The Nihilism of the Joker | What's its Underlying Message?

It's rare that a film occupies my mind for days after watching it, but Joker certainly achieved as much. For me, it joins the ranks of American Beauty, Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Vanilla Sky, and my all-time favourite film, The Last Samurai. What got me the most, and what I hope I've successfully conveyed in the video, is that while nihilism tends to be something that people experience due to their own intellectual courage, it can also be something forced upon someone, as is the case with Arthur Fleck. Nietzsche, and many other nihilist authors, wrote of how the young nihilist, in a naive attempt to avert nihilism, tends to join groups to feel as if they're serving a greater purpose (doing the work of god, one might say), but Arthur was denied this, and so his nihilism erupted in, honestly, the only way I think it could. The film carries a big lesson: don't be a dick (or put more nicely, be kind to others, for you do not know their suffering).

Anyhow, what did you think to the film? And can you recommend to me any other amazing films that made you reflect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgAFqWo7Cis

phildidge wrote:

It's rare that a film occupies my mind for days after watching it, but Joker certainly achieved as much. For me, it joins the ranks of American Beauty, Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Vanilla Sky, and my all-time favourite film, The Last Samurai. What got me the most, and what I hope I've successfully conveyed in the video, is that while nihilism tends to be something that people experience due to their own intellectual courage, it can also be something forced upon someone, as is the case with Arthur Fleck. Nietzsche, and many other nihilist authors, wrote of how the young nihilist, in a naive attempt to avert nihilism, tends to join groups to feel as if they're serving a greater purpose (doing the work of god, one might say), but Arthur was denied this, and so his nihilism erupted in, honestly, the only way I think it could. The film carries a big lesson: don't be a dick (or put more nicely, be kind to others, for you do not know their suffering).

Anyhow, what did you think to the film? And can you recommend to me any other amazing films that made you reflect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgAFqWo7Cis

It's a staggeringly good film. Mind blowingly great, in fact. The media hysteria was overblown and a vain attempt at trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I agree with the underlying message, I made a post on Facebook immediately after saying pretty much the same (that the Joker, ultimately, shows the worst possible consequences of treating people like trash).

But aside from messages (and to hell with the nonsense ones from LW critics making it all about race and glorifying violence), the artistry of this film - from the disturbing soundtrack to the repeated shots of empty mail boxes and climb up the steps home, hammering Fleck's miserable existence - is remarkable. It is truly depressing but so powerful with it. (The only one single criticism I have, from a scene standpoint, was SPOILER............ when they flashed back to all the times he thought he had spent with his 'girlfriend'.... - it was an unnecessary addition to a point which I felt was clear enough).

If it gets snubbed by the Oscars - especially Phoenix's selfless and glorious performance - I'll not take them seriously again.

I kind of hope they don't make a sequel, I want this to stay mysterious and pure. It's arguably, imo, the best film of the decade.

Another film that made me reflect? The Last King of Scotland. It's an old one, but shows the danger of populist uprisings and the damaging effect of getting sucked in.

NOTE: Just done watching the video, very interesting. Seen a few of his videos before, always thoughtful and worth the time

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

It's rare that a film occupies my mind for days after watching it, but Joker certainly achieved as much. For me, it joins the ranks of American Beauty, Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Vanilla Sky, and my all-time favourite film, The Last Samurai. What got me the most, and what I hope I've successfully conveyed in the video, is that while nihilism tends to be something that people experience due to their own intellectual courage, it can also be something forced upon someone, as is the case with Arthur Fleck. Nietzsche, and many other nihilist authors, wrote of how the young nihilist, in a naive attempt to avert nihilism, tends to join groups to feel as if they're serving a greater purpose (doing the work of god, one might say), but Arthur was denied this, and so his nihilism erupted in, honestly, the only way I think it could. The film carries a big lesson: don't be a dick (or put more nicely, be kind to others, for you do not know their suffering).

