'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

Hundreds of young transgender people are seeking help to return to their original sex, a woman who is setting up a charity has told Sky News.

Charlie Evans, 28, was born female but identified as male for nearly 10 years before detransitioning.

The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision.

There is currently no data to reflect the number who may be unhappy in their new gender or who may opt to detransition to their biological sex.

Charlie detransitioned and went public with her story last year - and said she was stunned by the number of people she discovered in a similar position.

"I'm in communication with 19 and 20-year-olds who have had full gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't, and their dysphoria hasn't been relieved, they don't feel better for it," she says.


https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740

phildidge wrote:Hundreds of young transgender people are seeking help to return to their original sex, a woman who is setting up a charity has told Sky News.

Charlie Evans, 28, was born female but identified as male for nearly 10 years before detransitioning.

The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision.

There is currently no data to reflect the number who may be unhappy in their new gender or who may opt to detransition to their biological sex.

Charlie detransitioned and went public with her story last year - and said she was stunned by the number of people she discovered in a similar position.

"I'm in communication with 19 and 20-year-olds who have had full gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't, and their dysphoria hasn't been relieved, they don't feel better for it," she says.


https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740

who could have seen that one coming, eh didge?

FFS!

gelico wrote:

phildidge wrote:Hundreds of young transgender people are seeking help to return to their original sex, a woman who is setting up a charity has told Sky News.

Charlie Evans, 28, was born female but identified as male for nearly 10 years before detransitioning.

The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision.

There is currently no data to reflect the number who may be unhappy in their new gender or who may opt to detransition to their biological sex.

Charlie detransitioned and went public with her story last year - and said she was stunned by the number of people she discovered in a similar position.

"I'm in communication with 19 and 20-year-olds who have had full gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't, and their dysphoria hasn't been relieved, they don't feel better for it," she says.


https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740

who could have seen that one coming, eh didge?

FFS!

Indeed Gelico and to me the likes of Mermaids should be prosecuted. For misleading so many confused children. This charity wants to have the age lowered for puberty blockers.
I forsee this only getting worse

Wow, hundreds.

I’d need to know what percentage the “hundreds” are in the overall total numbers.

Ben Reilly wrote:Wow, hundreds.

You say wow, when they should have never been placede down this path and many have had surgery

Just about the most ignoorant and stupidest thing you have said

What this and then say wow, I fucking dare you

A certain number of people are going to regret any decision they make. I really doubt that people are going on social media and forums, condemning lefties and PC, etc., because of the people who regret changing jobs.

I want to know what percentage of all trans people these hundreds represent. And honestly, if they were too stupid to think it through, I don't feel sorry for them.

In the meantime, there are no larger conclusions to be drawn from the fact that a few hundred people regret their surgeries.

Ben Reilly wrote:A certain number of people are going to regret any decision they make. I really doubt that people are going on social media and forums, condemning lefties and PC, etc., because of the people who regret changing jobs.

I want to know what percentage of all trans people these hundreds represent. And honestly, if they were too stupid to think it through, I don't feel sorry for them.

In the meantime, there are no larger conclusions to be drawn from the fact that a few hundred people regret their surgeries.

Which means the methodology of gender affirming is cleraly flawed and leading to mistakes

Which is simple mnot acceptable

Being the fact before this type of care, the vast majority of kids grew out of Gender dysphora. Around 60-80% which all studies show and that now. We know when kids are placed on puberty blockers, there is now the popposite and they go onto hormones and later surgery. Where less than 1% desist omn such gender affirming treatment. Which is obvious because such hormones effects the brain and mentality of those taking such treatments. Let alone the unknown health risks of these treatments. Is basically an experimentation on children.

How about you actually look into this further and how its clear there is a social contaigent going on. Where vastly high numbers of teen women, who are actually gay are being convinced they are transgender. hence social media is clearly playing a part and its called Rapid gender dysphoria, where they had no history before.

Nothing worse than as ususl Ben pipes in with a complete ignorance to what is actually going on

Ex-NHS staff fear that homophobia is driving a surge in ‘transgender’ young people

Inside the clinic rooms of the Tavistock, the private heartache of a new generation of “transgender” youngsters is being laid bare. There used to be about 50 referrals a year, mainly males with a history of gender issues.

Now there are thousands of young females reporting a sudden gender crisis for the first time. Many are convinced that transition — and the powerful drugs that make it happen — will be the solution to their problems.

Until now the specialists struggling to keep up with caseloads have stayed silent, but alarm over the number of adolescents being prescribed body-altering drugs, has prompted five former clinicians to speak out for the first time.

All five have resigned from the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) in the past three years as a matter of conscience.

“This experimental treatment is being done not only on children, but very vulnerable children, who have experienced mental health difficulties, abuse, family trauma, but sometimes those [other factors] just get whitewashed,” one female clinician said. “If someone was suggesting plastic surgery or any other permanent change we’d be saying, hang on a minute.”


The clinicians have warned that complex histories and adolescent confusion over possible homosexuality are being ignored in the rush to accept and celebrate every young person’s new transgender identity.

