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Prague mayor, a Russia critic, under protection after being told Russian ambassador is really an assassin

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:28 am

The mayor of Prague confirmed he is under police protection a day after a Czech investigative magazine reported a Russian assassin had entered the country allegedly planning to kill him with poison.
In an interview with a Russian independent radio station called "Echo of Moscow," on April 27, Prague's mayor Zdenek Hrib confirmed he had been under police protection for more than a fortnight, The Guardian reported. He said he couldn't comment on the reasons for the protection.
On April 26, Czech investigative magazine Respekt alleged that three weeks ago a person carrying Russian diplomatic papers arrived in Prague planning on assassinating Hrib and Ondrej Kolar, the mayor of the Prague 6 municipality, with poison. Anonymous sources told Respekt the person was carrying a suitcase filled with ricin, a deadly poison.

A Google translation of the Respekt article said sources had told the magazine the person was a member of the Russian secret service. It also said security forces knew about the person's arrival and evaluated it "as an immediate risk for a pair of Czech politicians, whose actions in recent months have provoked the wrath of Moscow."
The report hasn't been confirmed by the Czech authorities.



https://news.yahoo.com/pragues-mayor-critic-russia-under-031013413.html

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:38 am

And you wonder about my attitude toward eastern Europeans?

They are uncivilized.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:And you wonder about my attitude toward eastern Europeans?

They are uncivilized.

When you say "Eastern Europeans ... are uncivilized," you're being a bald-faced racist.

If someone were to say that about black people, Muslims, etc., you'd rake them over the coals.

I don't understand how you don't see how you're being a hypocrite, actually.

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Post by eddie on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:04 pm

ALL Eastern Europeans? What, like my Romanian friend at work who’s my shoulder to cry on and my loyal co-worker? Like my son’s beautiful, kind and clever Lithuanian girlfriend? Like my Bulgarian friend who teaches children to paint in watercolour, for free?

Are you kidding me with this statement, Quill?

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:24 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:And you wonder about my attitude toward eastern Europeans?

They are uncivilized.

When you say "Eastern Europeans ... are uncivilized," you're being a bald-faced racist.

If someone were to say that about black people, Muslims, etc., you'd rake them over the coals.

I don't understand how you don't see how you're being a hypocrite, actually.

I have not chosen to criticize their race. Indeed, as far as I know, the eastern Europeans are of the same race as all indo-europeans, including us. I believe what you mean, Ben, is when someone chooses to judge others by immutable characteristics, with which they are born, and cannot change or help themselves.

I only criticize eastern-European culture, and the morality inherent in it. This is a chosen trait, and is the cause of their troubles. Eastern-Europeans are accustomed to living under authoritarian regimes. In authoritarian regimes, the collective opinion does not prevail. Normalcy is dictated by a single, or a few persons.

I believe the collective opinion of the populous is the highest quality of morality, simply because the authority cannot slip beneath the fundamental canon: the golden rule of the Sermon on the Mount. When all people have the power, no one of them can exceed his or her limits.

Alternatively, when a single king or dictator has power, s/he can indeed fall into believing that s/he has special status, with special rights. That gives rise to authoritarian abuses, and a lack of general civil rights. Then, along comes associated economies, like prostitution and other human abuses. Eastern Europeans have been acclimated into that kind of thinking, and it has made acceptable (for them) the abuses we see in stories such as these.

We saw with Russia, the nation fall into Bolshevik hands, and emerge with nothing more than an organized criminal state-of-mind. This is habit, not race, nor any other immutable characteristic. Yes, eastern-Europeans are generally beneath grace, in humanist terms, but it's not as if it were anything they couldn't change. They choose to follow that path.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:33 pm

None of that has anything to do with painting everyone from the same region with the same brush.

It's a bit like saying that black people are best suited to subservient roles because they were enslaved.

Obviously, the vast majority of Eastern Europeans aren't uncivilized human traffickers or mobsters.

But every country and culture does have certain environmental advantages that the local criminal element will exploit. If coca or marijuana could be grown in Latvia, I guess you'd be arguing that Eastern Europeans have an inborn tendency toward producing and selling drugs?

