Racism exists...in all ways

First topic message reminder :

Taken from Facebook:

Dear McDonald's worker who will probably never see this....,
Ur drive thru windows aren't sound proof. Ur probably wondering y I had tears in my eyes when u handed me my iced coffee... or maybe not, judging by the words u said after handing me my oatmeal...
"Look at this white girl, tryin to wrap her head. Lookin all stupid"
As u and ur coworker laughed and passed judgement on my poor head wrap job, I hope ur day gets better. I went to McDonald's for an iced coffee and oatmeal to try to make my day better, but u made it worse. I hope u never get sick. I hope ur healthy and thriving for ur life. I hope ur family members r healthy and happy. Cuz I didnt wrap my head to try to be anything in particular... I wrapped it cuz I shaved my head when my hair was falling out from chemo and having a baby, and yesterday my stepson told me he liked it. I wrapped it cuz the scarf was given to me from a woman at the office I get radiation treatments from. I also wrapped it cuz I haven't showered in 2 days cuz I'm a mom who is still trying to figure out how to juggle everything.
So, thank you for reminding me to be careful with my words... and to not judge a book by the cover.

Sincerely,
That "stupid white girl"

**edit** I love that my friends and family members have commented and messaged asking which one so they can call and take up for me, but I really posted this as a reminder to be kind- not to get anyone in trouble or to have them inadvertently lose their job that pays their bills. So, please... just be kind!
Love your neighbor as yourself Mark 12:31:purple_heart:

There is still slavery in many forms today and its certainly not only black people.
Every power large or small have enslaved other people because they think them of lesser importance than themselves
and even their own people for various reasons. This is the story from east to west and north to south, in historical terms the general length of time seems to be 200 to 400 year of dominance by one power over other regions.
Western Europeans were targeted for about three centuries by Vikings, they even founded Dublin as a slave trading centre, then expanded on to trading slaves in the Slavic area hence we get the word slave. The Arabs have had a massive slave trade from Africa and the Med, Barbary Pirates targeted the West coasts of Europe, the Ottomans took young Christian boys mainly from the Balkans and give them to Turkish families to be brought up as Muslims they became the Janissaries. We haven't touched on sub Saharan African empires slave trade nor the south American or Asian trade. The past is the past, we need to concentrate on modern slavery which is world wide and happening all the time right now.

+1

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In our time, in our culture, yes.  Shame on us.  

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

And what was slavery, if not building up the debt.  Maybe a better word would be reparations--or something that capitalist minds would understand: repaying a debt.

phil wrote:Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

A truly Trumpian answer if I ever heard one: I created the debt, but I don't have to pay it back!  My children can live in the towers that this equity created, but they inherit it rent free.  While the people we cheated out of their assets must live in the rat-infested parts, and be cheated out of their participation in rectification by voter suppression.

It's the truly capitalist, Tory, Republican way.  Applaud the oppressor, as he has invented ingenious ways to cheat the powerless.

Vintage wrote:There is still slavery in many forms today and its certainly not only black people.
Every power large or small have enslaved other people because they think them of lesser importance than themselves
and even their own people for various reasons. This is the story from east to west and north to south, in historical terms the general length of time seems to be 200 to 400 year of dominance by one power over other regions.
Western Europeans were targeted for about three centuries by Vikings, they even founded Dublin as a slave trading centre, then expanded on to trading slaves in the Slavic area hence we get the word slave. The Arabs have had a massive slave trade from Africa and the Med, Barbary Pirates targeted the West coasts of Europe, the Ottomans took young Christian boys mainly from the Balkans and give them to Turkish families to be brought up as Muslims they became the Janissaries. We haven't touched on sub Saharan African empires slave trade nor the south American or Asian trade. The past is the past, we need to concentrate on modern slavery which is world wide and happening all the time right now.

Some sectors of our so-called Traveller Community still practice human slavery, the scale of which was described as "shocking" by a judge during one trial a few years ago.

Cases (including two recent ones near where I live) go largely unreported by all but the local Press because the first thing that happens when police try to enter traveller camps to pursue allegations, is that their retained lawyers start screaming "racial prejudice" in an attempt to intimidate officers and the CPS who fear formal investigations being made about them.