Anyhow, what did you think to the film? And can you recommend to me any other amazing films that made you reflect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgAFqWo7Cis

It's a staggeringly good film. Mind blowingly great, in fact. The media hysteria was overblown and a vain attempt at trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I agree with the underlying message, I made a post on Facebook immediately after saying pretty much the same (that the Joker, ultimately, shows the worst possible consequences of treating people like trash).

But aside from messages (and to hell with the nonsense ones from LW critics making it all about race and glorifying violence), the artistry of this film - from the disturbing soundtrack to the repeated shots of empty mail boxes and climb up the steps home, hammering Fleck's miserable existence - is remarkable. It is truly depressing but so powerful with it. (The only one single criticism I have, from a scene standpoint, was SPOILER............ when they flashed back to all the times he thought he had spent with his 'girlfriend'.... - it was an unnecessary addition to a point which I felt was clear enough).

If it gets snubbed by the Oscars - especially Phoenix's selfless and glorious performance - I'll not take them seriously again.

I kind of hope they don't make a sequel, I want this to stay mysterious and pure. It's arguably, imo, the best film of the decade.

Another film that made me reflect? The Last King of Scotland. It's an old one, but shows the danger of populist uprisings and the damaging effect of getting sucked in.

Great post mate. Not seen the film yet so difficult for me to comment, but agree with you in how people are being so absurd and silly over this. From the people I know who have seen this, all like yourself give glowing priase to what is a great film and great perfomances

The last King of Scotland is an awesome film. I mean Forest was exceptional in the part of Idi Amin. Like you say its very scary how the populaism of an individual can bring about disaster to a society. This has happened so many times in history

Thankfully its only a minority on the left kicking up a stink because again they want to control who and what people see and understand. That is also scary to me, because it simple suffucates any discourse about anything.

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

It's rare that a film occupies my mind for days after watching it, but Joker certainly achieved as much. For me, it joins the ranks of American Beauty, Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Vanilla Sky, and my all-time favourite film, The Last Samurai. What got me the most, and what I hope I've successfully conveyed in the video, is that while nihilism tends to be something that people experience due to their own intellectual courage, it can also be something forced upon someone, as is the case with Arthur Fleck. Nietzsche, and many other nihilist authors, wrote of how the young nihilist, in a naive attempt to avert nihilism, tends to join groups to feel as if they're serving a greater purpose (doing the work of god, one might say), but Arthur was denied this, and so his nihilism erupted in, honestly, the only way I think it could. The film carries a big lesson: don't be a dick (or put more nicely, be kind to others, for you do not know their suffering).

Anyhow, what did you think to the film? And can you recommend to me any other amazing films that made you reflect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgAFqWo7Cis

It's a staggeringly good film. Mind blowingly great, in fact. The media hysteria was overblown and a vain attempt at trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I agree with the underlying message, I made a post on Facebook immediately after saying pretty much the same (that the Joker, ultimately, shows the worst possible consequences of treating people like trash).

But aside from messages (and to hell with the nonsense ones from LW critics making it all about race and glorifying violence), the artistry of this film - from the disturbing soundtrack to the repeated shots of empty mail boxes and climb up the steps home, hammering Fleck's miserable existence - is remarkable. It is truly depressing but so powerful with it. (The only one single criticism I have, from a scene standpoint, was SPOILER............ when they flashed back to all the times he thought he had spent with his 'girlfriend'.... - it was an unnecessary addition to a point which I felt was clear enough).

If it gets snubbed by the Oscars - especially Phoenix's selfless and glorious performance - I'll not take them seriously again.

I kind of hope they don't make a sequel, I want this to stay mysterious and pure. It's arguably, imo, the best film of the decade.

Another film that made me reflect? The Last King of Scotland. It's an old one, but shows the danger of populist uprisings and the damaging effect of getting sucked in.

