Six people dead in Plymouth shooting.

News reports that three females and three men, including the gunman, are dead.
It is not thought to be terror related

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/12/plymouth-shooting-serious-shooting-incident-one-feared-dead/

Unconfirmed reports say that a mother and her five year old  daughter are amongst the victims.

Tragic.

Sounds like he killed himself before the cops arrived.  I guess the silver lining is it could have been worse if he didn't blow his brains out and kept shooting instead.  

Seems like this was a family deal. He killed everyone he wanted to and then killed himself.

Plymouth gunman Jake Davison said 'I am a terminator' in final YouTube video before death
By Jack Hardy ; Bill Gardner and Izzy Lyons, Crime Correspondent
7 - 8 minutes

Jake Davison was obsessed with the fact that he didn't have a girlfriend and ascribed to the so-called 'blackpill' movement

The suspected Plymouth shooter described being “defeated by life” in videos recorded just weeks before the massacre, as he blamed his troubles on not having a girlfriend.

Jake Davison, a 23-year-old apprentice crane operator, described himself on his YouTube channel as an ‘incel’ and made references to the ‘blackpill’ philosophy to which the radical fringe group subscribes.

An apparent gun obsession was also apparent from a playlist of videos compiled by Davison.

In his final video blog, on July 28, the suspected killer spends 11 minutes ranting about how his life has hit a dead end, as he struggles to attract women or lose weight.

“I’m beaten down and defeated by f****** life, that drive I once had, that’s gone,” he says.

At the climax of his final video blog, Davison claims he likes to think “I’m a Terminator”.

He continues: “The whole premise of the Terminator movies is that you know everything is rigged against you, there's no hope for humanity, you know, we're on the brink of extinction, these machines are unstoppable killing machines that can't be beaten, can't be outsmarted, but yet humanity still tries to fight to the end.

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“I know it's a movie, but, you know, I like to think sometimes I'm a Terminator or something and despite reaching almost total system failure, he keeps trying to accomplish his mission.”

Davison earlier claims that “most people would have been completely, utterly broken if they had lived my f****** life”.

Despite insisting he was not trying to stage a “pity party”, Davison goes on to claim the only way his life would be worse would be if he had suffered sexually abuse.

“For the most part, it’s just been me against the world, it’s just been me fighting an uphill battle with a big f****** rock on my back, while I’m seeing motherf****** that don’t deserve half of anything, they’re getting a free road to the top,” he says.

He describes working in construction scaffolding as a teenager, when he felt positive about life - he was “finally going to move out...get my passport...do all the things I wanted to do in life”.

This all changed, he complains, after he suffered an ankle injury. He says he struggled to recover from the setback in the way other men, like professional fighters, would.

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“I always keep trying but it's like I'm at the point now where it's like, why do I even bother? For what? I'm still in the same house, same situation, same position, still everything's the same,” he says.

He ruefully reflects that other men have wives and children to support them.

“Does an incel, a virgin get that? No,” he continues.

"I'm socially isolated have no social circle and don't know any girls. Been in male dominated environments most my life. Last girl I spoke to was when i was 18 years old unless you count cashiers and supermarkets."

Comments made by Davison below his YouTube videos further espouse the worldviews of an incel, short for involuntary celibate.

Jake Davison
In one online comment, Davison (pictured), who is a weightlifter, said he had been 'consuming the blackpill overdose'

The subculture is made up of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually. Their views are characterised by deep misogyny and hostility towards the opposite sex.

In one online comment, Davison, who is a weightlifter, said he had been “consuming the blackpill overdose”.

The blackpill, named as an alternative to the so-called bluepill and redpill in the Matrix films, is a fatalist outlook centred on the belief that success with the opposite sex is determined at by genetics at birth.

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According to one article online, blackpillers believe that no amount of working out (gymmaxxing), earning money (betabuxxing), or sexual strategy (running game) will ever lead to a relationship. They believe there is nothing left to do but to commit suicide (rope) or lay down and rot (LDAR).

