UK government doesn't rule out that coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab

The UK government believes the novel coronavirus may have accidentally leaked from a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan where scientists were researching viruses, according to a Mail on Sunday newspaper report.

Most experts believe the outbreak of the virus began with animals passing the disease to humans in or near a market in the Chinese city of Wuhan where live animals were sold.

The Mail on Sunday report, however, says that while officials in Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government believe this is still the most likely explanation, it is "no longer being discounted" that a leak from a nearby laboratory actually caused the outbreak.

"There is a credible alternative view [to the zoonotic theory] based on the nature of the virus," a member of the UK government's emergency committee of senior officials, Cobra, told the newspaper. "Perhaps it is no coincidence that there is that laboratory in Wuhan. It is not discounted."

There are two scientific labs close to Wuhan where scientists are believed to have been carrying out tests on viruses: the Institute of Virology and the Wuhan Center for Disease Control.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-government-coronavirus-may-leaked-chinese-laboratory-covid-2020-4

I have always thought it originated in a lab, I said as much to you, Ben. We may never get the truth from the dodgy Chinese.
Look at the links to the YouTube videos and how so many Chinese civilians are desperate to speak out despite the social media silencing put into place.

It's also possible that someone from the lab didnt follow protocol and  brought some sort of infection on their person, to the wet market, where it infected someone's cat prior to being stir fried.  

Who in the hell knows what happened there?

But SARS and MERS were zoonotic. They weren't made in a lab.  


Or were they?

eddie wrote:I have always thought it originated in a lab, I said as much to you, Ben. We may never get the truth from the dodgy Chinese.
Look at the links to the YouTube videos and how so many Chinese civilians are desperate to speak out despite the social media silencing put into place.

But that's a plot-line more in keeping with the Russian mind.

And then there's motive. The Chinese already have the second largest economy. It's Russia that's trying to disrupt things.

It's all speculation at this point.

They were/are studying bat diseases there, so I heard. Then I read that bats have very efficient immune systems, that means any virus that infected them has to mutate rapidly to remain 'alive' although they aren't considered to be alive as such, maybe that's what they are researching and hoping to imitate in human immune systems and something got away and into humans through a second animal.

Quite possible.  Wujan has the interest, and the opportunity, to be studying the virus.  Reminds me of smallpox, and how it got loose for the second wave.

They had contained it everywhere in the world. A lab retained a sample, for study they say. Someone dropped the test tube on the 4th floor, and week later someone came down with smallpox on the 3rd floor. Been back among us ever since.

The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

Ben Reilly wrote:The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

All good points and I agree ...except I still don’t buy the whole story. I just can’t.

Ben Reilly wrote:The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

Correction, 100k of those deaths have happened over one month

Its likely this will cause millions of deaths before we see this through Ben

I agree its stupid to think this is a man made virus, but it is a man made situation to allow a virus to spread to humans through poor practises

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

All good points and I agree ...except I still don’t buy the whole story. I just can’t.

Do you apply the same reason to every single pandemic in history eddie?

If not, why this one?

Personally I don’t think we will ever know.

Cass wrote:Personally I don’t think we will ever know.

Of course we will end up knowing

Cass wrote:Personally I don’t think we will ever know.

Nope. We may never know. But I do think that it’s all a bit weird.

eddie wrote:

Cass wrote:Personally I don’t think we will ever know.

Nope. We may never know. But I do think that it’s all a bit weird.

We know such pandemics happened every hundred years eddie

That is not weird.

We are simple continually unprepared, based on the evolution of said viruses

I think we will end up knowing. We know all about how SARS originated and spread, with the benefit of 17 years to look into it and study it.

Thorin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Cass wrote:Personally I don’t think we will ever know.

Nope. We may never know. But I do think that it’s all a bit weird.

We know such pandemics happened every hundred years eddie

That is not weird.

