Citing Brexit, automaker Tesla chooses Germany over UK for new facilities

The Tesla chief executive, Elon Musk, has said Brexit uncertainty played a role in the firm’s decision to build its first European factory in Germany rather than the UK.

The billionaire entrepreneur revealed that the firm’s European battery plant would be built on the outskirts of Berlin.

Speaking to Auto Express after making the announcement, Musk said: “Brexit [uncertainty] made it too risky to put a Gigafactory in the UK.”

The US electric carmaker also plans to locate a research and development base in the German capital. Musk announced the Berlin decision at a car industry awards ceremony on Tuesday night hosted by the German tabloid Bild.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/tesla-cites-brexit-as-germany-chosen-over-uk-for-european-plant-elon-musk

There will be plenty of ways that have nothing to do with the EU in which Brexit will hurt the UK.

But at least this guy's got something to smile about!

This wouldn't be a problem, if they had finished Brexit within a century of passing it.

This Brexit is going to take longer than our Brexit, and no one is shooting at each other.

But Brexiteers will put their fingers in their ears and think of Empire and Churchill and Dunkirk and scream how we'll be great again - whatever business people and pesky experts have to say...

Other automobile brands are going to make the same calculation as Tesla. It's common sense. They all face the same issues, and when they run the same algorithms they will all come up with the same answers.

How do you think outsourcing became such a big issue? These guys talk to each other.

Eilzel wrote:But Brexiteers will put their fingers in their ears and think of Empire and Churchill and Dunkirk and scream how we'll be great again - whatever business people and pesky experts have to say...

The problem here isn't Brexit. Tesla, like any other multinational, doesn't like uncertainty. It's the fact that it's taking forever to do it and no one even knows what it will like, 3 years after it was passed.

Get on with it and things will settle down.

  Wishful thinking.  It's not the time departure will take, but the situation that the UK will be left with absent any EU privileges.

Any manufacturer that builds a plant in Britain, will face prohibitive tariffs on their products made in the UK.  You drag your partners along with you.

[quote="Original Quill"]   Wishful thinking.  It's not the time departure will take, but the situation that the UK will be left with absent any EU privileges.

Any manufacturer that builds a plant in Britain, will face prohibitive tariffs on their products made in the UK.  You drag your partners along with you.[/quote

Exactly right.

Yes, maddog, the long break up is creating uncertainty, but Brexit achieved will not end that. It will only lead to years of trade negotiations with the EU and USA simultaneously, and which themselves will likely be in conflict with one another. Getting Brexit Done, as our own resident blonde beachball PM says, does not create certainty and you know this wasn't all Musk was referring to.

Hardly any new firms are starting and many old ones have packed up and left town.  No one is going to touch us with a bargepole till we sort out Brexit one way or the other. 'In limbo' is not a good look.

Just from a 'logistics' viewpointt alone, countries like Germany and Poland would be better placed as distribution centres for European operations  ???

Whereas Britain and Russia actually "bookend" the European continent..

And then there's the possible tax breaks and any help with infrastructure that various countries might offer, once a potential large-scale manufacturer narrows down their desirable new sites.

Even if you believe the claim in this article that this choice of creating this manufacturing plant in Germany was anything yo do with Brexit... the key word is the UNCERTAINTY around Brexit... which has been because of the dithering and messing about caused by the remoaners both in parliament and elsewhere...


But I reckon the whole story is guff... and Germany would have always been the choice, regardless...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Even if you believe the claim in this article that this choice of creating this manufacturing plant in Germany was anything yo do with Brexit... the key word is the UNCERTAINTY around Brexit... which has been because of the dithering and messing about caused by the remoaners both in parliament and elsewhere...


But I reckon the whole story is guff... and Germany would have always been the choice, regardless...!

All we know is what Elon Musk said. And he said it was because of the uncertainty around Brexit.

Does that mean he wasn't certain when it would happen? Or that he was uncertain about what would happen after the exit of the UK from the EU?

Common sense says the latter.

Are we really suggesting that brexit should not happen. Based off one buisnessman. Who I might add has had many buisness failures?

Seriously?

If we based a view on this on one person, I mean what the fuck

I never knew the world revolved around Elon Musk

phildidge wrote:Are we really suggesting that brexit should not happen. Based off one buisnessman. Who I might add has had many buisness failures?