Davison says in one YouTube comment beneath his own video: “The blackpill makes you looks (sic) obsessed I never used to be this way the longer you go without any kind of interaction with women and sex relationships etc etc the more you become concerned about looks but blackpill turbo charges it.”

In another video, uploaded three weeks before the shooting, Davison goes on a 10-minute misogynistic rant about biological attraction.

He accuses most women of being “very simple-minded” and only being drawn to attractive men.

“The reality is, and, this is my view, I think a big proportion of people don't realize that black pill doesn't just apply to incels guys, it applies to a lot of guys these days not having sex for six months, for a year,” he says.

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He then continues, in a particularly shocking outburst: “Why do you think sexual assaults and all these things keep rising? The reality is that women don't need men no more and they certainly don't want and don't need average men and below average, you have to go abroad to fund a woman.”



Over several years, Davison had liked nearly 800 videos on YouTube which point to an obsession with US gun culture and the second amendment, violent video games, and heavy weight lifting.

In several videos, YouTube personalities from the US take the viewer through various gun demonstrations, including shooting a teddy bear and an SUV vehicle with a rifle and 20mm bullets.

One video from the US gun show includes a salesman showing off a pistol inspired by the former US President Donald Trump. The gun, which was being sold for $3,000, had 'make america great again' inscribed on its side.

Aside from a clear fascination with firearms, Davison also watched a vast range of videos on weightlifting and dieting, including one clip titled 'Why Am I Fat?'.

His obsession with his weight and looks appears rooted in a misogynistic desire for a girlfriend, with several of the videos he liked asking “why women always lie” and “why toxic masculinity is a lie”.

One video looks at “why some hot women date down” and “why she dates a fat man”.

Davison also liked a clip from a video game which was shared on YouTube in Jan 2015, where the male character says he is “looking for a whore”.

Incel culture has been associated with a string of killings and acts of violence, particularly in the US.

Elliot Rodger, 22, became a spiritual figurehead of the incel movement when he murdered six people in Isla Vista, California, in 2014.

Before his deadly rampage, Rodger had uploaded a YouTube video outlining his attack and motives in which he said he wanted to take revenge on women for rejecting him.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/13/plymouth-shooting-gunman-said-terminator-final-youtube-video/

https://twitter.com/i/status/1425901218409365509


This vid shows one of the dead under a sheet with police standing by.

He was obviously an explosion waiting to happen.
It seems it was women and the world at large he hated. A poor child also seems to have got in the way...unless he deliberately targeted her with the family for reasons unknown as yet.

Maddog wrote:Sounds like he killed himself before the cops arrived.  I guess the silver lining is it could have been worse if he didn't blow his brains out and kept shooting instead.  

Seems like this was a family deal. He killed everyone he wanted to and then killed himself.

More often than not in this kind of scenario it's the ex husband/partner who seeks revenge on the woman he feels has ruined his life, so he kills her and the kids, to have the final say.
Not so in this case....this loner had no ex or kids.


https://news.sky.com/story/plymouth-shooting-police-say-very-young-girl-among-the-five-shot-dead-by-jake-davison-12380282

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:Sounds like he killed himself before the cops arrived.  I guess the silver lining is it could have been worse if he didn't blow his brains out and kept shooting instead.  

Seems like this was a family deal. He killed everyone he wanted to and then killed himself.

More often than not in this kind of scenario it's the ex husband/partner who seeks revenge on the woman he feels has ruined his life, so he kills her and the kids, to have the final say.
Not so in this case....this loner had no ex or kids.


https://news.sky.com/story/plymouth-shooting-police-say-very-young-girl-among-the-five-shot-dead-by-jake-davison-12380282

I thought he was related to some of the victims?


Anyway, there are a lot of folks suffering a little more that usual because of this virus. Murder and suicides are way up over here. I'm sure the problems are more complex than simply Covid, but it's not helping..

Poor folks, especially that little girl. What's going through your mind when you raise and aim your shotgun at a little girl?