The fact is, of course, that mainly Irish travellers ludicrously claim to be an "ethnic minority" which, by any stretch of the most fertile imagination, they are not, any more than I am. Only traditional Romany Gypsies can legitimately claim that status.

In the meantime "racial prejudice and harassment" continues to be the default "defence" on the relatively rare occasions that these people find themselves arrested and taken to court to answer for the petty theft, breaking and entering, fly-tipping, despoilation of public and private property, violence and anti-social behaviour that have now become the lot of those of us unlucky enough to live near their legal and illegal camps.

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

And what was slavery, if not building up the debt.  Maybe a better word would be reparations--or something that capitalist minds would understand: repaying a debt.

Absurd reasoning on every level. The people enslaved no longer are alive today and neither are the people that enslaved them. Who are you going to pay reparations too? You want to award people generations down the line? And only those who had african ancestors? By opening such an absurd view point. You open the door to anyone who had an ancestor group that suffered oppression, slavery etc. Which would include many Brits. So to you the Germans, vikings, Italians, Arabs etc all owe reparations, to our ancestors, correct?

The only reparations that make sense is to those who are alive today who suffered under Jim crow, and that has nothing to with "us", but "you".

+1 to Fred and Vintage

phil wrote:The people enslaved no longer are alive today and neither are the people that enslaved them.

So, you don't believe inheritance? If you want to go that way, be prepared to give back all the assets your ancestors built up. Or...be willing to pass on the debts as well as the assets.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:The people enslaved no longer are alive today and neither are the people that enslaved them.

So, you don't believe inheritance?  If you want to go that way, be prepared to give back all the assets your ancestors built up.  Or...be willing to pass on the debts as well as the assets.

My ancestors? On my paternal side, the Maltese, they were conquered, occupied by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Romans, Byzantian Greeks, Arabs, Normans, a religious Christian order, then the French, and finally the British. Then we have the Irish maternal side, who were for most of history under English occupation and rule.

Explain to me how being ethnically Maltese/Irish, how I have inherited such a debt from the non-existant assests of my ancestors?
Are you saying simple that because i was born to the Uk and have like every single other British citizen, no matter whether white, black, asian etc. That now I and every other British citizen owes a debt to ancestors of African slaves in the US?

Is this your position?

Or that because I am white or some warped claim of a white culture. Where it was a religiously based prejudiced culture that enabled the slaved trade. That I owe a debt to African slaves now long dead, that none of my family benefited from? Are you suggesting a racist view, that now all white people born to the future owe a debt, to a crime they never commited? You are basically holding a racist stance to people born white, no matter their nations part or even non part in the African slave trade?

What if some Black British people descend from African slave traders today, who enabled slavery by capturing other tribes to seel to the British. Do they also be paid a debt that they created?

You see Quill you actually argue the worst racism yourself. As I owe no debt, neither does the many people born to this nation, who were never part of the slave trade.

The fact you think my ancestors are responsible, when they were for the better part of over 2000 years occupied. Are now liable for some other nations crime and because I was born here, that makes me liable. Has to go down as just about the most utterly ridiculous fucked up wokeness stupidity, you have ever come out with

How fucking dare you walk all over the hardship of my ancestors with your fucked up wokeness, when they suffered under occupation
I dont call for repreations from the hardship of my ancestors, as the people who did this are long dead

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In our time, in our culture, yes.  Shame on us.  

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

Fine then, give back all of your inheritance from the people who stole from the rightful owners. You would look rather ridiculous standing on a Kentish street corner, stark naked.

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

Fine then, give back all of your inheritance from the people who stole from the rightful owners.  You would look rather ridiculous standing on a Kentish street corner, stark naked.  

What inheritance? During the slave tade, the vast majority of the British populace lived in abject poverty and appalling conditions?

