Terrorist incident in Glasgow?

First topic message reminder :



Reports of people covered in blood and being taken away on stretchers...


Police made people leave the store with their hands in the air...

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Sweet Jesus the fucktard can spew vomit all over a thread.

I think the best response to him is just "shut the fuck up you babbling fuckwad".  

Spoken like an ignorant, southern racist. Just the right amount of virulence and violence to shoot a negro, while sweet-talking the white gurls. Very prototypical.

There are plenty of blacks in the USA who have "just the right amount of virulence and violence to shoot a negro, while sweet-talking the white gurls"...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Spoken like an ignorant, southern racist.  Just the right amount of virulence and violence to shoot a negro, while sweet-talking the white gurls.  Very prototypical.

There are plenty of blacks in the USA who have "just the right amount of virulence and violence to shoot a negro, while sweet-talking the white gurls"...!

Yes, but somehow I think blacks are corrigible.  I think that southern crackers have shown themselves to be incorrigible in their proclivity toward guns and racism.

But murder rates show that around half the murders in usa every year are carried out by blacks and almost all are on other blacks... Although blacks only make up around 13%of population... And almost all of these murders are carried out by black males between the ages of 18-45... While only accounting for about 3% of national population...



And whites are overwhelmingly disproportionately victims of violent crime from blacks... than the other way round...


But you don't like the facts that show whites are more likely to be victims of blacks... As it doesn't suit your twisted bullshit agenda...

Tommy Monk wrote:But murder rates show that around half the murders in usa every year are carried out by blacks and almost all are on other blacks... Although blacks only make up around 13%of population... And almost all of these murders are carried out by black males between the ages of 18-45... While only accounting for about 3%  of national population...

And whites are overwhelmingly disproportionately victims of violent crime from blacks... than the other way round...

But you don't like the facts that show whites are more likely to be victims of blacks... As it doesn't suit your twisted bullshit agenda...

Could you be more specific? I really don't think you've got correct information. I've questioned your statistics before, and you never seem to get around to an answer.

If you think I'm wrong... Then prove it!!!


Should be easy for you if I'm so wrong...

Tommy Monk wrote:

If you think I'm wrong... Then prove it!!!

Should be easy for you if I'm so wrong...

You can't disprove an unstated positive.  That is because there is nothing to disprove.  Until you put forth your evidence, and detail how it proves your case, it's a null hypothesis...nothing exists except empty words.

If you check what I say... You will find it to be either true or false...


If it is false, then you can post the truth...


If it is true... Then it can't be disproved...

It's not a binomiall issue, tommy. You, yourself, have verbally raised several prongs of the question. But empty words do not make a substantiated claim. You need a working hypothesis, data, operationalization of variables, validity and testing.

What is a simple nominal issue is whether or not you have made an evidenced-based claim? You have not.

So you can't show any statistics that prove me wrong...?


Ok...

Tommy Monk wrote:So you can't show any statistics that prove me wrong...?

Ok...

What's worse...you cannot show yourself saying anything.

Ok... I'll indulge you a little bit... And go through it with you...


Let's hit the first nail on the head for starters...


Do you agree that around half of the murders in the USA every year are committed by black people...?


Yes or no?

I dont want to interfere between you two but I was curious myself so looked it up.

In 2018 14.6% of Americans identified as black only or black mix.

Charged with murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.

Total figures. 8,957 White 3,953. Black or African American....4,778.

That shocked me to be honest.



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

Syl wrote:I dont want to interfere between you two but I was curious myself so looked it up.

In 2018 14.6% of Americans identified as black only or black mix.

Charged with murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.

Total figures. 8,957 White 3,953. Black or African American....4,778.

That shocked me to be honest.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

Yes, note the FBI statistics are as to charges only.  People of color in the US are over-stopped, over-arrested, overly-held without bail, over-charged, over-prosecuted, and over-convicted in criminal matters, as contrasted with their numbers in the population.

It's one of the factors that allow us to say, with confidence, that America is an over-racist society, through Jim Crow laws, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, and modern-day discrimination.  All men are not created equal in America.