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

More often than not in this kind of scenario it's the ex husband/partner who seeks revenge on the woman he feels has ruined his life, so he kills her and the kids, to have the final say.
Not so in this case....this loner had no ex or kids.


https://news.sky.com/story/plymouth-shooting-police-say-very-young-girl-among-the-five-shot-dead-by-jake-davison-12380282

I thought he was related to some of the victims?


Anyway, there are a lot of folks suffering a little more that usual because of this virus.  Murder and suicides are way up over here.  I'm sure the problems are more complex than simply Covid, but it's not helping..

Poor folks, especially that little girl. What's going through your mind when you raise and aim your shotgun at a little girl?

He killed his own mother first.
The little girl was only three years old...what a horrible tragedy.

I can understand people are suffering, I can understand people wanting to kill themselves, I just dont get why they want to take others with them.
Like you say...who knows what is going through their minds, especially when the gun is aimed at a 3 year old little girl.



"The mother of the Plymouth gunman, Maxine Davison, and three-year-old Sophie Martyn have been named among the five victims of his shooting spree.

Ms Davison, 51, was shot and killed by her 22-year-old son Jake Davison at her home on Biddick Drive, Plymouth, on Thursday evening.

Davison went on to kill three-year-old Sophie, her father Lee Martyn, 43, Stephen Washington and Kate Shepherd.

His attack lasted about six minutes before he turned the gun on himself.

In online videos Davison spoke of being "beaten down" and "defeated by life".

All of those who died lived in the Keyham area of Plymouth, Devon and Cornwall Police said.

Officers are continuing to investigate 13 scenes within a cordon that is expected to remain in place throughout much of the weekend.

Having killed his mother, Davison left the property and immediately shot and killed Mr Martyn and his daughter on the street.

Stephen Washington, 59, was also killed, along with Kate Shepherd, 66, who was injured at the scene and died later at Derriford Hospital."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58206101

The latest on Sky news.

Seems that 22 year old Jake Davison kicked down the door of the house, where , for whatever reason, he  shot his own mother dead.

Police say this case was unusual, as Davison then left the house and started shooting randomly, first the little girl and her dad, then a woman in her 50's , then a man in his 60's, none of these victims are thought to be connected to Davison.....he then turned the gun on himself.

He was licensed to carry the gun, investigations are beginning as to how an obviously disturbed young man was allowed to have gun licence.

Syl wrote:The latest on Sky news.

Seems that 22 year old Jake Davison kicked down the door of the house, where , for whatever reason, he  shot his own mother dead.

Police say this case was unusual, as Davison then left the house and started shooting randomly, first the little girl and her dad, then a woman in her 50's , then a man in his 60's, none of these victims are thought to be connected to Davison.....he then turned the gun on himself.

He was licensed to carry the gun, investigations are beginning as to how an obviously disturbed young man was allowed to have gun licence.

Unfortunately, disturbed people don't identify as or act disturbed until it's too late.

Seemingly normal people can go off the rails pretty quickly before anyone really notices..

Also, they will hide any problems if there is a chance they will lose rights (like a firearm license) by admitting they have a problem.

That's the problem with laws that decrease folks rights. You're asking them to voluntarly become a second class citizen in exchange for admitting they have a problem.


We have plenty of cases over here where folks will not go see a shrink as it could trigger a red flag law.

Maddog wrote:Also, they will hide any problems if there is a chance they will lose rights (like a firearm license) by admitting they have a problem.

That's the problem with laws that decrease folks rights. You're asking them to voluntarly become a second class citizen in exchange for admitting they have a problem.

By that logic, if you don't carry a gun, or can't afford one, you're a third-class citizen??

Guns suck. You don’t need one. End of.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:The latest on Sky news.

Seems that 22 year old Jake Davison kicked down the door of the house, where , for whatever reason, he  shot his own mother dead.

Police say this case was unusual, as Davison then left the house and started shooting randomly, first the little girl and her dad, then a woman in her 50's , then a man in his 60's, none of these victims are thought to be connected to Davison.....he then turned the gun on himself.

He was licensed to carry the gun, investigations are beginning as to how an obviously disturbed young man was allowed to have gun licence.