Clinical psychologists carry out each initial assessment at the Tavistock. They are the gatekeepers who decide whether to refer transgender youngsters to the endocrine clinic for the next stage of treatment. Therapists once had months to work through underlying issues before making decisions on medical intervention, but the clinicians claim that young people are now routinely referred for hormone therapy after as few as three hour-long sessions.

They believe that physically healthy children are being medicated in response to pressure from transgender lobby groups and parental anxieties.

So many potentially gay children were being sent down the pathway to change gender, two of the clinicians said there was a dark joke among staff that “there would be no gay people left”.

“It feels like conversion therapy for gay children,” one male clinician said. “I frequently had cases where people started identifying as trans after months of horrendous bullying for being gay,” he told The Times.

“Young lesbians considered at the bottom of the heap suddenly found they were really popular when they said they were trans.”

Another female clinician said: “We heard a lot of homophobia which we felt nobody was challenging. A lot of the girls would come in and say, ‘I’m not a lesbian. I fell in love with my best girl friend but then I went online and realised I’m not a lesbian, I’m a boy. Phew.’”

The specialists expressed concern at how little confusion over sexuality was explored when a young person requested treatment to change their body.

“I would ask who they wanted to have relationships with, but I was told by senior management that gender is completely separate to sex,” a third female clinician said. “I couldn’t get on board with that, because it isn’t. Some people were transitioning their gender to match their sexuality.”

The service said it was “a welcoming place for people from all sections of the LGBT community”, adding that it had made exploration of sexuality a “more explicit” part of the assessment in response to staff concerns.

Nevertheless, the clinician said that her unease grew after meeting an adult woman whose transition to become a man involved having a double mastectomy. She had since changed her mind.

“What can we do? We can’t reverse that. Do we suggest fake breasts?” she said. “We have such a duty of care to these confused young adolescents, but I think we are failing them.”

The clinic rejected the claims. “We always place a young person’s wellbeing at the centre of our work,” it said. “GIDS staff are engaged daily in thinking about the serious ethical dimensions of our practice. The diversity and complexity of individual cases will always be respected.”

Several clinicians suspected that some of the “transgender” adolescents were reacting to homophobia at home.

“For some families, it was easier to say, this is a medical problem, ‘here’s my child, please fix them!’ than dealing with a young, gay kid,” the third female clinician said. At the service’s “family days”, a parent was allegedly heard saying that they did not want their child to have gay friends because they “didn’t want them mixed up in that hedonistic lifestyle”. “It is converting people into heterosexuals,” one of the clinicians said. “We had so many families who would talk about not wanting their daughters to be lesbian.” Young people “repeatedly” confided their own “disgust” that they may be gay, according to the clinician.

In other cases, she felt young people had concluded they were trans because they didn’t fit traditional gender roles.

“Children’s bodies are being damaged in order to treat societal issues,” she warned. She recalled a case of a 13-year-old child “whose parents were really pressurising us for puberty blockers”. When the clinician refused to refer him, she claims one of the parents, a lawyer, wrote threatening legal letters to the service. The child was eventually referred for blockers.

She would have nightmares about her years at the Tavistock. “I would talk about it as an ‘atrocity’. I know that sounds quite strong, but it felt as if we were part of something that people would look back on in the future, and ask, what were we thinking? In the future I think there will be lots and lots of de-transitioners who feel their bodies were mutilated as young people and who will ask, why did you let me do this? It is very disturbing.”

Studies show that the vast majority of youngsters who begin puberty blockers go on to have irreversible hormone treatment at 16. Some go on to have gender reassignment surgery as adults.

All five clinicians expressed concern over how little young people and their families were being told about the impact of hormone treatment on fertility and sexual function as adults. One claimed young people were unable to give “informed consent” because it was regarded as taboo to discuss the impact of medical intervention on later sexual function in such a young cohort.

The clinic said there were no “taboo” subjects in its work, and that it did not “recognise this allegation as reflecting what happens in the service”. It rejected allegations of conversion therapy and insisted that youngsters were being properly advised on the risks of and about what is unknown about medical intervention. Time and care was taken at every stage to ensure that individuals grasped the potential consequences of their choices, it said, adding that the service had become “increasingly aware” of the need to discuss the impact of treatment on future sexual function.

The GIDS’s own internal review identified procedures around consent as an area of concern. It has recommended that written consent should be obtained before referral for blockers.

Another clinician described how youngsters entered his room enthusing about Alex Bertie, a transgender YouTuber, and My Life: I Am Leo, a documentary about a transgender teen broadcast in a teatime slot on CBBC.

“These are very simplified stories about how easy it would be to transition into being trans. . . that transition is a solution to feeling shit. That is very appealing to lots of teenagers,” the first male clinician said. I felt for the last two years what kept me in the job was the sense there was a huge number of children in danger and I was there to protect them from the service, from the inside.”