Quill, why is it you feel that way about Europeans owing a debt to African slaves in the US, when since time immemorial everybody has taken assets from those they have conquered or dominated economically., when will the US begin to give back what it has acquired by fair means or foul, mostly the later. The Romans for instance took gold, silver, tin, corn, horses, dogs and people from Britain, should we now send Italy an invoice?
The UK and Northern Island are well known for their Overseas Aid and Charity and bringing many people here for health problems, if there is a debt to pay it isn't the common people's debt but they are still prepared to help those who need it even though we still have people who are barely surviving. When the slave trade was happening do you seriously think the common folk of Britain had it so good, if you do you are very ignorant of history but somehow I doubt that, I just think you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

Vintage wrote:Quill, why is it you feel that way about Europeans owing a debt to African slaves in the US, when since time immemorial everybody has taken assets from those they have conquered or dominated economically., when will the US begin to give back what it has acquired by fair means or foul, mostly the later. The Romans for instance took gold, silver, tin, corn, horses, dogs and people from Britain, should we now send Italy an invoice?
The UK and Northern Island are well known for their Overseas Aid and Charity and bringing many people here for health problems, if there is a debt to pay it isn't the common people's debt but they are still prepared to help those who need it even though we still have people who are barely surviving. When the slave trade was happening do you seriously think the common folk of Britain had it so good, if you do you are very ignorant of history but somehow I doubt that, I just think you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason.  

+1

Vintage wrote:Quill, why is it you feel that way about Europeans owing a debt to African slaves in the US, when since time immemorial everybody has taken assets from those they have conquered or dominated economically., when will the US begin to give back what it has acquired by fair means or foul, mostly the later. The Romans for instance took gold, silver, tin, corn, horses, dogs and people from Britain, should we now send Italy an invoice?
The UK and Northern Island are well known for their Overseas Aid and Charity and bringing many people here for health problems, if there is a debt to pay it isn't the common people's debt but they are still prepared to help those who need it even though we still have people who are barely surviving. When the slave trade was happening do you seriously think the common folk of Britain had it so good, if you do you are very ignorant of history but somehow I doubt that, I just think you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason.  

Great post. Be prepared for a bullshit answer.

+1

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In our time, in our culture, yes.  Shame on us.  

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

When I take out a loan from the Bank, is it "self-flagellation" to pay it back? You have that Tory/Republican idea that to cheat others is the best example of manliness. Well, it isn't...honor/integrity is the best example of manliness.

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

When I take out a loan from the Bank, is it "self-flagellation" to pay it back?  You have that Tory/Republican idea that to cheat others is the best example of manliness.  Well, it isn't...honor/integrity is the best example of manliness.

How have I cheated others being born into the Uk from maltese/Irish parents?
My ancestry has nothing to do with the african slave trade and yet you hold a racist stance that i should pay for this based on my parents and their ancestors living under occupation and colinialism themselves?

'White girl' would not be a term used if they were white, 'head wrapping' is a term mainly associated with Africa and used to be with African slaves, although other people use a scarf in the same styles or techniques, almost universally but don't use the particular term, is fairly evident, I think this is racist however minor.
Those of African descent in countries other than Africa who want to differentiate themselves from their fellow citizens copy this term and style.

phildidge wrote:

What inheritance? During the slave tade,

the vast majority of the British populace lived in abject poverty and appalling conditions?

This has always been the case, tho. Capitalism!. The vast majority of people have always been infinitely poorer than the 1% at the top. The fact that wealth went to the top 1% and none went to the peasants,  does not change anything. Enslaved & indentured people were still grotesquely robbed, irrespective of who actually benefited from their free labours.  


The wealth gap has always been high and it peaked during the reign of Edward 7th. He & his inner circle lived lives of extreme luxury that were far removed from ordinary folks'. Soon after his reign WW1 happened so that changed the wealth dynamics slightly, for a while. The wealth went into building palatial mansions and estates in every single city on both sides of the Atlantic. The evidence is still very much around, it's right there, in plain sigh.

I don't think reparations is a feasible option, it's never going to happen. But the reason you have given is wrong.

Vintage wrote:'White girl' would not be a term used if they were white, 'head wrapping' is a term mainly associated with Africa and used to be with African slaves, although other people use a scarf in the same styles or techniques, almost universally but don't use the particular term, is fairly evident, I think this is racist however minor.
Those of African descent in countries other than Africa who want to differentiate themselves from their fellow citizens copy this term and style.