Unfortunately, disturbed people don't identify as or act disturbed until it's too late.  

Seemingly normal people can go off the rails pretty quickly before anyone really notices..

Also, they will hide any problems if there is a chance they will lose rights (like a firearm license) by admitting they have a problem.

That's the problem with laws that decrease folks rights.  You're asking them to voluntarly become a second class citizen in exchange for admitting they have a problem.


We have plenty of cases over here where folks will not go see a shrink as it could trigger a red flag law.  

From what i have read, and from Tommys earlier post, it seems this man had quite an online presence, so it wouldn't have been a surprise to people who knew him to know he was disturbed.

Edit to add......seems his gun licence had been revoked last year, then reinstated after he attended an  anger management course.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-police-reinstated-gunmans-firearms-licence-last-month?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1628880762

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Unfortunately, disturbed people don't identify as or act disturbed until it's too late.  

Seemingly normal people can go off the rails pretty quickly before anyone really notices..

Also, they will hide any problems if there is a chance they will lose rights (like a firearm license) by admitting they have a problem.

That's the problem with laws that decrease folks rights.  You're asking them to voluntarly become a second class citizen in exchange for admitting they have a problem.


We have plenty of cases over here where folks will not go see a shrink as it could trigger a red flag law.  

From what i have read, and from Tommys earlier post, it seems this man had quite an online presence, so it wouldn't have been a surprise to people who knew him to know he was disturbed.

Edit to add......seems his gun licence had been revoked last year, then reinstated after he attended an  anger management course.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-police-reinstated-gunmans-firearms-licence-last-month?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1628880762

That's the problem. I know the following is not exactly the same but it's very close.

This is like a guy who got several tickets for speeding and lost his license. He takes some courses, waits awhile and says he's reformed. The state is probably going to give him back his license after he jumps through all the right hoops.

People have to have a means to repair and rehab themselves back to the same level as others at some point, especially if they haven't harmed anyone.


That's how free societies work. Sometimes it ends in tragedy.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Also, they will hide any problems if there is a chance they will lose rights (like a firearm license) by admitting they have a problem.

That's the problem with laws that decrease folks rights. You're asking them to voluntarly become a second class citizen in exchange for admitting they have a problem.

By that logic, if you don't carry a gun, or can't afford one, you're a third-class citizen??  

If you don't carry a gun, that choice was made by you.

What I'm saying is that a person denied a right that you and I have, feels like a lower class citizen. Perhaps he should be denied that right, but that's a different story.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

From what i have read, and from Tommys earlier post, it seems this man had quite an online presence, so it wouldn't have been a surprise to people who knew him to know he was disturbed.

Edit to add......seems his gun licence had been revoked last year, then reinstated after he attended an  anger management course.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-police-reinstated-gunmans-firearms-licence-last-month?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1628880762

That's the problem. I know the following is not exactly the same but it's very close.

This is like a guy who got several tickets for speeding and lost his license. He takes some courses, waits awhile and says he's reformed.  The state is probably going to give him back his license after he jumps through all the right hoops.  

People have to have a means to repair and rehab themselves back to the same level as others at some point, especially if they haven't harmed anyone.  


That's how free societies work. Sometimes it ends in tragedy.  

I see the point you are making, cars can kill just as guns can.

But....this mans gun licence was only taken away from him last December, then after he undertook an anger management course, it was given back  a few short months later.
It's been reported his mother also tried to get help for him, contacting the NHS and even the police, so the authorities did know he had mental health problems, add to that his disturbing online activities, there is no way this man should have been licensed to own guns.

Apparently he was quite into weightlifting/bodybuilding and is quite likely have been using some sort of steroids... Many of which are well known to make people prone to quick tempers and bouts of extreme rage...

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

That's the problem. I know the following is not exactly the same but it's very close.

This is like a guy who got several tickets for speeding and lost his license. He takes some courses, waits awhile and says he's reformed.  The state is probably going to give him back his license after he jumps through all the right hoops.  

People have to have a means to repair and rehab themselves back to the same level as others at some point, especially if they haven't harmed anyone.  


