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Death penalty? yes/no

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Post by inmyopinion on Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:58 pm

Does it work, is it warranted, who should decide?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:00 pm

Nope. I don't trust governments to get the right person.

I'm not opposed to killing some pieces of trash, I just can't take then chance that the government will always get the right one.

We have freed too many people from death row over here, after new evidence.

Hell, we have VP candidate that withheld evidence in death penalty case.

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Post by inmyopinion on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:04 pm

Maddog wrote:Nope. I don't trust governments to get the right person.

I'm not opposed to killing some pieces of trash, I just can't take then chance that the government will always get the right one.

We have freed too many people from death row over here, after new evidence.  

Hell, we have  VP candidate that withheld evidence in death penalty case.  

I think the evidence has to be cast iron to make the sentence possible but 80 plus years in prison must be crazy

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:46 pm

This is probably one of the most difficult questions of all.

When one thinks of that appalling pair Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe or that trio of scum who recently dragged a policeman to death behind their car my reaction, I think, would be "please may I pull the gallows lever?"

But then there are the tragic miscarriages of justice that cost the innocent and intellectually disadvantaged Timothy John Evans or the abused and emotionally damaged Ruth Ellis their lives....
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Post by Victorismyhero on Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:49 pm

Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be hanged

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Post by Syl on Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:10 pm

I do believe in the death penalty for the most heinous of crimes'
For eg reading about the rape of a baby on here the other day...by her father, who pissed about on the internet for an hour as the poor babe was left dying in agony and bleeding to death, YES....get rid of scum like that, he doesn't deserve to breathe.

People like Hindley, Brady, Sutcliffe, terrorists, who are caught red handed, where there is NO doubt at all that they committed the crimes, an injection, quick and painless, would save decades of torment for the families they continue to torture whilst incarcerated.

I am again thinking of people like the Moors murderers, who left the families living in false hope that they may release the information of where the bodies of their children were buried, who managed to still dominate headlines and have do-gooders pleading their cases for decades after they were incarcerated.....they should have been disposed off as soon as they were found guilty.

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Post by Syl on Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:18 pm

And for people who say the death penalty is too barbaric, then go on to say it's too quick and easy, let them live with the knowledge they will spend their lives in jail, that to me is just revenge.

The death penalty is not revenge it's justice It's a quick and simple solution, and it also must lessen the pain of the victims left behind, who wont be tormented for the rest of their lives by reading about the perpetrators  latest escapade in prison, or which bleeding heart do-gooder is campaigning for their rights.

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Post by Vintage on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:43 pm

I agree with the categories for the death penalty you mentioned, although for the baby rapist and the likes of Brady a simple injection is just too humane for their crimes.

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:45 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:This is probably one of the most difficult questions of all.

When one thinks of that appalling pair Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe or that trio of scum who recently dragged a policeman to death behind their car my reaction, I think, would be "please may I pull the gallows lever?"

But then there are the tragic miscarriages of justice that cost the innocent and intellectually disadvantaged Timothy John Evans or the abused and emotionally damaged Ruth Ellis their lives....

The mistakes always come up and rightly so but it seems the long sentences cost a fortune and help no one, perhaps a swift drop or injection is the way, it might not stop criminals, it will stop second offenders.

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:46 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be hanged

even if those guilty people kill again??

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:47 pm

Syl wrote:And for people who say the death penalty is too barbaric, then go on to say it's too quick and easy, let them live with the knowledge they will spend their lives in jail, that to me is just revenge.

The death penalty is not revenge it's justice It's a quick and simple solution, and it also must lessen the pain of the victims left behind, who wont be tormented for the rest of their lives by reading about the perpetrators  latest escapade in prison, or which bleeding heart do-gooder is campaigning for their rights.

I agree

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:39 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:This is probably one of the most difficult questions of all.

When one thinks of that appalling pair Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe or that trio of scum who recently dragged a policeman to death behind their car my reaction, I think, would be "please may I pull the gallows lever?"

But then there are the tragic miscarriages of justice that cost the innocent and intellectually disadvantaged Timothy John Evans or the abused and emotionally damaged Ruth Ellis their lives....

