Israeli-Gaza: The Next Round

The present conflict goes back to when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a profa RW’er, became cozy with RW, former US President Donald Trump. The US provides support for Israel to the tune of $4-billion direct aid, and $8-billion in loan guarantees. Nearly all of this in the form of military aid, effectively placing the US in control of Israel’s war making capabilities. The coziness between Netanyahu and Trump created an atmosphere where the US divorced any concern for Palestine, the latter allowing Israel to take over Jerusalem.

Presently, while Trump is no longer the US President, Israel has continued to stretch its new-found liberty in Palestinian territory. This year, it began a program of ethnic-cleansing of Palestinians from eastern Jerusalem, to be replaced by Israelites. Israel appears to be preparing for a claim that Germany made on Czechoslovakia during their program of liebestraum prior to WWII, that since the residents are predominately our folks, we should take over the territory. Palestinian residents with generations of years in their homes, are being turned out into the streets. This has prompted Hamas, which governs Gaza, to retaliate against Israel. Rockets and air strikes have followed.

Pressure is being placed on the US President to intervene. But, to do so would mean undoing all the transgressions made during the Trump administration. So far, the US is being quiet.

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396

SSDD.

Same shit, different day.

While Israel is problematic, they seem to get along fairly well with Fatah and the West Bank as well as their other neighbors. Of course kicking their asses a time or two has helped.

With the exception of Iran, most of the Middle East is tired of Hamas and the problems they cause in the region.

Maddog wrote:While Israel is problematic, they seem to get along fairly well with Fatah and the West Bank as well as their other neighbors.

Yes, Israel gets along where they are not provoking, to the credit of the Muslims in the region. It’s only when Israel provokes, that the Muslims come to the defense of the victims…and Hamas provides the response.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:While Israel is problematic, they seem to get along fairly well with Fatah and the West Bank as well as their other neighbors.

Yes, Israel gets along where they are not provoking, to the credit of the Muslims in the region.  It’s only when Israel provokes, that the Muslims come to the defense of the victims…and Hamas provides the response.

Yeah. There's something different about Hamas.

Different or not, Hamas has picked up the banner for Palestinians. Gaza is ruled by Hamas, and Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians.

Original Quill wrote:Different or not, Hamas has picked up the banner for Palestinians.  Gaza is ruled by Hamas, and Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians.

The Palestinian Authority may disagree with you

East Jerusalem was excluded from the Oslo Accords.

Original Quill wrote:East Jerusalem was excluded from the Oslo Accords.

So?

The Palestinians are governed by two different factions.

Hamas has picked up the banner for Palestinians. Gaza is ruled by Hamas, and Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians.

As I said...

Original Quill wrote:Hamas has picked up the banner for Palestinians.  Gaza is ruled by Hamas, and Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians.

As I said...

Yeah, except what you said isn't true.

The Palestinians being represented by the PA are well represented and not involved in an armed conflict. Last time they were in one, it was with Hamas.

Hamas is loathed throughout the Middle East. While they can't admit it publicly, many leaders in the region wouldn prefer that they be wiped out so that the rest of the Arab world can get on with their lives.

What I said was: "East Jerusalem was excluded from the Oslo Accords."

The Palestinian Authority is only as good as its jurisdiction.  Under the Oslo Accords, by which the PA was created, it has no jurisdiction in east Jerusalem.

Hamas has no such constraint.  Hence, what I said was true: "Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians."  The PA is out of the picture.

You miss the point entirely.  We are not judging a popularity contest.  Hamas is standing up for the Muslims in east Jerusalem, while the PA sits idly twiddling its thumbs.  Hence:  "Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians."

Original Quill wrote:What I said was: "East Jerusalem was excluded from the Oslo Accords."

The Palestinian Authority is only as good as its jurisdiction.  Under the Oslo Accords, by which the PA was created, it has no jurisdiction in east Jerusalem.

Hamas has no such constraint.  Hence, what I said was true: "Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians."  The PA is out of the picture.

You miss the point entirely.  We are not judging a popularity contest.  Hamas is standing up for the Muslims in east Jerusalem, while the PA sits idly twiddling its thumbs.  Hence:  "Gaza is the only state representing Palestinians."