That's how free societies work. Sometimes it ends in tragedy.  

I see the point you are making, cars can kill just as guns can.

But....this mans gun licence was only taken away from him last December, then after he undertook an anger management course, it was given back  a few short months later.
It's been reported his mother also tried to get help for him, contacting the NHS and even the police, so the authorities did know he had mental health problems, add to that his disturbing online activities, there is no way this man should have been licensed to own guns.

Yeah, there may have been warning signs that should have been heeded too.

It's not unusual after one of these tragedies to look back and say someone should have stepped in.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

I see the point you are making, cars can kill just as guns can.

But....this mans gun licence was only taken away from him last December, then after he undertook an anger management course, it was given back  a few short months later.
It's been reported his mother also tried to get help for him, contacting the NHS and even the police, so the authorities did know he had mental health problems, add to that his disturbing online activities, there is no way this man should have been licensed to own guns.

Yeah, there may have been warning signs that should have been heeded too.  

It's not unusual after one of these tragedies to look back and say someone should have stepped in.  

There must always be warning signs, no one turns into a monster overnight. Maybe if the police or the medics his mum appealed to had helped, this could have been averted.

I doubt many family members or friends could ever envisage this sort of tragedy happening though. We all know someone who isn't quite 'right', but 99.9% of them never explode like this.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yeah, there may have been warning signs that should have been heeded too.  

It's not unusual after one of these tragedies to look back and say someone should have stepped in.  

There must always be warning signs, no one turns into a monster overnight. Maybe if the police or the medics his mum appealed to had helped, this could have been averted.

I doubt many family members or friends could ever envisage this sort of tragedy happening though. We all know someone who isn't quite 'right', but 99.9% of them never explode like this.

Exactly. A lot of folks could see some of my anti government rhetoric as dangerous and try to deny me some of my rights.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

There must always be warning signs, no one turns into a monster overnight. Maybe if the police or the medics his mum appealed to had helped, this could have been averted.

I doubt many family members or friends could ever envisage this sort of tragedy happening though. We all know someone who isn't quite 'right', but 99.9% of them never explode like this.

Exactly. A lot of folks could see some of my anti government rhetoric as dangerous and try to deny me some of my rights.

Different mindset. You think the general population has the right to own a gun, we (in the UK) have never had that opinion....thank God.

"Labour says police have questions to answer over how a gunman obtained a firearms licence and went on a rampage as more tributes poured in for the victims of the killing spree.

Sir Keir Starmer also said there may need to be a review of gun laws in the wake of Jake Davison shooting dead five people in Plymouth before turning the weapon on himself.

The Labour leader welcomed the launch of the investigation into how Davison had his gun licence returned after it was previously removed, but said the case raised wider issues.

“I think there are wider questions.

“How on earth did he get a gun licence in the first place? What back-up checks were done?” he added.

“I am glad there is the investigation already into why the licence was returned.

“I do think there are wider questions here and that could involve a review of the gun licensing laws because there are other questions here that urgently need to be addressed.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/police-have-questions-to-answer-over-plymouth-mass-shootings-starmer/ar-AANjAyI?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Exactly. A lot of folks could see some of my anti government rhetoric as dangerous and try to deny me some of my rights.

Different mindset. You think the general population has the right to own a gun, we (in the UK) have never had that opinion....thank God.

"Labour says police have questions to answer over how a gunman obtained a firearms licence and went on a rampage as more tributes poured in for the victims of the killing spree.

Sir Keir Starmer also said there may need to be a review of gun laws in the wake of Jake Davison shooting dead five people in Plymouth before turning the weapon on himself.

The Labour leader welcomed the launch of the investigation into how Davison had his gun licence returned after it was previously removed, but said the case raised wider issues.

“I think there are wider questions.

“How on earth did he get a gun licence in the first place? What back-up checks were done?” he added.

“I am glad there is the investigation already into why the licence was returned.