You have to weigh the values. How do you feel, Fred?

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Post by inmyopinion on Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:This is probably one of the most difficult questions of all.

When one thinks of that appalling pair Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe or that trio of scum who recently dragged a policeman to death behind their car my reaction, I think, would be "please may I pull the gallows lever?"

But then there are the tragic miscarriages of justice that cost the innocent and intellectually disadvantaged Timothy John Evans or the abused and emotionally damaged Ruth Ellis their lives....

You have to weigh the values.  How do you feel, Fred?

So is it a moral dilemma or on a case to case basis?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:50 pm

I don't support the death penalty despite the fact that I can read about a horrific crime and think that the perpetrator deserves to die.

The penal system should be devoid of emotion. If someone is found to be too dangerous to be allowed in society, lock them away safely.

Outside of self-defense, killing is for killers, and when the government does it, it makes an accomplice out of everyone who pays taxes.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:53 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I don't support the death penalty despite the fact that I can read about a horrific crime and think that the perpetrator deserves to die.

The penal system should be devoid of emotion. If someone is found to be too dangerous to be allowed in society, lock them away safely.

Outside of self-defense, killing is for killers, and when the government does it, it makes an accomplice out of everyone who pays taxes.

Drones in Yemen?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:57 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I don't support the death penalty despite the fact that I can read about a horrific crime and think that the perpetrator deserves to die.

The penal system should be devoid of emotion. If someone is found to be too dangerous to be allowed in society, lock them away safely.

Outside of self-defense, killing is for killers, and when the government does it, it makes an accomplice out of everyone who pays taxes.

Drones in Yemen?

Yep!

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Post by Maddog on Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:33 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Drones in Yemen?

Yep!

You don't have much choice in taxes. You do in terms of voting for people who use drones all over the planet to export "freedom".

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:20 am

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:This is probably one of the most difficult questions of all.

When one thinks of that appalling pair Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe or that trio of scum who recently dragged a policeman to death behind their car my reaction, I think, would be "please may I pull the gallows lever?"

But then there are the tragic miscarriages of justice that cost the innocent and intellectually disadvantaged Timothy John Evans or the abused and emotionally damaged Ruth Ellis their lives....

You have to weigh the values.  How do you feel, Fred?

I think if I were forced to make a choice I would very reluctantly come down on the side of no death penalty on the basis of Blackstone's Ratio, to which Vic has already referred. The ghost of Timothy Evans would always be at the back of my mind.

Perhaps the wilful murder of police officers should not be entirely dismissed, although I appreciate that given recent tragic events in the USA it might well be an argument difficult to pursue with any degree of rationality. Having said that, a serious attempt to murder my own brother was made during the miners' strike of the 1980's when someone dropped a heavy steel scaffolding pole from a third floor window that narrowly missed him as it went through the roof of his police car - somewhat ironically, as he was a Coroner's Officer on his way to collect the widow of a miner who had died in hospital from pneumoconiosis as she was required to make the formal identification.

I would have found it virtually impossible to support abolition had the result been different.

Thank heaven that my career choice was as a humble seeker of the truth rather than as a final arbitrator thereof.
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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:28 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Drones in Yemen?

Yep!

You don't have much choice in taxes. You do in terms of voting for people who use drones all over the planet to export "freedom".

I'm not an idealist when it comes to my vote -- I'm not going to waste my life trying to get a third-party president into power. I'll choose the best candidate who has any chance of winning over a pie-in-the-sky vote any day. Perhaps because I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and watched what Bush did, though of course that wasn't my fault Smile

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Post by eddie on Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:40 pm

Hmmmm. Some people on death row do not deserve to be there, others do.

Tough question.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:39 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

You don't have much choice in taxes. You do in terms of voting for people who use drones all over the planet to export "freedom".

I'm not an idealist when it comes to my vote -- I'm not going to waste my life trying to get a third-party president into power. I'll choose the best candidate who has any chance of winning over a pie-in-the-sky vote any day. Perhaps because I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and watched what Bush did, though of course that wasn't my fault Smile

Not unless you lived in Florida and voted about 7,000 times.

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