We are simple continually unprepared, based on the evolution of said viruses

I’m simply agreeing with Cass, and my own feelings and the feel of people.
We may never know. Have you seen the videos of the Chinese public who are trying to get their messages out there?

https://youtu.be/m5fsidSOJMw

eddie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

We know such pandemics happened every hundred years eddie

That is not weird.

We are simple continually unprepared, based on the evolution of said viruses

I’m simply agreeing with Cass, and my own feelings and the feel of people.
We may never know. Have you seen the videos of the Chinese public who are trying to get their messages out there?

https://youtu.be/m5fsidSOJMw

Yes because of the Chinese government.

Didge and Ben, I hope you’re right, but I just don’t see it happening. Only time will tell.

I really think it's a case of "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Humanity has dealt with massively contagious, deadly diseases for thousands of years, but was protected as a whole most of that time by the fact that it was very difficult for people -- and their diseases -- to travel very far, very quickly.

It was European disease that killed one of every 10 Native Americans, after all. That wouldn't have happened if Europeans hadn't come to the Americas. What is happening now is most likely perfectly natural.

Maybe, maybe not. Let’s just remain open, shall we?

eddie wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Let’s just remain open, shall we?

I'm always open to reasonable, logical explanations.

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Let’s just remain open, shall we?

I'm always open to reasonable, logical explanations.

As are most of the public nowadays.

eddie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

We know such pandemics happened every hundred years eddie

That is not weird.

We are simple continually unprepared, based on the evolution of said viruses

I’m simply agreeing with Cass, and my own feelings and the feel of people.
We may never know. Have you seen the videos of the Chinese public who are trying to get their messages out there?

https://youtu.be/m5fsidSOJMw

And?

We know this is a type of virus similar to ones that have come before.

Yet people are more interested in conspiracies than looking for ways to combat this

I find that incredible people think that way

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Let’s just remain open, shall we?

I'm always open to reasonable, logical explanations.

Agreed, but generally conspiracies are born from a position seeking to blame.
This clouds the ability to look at something rationally and logically

Ben Reilly wrote:The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

And why would the Chinese harm their best customers? They need Europe and the US too buy their shit. That's what funds their economy. Now if this thing ran rampant in only S. Korea or Japan.........

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:The problem with the idea of a man-made virus as a weapon is that it's a gun with a million barrels, each pointing in a different direction, including at yourself. Nobody's going to pull the trigger unless we're talking about a proper James Bond-style villain who wants to destroy the world and take himself along with it.

Plus, a prominent virologist has said that if someone was going to weaponize a virus, they'd pick one that already infects humans, rather than an animal virus that they'd have to mutate to make it infect humans.

Finally, if you intend to do some serious damage with a weaponized virus, 100,000 global deaths in three and a half months is pretty small potatoes.

And why would the Chinese harm their best customers? They need Europe and the US too buy their shit. That's what funds their economy.  Now if this thing ran rampant in only S. Korea or Japan.........

Exactly, thank you. There is no follow-the-money motive I can see for creating a virus that kills a bunch of people indiscriminately. The pandemic has the global economy royally fucked, so the rich don't benefit. The virus is set to hit the third world the hardest, so the poor don't benefit.

The PM of the UK nearly died from it and other rich and powerful people have contracted and/or died from it, so the elite aren't safe. Obviously the non-elite aren't safe, either.

Other than a whackadoodle madman who wants to destroy the world, I can't think of anybody who would want this pandemic to happen.

Sometimes, I think most of the time, the obvious answer is the right answer -- somehow a virus that used to only affect animals mutated so that it could infect human beings, then mutated again so it could be transmitted human-to-human. It's happened before and it will certainly happen again.

But maybe if you believe that the illness is down to biological warfare or even 5G towers, it protects you from the frightening knowledge that this pandemic was inevitable and that it will not be the last. If anything, they'll be more frequent (they already are, actually).

“Eat, wake, sleep, get on the train
Work, break, work, come home again
Sit down now and watch the TV

Is this reality?”