“I do think there are wider questions here and that could involve a review of the gun licensing laws because there are other questions here that urgently need to be addressed.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/police-have-questions-to-answer-over-plymouth-mass-shootings-starmer/ar-AANjAyI?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Doesn't the general population have a right to a gun license in the UK?

Perhaps you need to show a need to have one, but I don't think that's the case.

So, assuming I'm correct, how strange, anti social or bizarre does one have to act to be denied the privilege (right is really the wrong word) to have a gun license?

I am probably the wrong person to be explaining our gun restrictions...I dont know anyone who has a gun and I dont know enough about gun laws.
I found this...

"Part of what makes the UK’s gun laws as strict and effective as they are, is the restriction of many types of firearms, otherwise available in many other countries and getting a gun license in the UK is not easy. No matter the intended purpose of the guns listed below, they are all considered illegal and possession could lead to lengthy prison sentences. The following guns are totally prohibited by UK Law:"


https://southdowngunclub.co.uk/which-guns-legal-in-uk/#:~:text=To%20own%20a%20gun%20in%20the%20UK%2C%20you,to%20%E2%80%98personal%20possession%E2%80%99%20of%20firearms%20in%20the%20UK.

"In the UK, single, double and tripled-barrelled shotguns as well as those which have a lever action, pump-action, semiautomatic and fixed magazine capacity of no more than three cartridges are legal with a valid Shotgun certificate and meeting the basic safety requirements for firearm possession in the UK. Types of shotgun ammunition, such a solid slug, can only be bought following the granting of a Firearm Certificate (FAC)."


So it sounds like you don't have to prove a need, simply a desire.

Now the question is what sort of behavior precludes one person over another?

How do you divide the people into two classes?

One that can own a shotgun (the weapon used in this murder) and those that can't?

Yeah...I should have said 'desire' not option.
I think a very small minority of ordinary folk in the UK, unless they need it for work or sport, have the desire to own a gun.

I don't know what the criteria is when being granted a gun licence, hopefully people with mental health problems, anger issues, criminal records of some description, wouldn't be considered.

Maddog...you might find this informative.

1.4. Can anyone apply for a firearm certificate?
Permission to possess or to purchase or acquire a firearm will be granted to an individual who is
assessed by the licensing authority, the police, as not posing a threat to public safety and having
good reason to own the firearm. Organisations such as target shooting clubs, museums and
firearms dealers must also apply for licences if they wish to possess or use firearms. Persons
who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment of three years or more cannot possess a firearm or
ammunition (including antique firearms) at any time


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf

What's all this 'incel' bollocks?

Top Tip: Women won't shag you if you've got close together pushed in mad looking eyes. Being fat, bearded AND bespectacled is not a good look but we can forgive that if you've got a personality and can make us laugh. Don't blame us for not swooning because you're toting a penis extension pump action shotgun. Working out and taking steroids won't impress us either. And most importantly....women don't like weirdos. Specially weirdo's who live with their mums.

Syl wrote:Maddog...you might find this informative.

1.4. Can anyone apply for a firearm certificate?
Permission to possess or to purchase or acquire a firearm will be granted to an individual who is
assessed by the licensing authority, the police, as not posing a threat to public safety and having
good reason to own the firearm. Organisations such as target shooting clubs, museums and
firearms dealers must also apply for licences if they wish to possess or use firearms. Persons
who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment of three years or more cannot possess a firearm or
ammunition (including antique firearms) at any time


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf

Yeah, you just need to say you want to use it for sport and not something like self defense..

Then the government needs to figure out what sort of thing constitutes a threat.

HoratioTarr wrote:What's all this 'incel' bollocks?

Top Tip:  Women won't shag you if you've got close together pushed in mad looking eyes.   Being fat, bearded AND bespectacled is not a good look  but we can forgive that if you've got a personality and can make us laugh.   Don't blame us for not swooning because you're toting a penis extension pump action shotgun.  Working out and taking steroids won't impress us either.  And most importantly....women don't like weirdos.  Specially weirdo's who live with their mums.

Quit picking on me.

The UK does just fine without guns.

HoratioTarr wrote:What's all this 'incel' bollocks?