Syl wrote:I dont want to interfere between you two but I was curious myself so looked it up.

In 2018 14.6% of Americans identified as black only or black mix.

Charged with murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.

Total figures. 8,957 White 3,953. Black or African American....4,778.

That shocked me to be honest.



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

Look up victims too. they are the vast majority of those too.

Look up the total numbers of murders and ethnicity of perpetrators... Not just those charged...


Is about 12,000 murders a year and around half of reported perpetrators are black males between the ages of 18-45...

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:I dont want to interfere between you two but I was curious myself so looked it up.

In 2018 14.6% of Americans identified as black only or black mix.

Charged with murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.

Total figures. 8,957 White 3,953. Black or African American....4,778.

That shocked me to be honest.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

Yes, note the FBI statistics are as to charges only.  People of color in the US are over-stopped, over-arrested, overly-held without bail, over-charged, over-prosecuted, and over-convicted in criminal matters, as contrasted with their numbers in the population.

It's one of the factors that allow us to say, with confidence, that America is an over-racist society, through Jim Crow laws, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, and modern-day discrimination.  All men are not created equal in America.

I did note that was for charges not convictions, I couldn't find an appropriate 
 conviction list.
If you read down the list on the link, most other crimes apart from robbery, whites have a far higher charge rate, ..but then the white  population is much higher.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, note the FBI statistics are as to charges only.  People of color in the US are over-stopped, over-arrested, overly-held without bail, over-charged, over-prosecuted, and over-convicted in criminal matters, as contrasted with their numbers in the population.

It's one of the factors that allow us to say, with confidence, that America is an over-racist society, through Jim Crow laws, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, and modern-day discrimination.  All men are not created equal in America.

I did note that was for charges not convictions, I couldn't find an appropriate 
 conviction list.

Yes, tommy has never been able to produce anything except that incomplete short list of charges, compiled by the FBI.  He's a one-trick pony, with something he got from one of the RW sites he visits.

I'm sure he knows nothing about quantitative analysis. That's why he evades by challenging his adversary to do all the work. Even if he got the right data set, he wouldn't know what to do with it.

I never posted that... ever!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

I never posted that... ever!!!

As I recall, you aggressively refused to post anything.

But you accuse me of posting stuff that I didn't... And adding the tag line that I'm "a one-trick pony, with something he got from one of the RW sites he visits"...




The truth of the matter is, that I have posted some statistics... that you don't like the sound of... but are unable to refute... because the statistics are true!!!



I will try again with you Quill...





Ok... I'll indulge you a little bit... And go through it with you...


Let's hit the first nail on the head for starters...


Do you agree that around half of the murders in the USA every year are committed by black people...?


Yes or no?




????????????????????

I see that Quill has "done an Andy", and run away...

Tommy Monk wrote:But you accuse me of posting stuff that I didn't... And adding the tag line that I'm "a one-trick pony, with something he got from one of the RW sites he visits"...

The truth of the matter is, that I have posted some statistics... that you don't like the sound of... but are unable to refute... because the statistics are true!!!

But your statistics are skewed.  You need to read a small, but very worthy book before you try your hand at statistics: Huff, Darrell, How to Lie With Statistics (1954). https://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

You've already seen one trick, which Syl and I discussed.  You can suppress a statistical tendency by limiting the population pool you survey (instead of arrests, the FBI limits the pool to charged).  Other tricks abound.

This is the reason why you can't just throw a conclusion out there, without providing all the back-up data to the argument (it's usually contained in a section typically titled, Methodology).  I call you a 'one-trick pony' because you think statistics can be expressed in the single conclusion.  As Huff makes clear, that’s the game: hide the truth in so many details that the listener gets confused.  There are so many tricks to deceive with statistical arguments, that one has got to bring the whole study--all the methodology--out there for inspection.  This is what you fail to do each time you attempt a statistical argument (probably because it confuses you, too).

"...According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008..."

Tommy Monk wrote:"...According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008..."

And you know how they lie about such things.  The Department of Justice is run by William Barr, the handpicked lawyer for Donald Trump, a classic white supremacist.  Do you think Trump didn't put Barr in place with orders to change the statistical picture regarding crime and punishment in the US?