Hamas has no constraints. That's sort of their problem.

Maddog wrote:Hamas has no constraints. That's sort of their problem.

Apparently, neither does Israel.  Since we give them so much military aid, and we have no dog in the fight, how do you feel about cutting off the aid to Israel?

We have no interest in Israeli Lebensraum. Why are we financing a war in which we have no stake?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Hamas has no constraints. That's sort of their problem.

Apparently, neither does Israel.  Since we give them so much military aid, and we have no dog in the fight, how do you feel about cutting off the aid to Israel?

We have no interest in Israeli Lebensraum.  Why are we financing a war in which we have no stake?

I'm cool with cutting off all aid to the region, including Israel.

Speaking of aid, where are the Palestinians Arab Brothers?

Maddog wrote:Speaking of aid, where are the Palestinians Arab Brothers?

In Gaza. I think that the concentration on Gaza by Muslims is strategic. First, it's the location...right next to Israel. Second, is accessibility. Third, they are friendlies. It makes sense for the Arabs to concentrate on feeding resources through Gaza.

I think Netanyahu is playing a bit of a game. He is in trouble, politically, at home. Whenever that is the case, he stirs up troubles with the people in occupied territories, to rally the Jewish people around him...much like Republicans start wars to get elected. He has done this before.

Not that Lebensraum isn't a long-term goal for Netanyahu, but first-things-first.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Speaking of aid, where are the Palestinians Arab Brothers?

In Gaza.  I think that the concentration on Gaza by Muslims is strategic.  First, it's the location...right next to Israel.  Second, is accessibility.  Third, they are friendlies.  It makes sense for the Arabs to concentrate on feeding resources through Gaza.

I think Netanyahu is playing a bit of a game.  He is in trouble, politically, at home.  Whenever that is the case, he stirs up troubles with the people in occupied territories, to rally the Jewish people around him...much like Republicans start wars to get elected.  He has done this before.

Not that Lebensraum isn't a long-term goal for Netanyahu, but first-things-first.

The Arabs are not helping Hamas.

They have zero use for them.

It's the Persians who are feeding Hamas.

Well, buying their rockets anyway.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In Gaza.  I think that the concentration on Gaza by Muslims is strategic.  First, it's the location...right next to Israel.  Second, is accessibility.  Third, they are friendlies.  It makes sense for the Arabs to concentrate on feeding resources through Gaza.

I think Netanyahu is playing a bit of a game.  He is in trouble, politically, at home.  Whenever that is the case, he stirs up troubles with the people in occupied territories, to rally the Jewish people around him...much like Republicans start wars to get elected.  He has done this before.

Not that Lebensraum isn't a long-term goal for Netanyahu, but first-things-first.

The Arabs are not helping Hamas.

They have zero use for them.

I don't think that's true.  Gaza is right in the middle of Arab country...Mediterranean to Persian Gulf.  There has been no announcement/declaration of support, because it's asymmetrical support.

Are you suggesting that Arabs are turning against the Palestinians?  If so, I think you are wrong.  Muslims are a peace-loving people, who grow tired of war and turmoil.  But they have this warmongering hawk thrown in their midst, and that entity is theistic, built on otherism and insular ideology.  Just when the Muslims think they have peace, Israel does something to disrupt it.

As we have seen with the American south, otherism inevitably creates a two-tier society, with law/political authority favoring one side...the favored side doing everything to disenfranchise the weaker side.  Right now, we see the Israelis trying to ethnically cleanse the east Jerusalem region—removing people from their inured homes of generations, in order that their favorites may come in and take over—just as they have done with the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

This Israeli Lebensraum is the rub of the problem over there, and we refuse to face it.

Maddog wrote:It's the Persians who are feeding Hamas.

Well, buying their rockets anyway.

The Persians are Muslim too.  They are Shia rather than Sunni, but that doesn't figure into the defense of Palestinians.  They are simply siding with their fellows.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The Arabs are not helping Hamas.

They have zero use for them.