Great post mate. Not seen the film yet so difficult for me to comment, but agree with you in how people are being so absurd and silly over this. From the people I know who have seen this, all like yourself give glowing priase to what is a great film and great perfomances

The last King of Scotland is an awesome film. I mean Forest was exceptional in the part of Idi Amin. Like you say its very scary how the populaism of an individual can bring about disaster to a society. This has happened so many times in history

Thankfully its only a minority on the left kicking up a stink because again they want to control who and what people see and understand. That is also scary to me, because it simple suffucates any discourse about anything.

I think the LW media actually want something to happen so they can say 'told you so'. Some reviews are hideously obsessed with race. But the good thing is the popularity of the film has smashed any notion that this kind of LW thought is popular or mainstream. The film is almost universally popular with all areas of society. The critics might want to check themselves next time

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Great post mate. Not seen the film yet so difficult for me to comment, but agree with you in how people are being so absurd and silly over this. From the people I know who have seen this, all like yourself give glowing priase to what is a great film and great perfomances

The last King of Scotland is an awesome film. I mean Forest was exceptional in the part of Idi Amin. Like you say its very scary how the populaism of an individual can bring about disaster to a society. This has happened so many times in history

Thankfully its only a minority on the left kicking up a stink because again they want to control who and what people see and understand. That is also scary to me, because it simple suffucates any discourse about anything.

I think the LW media actually want something to happen so they can say 'told you so'. Some reviews are hideously obsessed with race. But the good thing is the popularity of the film has smashed any notion that this kind of LW thought is popular or mainstream. The film is almost universally popular with all areas of society. The critics might want to check themselves next time

To be honest the left wing media have no doubt played a part in the popularity. As soon as the media lay claims to something as wrong. Its like placing candy in front of a child saying not to eat this. Its simple a carrot on a stick situation. Its going to even more make people go out and watch this. With like you say people actually really enjoying this and making those complaining and being over paranoid looking silly.

You are right though that those of the media championing such an idea will jump at the chance of any violent situation to claim, "told you so". Its simple absurd.

Cannot wait to see mate.

Have a good weekend.

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Great post mate. Not seen the film yet so difficult for me to comment, but agree with you in how people are being so absurd and silly over this. From the people I know who have seen this, all like yourself give glowing priase to what is a great film and great perfomances

The last King of Scotland is an awesome film. I mean Forest was exceptional in the part of Idi Amin. Like you say its very scary how the populaism of an individual can bring about disaster to a society. This has happened so many times in history

Thankfully its only a minority on the left kicking up a stink because again they want to control who and what people see and understand. That is also scary to me, because it simple suffucates any discourse about anything.

I think the LW media actually want something to happen so they can say 'told you so'. Some reviews are hideously obsessed with race. But the good thing is the popularity of the film has smashed any notion that this kind of LW thought is popular or mainstream. The film is almost universally popular with all areas of society. The critics might want to check themselves next time

To be honest the left wing media have no doubt played a part in the popularity. As soon as the media lay claims to something as wrong. Its like placing candy in front of a child saying not to eat this. Its simple a carrot on a stick situation. Its going to even more make people go out and watch this. With like you say people actually really enjoying this and making those complaining and being over paranoid looking silly.

You are right though that those of the media championing such an idea will jump at the chance of any violent situation to claim, "told you so". Its simple absurd.

Cannot wait to see mate.

Have a good weekend.

Totally agree on them causing its popularity - worked well for Warner Bros lol

Hope you can see it soon, enjoy

I haven't seen this

my eldest son went to see it a week or so ago and said it was brilliant.

gelico wrote:


I haven't seen this

my eldest son went to see it a week or so ago and said it was brilliant.

Recommend it, it really isn't a comic book film at all. More a look at how mental illness and a cruel society can lead to someone becoming twisted into something terroble.

They shouldn't need another Joker movie after this --  from what I've seen on a couple of reviews on YouTube, this a great stand-alone 'out on the fringe'/'outlier' movie, which simply doesn't need a sequel.