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:42 pm

Well that is some of the worst xenophobic hate I have ever heard on this forum by Quill

Unlike Quill, I have been to Poland, Romanian, Ukrainian etc and they are some of the most  hospitable people I have met whilst abroad and whilst working alongside many in the Uk. 

Humans are one race and not once did I actually see Quill point out anything that was so bad about cultures in Eastern Europe. Just some claptrap about nations being under authoritative rulers. Which is odd, because so have many European nations, like Germany, Italy, Spain etc and yet I do not see Quill place them on the same issues.

Hence this was nothing more than unadulterated xenophobia by Quill.

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Post by eddie on Fri May 01, 2020 12:04 am

It’s not the first time he’s said it.

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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2020 12:05 am

eddie wrote:ALL Eastern Europeans? What, like my Romanian friend at work who’s my shoulder to cry on and my loyal co-worker? Like my son’s beautiful, kind and clever Lithuanian girlfriend? Like my Bulgarian friend who teaches children to paint in watercolour, for free?

Are you kidding me with this statement, Quill?


+1

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 01, 2020 12:06 am

Thorin wrote:Well that is some of the worst xenophobic hate I have ever heard on this forum by Quill

Unlike Quill, I have been to Poland, Romanian, Ukrainian etc and they are some of the most  hospitable people I have met whilst abroad and whilst working alongside many in the Uk. 

Humans are one race and not once did I actually see Quill point out anything that was so bad about cultures in Eastern Europe. Just some claptrap about nations being under authoritative rulers. Which is odd, because so have many European nations, like Germany, Italy, Spain etc and yet I do not see Quill place them on the same issues.

Hence this was nothing more than unadulterated xenophobia by Quill.

Other than rednecks, they're his favorite white people to pick on, and he has to have subgroups of white people to pick on or he'd be a racist, right?

That's how it works, right???

Rolling Eyes Laughing

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 01, 2020 12:07 am

Ben Reilly wrote:None of that has anything to do with painting everyone from the same region with the same brush.

It's a bit like saying that black people are best suited to subservient roles because they were enslaved.

Obviously, the vast majority of Eastern Europeans aren't uncivilized human traffickers or mobsters.

But every country and culture does have certain environmental advantages that the local criminal element will exploit. If coca or marijuana could be grown in Latvia, I guess you'd be arguing that Eastern Europeans have an inborn tendency toward producing and selling drugs?

Look, there is a fundamental distinction here that you missed. It turns on what is immutable, and what is not. Immutable means unable to be changed. Can the person you are judging make a change? Racism is fundamentally wrong because you can't change skin color. If one cannot change the characteristic for which you judge, then you are being fundamentally unfair.

That is fundamentally different, but often appears the same, from judging a person by his culture. The problem with associating culture with immutable characteristics is you make legitimate those cultures that are inherently bad. A lot of post-war literature has dealt with this problem...to allow for cultures to be exempt from judgment (by virtue of the argument: culture = race) is to say that Nazi Germany was guiltless. The argument goes: Hitler couldn't help it because--well, not his skin color, but his culture, language, and values were overwhelming to him. Do you buy that? No one else did, either.

It pissed off a great deal of (particularly Jewish) social theorists, who wrote a lot of books denouncing it, and who taught me at Berkeley (Sheldon Wolin, Hannah Arendt, Seymour Martin Lipset, etc.). So, the question becomes: can a culture be judged?

A culture is not immutable, no matter how ingrained it is. There is never a bad time to do the right thing. If eastern-Europeans don't want to clean up their act...if they want to continue the path they have chosen, then I will continue to judge them. There is nothing unfair about, as there would be with immutable characteristics. They made bad choices, and I make my judgment.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 01, 2020 12:09 am

You're still saying that EVERY SINGLE LAST Eastern European person has some "act" which needs to be "cleaned up."

They don't!

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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2020 12:10 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:Well that is some of the worst xenophobic hate I have ever heard on this forum by Quill

Unlike Quill, I have been to Poland, Romanian, Ukrainian etc and they are some of the most  hospitable people I have met whilst abroad and whilst working alongside many in the Uk. 