Seriously?

If we based a view on this on one person, I mean what the fuck

I never knew the world revolved around Elon Musk

Of course not, but he's hardly the only businessman to make a decision like this, is he?

So let me get this argument straight here.

We should all stop and not follow our beliefs based on the view to have a business be in Germany which is on the point of recession? From a buisnessman with many failures.

Is this what Ben is suggesting we base a difference of opinion on?

One single man

Not the many countries and business people willing to do buisness with the uk?

Fuck me Ben, I thought you had an ounce of intelligence

Forgive me if I am wrong, but do you think the uk should be blackmailed here?

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:Are we really suggesting that brexit should not happen. Based off one buisnessman. Who I might add has had many buisness failures?

Seriously?

If we based a view on this on one person, I mean what the fuck

I never knew the world revolved around Elon Musk

Of course not, but he's hardly the only businessman to make a decision like this, is he?

So why have you not weighed this up with billionaires that do want to do buisness with a post brexit UK and invest here?

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:Are we really suggesting that brexit should not happen. Based off one buisnessman. Who I might add has had many buisness failures?

Seriously?

If we based a view on this on one person, I mean what the fuck

I never knew the world revolved around Elon Musk

Of course not, but he's hardly the only businessman to make a decision like this, is he?

So why have you not weighed this up with billionaires that do want to do buisness with a post brexit UK and invest here?

Do they exist?

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

So why have you not weighed this up with billionaires that do want to do buisness with a post brexit UK and invest here?

Do they exist?

Yes

Whyare all them not joining Elon here?

I doubt Elon will make good on his word

Money talks

Ben Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Even if you believe the claim in this article that this choice of creating this manufacturing plant in Germany was anything yo do with Brexit... the key word is the UNCERTAINTY around Brexit... which has been because of the dithering and messing about caused by the remoaners both in parliament and elsewhere...


But I reckon the whole story is guff... and Germany would have always been the choice, regardless...!

All we know is what Elon Musk said. And he said it was because of the uncertainty around Brexit.

Does that mean he wasn't certain when it would happen? Or that he was uncertain about what would happen after the exit of the UK from the EU?

Common sense says the latter.

Uncertainty? It's an ambiguous term. Was Musk talking about the uncertain delay, or was he talking about the uncertain outcome? I think he was declaring the whole Brexit move as an uncertain--or unwise--thing.

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:Are we really suggesting that brexit should not happen. Based off one buisnessman. Who I might add has had many buisness failures?

Seriously?

If we based a view on this on one person, I mean what the fuck

I never knew the world revolved around Elon Musk

Of course not, but he's hardly the only businessman to make a decision like this, is he?

Exactly.

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

So why have you not weighed this up with billionaires that do want to do buisness with a post brexit UK and invest here?

Do they exist?

Do you know what makes me laugh is over the last few years is many left wing headlines stating about billionaires bankrolling brexit

Or have you only just woken up in 2019?

phil wrote:Do you know what makes me laugh is over the last few years is many left wing headlines stating about billionaires bankrolling brexit

Elon Musk is only one of many decision-makers who must decide whether or not to locate in Britain.  They all face the same situation, and the same obstacles.  He represents a sample, if you will, of a population of decision makers facing the same questions.

Therefore, Mosk is foretelling of the problems and issues that the UK will face, with Britain having decided to go it alone in Europe.  You cannot isolate Musk and say he is but one person.  Nor can you go down the rabbit-hole of it-is-a-sin-having-money.  No doubt capitalists are bastards, but focus on this: Mosk is one of many who, facing a question of whether to invest in Britain, is deciding to go elsewhere.  That's all he presently represents to us.  His actions are a sign of Britain's future.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:Do you know what makes me laugh is over the last few years is many left wing headlines stating about billionaires bankrolling brexit

Elon Musk is only one of many decision-makers who must decide whether or not to locate in Britain.  They all face the same situation, and the same obstacles.  He represents a sample, if you will, of a population of decision makers facing the same questions.

Therefore, Mosk is foretelling of the problems and issues that the UK will face, with Britain having decided to go it alone in Europe.  You cannot isolate Musk and say he is but one person.  Nor can you go down the rabbit-hole of it-is-a-sin-having-money.  No doubt capitalists are bastards, but focus on this: Mosk is one of many who, facing a question of whether to invest in Britain, is deciding to go elsewhere.  That's all he presently represents to us.  His actions are a sign of Britain's future.

