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PART THREE!!!! of my England Diary, or a Texan in Old Blighty!!!!!!

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

So I've been back for five days, really damn ill for the past three. I'm disappointed but glad to be getting it out of the way sooner rather than later.

So other than a bit at the end, I want to share how crazy my journey was. Settle in ...

I got up the day I was set to leave worrying mostly about how the Border Force was going to treat me when I got to them. Bear in mind, the last time I came over, I had to get edds to take a photo of our marriage certificate and send it to me so I could show it to a very strict lady at Heathrow.

Everything went smoothly until I arrived at DFW Airport and keyed my confirmation code into a kiosk. It couldn't find me, so I went up to the counter, where a young woman put it in, only to look up at me and say, "You're at the wrong airport."

I couldn't believe how stupid I'd been, and I couldn't imagine how I was going to break this news to edds. I was well on my way to a full-blown panic attack when the woman said, "Look, your flight was delayed by a half hour; I'd call an Uber and see if you can't make your flight at Dallas Love Field."

Blessing her for giving me a plan of action, I ran out of her area, downloaded Uber to my phone, explained to edds what was happening and ordered my Uber. About 10 agonizing minutes later, I was in the car of the World's Nicest Uber Driver, Ever.

He got me to Love Field about 25 minutes before my plane was due to take off. I made it to the gate with 10 minutes to spare, and when they told me I wasn't too late to board, I felt relief like no other.

But while on the plane, the pilot informed us that because of storms between us and my layover destination, Atlanta, we'd be delayed. When all was said and done, my two-hour layover had turned into a 30-minute layover -- from the moment my plane touched down to the moment the next plane took off.

I was panicking again by the time the plane landed in Atlanta, and I was the most aggressive I've ever been, getting out of that plane.

Then I realize the suitcase I'd put in an overhead bin wasn't there.

I couldn't decide, for a few horrible seconds, whether to hang with the flight staff and see if they could find my bag, or to venture out and see if I could find it myself. I opted for the latter with 20 minutes before my next flight took off.

Luckily, the guy who accidentally grabbed my bag was waiting for me, and I scooped it up and proceeded to the route of people-movers and the train that would get me to my gate. When I made it, finally, it was 5 minutes until takeoff and the airline employees addressed me by name as I ran up to them.

The rest of the journey was uneventful, and then I finally got to the part I'd been dreading the most. I'd googled what happens to you when you're not allowed into a country within one of its airports, and I'd found nothing. I had no idea what was about to happen.

With a group of several other people, I was ushered to a booth with two doors. The first door let me in, and I scanned my passport photo and looked at a camera. Then the other door opened.

I was in. I couldn't believe how easily that had gone. I made my way out of Heathrow before anybody could call me back and say another word to me.

Out of the airport, onto the Tube, and finally, to the door behind which I'd find my wife, and my stepkids.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:02 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Wow. Feels like a wrecking ball was taken to this thread Shocked

I hate airports. I'd have had a breakdown with all that shit Ben lol

I tend to arrive three hours early JUST in case. And at immigration I always feel like I'm gonna get in trouble for something I couldn't possibly have done.

Glad you made it lol

Yeah because you are a nerd and yet you never get in trouble its your paranoia playing tricks on you because you are gay right?

Am I allowed to say this or will Eddie berate me for this, but Eilzel knows I am right

Sorry boring and retarded

Who the fuck cares about what happens at the airport other than some boring texan

Holy crap give me a real story

Amun

Not really. More some dodgy change in visa regulations the useless Thai govt didn't tell us about (or UK if flying the other way). Or something in my bag I didn't know about or a million and one other non-issues that I only think about cause the immigration officers (in most countries) insist on being the most miserable, guilt inducing, serious MOFOs I ever come across Smile

Anyway, have a Snickers and chill, mate.

Good advice to Eds and Ben btw, re: freelance writing Smile

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Post by Maddog on Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:43 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

If you could imagine the fear that a stupid mistake could literally keep you from getting to the people that you love, I think it would resonate more for you.

