Disease X more likely to end civilisation than climate change, say researchers

by eddie Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

(Not sure if it’s weird news or should go under science but it is from The Express, so...)

A KILLER disease leading to a global pandemic is more likely to cause an apocalypse than global warming, according to researchers.

World Health Organization expert explains Disease X

If 20 percent of the world’s population contracted the lethal disease X at the same time vital services could collapse, with agriculture and transport being the most affected. According to the study from Professor Lewis Dartnell, author of the book ‘The Knowledge: How to Rebuild Our World After An Apocalypse’, humans are losing the battle in the fight against germs. The study blamed people misusing antibiotics and an over-prescription of medicines for creating a problem of drug resistance for infections such as pneumonia and tuberculosis.

In January, Health Secretary Matt Hancock announced a new Government plan to tackle the problem of antibiotic resistance and said the issue needed an “urgent global response” at the World Economic Forum at Davos.

The Government aims to control and contain drug resistance by 2040 and hopes to reduce the use of antibiotics in humans by 15 percent over the next five years.

Medicines are often prescribed for self-healing conditions such as viruses that don’t heal through the use of antibiotics.

Antibiotic Research UK claims that many routine medical procedures will become impossible in 10 to 15 years time if nothing is done to stop the rate of drug resistance.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1120493/disease-x-apocalypse-end-of-the-world

by Syl Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Remember the poll we had a whila ago, what would be the next global disaster the world would face?

I actually answered it would be some sort of virus or disease, cant quite remember how it was put.

No one else thought that.....not that I wantbto be proved right. pale

by eddie Mon May 13, 2019 11:36 pm

I certainly think we can overuse everyday medicines like painkillers and antibiotics to the point that we can’t fight anything anymore.

Our bodies need good, healthy food and exercise.

Of course, they also need the relevant medicines if you’re suffering from something life-threatening...but even then, healthy food will help.

by Ben Reilly Mon May 13, 2019 11:40 pm

Syl wrote:Remember the poll we had a whila ago, what would be the next global disaster the world would face?

I actually answered it would be some sort of virus or disease, cant quite remember how it was put.

No one else thought that.....not that I wantbto be proved right.

Of course not, and what's sad about this threat is that it's 100 percent preventable.

We need to stop living and forcing our kids to live in hermetically sealed bubbles, and we need to start refusing medicines we don't really need, such as antibiotics for viruses.

I played in the dirt as a kid, I got cut and scraped up miles from home, with no cell phone to call Mommy.

Think about how different our childhoods were to kids today. The only thing that's changed is that parents have allowed themselves to become irrationally afraid of pedos and germs, which have always been around, which we survived, and which the kids of today (with a few exceptions, as always) will survive as well.

by Syl Mon May 13, 2019 11:43 pm

I think one day, when anti biotics have been so overused they are rendered useless, and a new strain of virus cant be controlled by medicine, it's possible that a deadly virus will be untreatable and spread globally, wiping out much of the worlds population.

Course I could have been watching too many horror films.

by Vintage Tue May 14, 2019 12:17 am

If children aren't exposed to everday germs for want of a better term, their immune systems don't develop as well as the should. Those of us who played out in the dirt in almost all weathers seem pretty hardy, no allergies. Most people had dogs and cats at home and the children in the village hung around the local farms 'helping' out surrounded by cows, sheep, pigs and chickens. We drank milk that was only filtered through paper and a metal sieve, into the churns. I think we rarely washed our hands unless stood over before we'd have a jam sandwich. We'd all be so grubby by the end of the day it would be a strip wash before bed, bathing was for sunday evenings ready for school, considering the work involved to heat enough water on the fire to fill the tin bath enough.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2019 9:40 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Syl wrote:Remember the poll we had a whila ago, what would be the next global disaster the world would face?

I actually answered it would be some sort of virus or disease, cant quite remember how it was put.

No one else thought that.....not that I wantbto be proved right.

Of course not, and what's sad about this threat is that it's 100 percent preventable.

We need to stop living and forcing our kids to live in hermetically sealed bubbles, and we need to start refusing medicines we don't really need, such as antibiotics for viruses.

I played in the dirt as a kid, I got cut and scraped up miles from home, with no cell phone to call Mommy.