Billions of dollars go into school lunches, education and housing for underprivileged people.  Republicans typically oppose those funds, wanting rather for that money to go into tax cuts for the rich.  You’ve seen how to lie with statistics. The orders went out: Change the picture!  Make blacks into criminals, not deserving of any assistance whatsoever.  Give that money to the wealthy!

You are just a mouthpiece parroting the line that Trump and the conservatives want out of you.  So, Polly wanna cracker?  

Oh do fuck off Quill... You are in denial about the truth!!!


Tell you what... Why don't you give us the figures then?

Tommy Monk wrote:Oh do fuck off Quill... You are in denial about the truth!!!

Tell you what... Why don't you give us the figures then?

Getting frustrated are ya, tommy? Liberals don't have to lie about black lives, because they are not trying to take all that money for themselves. Here are some objective facts offered by an unbiased, non-governmental organization (NGO):

Between 1980 and 2015, the number of people incarcerated in America increased from roughly 500,000 to over 2.2 million. Today, the United States makes up about 5% of the world’s population and has 21% of the world’s prisoners. One in every 37 adults in the United States, or 2.7% of the adult population, is under some form of correctional supervision.

In 2014, African Americans constituted 2.3 million, or 34%, of the total 6.8 million correctional population. African Americans are incarcerated at more than 5 times the rate of whites. The imprisonment rate for African American women is twice that of white women. Nationwide, African American children represent 32% of children who are arrested, 42% of children who are detained, and 52% of children whose cases are judicially waived to criminal court.

Though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately 32% of the US population, they comprised 56% of all incarcerated people in 2015. If African Americans and Hispanics were incarcerated at the same rates as whites, prison and jail populations would decline by almost 40%. In other words, we have to work to get people of color out of our white way.

And what effect does this have on our people of color? A criminal record can reduce the likelihood of a callback or job offer by nearly 50 percent. The negative impact of a criminal record is twice as large for African American applicants.

In addition, infectious diseases are highly concentrated in corrections facilities: 15% of jail inmates and 22% of prisoners – compared to 5% of the general population – reported ever having tuberculosis, Hepatitis B and C, HIV/AIDS, or other STDs.

How much do these white supremacist policies cost the US? In 2012 alone, the United States spent nearly $81 billion on corrections. Spending on prisons and jails has increased at triple the rate of spending on Pre‐K‐12 public education in the last thirty years. Yet, if we put the monies in public education, and generated the equivalent in well-educated citizens, we could greatly add to the gross national product, instead of detracting from it.

https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Theta not the figures I asked you for...

How does the American white supremacist approach to criminal justice affect wealth in America? Well, let's take a look:

Over 2.2 million individuals are in jail or prison in the United States. Approximately 95% of incarcerated individuals are eventually released into local communities nationwide. Nearly half of Black males and almost 40 percent of white males are arrested by the time they are 23 years old.

As of 2007, more than half of those incarcerated were parents of children under the age of 18. The number of Americans with criminal records is about the same as the number of Americans with a 4-year degree. Although illicit drug use is approximately the same for African Americans as it is for white people, African Americans are much more likely to be arrested for drug use.

What is the effect? Finding stable employment is crucial to ensuring that individuals do not reoffend. Having a record reduces the likelihood of a job callback or offer by as much as 50 percent.

White men with a criminal record are more likely to get an interview than Black men with no criminal record. Reduced employment for the millions of people with records costs America $78 to $87 billion each year.

http://www.naacp.org/fairchancehiring/

Tommy Monk wrote:


Oh do fuck off Quill... You are in denial about the truth!!!


Tell you what... Why don't you give us the figures then?

Or just say this.

"shut the fuck up you babbling fuckwad"

Maddog wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Oh do fuck off Quill... You are in denial about the truth!!!

Tell you what... Why don't you give us the figures then?

Or just say this.  

"shut the fuck up you babbling fuckwad"

Yeah tommy, behave like a southerner. Fook learning about statistics. All you gotta learn is, kill all black folk who act uppity, open-carry your gun, and use your neighbors for target shooting.