Top Tip:  Women won't shag you if you've got close together pushed in mad looking eyes.   Being fat, bearded AND bespectacled is not a good look  but we can forgive that if you've got a personality and can make us laugh.   Don't blame us for not swooning because you're toting a penis extension pump action shotgun.  Working out and taking steroids won't impress us either.  And most importantly....women don't like weirdos.  Specially weirdo's who live with their mums.

I had to look that word up a couple of days ago......yet another word we will no doubt be hearing a lot of in future.
Who makes these words up?

This story illustrates perfectly one of the major flaws of the internet. I think before the internet was around, this guy might have listened to that little voice in his head that said he was maybe going a little off the rails, might have reached out to someone for help.

Now, millions of people like him have at their fingertips all sorts of content telling them they're right, reinforcing their oddball attitudes and essentially radicalising them.

HoratioTarr wrote:What's all this 'incel' bollocks?

Top Tip:  Women won't shag you if you've got close together pushed in mad looking eyes.   Being fat, bearded AND bespectacled is not a good look  but we can forgive that if you've got a personality and can make us laugh.   Don't blame us for not swooning because you're toting a penis extension pump action shotgun.  Working out and taking steroids won't impress us either.  And most importantly....women don't like weirdos.  Specially weirdo's who live with their mums.

Woah. Hang on! Let me tell you something...I detest clean-shaven men (it’s like kissing a boy!), I hate skinny, hairless guys (it’s like dating a boy!), I hate men that wear too much aftershave and dress like they work in the city all the time, (it’s like dating a boy!), I detest men that are really into cars and big boobs (it’s like dating a boy!).....

I kinda like weirdos...unless they still live their mum...

I guess you catch my drift.

I agree with you there Ben.

No matter how wierd a person is,  he only has to go online  to meet likeminded wierdos to encourage whatever dangerous fantasies he may hold.

eddie wrote:The UK does just fine without guns.

Fewer guns.

I think Ben should get his shotgun license so he can take you skeet shooting.

Ben Reilly wrote:This story illustrates perfectly one of the major flaws of the internet. I think before the internet was around, this guy might have listened to that little voice in his head that said he was maybe going a little off the rails, might have reached out to someone for help.

Now, millions of people like him have at their fingertips all sorts of content telling them they're right, reinforcing their oddball attitudes and essentially radicalising them.

I almost said that, because I've said that before about incels (and other folks with social issues).

The internet creates all sorts of echo chambers that confirms biases and downright weird and obsessive thoughts.

The UK is flooded with illegal guns nd there are shootings/killings all the time by the criminals that hold them.


It is extremely rare here for any licenced gun owner to act in the way that this nutcase has.

Tommy Monk wrote:


The UK is flooded with illegal guns nd there are shootings/killings all the time by the criminals that hold them.


It is extremely rare here for any licenced gun owner to act in the way that this nutcase has.

It is rare, It's rare for any lone gunman to go on the rampage like this.I think it said it has been over 10 years since anything similar has happened here.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The UK is flooded with illegal guns nd there are shootings/killings all the time by the criminals that hold them.


It is extremely rare here for any licenced gun owner to act in the way that this nutcase has.

It is rare, It's rare for any lone gunman to go on the rampage like this.I think it said it has been over 10 years since anything similar has happened here.

And it will likely stay rare. I don't think you can make the world safe, and there is a point where trying to control people is counter productive and puts them at more risk..

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

It is rare, It's rare for any lone gunman to go on the rampage like this.I think it said it has been over 10 years since anything similar has happened here.

And it will likely stay rare.

Primarily because guns are not available.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

And it will likely stay rare.

Primarily because guns are not available.

Correct, at least not for the public.

Much like this country, where mass shootings by the public are unheard of. https://www.history.com/topics/china/tiananmen-square

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

It is rare, It's rare for any lone gunman to go on the rampage like this.I think it said it has been over 10 years since anything similar has happened here.

And it will likely stay rare. I don't think you can make the world safe, and there is a point where trying to control people is counter productive and puts them at more risk..