He is simple playing safe with this new factory
Others do not share his views
Simple as that
He is not fortelling anything. He is simple bottling it, through a fear
Nothing to with isolating Musk
You really come out with the biggest load of crap at times
All of your points have nothing to do with my sentence

phil wrote:He is not fortelling anything. He is simple bottling it, through a fear

I'm afraid you don't get it, didge.  Mosk's actions are a foregone conclusion.  He's not doing anything...he's already done it.  He has turned his back on the UK as a site for his new factory.  End of Mosk's contribution to our discussion.

Now, it's for us to judge what that means.  What it means is that people in a similar situation will make the same decision.  Other people, considering to place a manufacturing operation in Europe, will decline the UK as too chancy.  Not because Mosk did so; but because they face the same criteria, and ultimately the same decisions.

People in like circumstances will make like decisions.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:He is not fortelling anything. He is simple bottling it, through a fear

I'm afraid you don't get it, didge.  Mosk's actions are a foregone conclusion.  He's not doing anything...he's already done it.  He has turned his back on the UK as a site for his new factory.  End of Mosk's contribution to our discussion.

Now, it's for us to judge what that means.  What it means is that people in a similar situation will make the same decision.  Other people, considering to place a manufacturing operation in Europe, will decline the UK as too chancy.  Not because Mosk did so; but because they face the same criteria, and ultimately the same decisions.

People in like circumstances will make like decisions.

Nobody carees as its one factory
It benefits Germany and brxit is not bound by this
His stance is based offr the fact that Brexit has not been resolved
Not any view on Brexit itself as a position
What it means is very little when he has not withdrawn his other assessts in the Uk

People like honesty which you lack here or are simple ignorant of the reality

phil wrote:Nobody carees as its one factory

That's right. And it's one decision...everyone will make the same way.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:Nobody carees as its one factory

That's right.  And it's one decision...everyone will make the same way.

Will they when countless countries have already made trade agreements with the UK?

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's right.  And it's one decision...everyone will make the same way.

Will they when countless countries have already made trade agreements with the UK?

Size matters.  And success is dependent on location, location. location.  Y'all just abandoned your biggest, nearest partners.  Mosk is an example (a 'fortelling') of what is to come.

Your position is getting weaker and weaker by the moment. Y'all keep retreating to a new excuse.  First, there was the prediction, and y'all said 'No way!'  Then, Mosk brings the prediction to life, and y'all say '...well. there are others'.  Finally, when nations simply abandon you, y'all will say '...it doesn't matter...we like being broke and hungry'.  

Funny world of Tories, innit. Rash and intemperate.  

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:


Will they when countless countries have already made trade agreements with the UK?

Size matters.  And success is dependent on location, location. location.  Y'all just abandoned your biggest, nearest partners.  Mosk is an example (a 'fortelling') of what is to come.

Your position is getting weaker and weaker by the moment.  Y'all keep retreating to a new excuse.  First, there was the prediction, and y'all said 'No way!'  Then, Mosk brings the prediction to life, and y'all say '...well. there are others'.  Finally, when nations simply abandon you, y'all will say '...it doesn't matter...we like being broke and hungry'.  

Funny world of Tories, innit.  Rash and intemperate.  

Musk already has buisnessess in the Uk
Its more about the uncertainty around brexit not being resolved
The reality is, if people had not of fuicked around on this and Brexit had of been done
Its more likley he would have chosen the Uk, based around his view of British engineering

Doubt it. If it were just Brexit timing, he would not have gone elsewhere, permanently. After all, if he were as confident as y'all are, he wouldn't hesitate.

Original Quill wrote:Doubt it.  If it were just Brexit timing, he would not have gone elsewhere, permanently.  After all, if he were as confident as y'all are, he wouldn't hesitate.

Again you have not the first clue what you are taking about
If brexit was the reasoning for him to not place a factory here. He would have never entertained the idea of placing a factory here in the first place. Being as the referendum was 3 years ago.