Also, we spent over a thousand dollars on my ticket, and we absolutely cannot waste that much money. It would have been an enormous setback, emotionally and financially.

Then learn to make sacrifices until you are permanently here

I have given up smoking this year

Give up luxuries as, you both need the money

Are they more important than you being both together?

No

That is the key and anyway your time together is better than any artificial fix like whiskey

Maybe you already both have, just saying, every penny counts

That's why you are cranky.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:45 pm

Another funny thing is how I'm treated by Eastern Europeans; they just treat me like any other English person. I guess it's because I speak English natively?

In England, I'm not really a foreigner, and I guess it was the same for edds when she came to America. People know that we're technically from a different country, and they'll ask about it, but they don't really see us as from a different culture, which I think is because we swap so much culture in movies, TV and music.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:57 pm

Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:46 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.

Pretty sure the ban only applies to foreign nationals.  You're free to leave, assuming there are flights.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:00 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.

Pretty sure the ban only applies to foreign nationals.  You're free to leave, assuming there are flights.

Yes, if, in the words of the Vice President, I am willing to be "funneled through certain airports and processed." I have little desire to be "funneled" and even less desire to be "processed."

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Post by Maddog on Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:05 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Pretty sure the ban only applies to foreign nationals.  You're free to leave, assuming there are flights.

Yes, if, in the words of the Vice President, I am willing to be "funneled through certain airports and processed." I have little desire to be "funneled" and even less desire to be "processed."

I don't blame you. I just didn't know if you were bumping up against time restraints on your visa or whatever document you're their on. My comment was more about the Brits rules on letting you stay, not your desire to do so.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:11 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.

Pretty sure the ban only applies to foreign nationals.  You're free to leave, assuming there are flights.

Yes, if, in the words of the Vice President, I am willing to be "funneled through certain airports and processed." I have little desire to be "funneled" and even less desire to be "processed."


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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:14 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.



I am thankful you are able to be around your family, during this crisis

I cannot imagine anything more worse. If you ended up apart from each other during this

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Whoa, been a while since I updated this! Really only posting to point out that I'm now stuck here, since Trump has just extended the European travel ban to also include the UK and Ireland.

Weirdly enough, I was originally going to be heading back to Texas today. My flight would have taken off literally hours before the ban went into effect.



I am thankful you are able to be around your family, during this crisis

I cannot imagine anything more worse. If you ended up apart from each other during this

Thanks, Didge. I've half a mind to overstay my visa and just tell the government to fuck themselves if they think I'm going to be away from my wife and step-children during this shit.

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Post by nicko on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:15 pm

You couldn't go back if you wanted to could you Ben ?
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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:22 pm

nicko wrote: You couldn't go back if you wanted to could you Ben ?

As it stands now, I could -- it would be one hell of a journey, replete with screening and, mainly, standing around waiting for hours. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if they aren't about to ban all travel in and out of the UK, regardless of your nationality.

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Post by gelico on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:



I am thankful you are able to be around your family, during this crisis

I cannot imagine anything more worse. If you ended up apart from each other during this

Thanks, Didge. I've half a mind to overstay my visa and just tell the government to fuck themselves if they think I'm going to be away from my wife and step-children during this shit.


when does your visa actually run out then ben?

also there's pretty much fuck all the government could do to you if you did stay here

these are unprecedented times

it makes much more sense for you to stay where you are rather than travel and i'm sure the government would agree

i think there's a lockdown coming on

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:47 pm

gelico wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:



I am thankful you are able to be around your family, during this crisis

I cannot imagine anything more worse. If you ended up apart from each other during this

Thanks, Didge. I've half a mind to overstay my visa and just tell the government to fuck themselves if they think I'm going to be away from my wife and step-children during this shit.


when does your visa actually run out then ben?

also there's pretty much fuck all the government could do to you if you did stay here

these are unprecedented times

it makes much more sense for you to stay where you are rather than travel and i'm sure the government would agree

i think there's a lockdown coming on

Thanks, gels. My visa runs out just before July, but I'm thinking this pandemic could very well still be a problem then. I just know that it would be really hard for eddie to have a kid at home, let alone to get to Tesco when it opens to buy toilet roll, and keep working.