The world will never be safe for everyone, but in this case, had this man not been granted a gun licence, odds are he would not have had a gun, and 5 people, including random strangers, would not have died of gunshot wounds.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

And it will likely stay rare. I don't think you can make the world safe, and there is a point where trying to control people is counter productive and puts them at more risk..

The world will never be safe for everyone, but in this case, had this man not been granted a gun licence, odds are he would not have had a gun, and 5 people, including random strangers,  would not have died of gunshot wounds.

True. Hindsight is 2020 as they say.

The real trick is foresight where you tell certain people you can't be trusted with certain objects, without coming off as an authoritarian regime.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Primarily because guns are not available.

Correct, at least not for the public.

Much like this country, where mass shootings by the public are unheard of. https://www.history.com/topics/china/tiananmen-square

How do you come to that conclusion?
Granted, these figures are a few years old, no doubt the number has increased year on year since then.

"Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence.
In his first weekly address of 2016, Barack Obama vowed to take executive action to increase background checks on gun buyers.

His announcement followed another bloody year in the US in which thousands were killed and tens of thousands wounded by gunfire.

Here's a look at some of the statistics behind the violence.

The statistics
Mass shootings: There were 372 mass shootings in the US in 2015, killing 475 people and wounding 1,870, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker, which catalogues such incidents. A mass shooting is defined as a single shooting incident which kills or injures four or more people, including the assailant.

School shootings: There were 64 school shootings in 2015, according to a dedicated campaign group set up in the wake of the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre in Connecticut in 2012. Those figures include occasions when a gun was fired but no-one was hurt.


All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Correct, at least not for the public.

Much like this country, where mass shootings by the public are unheard of. https://www.history.com/topics/china/tiananmen-square

How do you come to that conclusion?
Granted, these figures are a few years old, no doubt the number has increased year on year since then.

"Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence.
In his first weekly address of 2016, Barack Obama vowed to take executive action to increase background checks on gun buyers.

His announcement followed another bloody year in the US in which thousands were killed and tens of thousands wounded by gunfire.

Here's a look at some of the statistics behind the violence.

The statistics
Mass shootings: There were 372 mass shootings in the US in 2015, killing 475 people and wounding 1,870, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker, which catalogues such incidents. A mass shooting is defined as a single shooting incident which kills or injures four or more people, including the assailant.

School shootings: There were 64 school shootings in 2015, according to a dedicated campaign group set up in the wake of the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre in Connecticut in 2012. Those figures include occasions when a gun was fired but no-one was hurt.


All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604

I was referring to the country in the link.

Oh right, You can't compare China with either the US or the UK though.

Syl wrote:Oh right, You can't compare China with either the US or the UK though.

No doubt it's more authoritarian than either place. Hopefully we don't catch up to them.

I was just showing an extreme version of a place with very limited rights and how it might not be safer for the people in the long run.

Irrespective of what any citizen wants, the Chinese government has decided that you don't have any need for a firearm, unless you're working for the government. Then firearms are useful tools for keeping folks in line.

Well you only have to see the news and the way citizens were treated when Covid started to see the Chinese are very 'obedient'....that could never happen here, or the US.
I think over the last 18 months I have seen more people flouting the mask wearing rule than obeying it, and that rule was brought in to help people not to control them.

In any case, I see nothing wrong with laws forbidding guns here unless there is a valid reason to own one.
I would prefer to back a persons right not to be shot than a persons right to hold a gun.

Syl wrote:Well you only have to see the news and the way citizens were treated when Covid started to see the Chinese are very 'obedient'....that could never happen here, or the US.
I think over the last 18 months I have seen more people flouting the mask wearing rule than obeying it, and that rule was brought in to help people not to control them.

In any case, I see nothing wrong with laws forbidding guns here unless there is a valid reason to own one.
I would prefer to back a persons right not to be shot than a persons right to hold a gun.

I'm pretty sure the right to posses firearms doesn't negate your right to not be shot.


The question is, does a right to own a firearm supercede another's persons right to live without the fear of being innocently shot by one?