I don't think that's true.  Gaza is right in the middle of Arab country...Mediterranean to Persian Gulf.  There has been no announcement/declaration of support, because it's asymmetrical support.

Are you suggesting that Arabs are turning against the Palestinians?  If so, I think you are wrong.  Muslims are a peace-loving people, who grow tired of war and turmoil.  But they have this warmongering hawk thrown in their midst, and that entity is theistic, built on otherism and insular ideology.  Just when the Muslims think they have peace, Israel does something to disrupt it.

As we have seen with the American south, otherism inevitably creates a two-tier society, with law/political authority favoring one side...the favored side doing everything to disenfranchise the weaker side.  Right now, we see the Israelis trying to ethnically cleanse the east Jerusalem region—removing people from their inured homes of generations, in order that their favorites may come in and take over—just as they have done with the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

This Israeli Lebensraum is the rub of the problem over there, and we refuse to face it.

Maddog wrote:It's the Persians who are feeding Hamas.

Well, buying their rockets anyway.

The Persians are Muslim too.  They are Shia rather than Sunni, but that doesn't figure into the defense of Palestinians.  They are simply siding with their fellows.

The Persians are not Arabs. The power struggle in the middle east is between Arabs and Persians.

Hamas has been rejected by the Arab states. So now they are supported by the enemy of the Arab states.

Try to keep up.

I saw your facile gotcha trap. That's why I gently guided you to the correct terms: Shia and Sunni. But you were so anxious to spring your trap that you didn't catch the kindness. Sorry for your loss.

The Persians are the Shia sept, while Arabs are the Sunni. But, as I pointed out, that doctrinal split has nothing to do with the support for the Palestinians. The Palestinians are Sunni, while the Persian, Iranians are shia, and yet we see them banding together for mutual aid.

The Sunni nations are locked in by commitments. This is complicated by the Syrian conflict. Only Iran has freedom, and the long-term, and continuing hostility toward Israeli Lebensraum. So we see them participating.

As far as other Sunni nations, Lebanon is approximately 77.5% Sunni and it is cooperating with Iran in attacks on Israel.

Original Quill wrote:I saw your facile gotcha trap.  That's why I gently guided you to the correct terms: Shia and Sunni.  But you were so anxious to spring your trap that you didn't catch the kindness.  Sorry for your loss.

The Persians are the Shia sept, while Arabs are the Sunni.  But, as I pointed out, that doctrinal split has nothing to do with the support for the Palestinians.  The Palestinians are Sunni, while the Persian, Iranians are shia, and yet we see them banding together for mutual aid.

The Sunni nations are locked in by commitments.  This is complicated by the Syrian conflict.  Only Iran has freedom, and the long-term, and continuing hostility toward Israeli Lebensraum.  So we see them participating.

As far as other Sunni nations, Lebanon is approximately 77.5% Sunni and it is cooperating with Iran in attacks on Israel.

Look at Yemen. Multiple Arab countries are bombing the hell out of Iranian backed forces, because of the power struggle between Arab and Persian forces in the Middle East. Hamas has alligned itself with Iran, creating a rift between it and and most other Arab states.

You're looking at this with a 40 year old history book.

We now have US supported forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Yemen, and US backed forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Gaza.

Funny old world eh?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:I saw your facile gotcha trap.  That's why I gently guided you to the correct terms: Shia and Sunni.  But you were so anxious to spring your trap that you didn't catch the kindness.  Sorry for your loss.

The Persians are the Shia sept, while Arabs are the Sunni.  But, as I pointed out, that doctrinal split has nothing to do with the support for the Palestinians.  The Palestinians are Sunni, while the Persian, Iranians are shia, and yet we see them banding together for mutual aid.

The Sunni nations are locked in by commitments.  This is complicated by the Syrian conflict.  Only Iran has freedom, and the long-term, and continuing hostility toward Israeli Lebensraum.  So we see them participating.

As far as other Sunni nations, Lebanon is approximately 77.5% Sunni and it is cooperating with Iran in attacks on Israel.