Think about how different our childhoods were to kids today. The only thing that's changed is that parents have allowed themselves to become irrationally afraid of pedos and germs, which have always been around, which we survived, and which the kids of today (with a few exceptions, as always) will survive as well.

What has any of the above have to do with pandemics? You do realise they occure every hundred years or so and most have occured before anti-biotics?

We are long over due one and no amount of anti-biotics would ever play a part in stopping that.

So yes this threat is real, but the babble you presented above makes utterly no sense medically

The reality is the last pandemic was the Spanish flu and hardly anyone had anti-biotics then

So what on earth are you going on about, seriously?

Does this mean we should not care about the potential threat of climate change?

We really can only look to prevent a pandemic, which we have little to prevent against. Its the one aspect that actually proves the mutation of a virus, of evolution itself.

I mean if you are going to start a view on a topic. Dont then distort this by some poorly uneducated view around anti-biotics. Yes many are giving out too much, but thios has little to do with how and when pandemics strike. i seriously wish you start actually looking at the science on this and not some person so naive, that believes in spirtitualism.

by Vintage Fri May 17, 2019 10:31 pm

If there had been antibiotics during the Black Death, if it was the plague, people could have been treated, assuming enough antibiotics could have been produced, its how people with Yersinia pestis or those in contact with it are treated today.
Hanta virus is a different story, you can only support the victim as much as possible and hope their immune system does the rest. The bird flue strain seems to be trying hard to develop enough to take us on another one we can't really do much about if it did. The problem today is the pandemic will move around the world so quickly it will probably overwhelm us before we can really start to defend ourselves if that is indeed possible.
So it'll be down to those few who manage to recover and those who seem to be immune but will be a threat to anyone who has managed not to be exposed initially.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2019 10:44 pm

Vintage wrote:If there had been antibiotics during the Black Death, if it was the plague, people could have been treated, assuming enough antibiotics could have been produced, its how people with Yersinia pestis or those in contact with it are treated today.
Hanta virus is a different story, you can only support the victim as much as possible and hope their immune system does the rest. The bird flue strain seems to be trying hard to develop enough to take us on another one we can't really do much about if it did. The problem today is the pandemic will move around the world so quickly it will probably overwhelm us before we can really start to defend ourselves if that is indeed possible.
So it'll be down to those few who manage to recover and those who seem to be immune but will be a threat to anyone who has managed not to be exposed initially.

Could they have been vintage?
You have to understand that when a pandemic evolves is based on evolution itself in how it mutates as a virus. Its amasing how medically science is able to prevent this to the point we are at today.
It has always been down to those few people that can resist the virus and how this is then learnt to tackle the virus
Some people are lucky enought to be able to defeat the virus.
In fact we have a better chance of tackling a pandemic, than ever before, based on science.
When a pandemic takes hold, as it has many times before, there is very little that can eb done until today
Its being able to create a vaccine to this, that ends up saving people
Its why the swine flu vaccine wa instrumental in stopping the spread of this.
We have to give credit to the scientific community on this, that prevented this pandemic spreading
This is why i dispair at the babble Ben projected here and even worse from someone that takes normally a scientific stance on medicine

Yes we know there is problems with too much anti-biotic use, but to claim that less use, would prevent a pandemic. Is not grounded in science or reality.

by Victorismyhero Fri May 17, 2019 11:18 pm

if antibiotics had been around at the time of the black death then yes it would have been stopped in its tracks, since yersinia pestis is a BACTERIUM, against which antibiotics are (generally) effective, un less bacterial resistance develops

in the case of spanish flu, NO antibiotic would have worked since that is a VIRUS, against which NO antibiotic works, indeed the only "chemical cure" for viruses is interferon and some antivirals like retrovir which work in an entirely different manner to antibiotics.

if a new virulent flu gets loose the ONLY way a nation will be able to escape it is isolation rigidly imposed by military means....untill a vaccine is developed, and if for some reason a virus like ebola became capable of surviving long outside the body and also airborne then we would be in deep shit, cos there would be no stopping it.....

by Vintage Fri May 17, 2019 11:19 pm

Antibiotics do little against virus unless there's a secondary infection. Yersinia pestis is a bacteria so antibiotics can have a beneficial effect and still does. People are a bit confused I think about antibiotic resistance, its the germs that are becoming resistant due to being exposed to the various or particular antibiotic, so not using antibiotics so much for almost anything is a good idea if sadly rather too late for almost all current antibiotics so Ben is correct on that score.
Some people think provided they don't use antibiotics themselves they'll still work for them, sadly it isn't an individual thing.
Virus need to be treated specifically with an antiviral which is why its difficult to do.
As already stated in the previous post.

by Cass Sat May 18, 2019 4:15 am

I’m currently reading a book on Royal Poisonings and most of those suspected of dying by poison actually died by pandemics.