Any rate, they already have trailers out for "Suicide Squad 2", and Harley Quinn could have her own movie next year --  so DC Comics should have that side covered for a while, while waiting for the next Justice League installments (with Robert Pattinson as the next Batman ?).

Actually I got to the point where I wanted to see more of Affleck as Batman, and I never thought I'd say that.

They hinted at a really dark turn of events in his life in his last two appearances, what with Wayne Mansion in ruins and Batman turned into a killer -- I hope that's not abandoned. Maybe the younger actor will show that story in a flashback or some shit.

I'd heard The Joker was brilliant, but now I've got to see it. One of the best fictional characters ever, imo.

I always found the Joker quite hot...

Ben Reilly wrote:Actually I got to the point where I wanted to see more of Affleck as Batman, and I never thought I'd say that.

They hinted at a really dark turn of events in his life in his last two appearances, what with Wayne Mansion in ruins and Batman turned into a killer -- I hope that's not abandoned. Maybe the younger actor will show that story in a flashback or some shit.

I'd heard The Joker was brilliant, but now I've got to see it. One of the best fictional characters ever, imo.

Sadly Affleck is out for good but he was decent - the only shining light in the otherwide disastrous DCU films.

A Harley Quinn film is due next year, but without Joker (Leto's sucked anyway) but it follows the lousy Suicide Squad.

Phoenix's Joker isn't part of the DCU.

Eilzel wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Actually I got to the point where I wanted to see more of Affleck as Batman, and I never thought I'd say that.

They hinted at a really dark turn of events in his life in his last two appearances, what with Wayne Mansion in ruins and Batman turned into a killer -- I hope that's not abandoned. Maybe the younger actor will show that story in a flashback or some shit.

I'd heard The Joker was brilliant, but now I've got to see it. One of the best fictional characters ever, imo.

Sadly Affleck is out for good but he was decent - the only shining light in the otherwide disastrous DCU films.

A Harley Quinn film is due next year, but without Joker (Leto's sucked anyway) but it follows the lousy Suicide Squad.

Phoenix's Joker isn't part of the DCU.

You don't like Wonder Woman????

Ben Reilly wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Actually I got to the point where I wanted to see more of Affleck as Batman, and I never thought I'd say that.

They hinted at a really dark turn of events in his life in his last two appearances, what with Wayne Mansion in ruins and Batman turned into a killer -- I hope that's not abandoned. Maybe the younger actor will show that story in a flashback or some shit.

I'd heard The Joker was brilliant, but now I've got to see it. One of the best fictional characters ever, imo.

Sadly Affleck is out for good but he was decent - the only shining light in the otherwide disastrous DCU films.

A Harley Quinn film is due next year, but without Joker (Leto's sucked anyway) but it follows the lousy Suicide Squad.

Phoenix's Joker isn't part of the DCU.

You don't like Wonder Woman????

Unfair on my part. Batman was the best thing in BM vs SM and Justice League. Haven't seen Wonder Woman or Aquaman but hear those two are good. I gave up after the failure of the other two tbf and lost hope even with BM vs SM.

I am, however, super excited about the new Robert Pattinson Batman movie in 2021.

Referring back to a couple of those superhero/comic sites on YouTube :

There have been "industry rumours" that, following the dissappointments of 'Superman vs Batman' and 'Justice League' ,  DC is looking to giving more screen time to the Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Flash characters in the next JL movie, and less to Superman and Batman..

Wonder Woman and Aquaman have been the most successful DC Comics movies in recent years, while the Flash (streaming) TV show on Netflix has run for 6 seasons so far, and 'Arrow' had a good run as well.

Then there's the likes of Green Lantern, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, the Atom, and j'onn j'onzz- the Martian Manhunter --  who had appeared in the JL comics as well..  Add in Cyborg from the first JL movie, and you easily have a dozen characters for the future.