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Concept of 'white privilege' will make white working class children suffer even more in school, professor tells MPs

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Post by Didgee on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 pm


  • 'White privilege' and 'toxic masculinity' concepts suggest children 'are to blame'

  • Prof Matthew Goodwin made the comments to the Education Select Committee

  • He warned that white working class communities face a 'status deficit'

  • Prof Diane Reay also said the working classes had a 'sense of being left behind'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8835391/Concept-white-privilege-make-white-working-class-children-suffer-school-MPs-hear.html

Concept of 'white privilege' will make white working class children suffer even more in school, professor tells MPs EjQ3PTQXsAEWGI_?format=jpg&name=900x900

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:40 pm

Who is saying that the concept of white privilege is about guilt?

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Post by Maddog on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:52 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Who is saying that the concept of white privilege is about guilt?


Here I need to say the paradoxical opposite of what I said previously: You are alone. Your struggle with guilt will have much in common with that of others, and listening to their experiences will surely be of help. But there’s not a manual for guilt that we follow in 1-2-3 order. As with grief—which is quite often interwoven with guilt, and which I hear in your guilt—you have to find your way your way.

So, as you read what follows, do so meditatively, prayerfully, and mindfully. Listen for what resonates with you and what feels dissonant. Notice the “yes, that feels right” and the “no, that doesn’t” that happen in your body. Remember that it’s normal to feel uneasy or uncomfortable in relation to new perspectives. But stay present with yourself, and keep listening. Listen for the inner knowing that’s deeper than comfortable or uncomfortable, deeper than yes or no. And trust this deep knowing. It’s what’s gifted you with this question and the wisdom to seek support. Let it help you as you feel your way forward into a different relationship with guilt and with yourself as a white person.



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spirit-in-session/202006/what-do-i-do-my-white-guilt

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:56 pm

That says you might experience guilt as a white person - it doesn't say that you should. Who says you should?

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Post by Didgee on Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:05 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:That says you might experience guilt as a white person - it doesn't say that you should. Who says you should?


https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/nobody-systemically-racist/

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/beginners-curriculum-critical-race-theory/

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/

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Post by Maddog on Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:29 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:That says you might experience guilt as a white person - it doesn't say that you should. Who says you should?

I think it's suggesting that you probably should. I mean you did have an advantage through no special talent of your own.

I actually believe in white privilege. I know I had it easier than a black man my age.

I also know it's being used for political gain by the hard left, and they don't really want to correct the problem. It's too valuable.

Guilt is a powerful tool for manipulation.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:00 am

Maddog wrote:I also know it's being used for political gain by the hard left, and they don't really want to correct the problem. It's too valuable.

RW projection is very interesting.  They take all the nasty things that they would not hesitate to do, and project it onto the so-called "hard left".

Yet they turn around and call the LW snowflakes.

RW and LW represent two different, non-diametrical things.  The RW stands for selfishness and special interests, and the LW stands for the common interest and problem solving.  They are not even pulling on the same rope, let alone mirror images.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:16 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Who is saying that the concept of white privilege is about guilt?


Here I need to say the paradoxical opposite of what I said previously: You are alone. Your struggle with guilt will have much in common with that of others, and listening to their experiences will surely be of help. But there’s not a manual for guilt that we follow in 1-2-3 order. As with grief—which is quite often interwoven with guilt, and which I hear in your guilt—you have to find your way your way.

So, as you read what follows, do so meditatively, prayerfully, and mindfully. Listen for what resonates with you and what feels dissonant. Notice the “yes, that feels right” and the “no, that doesn’t” that happen in your body. Remember that it’s normal to feel uneasy or uncomfortable in relation to new perspectives. But stay present with yourself, and keep listening. Listen for the inner knowing that’s deeper than comfortable or uncomfortable, deeper than yes or no. And trust this deep knowing. It’s what’s gifted you with this question and the wisdom to seek support. Let it help you as you feel your way forward into a different relationship with guilt and with yourself as a white person.



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spirit-in-session/202006/what-do-i-do-my-white-guilt



My inner self has a strong feeling that there is a lot of bullshit going on...!



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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 am

Didgee wrote:

  • 'White privilege' and 'toxic masculinity' concepts suggest children 'are to blame'

  • Prof Matthew Goodwin made the comments to the Education Select Committee

  • He warned that white working class communities face a 'status deficit'

  • Prof Diane Reay also said the working classes had a 'sense of being left behind'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8835391/Concept-white-privilege-make-white-working-class-children-suffer-school-MPs-hear.html

Concept of 'white privilege' will make white working class children suffer even more in school, professor tells MPs EjQ3PTQXsAEWGI_?format=jpg&name=900x900



Some of the comments on the article link are absolutely brilliant!!!