Remember certain types of pandemics would not respond to medicines.

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:21 am

Victorismyhero wrote:if antibiotics had been around at the time of the black death then yes it would have been stopped in its tracks, since yersinia pestis is a BACTERIUM, against which antibiotics are (generally) effective, un less bacterial resistance develops

in the case of spanish flu, NO antibiotic would have worked since that is a VIRUS, against which NO antibiotic works, indeed the only "chemical cure" for viruses is interferon and some antivirals like retrovir which work in an entirely different manner to antibiotics.

if a new virulent flu gets loose the ONLY way a nation will be able to escape it is isolation rigidly imposed by military means....untill a vaccine is developed, and if for some reason a virus like ebola became capable of surviving long outside the body and also airborne then we would be in deep shit, cos there would be no stopping it.....

Yes, the Spanish flu (which didn't actually come from Spain in the first place) caused death re secondary bacterial complications and also by over-reaction of the immune system - a cytokine storm. Those with robust immune systems were actually more at risk of dying.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:59 am

Victorismyhero wrote:if antibiotics had been around at the time of the black death then yes it would have been stopped in its tracks, since yersinia pestis is a BACTERIUM, against which antibiotics are (generally) effective, un less bacterial resistance develops

in the case of spanish flu, NO antibiotic would have worked since that is a VIRUS, against which NO antibiotic works, indeed the only "chemical cure" for viruses is interferon and some antivirals like retrovir which work in an entirely different manner to antibiotics.

if a new virulent flu gets loose the ONLY way a nation will be able to escape it is isolation rigidly imposed by military means....untill a vaccine is developed, and if for some reason a virus like ebola became capable of surviving long outside the body and also airborne then we would be in deep shit, cos there would be no stopping it.....

Well the Black death was not a viral infection. It was a bacterial infection. Hence could have been treated by anti-biotics.

So have no idea why you brought that up mate. When there have been roughly three global pandemic influenza outbreaks each century for the past four hundred years, each of which have resulted in larger numbers of infections and deaths.
I agree on the rest of your points and why I found the view on anti-biotics here by others. To be utterly poor to say the least.
It really had no relevance.
As seen the biggest threat is from an influenza outbreak.
I also understand the points made by the Professor If we have many people infected, then the world is going to be fucked
I prefer the Metro article as the Express is just about the worst newspaper going for being accurate in its writings

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/30/global-pandemic-may-pose-bigger-risk-civilisation-climate-change-warns-apocalypse-report-9360901/

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 10:18 am

People generally think of viruses when they talk about pandemics, but it's not just viruses, it's bacteria too. The point is that if antibiotics become useless, there could be a bacterial pandemic which could finish off a lot of people.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 8:12 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Syl wrote:Remember the poll we had a whila ago, what would be the next global disaster the world would face?

I actually answered it would be some sort of virus or disease, cant quite remember how it was put.

No one else thought that.....not that I wantbto be proved right.

Of course not, and what's sad about this threat is that it's 100 percent preventable.

We need to stop living and forcing our kids to live in hermetically sealed bubbles, and we need to start refusing medicines we don't really need, such as antibiotics for viruses.

I played in the dirt as a kid, I got cut and scraped up miles from home, with no cell phone to call Mommy.

Think about how different our childhoods were to kids today. The only thing that's changed is that parents have allowed themselves to become irrationally afraid of pedos and germs, which have always been around, which we survived, and which the kids of today (with a few exceptions, as always) will survive as well.

What has any of the above have to do with pandemics? You do realise they occure every hundred years or so and most have occured before anti-biotics?

We are long over due one and no amount of anti-biotics would ever play a part in stopping that.