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Post by nicko on Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Mentioning Toilet rolls, does any one know why people are going mad to get them ? [There's always Newspaper to use] Us old uns had to use it !
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Post by eddie on Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:23 pm

nicko wrote: Mentioning Toilet rolls, does any one know why people are going mad to get them ?    [There's always Newspaper to use] Us old uns had to use it !

Or water? A la France.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:06 pm

nicko wrote: Mentioning Toilet rolls, does any one know why people are going mad to get them ?    [There's always Newspaper to use] Us old uns had to use it !

It's absolute nonsense, I'm glad the supermarkets over here are finally tamping down on that. That said, I went to Tesco's twice today, and the second time, they were still cleaned out of toilet roll.

Literally, I got there 15 minutes before they opened (as in 5:45 a.m.) and was still forced to queue behind about 10 other people waiting to get in. Before the doors opened, there was a line forming around the edges of the car park.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:27 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote: Mentioning Toilet rolls, does any one know why people are going mad to get them ?    [There's always Newspaper to use] Us old uns had to use it !

It's absolute nonsense, I'm glad the supermarkets over here are finally tamping down on that. That said, I went to Tesco's twice today, and the second time, they were still cleaned out of toilet roll.

Literally, I got there 15 minutes before they opened (as in 5:45 a.m.) and was still forced to queue behind about 10 other people waiting to get in. Before the doors opened, there was a line forming around the edges of the car park.



It's you lot, who are panic buying and stockpiling etc, that are causing the problems!!!



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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:52 pm

use a sponge on a stick...it worked for the romans

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:06 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote: Mentioning Toilet rolls, does any one know why people are going mad to get them ?    [There's always Newspaper to use] Us old uns had to use it !

It's absolute nonsense, I'm glad the supermarkets over here are finally tamping down on that. That said, I went to Tesco's twice today, and the second time, they were still cleaned out of toilet roll.

Literally, I got there 15 minutes before they opened (as in 5:45 a.m.) and was still forced to queue behind about 10 other people waiting to get in. Before the doors opened, there was a line forming around the edges of the car park.



It's you lot, who are panic buying and stockpiling etc, that are causing the problems!!!



Don’t be an arsehole Tommy. We haven’t been panic-buying but because of the panic-buyers we had to get there early because by 9am, when Ben usually goes, everything is gone!

Moron. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:07 pm

Yeah, and who do you mean by "you lot," Tommy? Because the other day when I bought a lot of stuff, it came to three shopping bags. Most people call that a big shop, not panic buying.

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:17 pm

I have to say, this is where Vegans will be screwed long term

I would rather know a hunter and survivalist, than any form of farmer

Go figure

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:29 pm

eddie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:



It's you lot, who are panic buying and stockpiling etc, that are causing the problems!!!



Don’t be an arsehole Tommy. We haven’t been panic-buying but because of the panic-buyers we had to get there early because by 9am, when Ben usually goes, everything is gone!

Moron. Rolling Eyes



Yeah... Just like all the others who have started turning up at 5.00 am at supermarkets, who have never done this before...



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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
eddie wrote:

Don’t be an arsehole Tommy. We haven’t been panic-buying but because of the panic-buyers we had to get there early because by 9am, when Ben usually goes, everything is gone!

Moron. Rolling Eyes



Yeah... Just like all the others who have started turning up at 5.00 am at supermarkets, who have never done this before...




You are making a poor presumption here Tommy

Because of a certain number of selfish people. You are presuming Eddie and Ben are doing this

Getting up early to ensure you get some food supplies is common sense

Direct your anger at people who hoard and buy up al the supplies when they shop

They are not doing this

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:41 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
eddie wrote:

Don’t be an arsehole Tommy. We haven’t been panic-buying but because of the panic-buyers we had to get there early because by 9am, when Ben usually goes, everything is gone!

Moron. Rolling Eyes



Yeah... Just like all the others who have started turning up at 5.00 am at supermarkets, who have never done this before...