If Brexit was the reason, he would have straight away decided to place this factory in germany the first moment he conceived the idea to build his electric cars factory in Europe and yet he never did back then

Like i said, its not brexit that is his reason to not build his factory. But the very nature of the uncertainty around Brexit not being resolved. As to his decision here

Hence your views were so poor and based again on some warped paranoia, devoid of his actual intentions

As he was going to choose the Uk based on his clear and very much praise worthy view of British engineering. Specifically around forumula 1 racing. It would have always been far cheaper for him to choose germany, but his first choice was the Uk based on the innovation and skill of British enginneers. This is why you are so wrong on so many factors

phil wrote:Again you have not the first clue what you are taking about

I have not been coy about it. It's right out front. Britain shot itself in the foot.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:Again you have not the first clue what you are taking about

I have not been coy about it.  It's right out front.  Britain shot itself in the foot.

Like with the Peral harbour thread, you got this wrong again

phil wrote:If brexit was the reasoning for him to not place a factory here. He would have never entertained the idea of placing a factory here in the first place. Being as the referendum was 3 years ago.

If Brexit was the reason, he would have straight away decided to place this factory in germany the first moment he conceived the idea to build his electric cars factory in Europe and yet he never did back then

Like i said, its not brexit that is his reason to not build his factory. But the very nature of the uncertainty around Brexit not being resolved. As to his decision here

So you think other factors dissuaded Mosk?  If it wasn't Brexit, they why would timing matter?

Isn't it waiting to see what will come of Brexit?  One possibility of it is A, and one possibility will be B.  One is good, the other bad?  Bad enough to walk away, leaving the deal on the table.

So, it's not the delay, it's the outcome.  The uncertainty of the outcome matters, else the delay would be irrelevant.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:If brexit was the reasoning for him to not place a factory here. He would have never entertained the idea of placing a factory here in the first place. Being as the referendum was 3 years ago.

If Brexit was the reason, he would have straight away decided to place this factory in germany the first moment he conceived the idea to build his electric cars factory in Europe and yet he never did back then

Like i said, its not brexit that is his reason to not build his factory. But the very nature of the uncertainty around Brexit not being resolved. As to his decision here

So you think other factors dissuaded Mosk?  If it wasn't Brexit, they why would timing matter?

Isn't it waiting to see what will come of Brexit?  One possibility of it is A, and one possibility will be B.  One is good, the other bad?  Bad enough to walk away, leaving the deal on the table.

So, it's not the delay, it's the outcome.  The uncertainty of the outcome matters, else the delay would be irrelevant.

Its been 3 years since the referendum

Clearly its the uncertainty around not resolving this either way

But if Brexit doesn't matter substantively at all, mere delay is not unsettling?

Original Quill wrote:But if Brexit doesn't matter substantively at all, mere delay is not unsettling?  

The delay is the issue when it has gone on for 3 years

How much longer will it go on?

Hence I can understand his reservations

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:But if Brexit doesn't matter substantively at all, mere delay is not unsettling?  

The delay is the issue when it has gone on for 3 years

How much longer will it go on?

Hence I can understand his reservations

3 years is a long time. But in the end we'll see if it matters. I believe the damage has already been done.

Maybe Musk thought 3 years ago that Brexit would be done quickly and he'd be able to move forward, but now he's had time (like everyone else) to look at the ramifications and that changed his mind.

Ben Reilly wrote:Maybe Musk thought 3 years ago that Brexit would be done quickly and he'd be able to move forward, but now he's had time (like everyone else) to look at the ramifications and that changed his mind.

Maybe. Whatever the story, it is Brexit that has changed his mind, and not the pace of the transition.

Don't forget that Germany benefits massively from being in the Euro 'one size fits all' currency...


"...A key issue of Euromembership is that Germanexports are more competitive than if Germany had its own currency. ... Without membership of the Euro,Germany would have more expensive exports, higher unemployment and lower economic growth..."

Tommy Monk wrote:

Don't forget that Germany benefits massively from being in the Euro 'one size fits all' currency...


"...A key issue of Euromembership is that Germanexports are more competitive than if Germany had its own currency. ... Without membership of the Euro,Germany would have more expensive exports, higher unemployment and lower economic growth..."

If I understand you correctly, that would be what Britain is foregoing. Brexit would make the UK an outsider.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Don't forget that Germany benefits massively from being in the Euro 'one size fits all' currency...