One female clinician estimates that she referred about 50 young people for puberty blockers. She now believes she referred too many. Their outcomes remain unclear. “When you start them on puberty blockers, you’re putting them on a pathway that could lead to sexual dysfunction problems and, for the younger kids, will definitely make them infertile. In what other specialism would physical intervention that leads to permanent change to the body be the first line of treatment for a vulnerable child? Activists will tell you it’s unethical not to intervene. But we know that not everyone with gender dysphoria will go on to identify as trans for the rest of their lives.”

One case has haunted her. “All the pushing was coming from the father to put the kid on puberty blockers. Thinking back on it now, I fear that the father was a paedophile and the child was being abused.” There is no suggestion the service knowingly ignored the case, and the outcome is unknown.

The clinic, which is run by the Tavistock and Portman Foundation Trust and whose director is Polly Carmichael, says it is tracking the progress of 44 young people who began puberty blockers in 2011, and that all available evidence is discussed with families. “This is a rapidly developing field and psychosocial and medical professionals are working hard to ensure that we respond to emerging evidence in an appropriate and considered way,” a spokesman said. The growing body of international evidence showed that “thus far, there is little reported evidence of harm,” he added.

“The service undertakes careful assessments over time and continues to see young people whether or not they attend the endocrine clinic following this assessment,” the spokesman said.

The clinic said it was aware of concerns and tensions between different perspectives raised by staff and “clinicians have a duty of care to raise safeguarding concerns”, adding that there were “safe spaces” and structures in place for staff to discuss anything that worried them. It would not comment on specific cases but stressed that a young person’s motivations and choices were discussed at each step.

What began in 1989 as a specialist clinic for gender issues is now under intense scrutiny. A report by David Bell, a former governor at the trust, revealed ethical concerns over “woefully inadequate care”. Staff were furious with the GIDS executive’s response to the report, which stated that its own review found no safeguarding concerns.

The whole service should have been halted when the number of “transgender” cases first exploded, one of the clinicians said. “That’s the point we should have stopped because we didn’t know what we were doing. Are we a service for kids with gender dysphoria, a medical disorder? Or are we a service for ‘transgender kids’?”

A GIDS spokesman said: “We are aware of tensions between different perspectives. These differences are inevitable in such complex work.”

One clinician said it was understandable if her former employer was defensive, saying: “If they are getting it wrong, you have to ask, are they making kids infertile by mistake? Because if they are to truly acknowledge [our concerns], then they will have to ask themselves, what the f*** have we done to thousands of children?”

Gires, GI and Mermaids all denied they viewed transition as a cure-all or that they exerted any undue pressure. Susie Green of Mermaids said the charity “does not encourage parents to demand any particular treatment.” Gendered Intelligence said the allegations against it were “unfounded”. Bernard Reed, founder of Gires, said: “In medical literature . . . failure to provide timely treatment is described as ‘psychological torture’. As far as we are aware, GIDS has adequate safeguards against irreversible treatments being given inappropriately.”


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

Vastly high, as in a few hundred people.

Have you counted them all Ben?

Ben Reilly wrote:Vastly high, as in a few hundred people.

Watch the video I posted that is a documentry from Holand

It shows many Transgender people fall off the radar
We also know that after transition many Trans people are sucidal and the suicide rates are high
This shows that the treatment is clearly not working for a high number of trans people
It shows studies never follow up on those who are not happy with the treatment and in this experts have followed up and there is many that are unhappy.
Its clear those performing the treatment arte skewing the stats, because its in their interest to claim it works.
This is a global scandal and many kids are being influced to believe they are trans.
They come to know exactly what to say to psychologists who treat gender dysphoria. In order to get onto treatments. They get advice through social media and Trans lobby groups. Like i say, many gay children are being wrongly convinced they are trans when they are gay. Simple for either being Tom boys or feminate bog

Yes there is no doubt the treatment works for some people, but it many cases its not working for others
And your really ignorant view npot to feel sorry for people, who in many of these cases do have gender dysphoria or have been dignosed with this. Is failimg to see they are being pushed onto a path of this treatment

Like i say, do some research before opening your gob ben because you are fucking cluess on this

What percentage of all trans people who have surgery later come to regret it?

Ben Reilly wrote:What percentage of all trans people who have surgery later come to regret it?

Watch the video

Twat

Ben Reilly wrote:A certain number of people are going to regret any decision they make. I really doubt that people are going on social media and forums, condemning lefties and PC, etc., because of the people who regret changing jobs.

I want to know what percentage of all trans people these hundreds represent. And honestly, if they were too stupid to think it through, I don't feel sorry for them.

In the meantime, there are no larger conclusions to be drawn from the fact that a few hundred people regret their surgeries.

If they are young people, who have not been completely informed of the life altering decision they are about to undertake, that's sorta shitty on those doing it though. Especially if they have an agenda. I wonder what sort of pre surgery counseling they go through?

This isn't just your girlfriends name tattooed on your arm.

Oh and the main person in the video has been cleared for euphanasia by his psychiatrist. Due to having this life changing surgery and is so unhappy and Bens has the fucking balls to say its their own fault.

