If god is all powerful why does he allow sin?

First topic message reminder :

PhilDidge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lol! Don't get upset bruv. I thought you wanted a robust debate. What's all this shit about the real Zack. I thought this was our banter. I can take it easy if you want to be a baby about it.

The fact remains: who should we believe, Phil or Einstein,  Godel and other far more intelligent people?

Again you haven't replied to anything of my questions - come back with anything in your own words. By your own rules, you lose. Just because of your stubborn stupidity.

I thought atheism was about seeking the truth. Guess I was wrong. You just proved it. At least you managed to prove one thing.

Mate I do not get upset at childish abuse thrown or a religious person hell bent thinking a theory is a fact when all that has been tested is protons, nothing yet in the way of humans.
I do seek the truth and I see good ideas here with space, though not when it comes to humans within our own time and again too much is an unknown here.

As I say all you can do is to descend to insults mainly what all religious people do when their faith comes under scrutiny, which you are proving now, again unless you can go into the future you cannot prove this is the case with all matter or that in fact you can even prove that time really exists.

The later is your first point of call, which of yet without your theory would not even work in the first place, some scientists say the universes is not real and we live in a computer simulation, the ideas are numerous, but as yet what you have is a theory, which is a concept not a fact, which is what you fail to understand from the start. The fact is the matter what is taken as fact has been proven wrong many times, thus the consensus at the moment is that something is a seen as scientific but not fact   

So if you wish to debate and am all for it, if you wish to act like a child, then you still need to grow up

Lol! Your posts had a high calibre of stupidity which I can expose in one question:

Is the gps time dilation a concept?

It's based on the same equations we have been discussing. Just at a much smaller scale.

Now expand the same theory across galaxies and the time dilation is that much greater.

This is not a concept - it's very much real. Otherwise your sat nav wouldn't work.

This is not me saying this - but actual scientist. So of course I think you're stupid for arguing with me. But you do so because then you know I have won the second part of the debate.

But you continue the charade if you want. I actually find that more entertaining.

Again bruv - didn't mean to upset you. Genuinely thought you had the balls to take it.

PhilDidge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:Four million over a decade??

Yeah religion is dying out faster than a fast thing

Don't suppose you have worldwide stats

Dear me, that is quite a lot of people over a short period smelly, even more so when you think of how many Eastern Europeans have come here who are mainly all Catholic, who without them coming, the figure would have been even lower of Christian belief, showing that the true figure leaving is more like 6 million here in the last 10 years, that is substantial.

No idea on the world, last I heard atheism or no belief was the third biggest.

oh yeah as long as the last you heard on the ole grapevine was that atheism or no belief was the third biggest i guess it must be true

so no stats on worldwide religious conversions then

just delusional pipe dreams

Inrerupting a lively battle between a couple of you, evolution has sod all to do with religion, simply because it deals with proven scientific knowledge, findings, and facts, whereas religion relies solely on believing in a mythical being who has no proof of existance. Simple, aint it fellas.
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Diverting away from the battle, I was browsing through some of my old myth files and came across the following which I'd completely forgotten about. Have fun reading it HF, then the usual denials and side-tracking.

LUCIFER:
The New International Bible, The New Worlds Translation, The New English Bible. All 3 versions agree with each other and this is the result in accordance with the references.

Isaiah 14:12 No names mentioned.
Luke 10:18  Satan is named but not Lucifer.
Revelations 9:1 No names mentioned.
Revelations 12:3-9 Satan, the Devil and a dragon mentioned but not Lucifer.
Hebrews 12:22 No names mentioned.

It is interesting to note that Poet and mystic W. Blake (CE 1757-1827) classed
Lucifer as an angel of light and life bringer.
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This is what Enoch says about Angels, who were apparently given specific areas
of responsibility.

Ancient & traditional zodiac signs ruled by Angels &/or spirits, adopted by
Christians to represent their Saints:
Sign     Saint Angel/Spirit
Leo     ST. Mark Luvah        & Verchiel
Taurus     ST. Luke Tharmas    & Asmodel
Scorpio     ST. John Urizen    & Barbiel
Aquarius     ST. Matthew Urthona    & Gabiel

List of signs of the zodiac and ruling Angels:    Ruling Angels according to ST. Paul:
Sign        Angel/Spirit           Celestial rank
Aries        Malchidiel           Seraphim                  Ail.
Taurus        Asmodel           Cherubim                  Tual
Gemini        Ambriel           Thrones                   Giel
Cancer        Muriel           Dominions                   Cael
Leo        Verchiel           Powers                  Ol
Virgo        Hamaliel           Virtues                   Voil
Libra        Zuriel           Principalities               Jael
Scorpio        Barbiel           Archangels                 Sosol
Sagittarius     Adnachiel           Angels                 Sizajasel
Capricorn      Hanael           Innocents                 Casujoiah
Aquarius       Gabiel           Martyrs                 Ausiul
Pisces       Bachiel           Confessors                 Pasiel

Angels ruling over their respective planets:
Sun =Michael.  Moon =Gabriel.   Mercury =Raphael.  Venus =Anael.   Mars=Camael.
Jupiter   Zadkiel.     Saturn   Zaphkiel (Zazel).
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The above just goes to show how entrenched the early church was in mysticism and the
occult. Dare we say an extension and continuation  of older Pagan beliefs?

There you go gain HF: 'it governs that you are a series of accidental mutations starting from monkeys.'

You are getting boring now matey, with your continual repetition, why are you in a debate if all you can do is keep on repeating the same worn out claim? Change the record and come up with something more constructive.

stardesk wrote:There you go gain HF: 'it governs that you are a series of accidental mutations starting from monkeys.'