"...A key issue of Euromembership is that Germanexports are more competitive than if Germany had its own currency. ... Without membership of the Euro,Germany would have more expensive exports, higher unemployment and lower economic growth..."

If I understand you correctly, that would be what Britain is foregoing.  Brexit would make the UK an outsider.

I think you totally misunderstand the point I was making...


I was talking about the €...

Brexiteers won't acknowledge the danger to industry till

A) new factories stop opening in the UK completely and most we have have left.

B) the govt demolish corporation tax and workers' rights so more come but they pay little in tax and wages flatline.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

If I understand you correctly, that would be what Britain is foregoing.  Brexit would make the UK an outsider.

I think you totally misunderstand the point I was making...


I was talking about the €...

Still, what is true in one instance, is true in all instances.

We still have the £...

Eilzel wrote:Brexiteers won't acknowledge the danger to industry till

A) new factories stop opening in the UK completely and most we have have left.

B) the govt demolish corporation tax and workers' rights so more come but they pay little in tax and wages flatline.

Most peoplehave been listening to your scare mongering predictions for the last 3 years where none have to come to pass

There is no danger to industry. It is yet again remoaner scare mongering bullshit

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Brexiteers won't acknowledge the danger to industry till

A) new factories stop opening in the UK completely and most we have have left.

B) the govt demolish corporation tax and workers' rights so more come but they pay little in tax and wages flatline.

Most peoplehave been listening to your scare mongering predictions for the last 3 years where none have to come to pass

There is no danger to industry. It is yet again remoaner scare mongering bullshit

I listen to the likes of Musk and Nissan over you to be fair. I.e. Companies that are actually moving/not coming to the UK and have openly cited Brexit as the reason.

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Most peoplehave been listening to your scare mongering predictions for the last 3 years where none have to come to pass

There is no danger to industry. It is yet again remoaner scare mongering bullshit

I listen to the likes of Musk and Nissan over you to be fair. I.e. Companies that are actually moving/not coming to the UK and have openly cited Brexit as the reason.

So a small number of companies and not the many that continue to move here?
Musk did not decide Germany based on Brexit itself
He decided due to the continued reality of this not being resolved yet
So why are you only listening to some companies and not all?
Hence the problem with remoaners
I at least listen to all and yet you are selective, based on your bias

Go figure

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Most peoplehave been listening to your scare mongering predictions for the last 3 years where none have to come to pass

There is no danger to industry. It is yet again remoaner scare mongering bullshit

I listen to the likes of Musk and Nissan over you to be fair. I.e. Companies that are actually moving/not coming to the UK and have openly cited Brexit as the reason.

So a small number of companies and not the many that continue to move here?
Musk did not decide Germany based on Brexit itself
He decided due to the continued reality of this not being resolved yet
So why are you only listening to some companies and not all?
Hence the problem with remoaners
I at least listen to all and yet you are selective, based on your bias

Go figure

If the price of companies coming to the UK is severe derregulation then that won't be worth it.

Name some companies coming to the UK because of Brexit.

It isn't a few, these are just noteworthy examples, and if we end up with a bad trade agreement, or no deal, more will go/stay away.

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

So a small number of companies and not the many that continue to move here?
Musk did not decide Germany based on Brexit itself
He decided due to the continued reality of this not being resolved yet
So why are you only listening to some companies and not all?
Hence the problem with remoaners
I at least listen to all and yet you are selective, based on your bias

Go figure

If the price of companies coming to the UK is severe derregulation then that won't be worth it.

Name some companies coming to the UK because of Brexit.

It isn't a few, these are just noteworthy examples, and if we end up with a bad trade agreement, or no deal, more will go/stay away.

Name companies?

No problem
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/204004/UK_European_Headquarters_Brochure.pdf

https://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/09/06/raspberry-pi-moves-manufacturing-china-uk/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27046286

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/pharmaceuticalsandchemicals/9937889/AstraZeneca-moves-HQ-to-Cambridge-in-research-revamp.html

Fuck me, sometimes you really come across as a really indoctrinated  drone Eilzel
Brainwashed people like yourself you cannot look at both sides is the problems we face today
Again i voted to remain and would rather we did, but the bullshit that you come with on this is not only embarressing. It shows again how like religious idiots you are led by fear