Use some fucking empathic intelligence for once and understand. That is and starting to become a major issue. The fact that there is in Serbia a clinic that does reverse surgery for those who regret and he has over a hundred patients. Might tell you there is clearly a problem. Nobody is even sure he is able to successfulkly reverse this, which biologically he cannot. It will be superficial

Being as this is life alterating surgery on people. Who again are being led to believe they are trapped in the wrong body. It is showing that this does not help everyone with gender dysphoria and is making that worse.

The medthology around diagnosing gender dysphoria needs a rethink and fast, because it does not matter the percentage of people regretting. Simple one is bad enough but the fact the numbers go into hundreds and if not more. Is appalling and a travesty.

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:What percentage of all trans people who have surgery later come to regret it?

Watch the video

Twat

Is the answer to my question in the video?

"Practice two things in your dealings with disease: either help or do not harm the patient"

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Watch the video

Twat

Is the answer to my question in the video?

For Holland yes

Oh and the main person in the video has been cleared for euphanasia by his psychiatrist. Due to having this life changing surgery and is so unhappy and Bens has the fucking balls to say its their own fault.

Use some fucking empathic intelligence for once and understand. That is and starting to become a major issue. The fact that there is in Serbia a clinic that does reverse surgery for those who regret and he has over a hundred patients. Might tell you there is clearly a problem. Nobody is even sure he is able to successfulkly reverse this, which biologically he cannot. It will be superficial

Being as this is life alterating surgery on people. Who again are being led to believe they are trapped in the wrong body. It is showing that this does not help everyone with gender dysphoria and is making that worse.

The medthology around diagnosing gender dysphoria needs a rethink and fast, because it does not matter the percentage of people regretting. Simple one is bad enough but the fact the numbers go into hundreds and if not more. Is appalling and a travesty.

And this is why more and more I have come to view the left as inherantly stupid and Ben is a prime example of this

All he cares about is numbers here. Not the fact there is numbers of people that have come to regret. He seems to want to make a plus or minus argument to say whether more have been happy or not and fuck the rest who do regret.

This is why more and more people who are centrists like me, come to the the PC left is compolete an utter imbicilles. They are happy to experiment on children no matter the cost to promote their warped forms of progression.

They dont care that many gay kids are being converted to be straight through such therapy. Or the fact no kid can no or understand what sex they are at least before the age of 10. Nobody should be medicated until they are of adult age and have gone throigh puberty naturally. As this is the trigger which helps many with gender dysphoria desist. But this is not being allowed to happen with more and more kids being placed on puberty blockers and hormones.

In time this will come out as a global tragedy. Where many peoples lives will have been ruined all due to the lefty OC experimentation of children. Through an appalling medical policy that affirms the gender of what a child tells the doctor. Maybe anyone else can tell me a condition wherew the patient diagnoses themselves and those medically confirm this?

What a fucking joke

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Watch the video

Twat

Is the answer to my question in the video?

For Holland yes

Have you watched the video?

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

For Holland yes

Have you watched the video?

Many times

Who's leading these people to believe they're in the wrong body -- are people from these clinics going out and trying to persuade people of that, or are people coming to them and saying they feel trapped in the wrong body?

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

For Holland yes

Have you watched the video?

Many times

So would you tell me what the video says is the answer to my question?

Ben Reilly wrote:Who's leading these people to believe they're in the wrong body -- are people from these clinics going out and trying to persuade people of that, or are people coming to them and saying they feel trapped in the wrong body?

So you never watched the video

Seriously fuck off, you ignorant twat

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Many times

So would you tell me what the video says is the answer to my question?

No because you being so ignorant here need to watch it more than most

Stop being a twat and learn to educate yourself

Oh and for the record, if you had watched the video. It shows the stats are being skewed on claiming success rates for transitioning. Where many fall off the radar. Many of the experts know many that have come to regret. One did a survery and found 50% suffdered from underlining mental health problems that needed attention.

So ben, this is why you fuck me off no end. We have evidence off hundreds in the UK. A quick search on google shows many vides of people that regret and a documentry showing that the number could be staggering higher and all you seem to want to know is a number. Ill concerned that there is plenty that do regret.

This is why you can simple fuck off

Teachers have been told in a training session that some children as young as 12 who question their gender identity should be offered hormones to block puberty.

In a meeting with 20 teachers and pastoral staff at Newman University in Birmingham last December, a trainer for the transgender lobby group Mermaids said giving puberty blockers to gender-dysphoric children gave them “immense relief” and was “completely reversible”.

The trainer, recorded by an audience member, said: “Puberty blocker medication doesn’t make any changes, so [is] completely reversible. What it does is put a pause button on the pituitary gland and freezes puberty where it is. Not growth, just puberty. Take the blockers away and biological puberty will recommence.” She added that using blockers “does provide immense relief from the dysphoria” and argued that arrested development meant less need for physical intervention later “if they decide to go down that path”.

This weekend the advice was attacked as “misleading and potentially dangerous” by an Oxford academic. The session is believed to be a blueprint for training by the group in schools nationally.

Michael Biggs, associate professor in sociology at St Cross College, Oxford, says the guidance could push children towards medical intervention. He cites research which found that most children prescribed blockers at a young age progressed to taking cross-sex hormones and surgery, which damage fertility.