You are making a poor presumption here Tommy

Because of a certain number of selfish people. You are presuming Eddie and Ben are doing this

Getting up early to ensure you get some food supplies is common sense

Direct your anger at people who hoard and buy up al the supplies when they shop

They are not doing this

Exactly. He simply isn’t getting the point.

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:46 pm

eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You are making a poor presumption here Tommy

Because of a certain number of selfish people. You are presuming Eddie and Ben are doing this

Getting up early to ensure you get some food supplies is common sense

Direct your anger at people who hoard and buy up al the supplies when they shop

They are not doing this

Exactly. He simply isn’t getting the point.

I understand 

It does not matter what Tommy thinks here Eddie and you should never be made to feel guilty for no wrong you have done

Tommy is lashing out,.

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:55 pm

We just needed to get some stuff that was needed. We wasn’t greedy. He doesn’t get it.

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:01 pm

eddie wrote:We just needed to get some stuff that was needed. We wasn’t greedy. He doesn’t get it.


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:03 pm

Thorin wrote:
eddie wrote:We just needed to get some stuff that was needed. We wasn’t greedy. He doesn’t get it.


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children


Oh and this is not me knocking Tommy

Just saying there is far greater differences for people and their needs

Again at no point here do I see Eddie or Ben take the piss, but adapt to a situation and protect and provide for their family

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:03 pm

Thorin wrote:
eddie wrote:We just needed to get some stuff that was needed. We wasn’t greedy. He doesn’t get it.


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children


Hahahahaha funny story I think you’ll like.

Ben says to my son (who’s home from Cambridge) “what do you need from Tesco tomorrow...guns, knives, ammo?”

My son says. “Yes!! And some Yakult please!”

Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:05 pm

eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children


Hahahahaha funny story I think you’ll like.

Ben says  to my son (who’s home from Cambridge) “what do you need from Tesco tomorrow...guns, knives, ammo?”

My son says. “Yes!! And some Yakult please!”

Rolling Eyes

Texan wit verses Essex wit lol

What can I say  Laughing

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:07 pm

Thorin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children


Hahahahaha funny story I think you’ll like.

Ben says  to my son (who’s home from Cambridge) “what do you need from Tesco tomorrow...guns, knives, ammo?”

My son says. “Yes!! And some Yakult please!”

Rolling Eyes

Texan wit verses Essex wit lol

What can I say  Laughing

Yeah and my son is SO precious Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:10 pm

eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Texan wit verses Essex wit lol

What can I say  Laughing

Yeah and my son is SO precious Rolling Eyes


Kind of sweet they bond so well...   Laughing

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:13 pm



There's a difference between...


a) Just going to the shops as you normally do, and just buying your normal level of stuff, as and when you normally do so, when you need the regular bits that you know you are running out of...


b) Doing other than is described above in example (a)...




If you are doing (a)... Then you are not part of the problem...


If you are doing (b)... Then you are part of the problem...




It's quite simple really!



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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

There's a difference between...


a) Just going to the shops as you normally do, and just buying your normal level of stuff, as and when you normally do so, when you need the regular bits that you know you are running out of...


b) Doing other than is described above in example (a)...




If you are doing (a)... Then you are not part of the problem...


If you are doing (b)... Then you are part of the problem...




It's quite simple really!




This is not a normal situation, when you have mouths to feed and others are bigger dicks with buying up all the food

Did you equate that into the above equation?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:32 pm





Which... In a nutshell... Is what 'panic buying' is all about...


Some idiots start doing (b)... Then loads of other idiots start doing the same...



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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:44 pm

Tommy, you seem to lump certain people into groups without understanding people as individuals with individual needs. I sometimes find that what you lack, is distinction, when it comes to people.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:54 pm

I wouldn't have gotten up that early if I could have been sure that Tesco would have toilet roll when I did my usual shop. The fact is, there are people in this country (in this world, really) with a cupboard stacked top to bottom with toilet roll. I was just making sure we got what we need -- we don't have enough to stay indoors for more than a few days.