So yes this threat is real, but the babble you presented above makes utterly no sense medically

The reality is the last pandemic was the Spanish flu and hardly anyone had anti-biotics then

So what on earth are you going on about, seriously?

Does this mean we should not care about the potential threat of climate change?

We really can only look to prevent a pandemic, which we have little to prevent against. Its the one aspect that actually proves the mutation of a virus, of evolution itself.

I mean if you are going to start a view on a topic. Dont then distort this by some poorly uneducated view around anti-biotics. Yes many are giving out too much, but thios has little to do with how and when pandemics strike. i seriously wish you start actually looking at the science on this and not some person so naive, that believes in spirtitualism.

I was talking about this part, which you either didn't read or didn't understand:

humans are losing the battle in the fight against germs. The study blamed people misusing antibiotics and an over-prescription of medicines for creating a problem of drug resistance for infections

It's important to understand what you're arguing about before you try to rip me a new asshole for making a perfectly valid statement, Didge.

And try to leave personal shit out of it. I know that's hard for you, but I'm asking you to try.

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:17 pm

I can't see what's wrong with what Ben said, other than the bit about being 100% preventable. The article is about overuse of antibiotics and drug resistance, which implies that it's a bacterial disease which they're talking about.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:25 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

What has any of the above have to do with pandemics? You do realise they occure every hundred years or so and most have occured before anti-biotics?

We are long over due one and no amount of anti-biotics would ever play a part in stopping that.

So yes this threat is real, but the babble you presented above makes utterly no sense medically

The reality is the last pandemic was the Spanish flu and hardly anyone had anti-biotics then

So what on earth are you going on about, seriously?

Does this mean we should not care about the potential threat of climate change?

We really can only look to prevent a pandemic, which we have little to prevent against. Its the one aspect that actually proves the mutation of a virus, of evolution itself.

I mean if you are going to start a view on a topic. Dont then distort this by some poorly uneducated view around anti-biotics. Yes many are giving out too much, but thios has little to do with how and when pandemics strike. i seriously wish you start actually looking at the science on this and not some person so naive, that believes in spirtitualism.

I was talking about this part, which you either didn't read or didn't understand:

humans are losing the battle in the fight against germs. The study blamed people misusing antibiotics and an over-prescription of medicines for creating a problem of drug resistance for infections

It's important to understand what you're arguing about before you try to rip me a new asshole for making a perfectly valid statement, Didge.

And try to leave personal shit out of it. I know that's hard for you, but I'm asking you to try.

OMG, what was personal above?

Nothing

Okay, so this should be fun, I know the problems around antibiotic resistance

What is the biggest factor that causes antibiotic resistance?

That this occurs naturally and again is a big factor in proving evolution

Now of course this is being accelerated by the misuse of antibiotics

So to go off then what could kill us all off is unlikely to be a bacterial infection, but a viral infection. Which as seen anti-biotics are useless against. Its been pandemics in regards to viral infections over the last few centuries about 3 each century

So why center on antibiotics, here, unless you think everyone is going to suddennly have contracted a new strain of pneumonia, tuberculosis, gonorrhoea?

So what was valid about your claim, when talking about a global killer?

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:28 pm

There could be a rise in TB, a pandemic of bacterial meningitis or bacterial pneumonia. Not all pandemics are viral.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There could be a rise in TB, a pandemic of bacterial meningitis or bacterial pneumonia. Not all pandemics are viral.

When was the last bacterial pandemic?

A rise in TB, does not necessarily mean the end of civilisatiion. Which is what is being stated.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:30 pm

Anyway, as seen science finds a way with bacterial infections

Bacteria found in ancient Irish soil halts growth of superbugs: New hope for tackling antibiotic resistance

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/12/181227111427.htm

Hence its the vrial forms, that are the most concerning in regards to the end of civilisation

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:35 pm

Many of the victims of the Spanish flu were killed by bacterial pneumonia.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Many of the victims of the Spanish flu were killed by bacterial pneumonia.

And?

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:40 pm

There have been pandemics of typhus, cholera, and TB, so you see that not all pandemics are viral.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:44 pm

Why the red Rags?

You do know that the Spanish Flu was 1919

Antibiotics were invented in 1928

You do realise that it was malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, poor hygiene that promoted bacterial superinfection. When the Spanish flu occured.