Biggs says he has unpublished evidence that after a year on blockers “children experienced increased psychological problems, including self harm. Mermaids is not giving pupils a choice that they may just be gay or lesbian. Instead, it is diverted down a drastic path that ultimately ends in surgery. To be propagating such information to schools is disturbing.”

Michael Conroy, who taped the footage and has worked in pastoral support in schools for 15 years, said he believed Mermaids was encouraging young people to think that they were “born in the wrong body . . . It’s putting children at risk.”

Mermaids said: “The information in our sessions is based on a wealth of international scientific study and 25 years of experience in this field. Since this training session in 2018, we have been funded by the Department for Education in a schools training programme overseen by the Government Equalities Office.”

Last week a group of parents announced a lobbying organisation aimed at the NHS. One of them, a mother, told a public meeting that the gender reassignment of young people with autism or psychological problems was “state-sponsored sterilisation of the mentally disabled”. Members of the group attended a governors’ council of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, which includes the Gender Identity Development Clinic for trans children. The mother said her 20-year-old, who identifies as a gay trans man and lives with other young people awaiting reassignment surgery, had ADHD with autistic traits diagnosed at the age of six.

She said her child fitted the description of “rapid onset gender dysphoria”, whereby youngsters declare, often in clusters, that they are trans after exposure with their peers to suggestions they are “trapped in the wrong body”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-lobby-group-mermaids-urges-puberty-blockers-for-12-year-olds-b96zqbh2k

Anyway one last point and I wont bother speaking anymore to Ben on this. Espically when he is too lazy to do any research. The reality is such transition treatment is actually creating gender dysphoria in people. Hence people are being led down a path and being encouraged again by Trans lobbies to believe they are trans and to change. This is dangereous. Espically with the new problem of rapid gender dysphoria. If its being socially driven. Where they learn what to say to get on treatment and that treament affirms this for them. What happens is people then tranisiton and end up with gender dysphoria, because they have changed their bodies.

Hence the danger of this madness new method in treatment. Its flawed being there is no real way to confirm someone has gender dysphoria.

The methods should go back to when it was years of long consultation and allowing kids to go through puberty, when espically the majority grow out of. Noew kids who simple are feminate boys and being made to believe they have gender dysphoria when they are simple gay and girls who are Tom boys the same. Its socially conditioning children and it has to stop. This is some of the worst experimentation on children,. When only as adults, when their brains have suffoicently developed. Should then people decide to go through treatment. Not before.

Anyway for Ben to say its their own fault they regret when people are litterally taking their own lives, shows how fucking insesnsitive Ben is and has pissed me right off. r the fact that this is such life changing treatement. Shows he is not caring about the consequences here His only concern is for those who it works. Which is completely an irresponsible stance to take

Night

Didge, why are you getting abusive about this? I am just saying that I have a different point of view than you do. Is that a good reason to be insulting?

Ben Reilly wrote:And honestly, if they were too stupid to think it through, I don't feel sorry for them.

Ben wants to know why I have rightly called him an idiot


Anyway one last point and I wont bother speaking anymore to Ben on this. Espically when he is too lazy to do any research. The reality is such transition treatment is actually creating gender dysphoria in people. Hence people are being led down a path and being encouraged again by Trans lobbies to believe they are trans and to change. This is dangereous. Espically with the new problem of rapid gender dysphoria. If its being socially driven. Where they learn what to say to get on treatment and that treament affirms this for them. What happens is people then tranisiton and end up with gender dysphoria, because they have changed their bodies.

Hence the danger of this madness new method in treatment. Its flawed being there is no real way to confirm someone has gender dysphoria.

The methods should go back to when it was years of long consultation and allowing kids to go through puberty, when espically the majority grow out of. Noew kids who simple are feminate boys and being made to believe they have gender dysphoria when they are simple gay and girls who are Tom boys the same. Its socially conditioning children and it has to stop. This is some of the worst experimentation on children,. When only as adults, when their brains have suffoicently developed. Should then people decide to go through treatment. Not before.

Anyway for Ben to say its their own fault they regret when people are litterally taking their own lives, shows how fucking insesnsitive Ben is and has pissed me right off. r the fact that this is such life changing treatement. Shows he is not caring about the consequences here His only concern is for those who it works. Which is completely an irresponsible stance to take

Night

Ben Reilly wrote:A certain number of people are going to regret any decision they make. I really doubt that people are going on social media and forums, condemning lefties and PC, etc., because of the people who regret changing jobs.

you can't seriously compare changing jobs with changing your gender FFS!


I want to know what percentage of all trans people these hundreds represent. And honestly, if they were too stupid to think it through, I don't feel sorry for them.


I can't believe you just said that.   check out the bits in bold eh


Michael Biggs, associate professor in sociology at St Cross College, Oxford, says the guidance could push children towards medical intervention. He cites research which found that most children prescribed blockers at a young age progressed to taking cross-sex hormones and surgery, which damage fertility.