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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:19 am




we are all equal but some are more equal than others




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Post by inmyopinion on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:21 am

Didgee wrote:

  • 'White privilege' and 'toxic masculinity' concepts suggest children 'are to blame'

  • Prof Matthew Goodwin made the comments to the Education Select Committee

  • He warned that white working class communities face a 'status deficit'

  • Prof Diane Reay also said the working classes had a 'sense of being left behind'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8835391/Concept-white-privilege-make-white-working-class-children-suffer-school-MPs-hear.html

Concept of 'white privilege' will make white working class children suffer even more in school, professor tells MPs EjQ3PTQXsAEWGI_?format=jpg&name=900x900

white privilege has always been a myth, all people struggle with poverty, it does not matter what colour you are,

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Post by Maddog on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:I also know it's being used for political gain by the hard left, and they don't really want to correct the problem. It's too valuable.

RW projection is very interesting.  They take all the nasty things that they would not hesitate to do, and project it onto the so-called "hard left".

Yet they turn around and call the LW snowflakes.

RW and LW represent two different, non-diametrical things.  The RW stands for selfishness and special interests, and the LW stands for the common interest and problem solving.  They are not even pulling on the same rope, let alone mirror images.

The hard left is about using and propagating victim hood for political gain. You are a prime example. You dont want marginalized groups to achieve more success, as then they cant be used and exploited.

And when you quote me, use my entire post.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

RW projection is very interesting. They take all the nasty things that they would not hesitate to do, and project it onto the so-called "hard left".

Yet they turn around and call the LW snowflakes.

RW and LW represent two different, non-diametrical things. The RW stands for selfishness and special interests, and the LW stands for the common interest and problem solving. They are not even pulling on the same rope, let alone mirror images.

The hard left is about using and propagating victim hood for political gain. You are a prime example. You dont want marginalized groups to achieve more success, as then they cant be used and exploited.

And when you quote me, use my entire post.

I admit, I punch back. That's because for years I was a Republican, and the habit settled in permanently. But since I've seen the truth of liberal causes, I've changed my mind on content...but I am still left in fighting mood. I like to bloody a few noses...I'll watch the left's flanks, while they go about solving the problems.

Most of the hard left doesn't want to fight. That's why the hard-right calls them snowflakes. The left wants to fix things, to make things better for the common weal. That's why I say, not only are they different than the right, but they are not even pulling on the same rope in the tug-o-war of life.

The right is self-interested. That's why it occurs to them that life is in any way a competition...someone is out to get their goodies! Then they project their own mood and motives onto others: if the right is selfish, then the rest of the world must be selfish too.

Sorry Charley. The LW is out to fix things. Christ was the first humanist philosopher, but the left carries on the same legacy: fix things that are inhumane, so that the lives of those following can be better.

Self-interest is dead, and the right is dying out.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by inmyopinion on Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The hard left is about using and propagating victim hood for political gain.  You are a prime example. You dont want marginalized groups to achieve more success, as then they cant be used and exploited.

And when you quote me, use my entire post.

I admit, I punch back.  That's because for years I was a Republican, and the habit settled in permanently.  But since I've seen the truth of liberal causes, I've changed my mind on content...but I am still left in fighting mood.  I like to bloody a few noses...I'll watch the left's flanks, while they go about solving the problems.

Most of the hard left doesn't want to fight.  That's why the hard-right calls them snowflakes.  The left wants to fix things, to make things better for the common weal.  That's why I say, not only are they different than the right, but they are not even pulling on the same rope in the tug-o-war of life.

The right is self-interested.  That's why it occurs to them that life is in any way a competition...someone is out to get their goodies!  Then they project their own mood and motives onto others: if the right is selfish, then the rest of the world must be selfish too.

Sorry Charley.  The LW is out to fix things.  Christ was the first humanist philosopher, but the left carries on the same legacy: fix things that are inhumane, so that the lives of those following can be better.

Self-interest is dead, and the right is dying out.

wow, your grasp on reality, your own twisted, perverted reality that is, is shocking, shockingly wrong, what has antifa, blm ad nausea "fixed"

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Post by Maddog on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The hard left is about using and propagating victim hood for political gain.  You are a prime example. You dont want marginalized groups to achieve more success, as then they cant be used and exploited.

And when you quote me, use my entire post.

I admit, I punch back.  That's because for years I was a Republican, and the habit settled in permanently.  But since I've seen the truth of liberal causes, I've changed my mind on content...but I am still left in fighting mood.  I like to bloody a few noses...I'll watch the left's flanks, while they go about solving the problems.