Look at Yemen. Multiple Arab countries are bombing the hell out of Iranian backed forces, because of the power struggle between Arab and Persian forces in the Middle East. Hamas has alligned itself with Iran, creating a rift between it and and most other Arab states.

You're looking at this with a 40 year old history book.

We now have US supported forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Yemen, and US backed forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Gaza.

Funny old world eh?

The 73-year old history of Palestinian conflict is still with us. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/state-of-israel-proclaimed Did you wish it away in your own short-sighted dreams? The world isn't like that.

Israel still wants to ethnically cleanse Palestinians out of their existence...in this case, east Jerusalem. I've already said that nations have other commitments, that preoccupy them elsewhere. But all of them still back the Palestinians.

Just because other things divert our attention, doesn't mean they magically disappear. We still live with the vestiges of slavery in our own south, and that's now 400-years old. Until the Palestinian question is resolved, it will always be with us.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look at Yemen. Multiple Arab countries are bombing the hell out of Iranian backed forces, because of the power struggle between Arab and Persian forces in the Middle East. Hamas has alligned itself with Iran, creating a rift between it and and most other Arab states.

You're looking at this with a 40 year old history book.

We now have US supported forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Yemen, and US backed forces bombing Iranian backed Arabs in Gaza.

Funny old world eh?

The 73-year old history of Palestinian conflict is still with us.  https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/state-of-israel-proclaimed  Did you wish it away in your own short-sighted dreams?  The world isn't like that.

Israel still wants to ethnically cleanse Palestinians out of their existence...in this case, east Jerusalem.  I've already said that nations have other commitments, that preoccupy them elsewhere.  But all of them still back the Palestinians.

Just because other things divert our attention, doesn't mean they magically disappear.  We still live with the vestiges of slavery in our own south, and that's now 400-years old.  Until the Palestinian question is resolved, it will always be with us.

Israel is fine with Arabs

Arabs are fine with Israel.

The problem is a small group of Arabs that align themselves with Iran and Hamas.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The 73-year old history of Palestinian conflict is still with us.  https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/state-of-israel-proclaimed  Did you wish it away in your own short-sighted dreams?  The world isn't like that.

Israel still wants to ethnically cleanse Palestinians out of their existence...in this case, east Jerusalem.  I've already said that nations have other commitments, that preoccupy them elsewhere.  But all of them still back the Palestinians.

Just because other things divert our attention, doesn't mean they magically disappear.  We still live with the vestiges of slavery in our own south, and that's now 400-years old.  Until the Palestinian question is resolved, it will always be with us.

Israel is fine with Arabs

Arabs are fine with Israel.  

The problem is a small group of Arabs that align themselves with Iran and Hamas.  

I don't think that's true. If it were, Lebanon wouldn't be in the fray. Back in 1948, when Israel took over the eastern Mediterranean territory, it was the Lebanese who took the hit. During the Arab-Israeli war of 1948, Israeli forces occupied South Lebanon. Israel is not fine with Sunnis, nor are the Lebanese fine with Israel.

But it is true that Hamas, in ruling Gaza, is picking up the banner. That's what I said in the beginning.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Israel is fine with Arabs

Arabs are fine with Israel.  

The problem is a small group of Arabs that align themselves with Iran and Hamas.  

I don't think that's true.  If it were, Lebanon wouldn't be in the fray.  Back in 1948, when Israel took over the eastern Mediterranean territory, it was the Lebanese who took the hit.  During the Arab-Israeli war of 1948, Israeli forces occupied South Lebanon.  Israel is not fine with Sunnis, nor are the Lebanese fine with Israel.

But it is true that Hamas, in ruling Gaza, is picking up the banner.  That's what I said in the beginning.

It's not 1948 anymore.

Hell, the Brits basically controlled Iran in 1948.

The situation over there has evolved.

Like I said before. "Keep up".

Hamas’s resistance to Saudi pressure could push Riyadh to intensify its campaign against the group. Its demonisation in Saudi media will likely continue, and so will efforts to cut its funding channels.

The kingdom might also exert political and economic pressure on other Arab countries to tighten the screws on Hamas and it might lobby for the Arab League to designate it as a terrorist organisation, as it did with Hezbollah in 2016.