You've already said that. No need to repeat it cos it's not me who needs convincing.

But I'm glad that you agree that it was a minor incident, in the scheme of things. You do realise that lots of other people -of all colours - would have been just as insensitive to her as those two co-workers? Don't be naïve enough to think this was a one off. Remember the story I posted about that airhostess, upthread.

I did say about the 'white girl' agreed but not the rest, thank you.
Maybe people would have been inconsiderate to her, its not very nice when people comment on your lack of hair or head covering due to chemo or some other medical reason, that's ignorance but when you bring in colour and try to use an 'ethnic' reference, that you probably don't even really understand, to disrespect someone that's racism.

Jules wrote:

phildidge wrote:

What inheritance? During the slave tade,

the vast majority of the British populace lived in abject poverty and appalling conditions?

This has always been the case, tho. Capitalism!. The vast majority of people have always been infinitely poorer than the 1% at the top. The fact that wealth went to the top 1% and none went to the peasants,  does not change anything. Enslaved & indentured people were still grotesquely robbed, irrespective of who actually benefited from their free labours.  



I don't think reparations is a feasible option, it's never going to happen. But the reason you have given is wrong.

Capitalism has never been the problem. If that was the cas,e nobody would have ever gotten out of poverty
In fact the biggest and best eradication of poverty and continues to do so is capitalism
It has its flaws, but to say capitalism, is very short sighted, when the problem is of those who are greedy

I do not really care or mind what people earn, as long as others earn enought to live a decent life

Socialism is the cause of most Poverty,Take a look round, no country that favours it has ever been successful !

nicko wrote:Socialism is the cause of most Poverty,Take a look round, no country that favours it has ever been successful !
.

Don't confuse "socialism" with authoritarian communism,  nicko...

All you (and Dodge, maddog, Tommy, Victor, etc..) continue to do here is to demonstrate your ignorance of just what a genuine socialist democracy actually is..


Despite what their dictators have falsely labelled themselves, the following countries were/are  not genuine "socialist" states ==

The USSR
Nazi Germany
East Germany
North Korea
Zimbabwe
Venezuela
Vietnam

Do you really consider that Australia, Canada, France, New Zealand, Sweden and co. were really actually "failed states" when they have had left-leaning governments applying genuine "socialist" policies..

And, of course, we all know that you and Dodge would rather sell your NHS off to Indian and American health funds, so that you will all have to pay more money for less services.

Load of Bollocks Wolfie, the only parts of the NHS that were discussed about being sold off were the ancillary services ,cleaning, food etc !

EU rules force the taxpayer funded public sector to open up to letting private companies run large parts of it for profit...!

EU procurement rules force this!

phildidge wrote:

Jules wrote:


This has always been the case, tho. Capitalism!. The vast majority of people have always been infinitely poorer than the 1% at the top. The fact that wealth went to the top 1% and none went to the peasants, does not change anything. Enslaved & indentured people were still grotesquely robbed, irrespective of who actually benefited from their free labours.



I don't think reparations is a feasible option, it's never going to happen. But the reason you have given is wrong.

Capitalism has never been the problem. If that was the cas,e nobody would have ever gotten out of poverty
In fact the biggest and best eradication of poverty and continues to do so is capitalism
It has its flaws, but to say capitalism, is very short sighted, when the problem is of those who are greedy

I do not really care or mind what people earn, as long as others earn enough to live a decent life

Capitalism is always problematical, because it places a higher priority on profit than on the public wellbeing. A market is inevitably a two-stage process, in which needs meet production. The market transforms needs into production, but if, and only if it is profitable to producers.

Quite frankly, that is the reason why our instinct is to leave essential services to socialist organizations, be they fire, police, ambulances, or the largest most powerful socialist organization in the world....the US military. If we allow such services to be conditioned on profit, they may never get done. In this, there is a lesson.

The reason for this is found in an old adage: if you want something done, do it yourself. Never divert your efforts through a market, dependent as it is on constant flow of profit, before getting the safety and protection you want out of essential services. If it is not profitable it is apt not to get done. We can't have essential services that cease to get delivered under any conditions.