Humans are one race and not once did I actually see Quill point out anything that was so bad about cultures in Eastern Europe. Just some claptrap about nations being under authoritative rulers. Which is odd, because so have many European nations, like Germany, Italy, Spain etc and yet I do not see Quill place them on the same issues.

Hence this was nothing more than unadulterated xenophobia by Quill.

Other than rednecks, they're his favorite white people to pick on, and he has to have subgroups of white people to pick on or he'd be a racist, right?

That's how it works, right???

Rolling Eyes Laughing


If he has a view of subset groups of white people, when again there is just the human race, that would certainly be racist

He is going off culture, hence xenophobic, when there is no validity for his claim

I mean its also very insulting to the millions of eastern Europeans that were murdered by the Nazis, who viewed them as subhuman

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 01, 2020 12:13 am

Every individual chooses the degree to which they participate in their "culture." And these days, even "cultures" are hard to define without reducing entire groups of people to a collection of stereotypes:

* White Americans are bland.

* White English eat pie and mash.

* Black people are good athletes.

Sure, these all apply to some people, but there are so many counter-examples you can make that it's ridiculous.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 01, 2020 12:14 am

phil wrote:Well that is some of the worst xenophobic hate I have ever heard on this forum by Quill

You mean, other than you and Muslims. Seems to me that you judge Muslims by their cultural traits...treatment of women, sharia law, etc.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2020 12:16 am

The culture of Poland (Polish: Kultura polska) is the product of its geography and distinct historical evolution which is closely connected to its intricate thousand-year history.[1] Polish culture forms an important part of western civilization and the western world, with significant contributions to art, music, philosophy, mathematics, science, politics and literature.

Its unique character developed as a result of its geography at the confluence of various European regions. It is theorized and speculated that ethnic Poles and the other Lechites (Kashubians and Silesians) are the combination of descendants of West Slavs and people indigenous to the region including Celts, Balts and Germanic tribes which were gradually Polonized after Poland's Christianization by the Catholic Church in the 10th century. Over time Polish culture has been profoundly influenced by its interweaving ties with the Germanic, Hungarian, Latinate and to a lesser extent; Byzantine and Ottoman cultures as well as in continual dialog with the many other ethnic groups and minorities living in Poland.[2]

The people of Poland have traditionally been seen as hospitable to artists from abroad and eager to follow cultural and artistic trends popular in other countries. In the 19th and 20th centuries, the Polish focus on cultural advancement often took precedence over political and economic activity. These factors have contributed to the versatile nature of Polish art, with all its complex nuances.[2] Nowadays, Poland is a highly developed country that retains its traditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Poland


Polonophobia,[4] anti-Polonism (Polish: Antypolonizm),[5] and anti-Polish sentiment are terms for a variety of hostile attitudes, prejudices, and actions against Polish people and Polish culture. These include racial prejudice against Poles and persons of Polish descent, ethnically-based discrimination, and state-sponsored mistreatment of Poles and the Polish diaspora.[6] This prejudice led to mass killings and genocide or it was used to justify atrocities[7] both during and after World War II, most notably by the German Nazis, Ukrainian nationalists and Soviet communists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 01, 2020 12:18 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Every individual chooses the degree to which they participate in their "culture." And these days, even "cultures" are hard to define without reducing entire groups of people to a collection of stereotypes:

* White Americans are bland.

* White English eat pie and mash.

* Black people are good athletes.

Sure, these all apply to some people, but there are so many counter-examples you can make that it's ridiculous.

Are you honestly arguing that there is no such thing as culture? Nations are a mere collection of atomistic individuals? What about languages? No such thing, either?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2020 12:19 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Well that is some of the worst xenophobic hate I have ever heard on this forum by Quill

You mean, other than you and Muslims.  Seems to me that you judge Muslims by their cultural traits...treatment of women, sharia law, etc.