You are getting boring now matey, with your continual repetition, why are you in a debate if all you can do is keep on repeating the same worn out claim? Change the record and come up with something more constructive.

so what is the mechanism that evolution is driven by...  

God & Sin

The question has been asked why does god allow sin? Quite simple to understand, really, when you read various accounts in the Bible, more specifically the accounts of atrocities of the Israelites during their journey to the so called Promised Land, God portrays himself as the epitome of sin, of genocide, of infanticide, of paedophilia. Following are a few extracts from the book of Joshua:

Joshua 6:21  ‘They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.’

Joshua 10:10 (concerning the city of Gibeon): ‘The Lord threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory…Israel pursued them along the road…and cut them down….as they fled the Lord hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.’

Joshua 10:28 ‘Joshua took Makkedah. He put the city and its king to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it. He left no survivors.’

Joshua 10:29 ‘Then Joshua and all Israel moved on to Libnah…the Lord gave that city into in to Israels hands. The city and everyone it it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there.’

Numbers 31:17: (Concerning Midian where the Lord instructs the Israelites)…‘Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man., but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.’
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What kind of loving, caring father is this God? Evilness in the extreme. Would it not have been kinder to tell the Israelites to appraise them of their God, instruct and teach them the ‘Word?’ It seems not, for death and destruction are his Names. We see signs of this in very many stories throughout the OT. And Satan is maligned and called evil?
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HF, evolution was driven by the necessiry to adapt to various and changing environments and climates. Natural selection would have figuered in this process, the survival of the fittest and those who were able to adapt by changes in the body structure.

stardesk wrote:God & Sin

The question has been asked why does god allow sin? Quite simple to understand, really, when you read various accounts in the Bible, more specifically the accounts of atrocities of the Israelites during their journey to the so called Promised Land, God portrays himself as the epitome of sin, of genocide, of infanticide, of paedophilia. Following are a few extracts from the book of Joshua:

Joshua 6:21  ‘They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.’

Joshua 10:10 (concerning the city of Gibeon): ‘The Lord threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory…Israel pursued them along the road…and cut them down….as they fled the Lord hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.’

Joshua 10:28 ‘Joshua took Makkedah. He put the city and its king to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it. He left no survivors.’

Joshua 10:29 ‘Then Joshua and all Israel moved on to Libnah…the Lord gave that city into in to Israels hands. The city and everyone it it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there.’

Numbers 31:17: (Concerning Midian where the Lord instructs the Israelites)…‘Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man., but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.’
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What kind of loving, caring father is this God? Evilness in the extreme. Would it not have been kinder to tell the Israelites to appraise them of their God, instruct and teach them the ‘Word?’ It seems not, for death and destruction are his Names. We see signs of this in very many stories throughout the OT. And Satan is maligned and called evil?
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HF, evolution was driven by the necessiry to adapt to various and changing environments and climates. Natural selection would have figuered in this process, the survival of the fittest and those who were able to adapt by changes in the body structure.

ha ha ha how does natural selection change a species in to another...  

What, nothing to say about sin, HF?

Expanding on an interpretation of Natural selection, genomes and DNA, among other things, cause changes in a species, usually generated by changes in the environment, climate, and food resources. That is a 'natural' process, that process has obviously 'selected' the best way forward.

stardesk wrote:What, nothing to say about sin, HF?

Expanding on an interpretation of Natural selection, genomes and DNA, among other things, cause changes in a species, usually generated by changes in the environment, climate, and food resources. That is a 'natural' process, that process has obviously 'selected' the best way forward.

selective wording eh, within a species, not to another species...  

sin yes lots to say about sin, it can all be forgiven if you just accept Jesus as you Lord and Saviour...  

Worshpping Jesus does not absolve God from the evilness he generated in the Israelites. See the above accounts.

stardesk wrote:Worshpping Jesus does not absolve God from the evilness he generated in the Israelites. See the above accounts.

I've seen them all before, i've debated them all before...  

why do yo worship the sun , moon or earth??

HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

stardesk wrote:HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

oh sorry is it mother earth who offers us her bounty...lol

evolution is no proven fact..lol found any mutations, did you find out about the colour of the eyes of these ancestral apes of ours??

heavenly father wrote:

stardesk wrote:HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

oh sorry is it mother earth who offers us her bounty...lol

evolution is no proven fact..lol found any mutations, did you find out about the colour of the eyes of these ancestral apes of ours??

There's a lot of proof of evolution ... as you've been told. You're just obstinate. But to address the eye color question, eyes are made of soft tissues, there's really no way they could have been preserved well enough naturally to provide that information.

Hi Ben. Quite right about eye tissues not being preserved. Being flesh and tissue they soon rot down and don't fossilize like bones.

HF, most animals and especially primates have brown eyes and early man probably also had brown ones.

Being flippant, can you wiggle your ears? Of course you can as we all can, just like most animals. An ability left over from our more animal-like ancestors.

stardesk wrote:Hi Ben. Quite right about eye tissues not being preserved. Being flesh and tissue they soon rot down and don't fossilize like bones.

HF, most animals and especially primates have brown eyes and early man probably also had brown ones.

Being flippant, can you wiggle your ears? Of course you can as we all can, just like most animals. An ability left over from our more animal-like ancestors.

You can wiggle your ears??

Doctor Xavier will have his eyes on you

Does God allow sin? Of course not. Our minds think both positive and negative thoughts. Sometimes those thoughts are transmitted into actions, whether good or sinful, according to how we react to an outside stimulus, and of course the mood we're in at the time. God doesn't come in to it. We have choices haven't we. I'm basically a good person but yes, I've had sinful thoughts and done sinful deeds, just like everyone else.