"shut the fuck up you babbling fuckwad"

Maddog wrote:"shut the fuck up you babbling fuckwad"

This is the southern response. Abuse with a hint of violence. It is also the flavor of southerners in general...why we should get rid of them. They are the original "Ugly" Americans.

I shouldn't laugh at you two, but......

I mean, who talks like that...especially when the purpose of the site is to discuss things rationally?

BUT there's Rationally and then there's Waffle !

nicko wrote: BUT there's Rationally and then there's Waffle !

Yeah, but nick...Waffle means that you don't like what they are saying on the other side.

Like, if they've got you...what do you say? Waffle.

No ones "got me" Quill, I'm my own Master !

Tommy Monk wrote:



But you accuse me of posting stuff that I didn't... And adding the tag line that I'm "a one-trick pony, with something he got from one of the RW sites he visits"...




The truth of the matter is, that I have posted some statistics... that you don't like the sound of... but are unable to refute... because the statistics are true!!!



I will try again with you Quill...





Ok... I'll indulge you a little bit... And go through it with you...


Let's hit the first nail on the head for starters...


Do you agree that around half of the murders in the USA every year are committed by black people...?


Yes or no?




????????????????????

Well Quill...???


Yes or no???

Tommy Monk wrote:Do you agree that around half of the murders in the USA every year are committed by black people...?

"Committed"?  I don’t believe it.  But we'll never know until the American criminal justice system adjusts to become fair and impartial where black people are concerned.    I believe that the white supremacist streak in all of us wants to believe that blacks are evil.  But I can’t agree to such bias and bigotry.

"Accused?"  Black folks are accused of all sorts of things, and readily lynched on-the-spot for the same.  That's on the white supremacists.  What did George Floyd do wrong, that he suffered an execution?  What did Ahmaud Arbery do wrong, for which he was executed?  Just as the white power structure tried to cover up these murders—blame the victim—so most statistics regarding this issue are skewed—blame the black guy.

The cover-up is part of the game of discrimination.

Well there you have it.

Statistics matter when they confirm your biases.

Maddog wrote:Well there you have it.

Statistics matter when they confirm your biases.

Unless you do it correctly. There are rules, which are taught in statistics classes. Again, I recommend: Huff, Darrell, How to Lie with Statistics (1954). The book runs the gamut of every popularly-used type of statistic, probes such things as the sample study, the tabulation method, the interview technique, or the way the results are derived from the figures, and points up the countless number of dodges which are used to fool rather than to inform.

It is this latter use that has led to the heavy emphasis on clear methodology in quantitative studies, which is the favorite means of disinformatia of those who want to build on confusion and division. Southerners, for example, will always resort to twisted and inappropriate statistics in order to justify their racist practices. See, Brady, John, Bad Boy
The Life and Politics of Lee Atwater (1997). https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/badboy.htm

Ask him the time and he starts trying to tell you how to make a watch...



What a complete twat!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Ask him the time and he starts trying to tell you how to make a watch...

What a complete twat!

Tom, you need help with basics. That is always going to require more time and effort. Whereas with others, we may assume completion of grades 1 thru 12, with you there are many lapses...beginning with the belief that nature is a someone with "purposes".

With statistical argument, I begin with Darrell Huff, How to Lie With Statistics. How's that going? I give you books in lieu of taking the time and effort to write it all down myself. I hope you keep it up.

Yawn...

Maddog wrote:What does a question mark at the end of a sentence indicate?

It can mean a lot of things apart from the obvious, MD.  

It denotes a certain hesitancy, timidity?

Or it's when someone is gently trying to suggest an idea.

Or when a phrase  says a lot more than meets the eye - ie has the same function as an ellipsis (yep, them 3 dots)


It could also denote Uptalk / Upspeak - when people say everything as if they are asking a question??  > >




Like I said it can mean a lot of things!  

You did ask!!!    

The asking of a question is a way of starting a rumor, as in: 'Didn't I hear somewhere that Esau is gay, and that his wife has a lesbian lover who is under 10-years of age?'

Try to stop that one from running the conspiracy mill.