Incorrect again

I am critical of poor ideologies, which include many religions
That how ever does not mean I dislike people who follow religions
I am critical of people guilty of committing hateful acts in the name of their ideologies
The vast majority of Muslims are very kind and charitable

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 01, 2020 12:26 am

phil wrote:I am critical of people guilty of committing hateful acts in the name of their ideologies

So you agree with me...you just can't bring yourself to admit it.

Those "people guilty of committing hateful acts" wouldn't happen to be some cultures, would they?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 01, 2020 12:27 am

Original Quill wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Every individual chooses the degree to which they participate in their "culture." And these days, even "cultures" are hard to define without reducing entire groups of people to a collection of stereotypes:

* White Americans are bland.

* White English eat pie and mash.

* Black people are good athletes.

Sure, these all apply to some people, but there are so many counter-examples you can make that it's ridiculous.

Are you honestly arguing that there is no such thing as culture?  Nations are a mere collection of atomistic individuals?  What about languages?  No such thing, either?

Cultures as we experience them today are nothing more than a collection of characteristics that might apply to most members of the group that has been so-labelled ("Americans speak English," except that millions of them do not), but aside from that, no, I never said cultures don't exist, but more importantly:

You know as well as I do that, however you choose to define culture, it's grossly unfair and bigoted to characterize every member of a culture on the basis of a few traits of a tiny subculture within that culture, namely the criminal subculture.

So stop trying to presto-chango your way out of this.

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Post by eddie on Fri May 01, 2020 12:30 am

Quill, you are waffling from your point.

You said “ALL”

Perhaps you want to rephrase.

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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2020 12:32 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:I am critical of people guilty of committing hateful acts in the name of their ideologies

So you agree with me...you just can't bring yourself to admit it.

Those "people guilty of committing hateful acts" wouldn't happen to be some cultures, would they?

Really?

How is that being in agreement with you?

You claimed eastern Europeans were uncivilised

I never claimed Muslims were uncivilised

I stated quite clearly of being critical of those convicted of committing criminal acts in the name of an ideology.

Do you think that makes me think all Germans are uncivilised, due to the acts committed by Nazis?

So no I do not agree with you in any shape or form

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 01, 2020 5:25 am

phil wrote:I stated quite clearly of being critical of those convicted of committing criminal acts in the name of an ideology.

Sooo...you are substituting the term, 'culture', for 'ideology', and proceeding to condemn them nonetheless. Semantical argument, would you not say?

Just because you switch terms, does not mean you are not saying the same thing. A synonym for 'ideology' is 'culture'. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ideology

You are acting like such a complete hypocrite. Your evasion is wearing rather thin.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat May 02, 2020 1:16 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:I stated quite clearly of being critical of those convicted of committing criminal acts in the name of an ideology.

Sooo...you are substituting the term, 'culture', for 'ideology', and proceeding to condemn them nonetheless.  Semantical argument, would you not say?

Just because you switch terms, does not mean you are not saying the same thing.  A synonym for 'ideology' is 'culture'.  https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ideology

You are acting like such a complete hypocrite.  Your evasion is wearing rather thin.

For the love of Pete ... cultures are often made up of people who have differing ideologies. You can't speak of American culture without mentioning the different and often opposing ideologies held by many Americans, for one example of many.

But if you're asserting that all Eastern Europeans share the same ideology (which of course is utter nonsense), what ideology would that be?

I mean, are you saying that you couldn't go to a neighborhood in Lithuania and find people who live within yards of one another and still completely disagree with one another, the way people do in America, the UK and every other corner of the world?

And if you truly think you couldn't do that, do you think that people from Romania and Russia would also be the same?

The truth of the matter is, everyone here including you understands that you're talking shit -- you're simply the only one not admitting it.

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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 1:39 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:I stated quite clearly of being critical of those convicted of committing criminal acts in the name of an ideology.

Sooo...you are substituting the term, 'culture', for 'ideology', and proceeding to condemn them nonetheless.  Semantical argument, would you not say?

Just because you switch terms, does not mean you are not saying the same thing.  A synonym for 'ideology' is 'culture'.  https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ideology

You are acting like such a complete hypocrite.  Your evasion is wearing rather thin.

Eh?

Do you think a German Culture is Nazism or that Nazism is an ideology?