Stay open. Namaste.

Thorin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

We know such pandemics happened every hundred years eddie

That is not weird.

We are simple continually unprepared, based on the evolution of said viruses

I’m simply agreeing with Cass, and my own feelings and the feel of people.
We may never know. Have you seen the videos of the Chinese public who are trying to get their messages out there?

https://youtu.be/m5fsidSOJMw

And?

We know this is a type of virus similar to ones that have come before.

Yet people are more interested in conspiracies than looking for ways to combat this

I find that incredible people think that way

Yes...but... did you watch the videos?

But you’re probably right. Who knows?

When the dust clears, there will be the all-important questions of what did you know, and when did you know it?  Nobody wants a repeat, and with this virus the come-back/come-around is a real possibility.  So, you've got to study the past in order to save us from devastating consequences in the future.

The answer to the 'when' is all the more important because, with the pattern of spread you can avoid overloading our system if you start mitigating at the earliest signs.

The American government failed us all, in that they had reports of this as a pandemic, in November of 2019.  They ignored it, minimized it and refused to take it seriously, and in doing so, lost valuable time in which to prepare (tests, PPE, ventilators and beds), and begin mitigation.  In this default, America has hosted illness in some 550,000 sick, and death in excess of 2,500 dead so far.

If you go back to the Obama administration, the Trump administration’s situation is much worse because Dr. Obama had made these preparations and had things all set up and delivered.  The Obama administration had actually prevented this from happening with respect to SARS, swine and H1N1 flu's and the ebola threat.  With the wisdom gained then, the Obama team set up the Pandemic Response Team.  Trump fired the Pandemic Response Team, defunded research projects, scaled back the CDC and made a mockery of the entire Department of Health.

Trump has treated Health like a spare tire in automobiles.  How often do you use a spare tire?  With Trump’s logic, he answered never, so let’s get rid of it!  Except he forgot that one time you might need it with a flat tire in the desert.

My daddy always taught me through tough love.  Trump took the chance, now let him suffer the blame.

You call him DR Quill, Dr of what ?

Obama has a JD (basically a doctor of law). It does make him sound like a medic to call him "Dr," and it's unusual to address someone who has a JD as "doctor."

Ben Reilly wrote:Obama has a JD (basically a doctor of law). It does make him sound like a medic to call him "Dr," and it's unusual to address someone who has a JD as "doctor."

That's your error, and that of society as a whole.  The appellation of "doctor" has been with us from Latin days.  It means one who instructs: the word is originally an agentive noun of the Latin verb docēre, Latin pronunciation: [dɔˈkeːrɛ], meaning 'to teach'.  "Philosophy" means knowledge in Greek, so a doctor of philosophy (PhD) is one who has knowledge and who teaches.  That is the original, legitimate, and only doctor.

During Victorian days medicine was a developing field.  There were a lot of charlatans, snake oil sellers, bloodletters (the red and white barber pole is the mark of a bloodletter, who doubles as a haircutter) and the like, so to have a teaching credential was a mark of legitimacy.  Physicians—the real name for them—changed their title to "doctors", and the title has stuck ever since.

But, indeed, in academic circles, it is recognized that only a Ph.D. is a real doctor, or teacher.  Professionals--practitioners as distinct from teachers--have assumed the title doctor in order to don the cloak of legitimacy.  But, the real practitioner/teacher will have a name like: John Doe, MD, PhD, or as I have, John Doe, JD, PhD.  That means you are both a professional and a teacher.

Alas, Dr. Obama was a real, live teacher of Constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Although he doesn’t have the PhD, he served the role of teacher, and had at least one of those doctorates, and he deserves the title. After all, he has proved himself in teaching as well as practicing.

I have said all along that this virus has been
Manufactured by the Chinese.

All these countries that are in lockdown because
Of Wuhan, I think should stop all export from
China all together. Just completely sever all ties.

To blame the Chinese is, like, to blame the female for becoming pregnant. She's just a link in the chain of events.

