

And I'm not even sure you are aware of it.

And you are a dumb, fukin, racist, violent, slob southerner.  But who you are won't solve this issue.

Few other countries are as advanced as the UK and the northern US.  Christ sake...we have been to the moon and back, and have AI sitting on the surface of Mars right now.  To deny that, only a stupid southerner would try.

Now, imagine you are a mum in an agrarian society, looking at all the achievements that the UK and the US have made.  Wouldn't you encourage your son or daughter to emulate that?  Of course you would.

And that's why STEM courses at university get such emphasis with foreign students...with the parents as well as the students.  You've got to be a dummy to ignore that.

Opps...I forgot.  You are a dummy.  

So the title of the thread is correct and that's fine with you.

Why not simply say that and move on?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And you are a dumb, fukin, racist, violent, slob southerner.  But who you are won't solve this issue.

Few other countries are as advanced as the UK and the northern US.  Christ sake...we have been to the moon and back, and have AI sitting on the surface of Mars right now.  To deny that, only a stupid southerner would try.

Now, imagine you are a mum in an agrarian society, looking at all the achievements that the UK and the US have made.  Wouldn't you encourage your son or daughter to emulate that?  Of course you would.

And that's why STEM courses at university get such emphasis with foreign students...with the parents as well as the students.  You've got to be a dummy to ignore that.

Opps...I forgot.  You are a dummy.  

So the title of the thread is correct and that's fine with you.

Why not simply say that and move on?  

Why do you insist on continually telling people what to say in their posts? Does authoritarianism run in the southern blood? Is that why Georgia, Texas and Arizona are eliminating democracy as a prerequisite for American government?

The title of the thread is inapt anymore, as you have taken the subject far, far astray. What you really dislike is any attempt at equalizing arbitrary standards, and that is where you directed the thread from the start.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

So the title of the thread is correct and that's fine with you.

Why not simply say that and move on?  

Why do you insist on continually telling people what to say in their posts?  Does authoritarianism run in the southern blood?  Is that why Georgia, Texas and Arizona are eliminating democracy as a prerequisite for American government?

The title of the thread is inapt anymore, as you have taken the subject far, far astray.  What you really dislike is any attempt at equalizing arbitrary standards, and that is where you directed the thread from the start.

Are foreign students becoming the leaders in STEM courses?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Why do you insist on continually telling people what to say in their posts?  Does authoritarianism run in the southern blood?  Is that why Georgia, Texas and Arizona are eliminating democracy as a prerequisite for American government?

The title of the thread is inapt anymore, as you have taken the subject far, far astray.  What you really dislike is any attempt at equalizing arbitrary standards, and that is where you directed the thread from the start.

Are foreign students becoming the leaders in STEM courses?

Who cares? STEM is old school.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Are foreign students becoming the leaders in STEM courses?

Who cares?  STEM is old school.

This would have been perfect, if it was your first post.

But you felt the need ramble and spew nonsense.

I know you don't care and it knew it from the beginning.

You should have said as much and then shut the fuck up.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Who cares?  STEM is old school.

This would have been perfect, if it was your first post.

But you felt the need ramble and spew nonsense.

I know you don't care and it knew it from the beginning.  

You should have said as much and then shut the fuck up.

It's not about me, Red. And I don't care about the argumentative nonsense you care about. If you want to have a discussion about 'academic disciplinary standards', we can discuss it another time.

Right now, this place reeks from your attempts to make this a 'pissing match'.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

This would have been perfect, if it was your first post.

But you felt the need ramble and spew nonsense.

I know you don't care and it knew it from the beginning.  

You should have said as much and then shut the fuck up.

It's not about me, Red.  And I don't care about the argumentative nonsense you care about.  If you want to have a discussion about 'academic disciplinary standards', we can discuss it another time.

Right now, this place reeks from your attempts to make this a 'pissing match'.

Haha.

You said you don't care about the topic.

Shut the fuck up and prove it.

To respond would be gratuitous.