So how is that substituting the term, 'culture', for 'ideology'?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 2:04 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Sooo...you are substituting the term, 'culture', for 'ideology', and proceeding to condemn them nonetheless.  Semantical argument, would you not say?

Just because you switch terms, does not mean you are not saying the same thing.  A synonym for 'ideology' is 'culture'.  https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ideology

You are acting like such a complete hypocrite.  Your evasion is wearing rather thin.

For the love of Pete ... cultures are often made up of people who have differing ideologies. You can't speak of American culture without mentioning the different and often opposing ideologies held by many Americans, for one example of many.

But if you're asserting that all Eastern Europeans share the same ideology (which of course is utter nonsense), what ideology would that be?

I mean, are you saying that you couldn't go to a neighborhood in Lithuania and find people who live within yards of one another and still completely disagree with one another, the way people do in America, the UK and every other corner of the world?

And if you truly think you couldn't do that, do you think that people from Romania and Russia would also be the same?

The truth of the matter is, everyone here including you understands that you're talking shit -- you're simply the only one not admitting it.

It's layers, like peeling an onion.  Some are deeper than others. But one thing is for certain, they all have the infection. Even the victims perpetuate acceptance and appeasement. Do you think Melania would accept her husband's philandering without being acculturated to believe that's life. It's pervasive. Once the people are removed from the equation, as in democracy and leveling values, the morality is removed from the situation.

But one thing is for certain, eastern-Europeans are more comfortable with brutality and authoritarianism because it's what they are used to.  To get, is to give.  So they pass it on.  The ideology is self-perpetuating…from mother’s tongue to the child’s mind.

I'm being tough on them for humanism and purposes of openness. If you think I'm being intolerant, go live in one of those eastern-European countries. Do you think Putin's victims are happier with me, or with them?


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 2:09 am

There is a simple and poor fallacy reason behind the way Quill is thinking. In regards to his poor and xenophobic views towards Eastern Europeans here and its stems from a view around Putin and Trump

Because Quill believes Putin swayed the US President elections. He thus takes a guilt by association view, that Eastern Europeans are by extension corrupt and criminally minded.

That is his illogical stance here

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 2:24 am

Thorin wrote:There is a simple and poor fallacy reason behind the way Quill is thinking. In regards to his poor and xenophobic views towards Eastern Europeans here and its stems from a view around Putin and Trump

Because Quill believes Putin swayed the US President elections. He thus takes a guilt by association view, that Eastern Europeans are by extension corrupt and criminally minded.

That is his illogical stance here

Look in the mirror...and ask a Muslim to forgive you.

Then we can talk.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 2:53 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:There is a simple and poor fallacy reason behind the way Quill is thinking. In regards to his poor and xenophobic views towards Eastern Europeans here and its stems from a view around Putin and Trump

Because Quill believes Putin swayed the US President elections. He thus takes a guilt by association view, that Eastern Europeans are by extension corrupt and criminally minded.

That is his illogical stance here

Look in the mirror...and ask a Muslim to forgive you.

Then we can talk.

Sexy has forgiven me many times for being out of order.
So why would I need to look in the mirror, when I am not a Muslim?
I guess my point was spot on in why and how you have such appalling hateful views of eastern Europeans

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 3:14 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Look in the mirror...and ask a Muslim to forgive you.

Then we can talk.

Sexy has forgiven me many times for being out of order.
So why would I need to look in the mirror, when I am not a Muslim?

Because you criticize Muslims for being Muslims. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. John 8.

You judge Muslims by our western standards, and that is not only illogical, but immoral. It's ethnocentrism. Muslims have a discipline, according to their creed.

Eastern Europeans are not driven by a creed, but by fundamental lawlessness. It's what you get when you have centuries of authoritarianism. One fundamental thing that is always there, is greed. They are driven by greed, and moral life deteriorates accordingly.

Your criticism of Muslim culture is ethnocentrism. My criticism of eastern-Europeans is their lack of an orderly arrangement, leading to nothing we might call justice. They know only the whip, whether they are on the receiving end, or the giving end. Pure power is not civilization.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 3:38 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Sexy has forgiven me many times for being out of order.
So why would I need to look in the mirror, when I am not a Muslim?