Likewise, the Chinese were victims of the Trumpvirus, before they were transmitters. Disease is cyclical.

I agree with Star24 !

PhD...pin headed dope
or
piled high and deep

Obama was a rarity, a man that could really think , and deserved the honourific "doctor" or the tiltle JD

most PhD's are one trick pony's....brilliant at research into whatever floats their boat, but totally useless at anything else, totally non practical and very often socially inept

Ben Reilly wrote:Obama has a JD (basically a doctor of law). It does make him sound like a medic to call him "Dr," and it's unusual to address someone who has a JD as "doctor."

Yeah, one of my best friend's wife has a PhD in pharmacology. Sometimes we call her Doc, but usually just the drug dealer.

Victorismyhero wrote:PhD...pin headed dope
or
piled high and deep

most PhD's are one trick pony's....brilliant at research into whatever floats their boat, but totally useless at anything else, totally non practical and very often socially inept

Aren't soldiers "one trick ponys"?  

Original Quill wrote:

Victorismyhero wrote:PhD...pin headed dope
or
piled high and deep

most PhD's are one trick pony's....brilliant at research into whatever floats their boat, but totally useless at anything else, totally non practical and very often socially inept

Aren't soldiers "one trick ponys"?  

As the wife of one who had a distinguished military career and has gone on to having a distinguished civilian career, the answer to your question is not generally. Some may be, the vast majority are not. All of the friends we visited in February in the UK have all gone on to having very good jobs.

Original Quill wrote:

Victorismyhero wrote:PhD...pin headed dope
or
piled high and deep

most PhD's are one trick pony's....brilliant at research into whatever floats their boat, but totally useless at anything else, totally non practical and very often socially inept

Aren't soldiers "one trick ponys"?  

As the wife of one who had a distinguished military career and has gone on to having a distinguished civilian career, the answer to your question is not generally. Some may be, the vast majority are not. All of the friends we visited in February in the UK have all gone on to having very good jobs.

This "one trick pony" could kill you in seconds, any one want to hire me ? MY rates are cheap, [extra for Trump] !

Original Quill wrote:

Victorismyhero wrote:PhD...pin headed dope
or
piled high and deep

most PhD's are one trick pony's....brilliant at research into whatever floats their boat, but totally useless at anything else, totally non practical and very often socially inept

Aren't soldiers "one trick ponys"?  

obviously not, since most have a trade within the army, be it mechanics, electronics, even carpenters and joiners, plumbers etc .....

plus most of them are likely to be multiskilled to some degree....

Victorismyhero wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Aren't soldiers "one trick ponys"?  

obviously not, since most have a trade within the army, be it mechanics, electronics, even carpenters and joiners, plumbers etc .....

plus most of them are likely to be multiskilled to some degree....

Certainly that is true with PhD's too.

not in my experience...

last place I worked at we had a PhD in electronics.....who burned his hand.......because he didnt know which end of the soldering iron to pick up.....seriously he was that dumb

but he could work out a "fast fourier transform" on the back of a ciggie packet.........

idiot savant.........

and he had the social skills of a mentally backward duck billed platypus....

Victorismyhero wrote:not in my experience...

last place I worked at we had a PhD in electronics.....who burned his hand.......because he didnt know which end of the soldering iron to pick up.....seriously he was that dumb

but he could work out a "fast fourier transform" on the back of a ciggie packet.........

idiot savant.........

and he had the social skills of a mentally backward duck billed platypus....

OK, I snorted!

Victorismyhero wrote:not in my experience...

last place I worked at we had a PhD in electronics.....who burned his hand.......because he didnt know which end of the soldering iron to pick up.....seriously he was that dumb

but he could work out a "fast fourier transform" on the back of a ciggie packet.........

idiot savant.........

and he had the social skills of a mentally backward duck billed platypus....

You can't generalize from specifics, Vic. One anecdote does not make a universality.

You would know that if you had a PhD.