Biggs says he has unpublished evidence that after a year on blockers “children experienced increased psychological problems, including self harm. Mermaids is not giving pupils a choice that they may just be gay or lesbian. Instead, it is diverted down a drastic path that ultimately ends in surgery. To be propagating such information to schools is disturbing.”

I think you'll find that children, as a rule, tend NOT to think things through.

they are confused and hormonal and anxsty and desperately trying to 'fit in'

as for children as young as 12 being exposed to this and offered treatment

fuck off is what i say






In the meantime, there are no larger conclusions to be drawn from the fact that a few hundred people regret their surgeries.

yeah, well, imo just one is one too many

honestly, ben your post was a fucking heap of tosh, that's what

Ben Reilly wrote:What percentage of all trans people who have surgery later come to regret it?

what does the percentage matter

it's a damn big deal

it's not like getting dodgy haircut that you hate cos it'll grow out. it's not like buying an outfit and then discovering you look like a pig in it.

you are completely changing what you are biologically.

gelico wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:What percentage of all trans people who have surgery later come to regret it?

what does the percentage matter

it's a damn big deal

it's not like getting dodgy haircut that you hate cos it'll grow out. it's not like buying an outfit and then discovering you look like a pig in it.

you are completely changing what you are biologically.

You miss the point completely. All the evidence in the OP is anecdotal, yet the question is how significant is it? Significance is about percentages.

Don't restate your own outrage. We already know about that. Tell us who else is outraged and how many are there?

Regardless of numbers, I do agree with the view that children (as in, ANYONE under the age of 18) should NOT be being given any medical help whatsoever in altering their gender.

At that age, it is almost universally accept that a person is not old/mature enough to making major life changing decisions. And there is nothing harder to alter than this.

They can wear clothes and behave however they like to 'be' the gender they believe they are - no problem. And for me that means also using the bathroom of the gender they identify as. But below 18, they should take that reassignment no further. After 18 they are free to do what they please.

This suits both those who genuinely are trans, and also avoids the unimaginable catastrophe (that is what I can imagine it being) of having partially altered your gender through medical help - only to realise it was only a phase after all.

Eilzel wrote:Regardless of numbers, I do agree with the view that children (as in, ANYONE under the age of 18) should NOT be being given any medical help whatsoever in altering their gender.

At that age, it is almost universally accept that a person is not old/mature enough to making major life changing decisions. And there is nothing harder to alter than this.

They can wear clothes and behave however they like to 'be' the gender they believe they are - no problem. And for me that means also using the bathroom of the gender they identify as. But below 18, they should take that reassignment no further. After 18 they are free to do what they please.

This suits both those who genuinely are trans, and also avoids the unimaginable catastrophe (that is what I can imagine it being) of having partially altered your gender through medical help - only to realise it was only a phase after all.

Off-point, but that's the same way I feel about circumcision. Nothing before adulthood.

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Regardless of numbers, I do agree with the view that children (as in, ANYONE under the age of 18) should NOT be being given any medical help whatsoever in altering their gender.

At that age, it is almost universally accept that a person is not old/mature enough to making major life changing decisions. And there is nothing harder to alter than this.

They can wear clothes and behave however they like to 'be' the gender they believe they are - no problem. And for me that means also using the bathroom of the gender they identify as. But below 18, they should take that reassignment no further. After 18 they are free to do what they please.

This suits both those who genuinely are trans, and also avoids the unimaginable catastrophe (that is what I can imagine it being) of having partially altered your gender through medical help - only to realise it was only a phase after all.

Off-point, but that's the same way I feel about circumcision.  Nothing before adulthood.

It isn't off point. If the problem is people under the age of 18 having gender reassignment, and then trying to reverse that when older, then the problem is clearly with allowing whatever therapy or surgery is done earlier. The OP mentions 19-20 year old who have had full reassignment surgery - that should not be possible. 13-year-olds certainly should not be having puberty blockers, this is abhorrent.

+1Les !

Eilzel wrote:Regardless of numbers, I do agree with the view that children (as in, ANYONE under the age of 18) should NOT be being given any medical help whatsoever in altering their gender.

At that age, it is almost universally accept that a person is not old/mature enough to making major life changing decisions. And there is nothing harder to alter than this.

They can wear clothes and behave however they like to 'be' the gender they believe they are - no problem. And for me that means also using the bathroom of the gender they identify as. But below 18, they should take that reassignment no further. After 18 they are free to do what they please.

This suits both those who genuinely are trans, and also avoids the unimaginable catastrophe (that is what I can imagine it being) of having partially altered your gender through medical help - only to realise it was only a phase after all.

That's why they are called minors. They are protected from making bad decisions that can cause them problems that may last a lifetime.

Even after that, there needs to be a great deal of counseling that includes scenarios where people realized they made a mistake. Maybe that already happens, I don't know.

Eilzel wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Off-point, but that's the same way I feel about circumcision.  Nothing before adulthood.

It isn't off point. If the problem is people under the age of 18 having gender reassignment, and then trying to reverse that when older, then the problem is clearly with allowing whatever therapy or surgery is done earlier. The OP mentions 19-20 year old who have had full reassignment surgery - that should not be possible. 13-year-olds certainly should not be having puberty blockers, this is abhorrent.

