So Heartbreaking

Look on the bright side. People are dying less often from other stuff.

Or are they?

Bullshite!

It is heartbreaking.
We just see the statistics, unless someone we have loved is amongst them.

It truly is one of the worst times we have all lived through, future historians will talk of this as one of the worlds worst devastations.

This is just a thought, are there so many people dying that Post Mortems are out of the question, and signing off as Corona virus is the only thing possible ?

nicko wrote:This is just a thought, are there so many people dying that Post Mortems are out of the question, and signing off as Corona virus is the only thing possible ?

Well, it stands to reason that if other causes of death are decreasing that something is getting miscounted or covid is killing people so close to death that they would have died anyway.

That's not to say covid isn't a serious threat, but that some people like to exaggerate the threat for political reasons.

Fear of one thing or another is one the greatest weapons in a politicians arsenal.

Many soldiers in Vietnam and Korea died of diabetes and heart disease.  It just hadn't caught up to them when they caught a pesky bullet.

nicko wrote:This is just a thought, are there so many people dying that Post Mortems are out of the question, and signing off as Corona virus is the only thing possible ?

Happened to my friend’s uncle. He had a heart attack at home and died in the hospital and the doctor told them they were writing the cause of death as Covid19 because the morgue was full and there was no time for a post-mortem. I kid you not, my friend and her family argued with him but that’s what he told them and that’s what his death certificate says.

I did post this up on a thread the day after it happened.

eddie wrote:

nicko wrote:This is just a thought, are there so many people dying that Post Mortems are out of the question, and signing off as Corona virus is the only thing possible ?

Happened to my friend’s uncle. He had a heart attack at home and died in the hospital and the doctor told them they were writing the cause of death as Covid19 because the morgue was full and there was no time for a post-mortem. I kid you not, my friend and her family argued with him but that’s what he told them and that’s what his death certificate says.

I did post this up on a thread  the day after it happened.

There is legal recourse for that. It doesn't matter what the doctor says. It is the Medical Examiner who makes an independent determination.

Of course, if a soul dies in the care of a physician great weight is given to that physician. If the man died at the hospital, the ME will look at the medical records. However, if it is clear in the records that it was a heart attack, the ME will go with that.

I work for a small firm and numbers of funerals have rocketed but I haven't dealt with one case that had had a post mortem since this , we haven't had any vehicular deaths or other accidentals though. Forms have a cause of death - sometimes not covid 19 as the primary but covid is always mentioned ie death occurred in covid 19 virus environment, as a contributory factor in the death.
Hospital deaths have the pathologist only using the medical notes to come to a conclusion, where they would usually only examine and concur with the patients attending doctor's notes.

Vintage wrote:I work for a small firm and numbers of funerals have rocketed but I haven't dealt with one case that had had a post mortem since this , we haven't had any vehicular deaths or other accidentals though. Forms have a cause of death - sometimes not covid 19 as the primary but covid is always mentioned ie death occurred in covid 19 virus environment, as a contributory factor in the death.
Hospital deaths have the pathologist only using the medical notes to come to a conclusion, where they would usually only examine and concur with the patients attending doctor's notes.

So the Covid numbers could be exaggerated?

eddie wrote:

Vintage wrote:I work for a small firm and numbers of funerals have rocketed but I haven't dealt with one case that had had a post mortem since this , we haven't had any vehicular deaths or other accidentals though. Forms have a cause of death - sometimes not covid 19 as the primary but covid is always mentioned ie death occurred in covid 19 virus environment, as a contributory factor in the death.
Hospital deaths have the pathologist only using the medical notes to come to a conclusion, where they would usually only examine and concur with the patients attending doctor's notes.

So the Covid numbers could be exaggerated?

surely not

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:

Vintage wrote:I work for a small firm and numbers of funerals have rocketed but I haven't dealt with one case that had had a post mortem since this , we haven't had any vehicular deaths or other accidentals though. Forms have a cause of death - sometimes not covid 19 as the primary but covid is always mentioned ie death occurred in covid 19 virus environment, as a contributory factor in the death.
Hospital deaths have the pathologist only using the medical notes to come to a conclusion, where they would usually only examine and concur with the patients attending doctor's notes.

So the Covid numbers could be exaggerated?

surely not

I’m just clarifying. I always like to clarify what someone is actually saying.

What do you think about it all?

I think there are probably a lot of people who have died of something other than Covid who are being marked as having died from it, but probably also a lot of other people who died from Covid who weren't recorded as Covid victims.

I can only go by my experience in Texas, where deaths are investigated and recorded by the Medical Examiner's Offices in each county. The office for Fort Worth (Tarrant County) would certainly not be well-staffed enough to handle doing a thorough job if it was several hundred people dying daily -- I used to check their website multiple times during my work shift, and it was a bad day if there were many more than a dozen deaths.

I doubt we'll ever know the true number that have died from Covid, some people are taken into hospital with it, others seem to get it in hospital or care homes but except for some cases that don't seem to have another illness at the time, there are generally other illnesses that they would be likely to die from at some stage so its generally Covid itself or another illness in which Covid has accelerated the proccess.
Regulations for cremation were tightened after the Shipman happening. In hospital the attending doctor gives the cause of death certificate and has to fill in a form setting out the cause of death, contributing factors, any operations in a certain period that have to be taken into account, then the pathologist reads the notes, examines the body and fills in the confirmatory part of the form after speaking to other staff who took care of the person and to the next of kin. Outside hospital the G.P. has to have seen the person within 14 days of death otherwise the coroner has to be involved and often a p.m. is arranged, unless there was a long standing illness which would be expected to cause death. The same form has to be filled and a second doctor who has no connection with the person who has died has to confirm the first doctor's findings. During the Covid outbreak these rules are changed - now only one doctor reviews the notes and issues the certificate and form. In certain circumstances, won't go into them right now, any doctor can issue a certificate. We are also receiving the various forms required by e mail
where as previously you had to go and collect them personally. I assume it will go back to normal once we get control of the virus but who knows.

eddie wrote:

gelico wrote:


surely not

I’m just clarifying. I always like to clarify what someone is actually saying.

What do you think about it all?

you already asked me this before and i posted to you giving my views on it.; you said ''i hear you, there's something weird going on'' i can';t remember which thread it was on though