This leaves producers with the ability to withhold production if there is anything that is not profitable, or if 'something' over there is more profitable. That 'something' is inevitably monopolization. When you own the whole market, instead of just participating in it, you have absolute control over price, and hence profit. Capitalism, because of the nature in which humans engage in competition, inevitably reduces to monopolization.

Let's say you have a race. Each individual must run to the best of his or her ability to compete, and hopefully win. OR....you can simply kill all the other competitors and, voilà, you also win. Capitalism finds it much easier to simply bump each other off and win the race that way, than to spend all that energy to win at a cost from within. Monopolization of the race in this way has the advantage that you win no matter how much effort you put in. You keep costs down, you raise profits. Ergo: capitalism inevitably leads to monopolization.

This is why, in terms of market activity, you see much less innovation of product, and much more of mergers and buy-outs. They are simply killing each other off, so they can optimize their monopoly position.

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Capitalism has never been the problem. If that was the cas,e nobody would have ever gotten out of poverty
In fact the biggest and best eradication of poverty and continues to do so is capitalism
It has its flaws, but to say capitalism, is very short sighted, when the problem is of those who are greedy

I do not really care or mind what people earn, as long as others earn enough to live a decent life

Capitalism is always problematical, because it places a higher priority on profit than on the public wellbeing.  A market is inevitably a two-stage process, in which needs meet production.  The market transforms needs into production, but if, and only if it is profitable to producers.

What a load of gibberish and again I have said there is flaws in capitalism, but socialism?

Simple facts

Capitalism has gotten hundreds of millions out of poverty

The only real socialist Goverments economically in history have murdered of well over a hundred million people due to their economic socialist plans

Its a no brainer that the socialist economic system is essentially a medical condition, that is litteraly life threatening

I see Wolf is being an apologist also for Far left socialist regemes in histroy

wow

nicko wrote:Load of Bollocks Wolfie, the only parts of the NHS that were discussed about being sold off were the ancillary services ,cleaning, food etc !

Actually, Wolf is spot on. Socialism is an economic theory. It is the polar opposite of capitalism. Back in the 17th century, very few tools were that difficult to make, or were handed down master to apprentice. The industrial revolution changed all that, and tooling became complicated mills, conveyor belts, machines and cutters...the cost of which became prohibitive.

In order to set up a business, one needed capital. There were several options, among them guilds, unions and of course groups of wealthy people might just put up the money and demand back a "profit". Today, we call those people capitalists. Another option was for the political apparatus to fund the needs of the workers, for the good and wellbeing of all. In other words, socialism. But, although it is political, keep in mind that the function comes from economics.

It quickly became apparent that socialism had 1) pooled resources; and 2) political power, and so it was susceptible to corruption. This is what you see in Russia today, but formerly it was Bolshevism: resources and power. (Put Marx aside, because that was a rather fantastical political theory that, like religion, could never come to fruition in your wildest dreams. There has never been a Marxist political apparatus except perhaps for a brief three months, in the Paris Commune in 1871.)

Socialism is solely an economic theory. Many charlatans claim to be socialist--because, as I say, it's a system that has resources and power--but they are mainly criminals looking for wealth and force. Third world dictators, mostly. It's no different from the mafia, taking over unions, and Las Vegas, or Donald Trump taking over urban real estate in metropolitan areas around the world. They are not socialists, but organized crime.

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:Load of Bollocks Wolfie, the only parts of the NHS that were discussed about being sold off were the ancillary services ,cleaning, food etc !

Actually, Wolf is spot on.  Socialism is an economic theory.  

phil wrote:Capitalism has gotten hundreds of millions out of poverty

No it hasn't. What has gotten hundreds of millions out of poverty is the abundance of resources. In this country, for example, the availability of agriculture, water, energy, and manufactures, has buoyed up the people and made a great demand for them.

Capitalism, on the other hand, has fared 100's of times better, such that the top 1% own the top 99% of the wealth. Trust me profits got paid first.

phil wrote:The only real socialist Goverments economically in history have murdered of well over a hundred million people due to their economic socialist plans

One of the best nations, making use of socialist economic systems, is Great Britain. If GB has murdered well over a hundred million people, the news hasn't yet reached here.