Don't misapprehend me. I am admitting my example was off-point, not your argument.  I am, in fact, agreeing with you.

I think any decision that alters one's body before age of consent, is a violation of one's rights to life, liberty and personal choice.  The only exception would be medical procedures to save one's life or preserve a vital function.

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Off-point, but that's the same way I feel about circumcision.  Nothing before adulthood.

It isn't off point. If the problem is people under the age of 18 having gender reassignment, and then trying to reverse that when older, then the problem is clearly with allowing whatever therapy or surgery is done earlier. The OP mentions 19-20 year old who have had full reassignment surgery - that should not be possible. 13-year-olds certainly should not be having puberty blockers, this is abhorrent.

Don't misapprehend me.  I am admitting my example was off-point, not your argument.  I am, in fact, agreeing with you.

I think any decision that alters one's body before age of consent, is a violation of one's rights to life, liberty and personal choice.  The only exception would be medical procedures to save one's life or preserve a vital function.

My misunderstanding, sorry bout that. Totally agree

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/

5.5 thousand members

My first transgender patient was a teenager who said although he was born female, he’d protested his gender from the time he could talk. He told a story of being asked, “Well, if you are a boy, where is your penis?” and he pointed to his umbilicus (which was an “outie”). OK, no problem, we have a gender clinic I can refer you to.

When he came back and asked for help with the testosterone injections, we did that gratis (he had Medicaid, and it didn’t cover us injecting his testosterone.) That young person has been on testosterone long enough to have an unwanted side effect — stress incontinence. I prescribed topical estrogen, saying, “You have the urethra of a 70-year-old woman at this point.”

My second transgender patient came in with their mother, explicitly looking for a referral to the gender clinic. Also female at birth, but not as convincing, to me. However, mom was on board, and they had made up their minds, so I gave the referral. That one went on testosterone during their senior year in high school and got “top surgery” (a double mastectomy) during the summer before college.

They now hang out with a whole crew of trans-boys at college, joking about how they all have the same voice. (A female voice deepened by testosterone seems to end up sounding similar to other FTM voices most of the time.)

My third transgender patient was only 12, and the parents were split on what should happen. The dad was sort of like, “OK, I’ve got a son now — neat.” The mom was horrified. They brought their daughter to a gender therapist, and this therapist gave a gender dysphoria diagnosis within the first five minutes of the first session with the patient. The therapist gave a referral to the gender clinic, and “puberty blockers” were recommended. This didn’t happen. The mother had been doing some research into the side effects of puberty blockers, like Lupron, and this information changed dad’s mind.

The child has made a social transition (like multiple students at their school), but medical treatment is being put off for a few years. However, this kid recently told me that their FTM friend who moved to Los Angeles is being started on testosterone soon, age 13 in eighth grade.

My fourth transgender patient came in with her mom and little brother. She has a diagnosis of ASD but is high functioning. She is homeschooled and spends a lot of time online. I got her mom and brother out of the room and asked her what her goals were: did she want a beard? Oh no, she didn’t want a beard. Did she want a deeper voice? Yes, she would like a deeper voice. Also, she’d very much like to be taller. After I explained that medicine couldn’t make her taller (she was Tanner 4) and testosterone causes beardiness and acne in most, she decided she’d be happy with just working with a speech therapist to change her voice.

I’ve learned that if I refer a patient to the gender clinic, they are going to get the maximalist treatment. They’re not going to get any help figuring out if they really need the full medical/surgical transition. I am now wary of referring to the gender clinic. I’ve learned that there are hundreds, probably thousands of “detransitioners.” Many of them can be found at Reddit/detrans, which got up to 5,000 members in just 22 months.

I’m worried about the rapidly rising numbers of children being diagnosed as transgender and being treated with hormone blockers, cross-gender hormones, and surgery.

Julia W. Mason is a pediatrician.


https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2019/10/a-physician-is-worried-about-gender-transition-in-pediatrics.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, a sample of four "transgender patients", out of what?...thousands?

I think you are furthering, if not proving Ben's point: this is one person's opinion, and in no way represents a trend, nor even a general viewpoint.

this whole gender bender issue is politically motivated, part of the left wing marxist ideology...the frankfurt school ...of which the EU is also a part (which is why momentum and its arch participants are so in favor of ruining brexit entirely...) and just as in an extreme R?W situation these extreme lefty's, disguised of course and skulking like hyenas in the dark, dont give a flying f**k about the results of any public poll, unless it suits them.

if you are in any doubt part of the frankfurt school ideology is to pull down western civilisation by ANY means including moral turpitude, encouraging and "normalising" all sorts of things.

Original Quill wrote:So, a sample of four "transgender patients", out of what?...thousands?

I think you are furthering, if not proving Ben's point: this is one person's opinion, and in no way represents a trend, nor even a general viewpoint.