Especially the way me and eddie drink ...

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:09 pm



We are all individuals with needs...


And we would all have the stuff we needed, if there weren't some individuals going around buying up more than what they normally would have individually done...



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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:01 am

Tommy Monk wrote:



Which... In a nutshell... Is what 'panic buying' is all about...


Some idiots start doing (b)... Then loads of other idiots start doing the same...




No that is a leap of faith to suggest that is what Ben did

If Ben gets up early because there is a lack of products, because of panic buying.

Is that him panic buying, or being sensible to the reality of the situation he now faces?

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:50 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

We are all individuals with needs...


And we would all have the stuff we needed, if there weren't some individuals going around buying up more than what they normally would have individually done...



At what point has Ben said he was buying more than usual? He said he goes out earlier (and with good reason).

If I go out and buy 6 eggs at 11am or 5am, I still only end up with 6 eggs Wink

Although in Ben's situation, if I go at 11am there is high chance I'll end up with no eggs at all.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:33 pm

Yawn...



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Post by gelico on Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:15 pm

eddie wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You do not have to justify yourself here Eddie

Seriously

The major difference here between you and Tommy is one major factor

You have children


Hahahahaha funny story I think you’ll like.

Ben says  to my son (who’s home from Cambridge) “what do you need from Tesco tomorrow...guns, knives, ammo?”

My son says. “Yes!! And some Yakult please!”

Rolling Eyes


lol!

i just felt i was looking into a mirror image of my own household

thanks edds x


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Post by nicko on Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:28 pm

My local Asda said the hours from 7 am to 9 am would be reserved for the elderly on a Friday morning. I got there at 7 am ,there must of been around two hundred people of all ages outside the doors ,security shouted "only the elderly please" , they were pushed aside by the Mob. I went Home disgusted and ashamed by these "British" people !
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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:40 pm

Tesco are doing Monday Wednesday and Friday early morning for older people.





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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 pm

Wow, I haven't posted here since the beginning of the lockdown!

Now it's nearly time for me to go back to Texas. It feels like a sword dangling over my head, as you can probably imagine.

I have to go back, get a job and earn money to come back as soon as possible, because eddie's going to have to go back to work soon and I'm needed to look out for the kids.

And I'm hoping that I have no problems with the Border Force when I come back -- because honestly, I probably would have left back in March had it not been for the pandemic. I'm just hoping that I get through as smoothly as I did the last time, and that if I'm questioned by an officer, they're understanding about the reason I stayed the full six months of my visitor's visa.

It's so hard to be sad about having to leave and still trying to enjoy the final few days. Lots of emotions to wrangle.

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Post by Vintage on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:09 pm

Hopefully soon this will be resolved for you. Wish I could do something.

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Post by eddie on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:15 pm

Vintage wrote:Hopefully soon this will be resolved for you. Wish I could do something.

Well, I was well on the way to hitting the financial requirement this time but then I was furloughed....so who knows? I hope immigration takes into account all the people like us, in this position.
Thanks for your kind words Vintage. I love you

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:19 pm

Vintage wrote:Hopefully soon this will be resolved for you. Wish I could do something.

Well, the pandemic has definitely thrown an unexpected wrench into our plans. The only think I could think of that anybody could do to help us now is to write their MP and say that too many truly loving married couples are kept apart by government policy.

As it stands right now, eddie has to prove to the Home Office that over a six-month span, she'd be on track to earn £18,600 before I can qualify for a spouse visa.

There are any number of other ways the government could handle this. For example, they might reduce the financial requirement, even by just a few thousand pound. That £18,600 figure is higher than the average UK salary and effectively makes it impossible for low-income couples to unite.

It could also help me meet that burden by issuing me a provisional, blanket work visa. It would be up to me to prove that I was willing to go out and work hard in order to be a legal UK resident.

I don't think either of those options would be unreasonable.

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Post by Vintage on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:26 pm

I agree, if you are willing to work that's great and you are legally married and you keep coming back must mean something, surely.
I could write to my MP that's no problem, can't say I usually bother with them but I will certainly do that..

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