If Saudi pressure persists and increases, this would undoubtedly affect negatively Hamas’s precarious situation in the region and would strengthen its relations with Iran, which has reinstated its military and financial support for the group.

While Hamas will increasingly feel cornered, the Palestinian people will be the ones who pay the price, as living conditions and economic disaster continue to worsen in the Gaza Strip.



From Al- Jazeera

You are going down one of the rabbit-holes of those 'other commitments' I discussed.  Saudi Arabia has never been a military player in middle-eastern geopolitics, but lately under Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) they have tried to take over the entire Arabian Peninsula.  The Trump administration backed MBS, but US support in that fracas was completely withdrawn when Biden took over.

That is another fight, for another region.  While Iran and Hamas are averse to the Saudis on that issue, I doubt that it changes the pan-Muslim dedication to the Palestinian cause.  Saudi Muslims are among the most vociferous of those who want to expel Israel.  Saudis planned, and were responsible for 9-11.  The aspirations of the Saudi royal family, partnered with a like-minded criminal family in the US, are but an opportunistic diversion.

Original Quill wrote:You are going down one of the rabbit-holes of those 'other commitments' I discussed.  Saudi Arabia has never been a military player in middle-eastern geopolitics, but lately under Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) they have tried to take over the entire Arabian Peninsula.  The Trump administration backed MBS, but US support in that fracas was completely withdrawn when Biden took over.

That is another fight, for another region.  While Iran and Hamas are averse to the Saudis on that issue, I doubt that it changes the pan-Muslim dedication to the Palestinian cause.  Saudi Muslims are among the most vociferous of those who want to expel Israel.  Saudis planned, and were responsible for 9-11.  The aspirations of the Saudi royal family, partnered with a like-minded criminal family in the US, are but an opportunistic diversion.

I'm not going down a rabbit hole. I posted an explanation from AL Jazeera for you to be better informed about the current situation.

Stop being an arrogant fucking know it all and eduacte yourself a little. Read 10 words for every one you type, instead of the other way around..

Just because it's from Al Jazeera does not mean it's on-point.

What you have done is quote a journal because it makes you sound erudite, and knowledgeable about the subject. The fact that it is another rabbit-hole is no matter, as long as you sound scholastic. The answer is to point out that it is a different subject.

The fact that you accuse me - your accuser - of being an "arrogant fucking know it all", is simple self-projection.

Original Quill wrote:Just because it's from Al Jazeera does not mean it's on-point.

What you have done is quote a journal because it makes you sound erudite, and knowledgeable about the subject.  The fact that it is another rabbit-hole is no matter, as long as you sound scholastic.  The answer is to point out that it is a different subject.

The fact that you accuse me - your accuser - of being an "arrogant fucking know it all", is simple self-projection.

Truth hurts eh?

U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders introduced a resolution blocking a $735 million weapons sale to Israel on Thursday, mirroring a symbolic action by the House of Representatives in response to conflict between Israel and Gaza's Hamas leaders.

"At a moment when U.S.-made bombs are devastating Gaza, and killing women and children, we cannot simply let another huge arms sale go through without even a congressional debate," said Sanders, an independent who votes with Democrats.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-sanders-offers-resolution-blocking-134840922.html

It looks like Progressives in Congress are being heard.  The way to combat Israeli Lebensraum, is to cut off their munitions.  Then they will have to politely ask Palestinians to leave, and give valid reasons why.  

Original Quill wrote:U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders introduced a resolution blocking a $735 million weapons sale to Israel on Thursday, mirroring a symbolic action by the House of Representatives in response to conflict between Israel and Gaza's Hamas leaders.

"At a moment when U.S.-made bombs are devastating Gaza, and killing women and children, we cannot simply let another huge arms sale go through without even a congressional debate," said Sanders, an independent who votes with Democrats.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-sanders-offers-resolution-blocking-134840922.html

It looks like Progressives in Congress are being heard.  The way to combat Israeli Lebensraum, is to cut off their munitions.  Then they will have to politely ask Palestinians to leave, and valid give reasons why.  