Most of the hard left doesn't want to fight.  That's why the hard-right calls them snowflakes.  The left wants to fix things, to make things better for the common weal.  That's why I say, not only are they different than the right, but they are not even pulling on the same rope in the tug-o-war of life.

The right is self-interested.  That's why it occurs to them that life is in any way a competition...someone is out to get their goodies!  Then they project their own mood and motives onto others: if the right is selfish, then the rest of the world must be selfish too.

Sorry Charley.  The LW is out to fix things.  Christ was the first humanist philosopher, but the left carries on the same legacy: fix things that are inhumane, so that the lives of those following can be better.

Self-interest is dead, and the right is dying out.

You couldn't punch your way out of a wet paper bag.

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Post by eddie on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:13 pm

From my five years experience working in an educational setting, and being a school governor, I can tell you that white English boys, born in the summer, always did far worse in school than any other race or colour.

Footnote: being born in the summer means you are younger than your classmates therefore putting you at a disadvantage.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:14 pm

The far-right in America, by which I mean the mainstream Republican Party, certainly doesn't seem to suffer from this supposed problem the so-called hard left is alleged to have, because it moves aggressively to make abortion impossible, strip protections away from marginalized groups, etc. I suppose the far right is more idealistic than the far left? Though I think they probably want to campaign on rescinding Roe v. Wade and Obergefell v. Hodges.

Then again, the left fought hard for Obamacare and won in the end. So maybe they want to solve problems as much as any other reasonable person?

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Post by Maddog on Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:49 pm

I do think that white boys are probably overlooked by a system with a great deal of liberal bias. I mean you're a white male. Your problems are always minor and inconsequential because you have the advantage of white privilege.

Stop whining and suck it boy. At least you're not black or a female. Amiright?

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:27 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I admit, I punch back.  That's because for years I was a Republican, and the habit settled in permanently.  But since I've seen the truth of liberal causes, I've changed my mind on content...but I am still left in fighting mood.  I like to bloody a few noses...I'll watch the left's flanks, while they go about solving the problems.

Most of the hard left doesn't want to fight.  That's why the hard-right calls them snowflakes.  The left wants to fix things, to make things better for the common weal.  That's why I say, not only are they different than the right, but they are not even pulling on the same rope in the tug-o-war of life.

The right is self-interested.  That's why it occurs to them that life is in any way a competition...someone is out to get their goodies!  Then they project their own mood and motives onto others: if the right is selfish, then the rest of the world must be selfish too.

Sorry Charley.  The LW is out to fix things.  Christ was the first humanist philosopher, but the left carries on the same legacy: fix things that are inhumane, so that the lives of those following can be better.

Self-interest is dead, and the right is dying out.

You couldn't punch your way out of a wet paper bag.

Says the little guy with a gun. You can't even keep a woman, let alone match a man. Piss off loser...

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:13 am

Maddog wrote:I do think that white boys are probably overlooked by a system with a great deal of liberal bias. I mean you're a white male. Your problems are always minor and inconsequential because you have the advantage of white privilege.

Stop whining and suck it boy. At least you're not black or a female. Amiright?  

It sounds right, though obviously it would be denied by any "official" sources.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

You couldn't punch your way out of a wet paper bag.

Says the little guy with a gun.  You can't even keep a woman, let alone match a man.  Piss off loser...


Good one old man. Talk to your daughter lately or is she still ignoring you? clown

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:03 pm

Once again, you can't stay on message. Your focus is entirely on me. Jealousy is a sign of low self-esteem, as well as feelings of insecurity and possessiveness.

I only bring up your 'ex' because that is a crucial sign: Feelings of inadequacy in your relationship: generally fearing that you’re not good enough for your partner.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/close-encounters/201410/whats-really-behind-jealousy-and-what-do-about-it

It is obvious that you have a deep-seated problem. You will always be swinging until you get to the problem. Seek help.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:Once again, you can't stay on message.  Your focus is entirely on me.  Jealousy is a sign of low self-esteem, as well as feelings of insecurity and possessiveness.

I only bring up your 'ex' because that is a crucial sign: Feelings of inadequacy in your relationship: generally fearing that you’re not good enough for your partner.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/close-encounters/201410/whats-really-behind-jealousy-and-what-do-about-it

It is obvious that you have a deep-seated problem.  You will always be swinging until you get to the problem.  Seek help.

I stay on message just fine except when dealing with a lying sack of shit. Fortunately, this forum only has one of those.

So I can have intelligent conversations when I like and nasty ones with you.