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:Capitalism has gotten hundreds of millions out of poverty

No it hasn't.  What has gotten hundreds of millions out of poverty is the abundance of resources.  In this country, for example, the availability of agriculture, water, energy, and manufactures, has buoyed up the people and made a great demand for them.

Capitalism, on the other hand, has fared 100's of times better, such that the top 1% own the top 99% of the wealth.  Trust me profits got paid first.

https://fee.org/articles/extreme-poverty-rates-plummet-under-capitalism/

1. The number of people living in extreme poverty worldwide declined by 80 percent from 1970 to 2006. People living on a dollar a day or less dramatically fell from 26.8 percent of the global population in 1970 to 5.4 percent in 2006 – an 80 percent decline. It is a truly remarkable achievement that doesn’t receive a lot of media coverage because it highlights the success of capitalism.

“It was globalization, free trade, the boom in international entrepreneurship,” American Enterprise Institute (AEI) president Arthur Brooks said in a 2012 speech. “In short, it was the free enterprise system, American style, which is our gift to the world.”

2. Poverty worldwide included 94 percent of the world’s population in 1820. In 2011, it was only 17 percent. What is even more incredible is that the global poverty rate was 53 percent in 1981, causing the decline from 53 percent to 17 percent to be “the most rapid reduction in poverty in world history.”

“Since the onset of industrialisation – and as a consequence of this, economic growth — the share of people living in poverty started decreasing and kept on falling ever since,” wrote Oxford University’s Martin Roeser, who compiled the aforementioned data.

Roeser’s chart illustrates this:



3. Globally, those in the lower and middle income brackets saw increases in pay of 40 percent from 1988 to 2008. According to the Adam Smith’s Institute’s Ben Southwood:4. The world is 120 times better off today than in 1800 as a result of capitalism. The Foundation for Economic Education’s (FEE) Steven Horwtiz, citing author Deidre McCloskey, noted that the 120 times figure comes from multiplying “the gains in consumption to the average human by the gain in life expectancy worldwide by 7 (for 7 billion as compared to 1 billion people).”

“The competitive market process has also made education, art, and culture available to more and more people,” wrote Horwitz. “Even the poorest of Americans, not to mention many of the global poor, have access through the Internet and TV to concerts, books, and works of art that were exclusively the province of the wealthy for centuries.”

Horwitz added capitalism has also resulted in people spending “a much smaller percentage of our lives working for pay” due to the increased value of labor and has produced higher life expectancy “by decades.”

5. Mortality rates for children under the age of five declined by 49 percent from 1990 to 2013. This is according to World Health Organization (WHO) data, a decline termed “faster than ever.” Capitalism results in lower child mortality rates by producing better access to medicine and standards of living.

In sum, the wealth and innovation spurred by capitalism has done more to help the poor than any government program ever could. Singal is simply wrong to suggest that “capitalism is not designed” to solve poverty.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/5-statistics-showing-how-capitalism-solves-poverty-aaron-bandler

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:The only real socialist Goverments economically in history have murdered of well over a hundred million people due to their economic socialist plans

One of the best nations, making use of socialist economic systems, is Great Britain.  If GB has murdered well over a hundred million people, the news hasn't yet reached here.

Jackanory

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/capitalist-economic-system/

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In our time, in our culture, yes.  Shame on us.  

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

Or...you are just ducking serious conversation. Neither you nor I were slaves, and nor have we ever been disenfranchised. In fact, this isn't even about us.

You are mouthing platitudes and bumper stickers...and you are quite repetitive at it. Are "self flagellation" and "ostrich parasitic syndrome" the only phrases you know? Has someone been coaching you? You don't seem to know anything other than those slogans.

Well, if you are not going to put any real thought into the subject, you don't deserve any response.

Third time quill has answered the same post of mine clearly he was ratteled when i showed up his idiocy around me being responsible for debts I never created.

I shall post this again, as he ran with his tail be tween his legs and never answered this but the same post he just previously posted on again:

Original Quill wrote:

So, you don't believe inheritance?  If you want to go that way, be prepared to give back all the assets your ancestors built up.  Or...be willing to pass on the debts as well as the assets.