It will get about as far as the bill blocking arms sales to Saudi got.

Tio Jose isn't going to stop selling arms to Israel or any of its Arab allies.

Maddog wrote:It will get about as far as the bill blocking arms sales to Saudi got.

That was a different Congress, and a different President.

I see that Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has introduced the same bill in the House. Momentum is growing.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/554342-ocasio-cortez-leading-effort-to-block-arms-sale-to-israel

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:It will get about as far as the bill blocking arms sales to Saudi got.

That was a different Congress, and a different President.

I see that Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has introduced the same bill in the House.  Momentum is growing.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/554342-ocasio-cortez-leading-effort-to-block-arms-sale-to-israel

Read my previous post.

Slowly this time so it sinks in.

Biden thinks he has brokered a peace between Hamas and Israel.  However, he makes no mention of conditions in east Jerusalem.

Hamas has a precondition to peace, which is that Israeli hostilities must cease in east Jerusalem.  Biden's failure to mention that precondition leads me to the suspicion that he is hiding the truth, and setting up Hamas for fall.

If Biden is leaving out the precondition, he is telling a lie...to wit, that Hamas has agreed to an unconditional cease fire.  That will be the first Biden lie, if it is so.

Original Quill wrote:Biden thinks he has brokered a peace between Hamas and Israel.  However, he makes no mention of conditions in east Jerusalem.

Hamas has a precondition to peace, which is that Israeli hostilities must cease in east Jerusalem.  Biden's failure to mention that precondition leads me to the suspicion that he is hiding the truth, and setting up Hamas for fall.

If Biden is leaving out the precondition, he is telling a lie...to wit, that Hamas has agreed to an unconditional cease fire.  That will be the first Biden lie, if it is so.

Israel controls all of Jerusalem. It's Israeli territory. Biden knows that isn't ever going to change. He knows that Hamas is chartered not only to return Jerusalem to Arab control, but to destroy Israel.

Best he can hope for is that Israel allows Arabs to live in peace there.

This latest conflict will soon end, when Hamas gets enough Arabs killed.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Biden thinks he has brokered a peace between Hamas and Israel.  However, he makes no mention of conditions in east Jerusalem.

Hamas has a precondition to peace, which is that Israeli hostilities must cease in east Jerusalem.  Biden's failure to mention that precondition leads me to the suspicion that he is hiding the truth, and setting up Hamas for fall.

If Biden is leaving out the precondition, he is telling a lie...to wit, that Hamas has agreed to an unconditional cease fire.  That will be the first Biden lie, if it is so.

Israel controls all of Jerusalem. It's Israeli territory. Biden knows that isn't ever going to change. He knows that Hamas is chartered not only to return Jerusalem to Arab control, but to destroy Israel.  

Best he can hope for is that Israel allows Arabs to live in peace there.

This latest conflict will soon end, when Hamas gets enough Arabs killed.

If what you say is true, Biden is going to lose big time. Nancy (or Kamala) can tell 'im...the Progressives are about to take over the party.

The day is over for 60's politics.

I have dreams on Baja California, both Sud and Norte.  I might use the same arguments that the Israelis use for developing the occupied Palestinian territories: most of Baja California is populated or used by Americans anyway, and besides, we need the growing space...we are approaching 40-million here in California.

Why can't we simply take Sud and Norte Baja California, and expand there.  Mexico doesn’t use the land properly, anyway…it builds resorts, bars and hotels for Americans on vacation.  Pshaw…  It is mostly desolate desert, and we could create industrial ports and make the Sea of Cortez into a productive and economically successful body of water.  As for the land, we could drill for oil and make a bundle.  Guadalupe Island could be refinery situs, like Houston, and we can run pipelines all up and down the west coast.

These are the arguments of Lebensraum…the arguments used by Israel to expand into occupied territories.  The $-billions that America pours into Israel annually is dead money, wasted for bombs and munitions for killing Palestinian babies.  How much better could we use that fund?  If we took that money and developed Baja California, we could turn a deficit into a productive and positive asset for America.

We could even Make America Great Again.  