Because you criticize Muslims for being Muslims.  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.  John 8.

You judge Muslims by our western standards, and that is not only illogical, but immoral.  It's ethnocentrism.  Muslims have a discipline, according to their creed.

Eastern Europeans are not driven by a creed, but by fundamental lawlessness.  It's what you get when you have centuries of authoritarianism.  One fundamental thing that is always there, is greed.  They are driven by greed, and moral life deteriorates accordingly.

Your criticism of Muslim culture is ethnocentrism.  My criticism of eastern-Europeans is their lack of an orderly arrangement, leading to nothing we might call justice.  They know only the whip, whether they are on the receiving end, or the giving end.  Pure power is not civilization.

Do I judge people for being Muslim or do I judge people individually for their actions from their beliefs?

There is no such thing as a Muslim culture, when Muslims make up a vast number of people in the world in many countries

Hence the culture will vary from one country to the next and may well be influenced by a religion.That does not make then all these cultures the same

How many more times are you going to invoke lies to things I have not said

You just promoted a lie with a guilt by association on eastern Europeans. Not backed by any science

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 3:54 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Because you criticize Muslims for being Muslims.  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.  John 8.

You judge Muslims by our western standards, and that is not only illogical, but immoral.  It's ethnocentrism.  Muslims have a discipline, according to their creed.

Eastern Europeans are not driven by a creed, but by fundamental lawlessness.  It's what you get when you have centuries of authoritarianism.  One fundamental thing that is always there, is greed.  They are driven by greed, and moral life deteriorates accordingly.

Your criticism of Muslim culture is ethnocentrism.  My criticism of eastern-Europeans is their lack of an orderly arrangement, leading to nothing we might call justice.  They know only the whip, whether they are on the receiving end, or the giving end.  Pure power is not civilization.

Do I judge people for being Muslim or do I judge people individually for their actions from their beliefs?

There is no such thing as a Muslim culture, when Muslims make up a vast number of people in the world in many countries

Hence the culture will vary from one country to the next and may well be influenced by a religion.That does not make then all these cultures the same

So...denial of the Muslim culture and religion is your answer? You are going to pirouette out of it that way? I don't think so.

The real point is that discrimination and bigotry applies to immutable characteristics that people can't change. Culture is a different matter. Muslims have a culture around their religion, and you want to substitute your culture for theirs.

No such escape for nasty eastern-Europeans. Their culture is deterioration and immoral greed, prostitution, and denigration of the human condition.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 4:29 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Do I judge people for being Muslim or do I judge people individually for their actions from their beliefs?

There is no such thing as a Muslim culture, when Muslims make up a vast number of people in the world in many countries

Hence the culture will vary from one country to the next and may well be influenced by a religion.That does not make then all these cultures the same

So...denial of the Muslim culture and religion is your answer?  You are going to pirouette out of it that way?  I don't think so.

The real point is that discrimination and bigotry applies to immutable characteristics that people can't change.  Culture is a different matter.  Muslims have a culture around their religion, and you want to substitute your culture for theirs.

No such escape for nasty eastern-Europeans.  Their culture is deterioration and immoral greed, prostitution, and denigration of the human condition.

1. Strawman alert

2. The culture in many Muslim majority countries is different. Based on the fact there is differing laws from this

3.,  "immutable characteristics that people can't change"? What are these Quill?

4. Considering the vast majority of Eastern Europeans are not involved in prostitution or criminality. This further exposes your xenophobia To blame this on eastern European culture. Has to go down as one of the most dumbest things you have claimed

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 4:49 am

You really can't deny it, didge. You are all over Muslims, yet you want to disclaim your position. What is this:

phil wrote:The culture in many Muslim majority countries is different. Based on the fact there is differing laws from this

Yet, you would condemn all Muslims. How strange is that?