My ancestors? On my paternal side, the Maltese, they were conquered, occupied by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Romans, Byzantian Greeks, Arabs, Normans, a religious Christian order, then the French, and finally the British. Then we have the Irish maternal side, who were for most of history under English occupation and rule.

Explain to me how being ethnically Maltese/Irish, how I have inherited such a debt from the non-existant assests of my ancestors?
Are you saying simple that because i was born to the Uk and have like every single other British citizen, no matter whether white, black, asian etc. That now I and every other British citizen owes a debt to ancestors of African slaves in the US?

Is this your position?

Or that because I am white or some warped claim of a white culture. Where it was a religiously based prejudiced culture that enabled the slaved trade. That I owe a debt to African slaves now long dead, that none of my family benefited from? Are you suggesting a racist view, that now all white people born to the future owe a debt, to a crime they never commited? You are basically holding a racist stance to people born white, no matter their nations part or even non part in the African slave trade?

What if some Black British people descend from African slave traders today, who enabled slavery by capturing other tribes to seel to the British. Do they also be paid a debt that they created?

You see Quill you actually argue the worst racism yourself. As I owe no debt, neither does the many people born to this nation, who were never part of the slave trade.

The fact you think my ancestors are responsible, when they were for the better part of over 2000 years occupied. Are now liable for some other nations crime and because I was born here, that makes me liable. Has to go down as just about the most utterly ridiculous fucked up wokeness stupidity, you have ever come out with

I dont call for repreations from the hardship of my ancestors, as the people who did this are long dead

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In our time, in our culture, yes.  Shame on us.  

And this is what is wrong with Quills mentality and views on this

This is self flagellation in the most extreme form

Using "us" as a coilletiv,e placing a guilt on people who committed no such crimes born today

You cannot find a better example of Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome

Didge, make a fool of yourself, it's not my problem. Repetition, jingos, baubles of persuasion, slogans, bumper stickers and rhymes. They are all mental trinkets...and you bring them out when you have nothing original to say.

4 times answering one post and countless times avoiding the one, that he knows made him look a complete idiot

Original Quill wrote:

So, you don't believe inheritance?  If you want to go that way, be prepared to give back all the assets your ancestors built up.  Or...be willing to pass on the debts as well as the assets.

My ancestors? On my paternal side, the Maltese, they were conquered, occupied by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Romans, Byzantian Greeks, Arabs, Normans, a religious Christian order, then the French, and finally the British. Then we have the Irish maternal side, who were for most of history under English occupation and rule.

Explain to me how being ethnically Maltese/Irish, how I have inherited such a debt from the non-existant assests of my ancestors?
Are you saying simple that because i was born to the Uk and have like every single other British citizen, no matter whether white, black, asian etc. That now I and every other British citizen owes a debt to ancestors of African slaves in the US?

Is this your position?

Or that because I am white or some warped claim of a white culture. Where it was a religiously based prejudiced culture that enabled the slaved trade. That I owe a debt to African slaves now long dead, that none of my family benefited from? Are you suggesting a racist view, that now all white people born to the future owe a debt, to a crime they never commited? You are basically holding a racist stance to people born white, no matter their nations part or even non part in the African slave trade?

What if some Black British people descend from African slave traders today, who enabled slavery by capturing other tribes to seel to the British. Do they also be paid a debt that they created?

You see Quill you actually argue the worst racism yourself. As I owe no debt, neither does the many people born to this nation, who were never part of the slave trade.

The fact you think my ancestors are responsible, when they were for the better part of over 2000 years occupied. Are now liable for some other nations crime and because I was born here, that makes me liable. Has to go down as just about the most utterly ridiculous fucked up wokeness stupidity, you have ever come out with

I dont call for repreations from the hardship of my ancestors, as the people who did this are long dead[/quote]

Fun fact -- there are more people enslaved today than there ever have been in the history of the world. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/slaves-time-human-history-article-1.3506975

If you think we should run the world as a triage -- tackle the most important issues first -- then surely freeing the 20 million-plus slaves who are currently alive should take priority over figuring out reparations.

And probably we should worry about climate change before any of that, since I don't know if anybody's heard this, but we're making the planet uninhabitable.