Original Quill wrote:I have dreams on Baja California, both Sud and Norte.  I might use the same arguments that the Israelis use for developing the occupied Palestinian territories: most of Baja California is populated or used by Americans anyway, and besides, we need the growing space...we are approaching 40-million here in California.

Why can't we simply take Sud and Norte Baja California, and expand there.  Mexico doesn’t use the land properly, anyway…it builds resorts, bars and hotels for Americans on vacation.  Pshaw…  It is mostly desolate desert, and we could create industrial ports and make the Sea of Cortez into a productive and economically successful body of water.  As for the land, we could drill for oil and make a bundle.  Guadalupe Island could be refinery situs, like Houston, and we can run pipelines all up and down the west coast.

These are the arguments of Lebensraum…the arguments used by Israel to expand into occupied territories.  The $-billions that America pours into Israel annually is dead money, wasted for bombs and munitions for killing Palestinian babies.  How much better could we use that fund?  If we took that money and developed Baja California, we could turn a deficit into a productive and positive asset for America.

We could even Make America Great Again.  

California is losing population now.

You don't need more land. You will be fine.

Just the same, we want to...     One of the places that California is losing population to, is Baja California.  To complete the process, and in the finest spirit of open living space, it would be better to take control of Baja California, and incorporate it into our state.

That's the response of Lebensraum.  "The development of a people is influenced by their geographic situation, and a society which effectively adapts to one geographic territory will logically expand the borders of their country into other territory."

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum

Original Quill wrote:Just the same, we want to...     One of the places that California is losing population to, is Baja California.  To complete the process, and in the finest spirit of open living space, it would be better to take control of Baja California, and incorporate it into our state.

That's the response of Lebensraum.  "The development of a people is influenced by their geographic situation, and a society which effectively adapts to one geographic territory will logically expand the borders of their country into other territory."

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum

Okie
Dokie then.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Just the same, we want to...     One of the places that California is losing population to, is Baja California.  To complete the process, and in the finest spirit of open living space, it would be better to take control of Baja California, and incorporate it into our state.

That's the response of Lebensraum.  "The development of a people is influenced by their geographic situation, and a society which effectively adapts to one geographic territory will logically expand the borders of their country into other territory."

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum

Okie
Dokie then.  

This amounts to the position that Israel takes vis-à-vis Palestinians.  It is open, bold-faced lebensraum.  They think, when the US isn't looking, that they can get away with local ethnic-cleansing, such as was happening in east Jerusalem.

When things die down, they'll try it again.  As a taxpayer, I don't want my taxes going to baby-killing.  We had enough of that in Viet Nam.

Could you mention lebensraum again? I don't think you have brought it up enough.

Maddog wrote:Could you mention lebensraum again? I don't think you have brought it up enough.

Oh....it's too much for you? How about the babies that are killed...is that too much for you?

I recognize that you are one of those callous, unthinking southerners...but would you be so indifferent if it was one of your daughters? Wouldn't you have a little tug-o-tuh heart, before you cracked that beer and went on to fondle your gun?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Could you mention lebensraum again? I don't think you have brought it up enough.

Oh....it's too much for you?  How about the babies that are killed...is that too much for you?

I recognize that you are one of those callous, unthinking southerners...but would you be so indifferent if it was one of your daughters?  Wouldn't you have a little tug-o-tuh heart, before you cracked that beer and went on to fondle your gun?

I'm not callous at all.

I just think you're a fucking bore.

Let me correct the above.

You're a repetitive, fucking bore.

Maddog wrote:Let me correct the above.

You're a repetitive, fucking bore.

Boring only because you haven't got the intellect to follow more complex ideas.  I don't mean to suggest you don't have the native capacity, but you haven't been disciplined to reason.  Such people are bound to be impatient and seek facile answers.

Face it...that's where the Trump cult comes from.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Let me correct the above.

You're a repetitive, fucking bore.

Boring only because you haven't got the intellect to follow more complex ideas.  I don't mean to suggest you don't have the native capacity, but you haven't been disciplined to reason.  Such people are bound to be impatient and seek facile answers.

Face it...that's where the Trump cult comes from.

And consistent.