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Post by Vintage on Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Isn't there ------- (insert your choice: colour/ethnicity/religion/politics/wealth) privilege were ever you go. If you go to a predominately religious country for instance and you are a non believer isn't it probable that your choices in education or jobs may be lacking or limited. Surely there has to be Muslim privilege, Nigerian privilege, etc. The white privilege in this country should be called wealth privilege. I read a story about the first black officer in the British army in the first world war, which was an achievement but just think about it how many working class or even middle class people of any colour ever got to be in the officer class. If anyone did manage it was an entirely up hill 'battle' all the way. Everywhere has its particular privilege and its under privileged.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:24 pm

Vintage wrote:Isn't there ------- (insert your choice: colour/ethnicity/religion/politics/wealth) privilege were ever you go. If you go to a predominately religious country for instance and you are a non believer isn't it probable that your choices in education or jobs may be lacking or limited. Surely there has to be Muslim privilege, Nigerian privilege, etc. The white privilege in this country should be called wealth privilege. I read a story about the first black officer in the British army in the first world war, which was an achievement but just think about it how many working class or even middle class people of any colour ever got to be in the officer class. If anyone did manage it was an entirely up hill 'battle' all the way. Everywhere has its particular privilege and its under privileged.

Depending on who talk to, there is all manner of privilege.

Not just white.

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:27 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Once again, you can't stay on message.  Your focus is entirely on me.  Jealousy is a sign of low self-esteem, as well as feelings of insecurity and possessiveness.

I only bring up your 'ex' because that is a crucial sign: Feelings of inadequacy in your relationship: generally fearing that you’re not good enough for your partner.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/close-encounters/201410/whats-really-behind-jealousy-and-what-do-about-it

It is obvious that you have a deep-seated problem.  You will always be swinging until you get to the problem.  Seek help.

I stay on message just fine except when dealing with a lying sack of shit.  Fortunately, this forum only has one of those.  

No, you don't.  That is the point.  It is evident that you are obsessed with me.  I don't think you are gay (gays are much more insightful)...I can only surmise that you are jealous.

Maddog wrote:So I can have intelligent conversations when I like and nasty ones with you.

As I said, you are obsessed with me.  Cool

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I stay on message just fine except when dealing with a lying sack of shit.  Fortunately, this forum only has one of those.  

No, you don't.  That is the point.  It is evident that you are obsessed with me.  I don't think you are gay (gays are much more insightful)...I can only surmise that you are jealous.

Maddog wrote:So I can have intelligent conversations when I like and nasty ones with you.

As I said, you are obsessed with me.  Cool


I have contempt for you.

Don't like the way I talk to you?

Ignore me.

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:33 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No, you don't.  That is the point.  It is evident that you are obsessed with me.  I don't think you are gay (gays are much more insightful)...I can only surmise that you are jealous.



As I said, you are obsessed with me.  Cool

I have contempt for you.

Don't like the way I talk to you?  

Ignore me.  

I don't mind it at all.  It is an interesting case study.  You have no agency that reaches me or angers me; you are an object to be studied.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I have contempt for you.

Don't like the way I talk to you?  

Ignore me.  

I don't mind it at all.  It is an interesting case study.  You have no agency that reaches me or angers me; you are an object to be studied.

There you go. Don't bitch about my insults to you then. Consider it a case study.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:27 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't mind it at all. It is an interesting case study. You have no agency that reaches me or angers me; you are an object to be studied.

There you go. Don't bitch about my insults to you then. Consider it a case study.

I've really never bitched about your insults. When I want to carry on, or hear your opinion on the subject matter, I will point out to you your 'mission-creep' over into personal insults. But that is because I want you to get back on track. It’s actually disappointing to me when you go off topic, because I wanted to hear a clear argument from the other side (if one can be had). Everyone benefits from a good debate.

Sometimes, when you go off track, I comment on the ways and whys of your straying. I did the same with didge, and it has helped him. I don't know, I am so familiar with argument modes that I can even categorize the style of someone, and I want them to benefit from recognition or study of what they are doing. They benefit from someone pointing out that they are committing a tu quoque fallacy, or a red herring fallacy or a slippery slope fallacy. It sharpens the skills.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

There you go. Don't bitch about my insults to you then. Consider it a case study.  

I've really never bitched about your insults.  When I want to carry on, or hear your opinion on the subject matter, I will point out to you your 'mission-creep' over into personal insults.  But that is because I want you to get back on track.  It’s actually disappointing to me when you go off topic, because I wanted to hear a clear argument from the other side (if one can be had).  Everyone benefits from a good debate.

Sometimes, when you go off track, I comment on the ways and whys of your straying.  I did the same with didge, and it has helped him.  I don't know, I am so familiar with argument modes that I can even categorize the style of someone, and I want them to benefit from recognition or study of what they are doing.  They benefit from someone pointing out that they are committing a tu quoque fallacy, or a red herring fallacy or a slippery slope fallacy.  It sharpens the skills.

K

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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