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/

5.5 thousand members

idiot

Victorismyhero wrote:this whole gender bender issue is politically motivated, part of the left wing marxist ideology...the frankfurt school ...of which the EU is also a part (which is why momentum and its arch participants are so in favor of ruining brexit entirely...) and just as in an extreme R?W situation these extreme lefty's, disguised of course and skulking like hyenas in the dark, dont give a flying f**k about the results of any public poll, unless it suits them.

if you are in any doubt part of the frankfurt school ideology is to pull down western civilisation by ANY means including moral turpitude, encouraging and "normalising" all sorts of things.

+1

Hundreds of doctors call for an urgent inquiry into risky treatment of children who believe they are transgender - as website of man who led the petition is sabotaged

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7505617/Professor-John-Whitehall-doctors-want-parliamentary-inquiry-childhood-gender-dysphoria.html

School counsellors and mental health service providers are bowing to pressures from ‘highly politicised’ transgender groups to affirm children’s beliefs that they were born the wrong sex, a leading expert has warned.

Marcus Evans, a psychotherapist and ex-governor of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, whose Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) is the only NHS clinic to provide gender counselling and transitioning, said many experts were living in fear of being labelled transphobic, which was having an impact on their objectivity.

“I believe the trans political agenda has encroached on the clinical environment surrounding and within the Gender Identity Development Service,” Evans told the Observer. “Young people need an independent clinical service that has the long-term interests of the patient at heart. To some extent, this requires a capacity to stand up to pressure coming from various sources: from the young person, their family, peer groups, online and social networking pressures and from highly politicised pro-trans groups.”

The number of children referred annually to GIDS has risen from 468 in 2013 to 2,519 in 2018. Some claim social media is a factor in the increase.In a hard-hitting paper, presented at a conference earlier this year and shared with the Observer, Evans quoted the experience of “Dagny”, a woman who identified as a trans man in her teens, has now detransitioned and says she was influenced by views expressed on the social network, Tumblr.

“One of these unhealthy beliefs I held was the belief that if you have gender dysphoria, you must transition,” Dagny has said. “And anyone that appeared to stand in my way was a transphobe – an alt-right bigot.”

Evans resigned as a governor of the trust in February in protest at its response to criticism from a former member of its council of governors, David Bell, who had raised concerns from 10 members of staff.

“They reported inadequate assessments, patients pushed through for early medical interventions and an inability to stand up to pressure from trans lobbies,” Evans said.

A review of Bell’s concerns by the trust did not “identify any immediate issues in relation to patient safety or failings in the overall approach … in responding to the needs of young people.”

Evans said that since his resignation he had become concerned that the debate around transitioning had been shut down by a vocal minority. “The mind that is free to think or ask difficult questions is treated as a real threat; TV producers and journalists continually report that while people are willing to speak in confidence to them about their reservations about treatment in these areas, they shy away from being named, for fear of being accused of being bigoted and transphobic and sometimes either disciplined or even sacked for speaking their mind.”

Since his high-profile resignation, Evans’s concerns have broadened as parents approach him for advice about their children.

“They confirm that a gender-affirmative approach is being adopted by many school counsellors and CAMHS (Children and Adolescent Mental Health Services),” Evans notes.

“These parents all expressed alarm that, after their children suddenly announced they believed they were the wrong sex, practitioners were immediately endorsing the belief that this was the cause of the child’s distress, rather than offering time to explore perhaps long-standing psychological/developmental issues.”

With waiting times for a consultation taking up to two years, some critics accuse the Tavistock of being too slow to meet demand for its services.

But others accuse it of fast-tracking children on to hormone blockers, a pathway to transitioning, a claim the trust rejects. It said that fewer than half of patients who present to it go on to its endocrine (hormone) clinics. Yesterday, the Times reported that the Royal College of Paediatricians and Child Health has asked its ethics and law advisory committee to look at the ethics surrounding the rapid increase in the use of blockers to treat under 16s who identify as transgender.

In April, it emerged that five clinicians had resigned over concerns that some children had been sent for life-changing medical intervention without a thorough assessment of their options.

Last week BBC Newsnight reported that the trust had data showing that children who took hormone blockers had reported an increase in thoughts of suicide and self-harm.

The trust said the data, involving 44 children, was too small to draw final conclusions. It said the data suggested the positive outcomes were likely to outweigh the negative .

The Newsnight expose followed an open letter posted online by a former clinician at the Leeds branch of GIDS, Dr Kirsty Entwistle, who warned that “traumatic early experiences”, which might be a factor in a young person’s desire to transition, were not being investigated by medical staff out of fear of being labelled transphobic.

In a statement the trust said: “GIDS is a thoughtful and safe service. It cares for young people at a vulnerable time in their lives. Our experience with this group of patients, which is a highly diverse group, indicates that the choice to do nothing is not neutral and may lead to significant harm.

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“The service is thorough and systematic in its approach to exploring with the young people and families the best way of dealing with their distress and the implications of different choices.”

It added: “We believe the opinions described are misinformed and based on a limited view, both of the clinical work undertaken within the service and of the experience of young people seeking help from the Gender Identity Development Service.”


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/27/trans-lobby-pressure-pushing-young-people-to-transition