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Guest on Sat May 02, 2020 4:53 am

Original Quill wrote:You really can't deny it, didge.  You are all over Muslims, yet you want to disclaim your position.  What is this:

phil wrote:The culture in many Muslim majority countries is different. Based on the fact there is differing laws from this

Yet, you would condemn all Muslims.  How strange is that?


Then how ever for example have I been friends with sexy on this and many forums?

The only thing strange is your poor use of strawman and falsified arguments here

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 4:04 pm

SM is a very tolerant lady. She maintains good relationships with all.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 4:13 pm

phil wrote:3.,  "immutable characteristics that people can't change"? What are these Quill?

The most obvious is dark skin.  But there are also arbitrary and false assumptions made about the disabled, women, the elderly, gays and lesbians, Latinos...all of whom cannot change their condition, if they wanted to.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat May 02, 2020 11:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:3.,  "immutable characteristics that people can't change"? What are these Quill?

The most obvious is dark skin.  But there are also arbitrary and false assumptions made about the disabled, women, the elderly, gays and lesbians, Latinos...all of whom cannot change their condition, if they wanted to.

Like how it's an arbitrary and false assumption that people born with the "immutable characteristic that people can't change" of being Eastern European are all human traffickers and in general "uncivilized."

Excellent point, top marks.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 02, 2020 11:55 pm

Ben wrote:Like how it's an arbitrary and false assumption that people born with the "immutable characteristic that people can't change" of being Eastern European are all human traffickers and in general "uncivilized."

Being eastern-European is not an immutable characteristic.  They can change.

Moreover, it is not that every incident of a population is a trafficker or uncivilized; it is that the culture finds that kind of behavior tolerable.

After all, not every German during the 1940's was a concentration camp guard.  But the culture accepted Jewish concentration camps, and with that, they also accepted those who operated them.  A culture is a milieu, not a template for every person.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun May 03, 2020 12:14 am

Original Quill wrote:
Ben wrote:Like how it's an arbitrary and false assumption that people born with the "immutable characteristic that people can't change" of being Eastern European are all human traffickers and in general "uncivilized."

Being eastern-European is not an immutable characteristic.  They can change.

Moreover, it is not that every incident of a population is a trafficker or uncivilized; it is that the culture finds that kind of behavior tolerable.

After all, not every German during the 1940's was a concentration camp guard.  But the culture accepted Jewish concentration camps, and with that, they also accepted those who operated them.  A culture is a milieu, not a template for every person.

So Eastern Europeans can change where they were born, eh? Tell that to them. I don't understand how you can change the place of your birth, so maybe you could explain that.

Just did a Google search and I can find plenty of Eastern European governments and groups committed to fighting human trafficking, so there goes your claim that they all tolerate it.

And much of what the Nazis did to the Jews was hidden from the German general public, did you not know that?

Also, Germany estimates that about 20,000 Christian Germans worked to protect Jews during the Holocaust. They were a small minority of the population, but that's still a lot of people -- and they demonstrate why you can't judge people by their place of birth or culture, as you do.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 03, 2020 4:07 am

Ben wrote:So Eastern Europeans can change where they were born, eh?

No, but they can change their twisted culture. It's not where they were born, it's the immoral choices they make.

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Post by Guest on Sun May 03, 2020 8:29 am

Original Quill wrote:
Ben wrote:So Eastern Europeans can change where they were born, eh?

No, but they can change their twisted culture.  It's not where they were born, it's the immoral choices they make.

Hence you even believe some are not corrupt ten?

What immoral choice has every single eastern European made today that effects you?

I am yet to see what you think is twisted about their culture?

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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 03, 2020 3:50 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No, but they can change their twisted culture.  It's not where they were born, it's the immoral choices they make.

Hence you even believe some are not corrupt ten?

What immoral choice has every single eastern European made today that effects you?

I am yet to see what you think is twisted about their culture?

Most are not corrupt. I thought I made that clear, with my analogy to German people: not every one was a concentration camp guard, but they accepted what was going on...and indeed, agreed with it.

Eastern-Europeans are permissive of the demoralized world of authoritarianism. They acquiesce to violations of civil rights and exploitation in their society and elsewhere, thus empowering the kind of corruption I condemn.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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