Hence why I rightly asked, and?

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 8:49 pm

It's not about whether the pandemic is viral or bacterial, actually.

Right now the single-best defense against any infection, whether viral or bacterial, is a healthy immune system. And when it comes to viruses, our immune systems are basically the only defense.

So when we overuse antibiotics when we get minor infections, we don't let our immune systems become strong enough to fight a bad viral infection.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:49 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There have been pandemics of typhus, cholera, and TB, so you see that not all pandemics are viral.

Where did I claim, that all pandemics were viral?

Never did and a you again claiming something not said

I simple asked, you, when was the last one

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:51 pm

I didn't give out a red.

None of those things caused pneumonia. It's not uncommon for a superinfection to occur when one has a viral infection.

The point is that bacterial pneumonia can currently be cured with antibiotics. The concern is that those antibiotics may well become ineffective.

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:52 pm

phildidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There have been pandemics of typhus, cholera, and TB, so you see that not all pandemics are viral.

Where did I claim, that all pandemics were viral?

Never did and a you again claiming something not said

I simple asked, you, when was the last one

Don't waste my time Didge.

So to go off then what could kill us all off is unlikely to be a bacterial infection, but a viral infection. Which as seen anti-biotics are useless against. Its been pandemics in regards to viral infections over the last few centuries about 3 each century

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 8:53 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:It's not about whether the pandemic is viral or bacterial, actually.

Right now the single-best defense against any infection, whether viral or bacterial, is a healthy immune system. And when it comes to viruses, our immune systems are basically the only defense.

So when we overuse antibiotics when we get minor infections, we don't let our immune systems become strong enough to fight a bad viral infection.

That actually doesn't make sense. Fighting off a bacterial infection or not doesn't affect our ability to fight off a viral infection.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:54 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:It's not about whether the pandemic is viral or bacterial, actually.

Right now the single-best defense against any infection, whether viral or bacterial, is a healthy immune system. And when it comes to viruses, our immune systems are basically the only defense.

So when we overuse antibiotics when we get minor infections, we don't let our immune systems become strong enough to fight a bad viral infection.

You think a healthy immune system, is what is best to fight a viral infection when its a pandemic?
People with healthy immune systems, contract diseases all the time and sadly die.

Its not finishing courses of antibiotics, that most cause problems. As when people do not finish the course, then the bacterial infection may not have been fully cleared and is able to mutate then against this. That bacterial infection then becomes ressistant

Again this is based on what is the biggest threat to life and when its a viral infection, many people with healthy iummune systems, will sadly die

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 8:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Where did I claim, that all pandemics were viral?

Never did and a you again claiming something not said

I simple asked, you, when was the last one

Don't waste my time Didge.

So to go off then what could kill us all off is unlikely to be a bacterial infection, but a viral infection. Which as seen anti-biotics are useless against. Its been pandemics in regards to viral infections over the last few centuries about 3 each century

So you cannot post up a single one them, when i asked when was the last one

There is reasons why said bacterial pandemics happened and we never had antibiotics or was the health standards good

That is why its less likely for a bacterial pandemic to occur

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 8:58 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:It's not about whether the pandemic is viral or bacterial, actually.

Right now the single-best defense against any infection, whether viral or bacterial, is a healthy immune system. And when it comes to viruses, our immune systems are basically the only defense.

So when we overuse antibiotics when we get minor infections, we don't let our immune systems become strong enough to fight a bad viral infection.

You think a healthy immune system, is what is best to fight a viral infection when its a pandemic?
People with healthy immune systems, contract diseases all the time and sadly die.

Its not finishing courses of antibiotics, that most cause problems. As when people do not finish the course, then the bacterial infection may not have been fully cleared and is able to mutate then against this. That bacterial infection then becomes ressistant

Again this is based on what is the biggest threat to life and when its a viral infection, many people with healthy iummune systems, will sadly die

True and not the point, which is that we're compromising many people's immune systems by sanitizing the world and using too many antibiotics. Which I already said.

During a pandemic, more people will survive if more people have healthy immune systems. Right?

So we need to stop compromising our own immune systems, and we need to stop causing the evolution of MRSA-like bacteria -- as you alluded to.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:00 pm

i would add that its more than just having a healthy immune system to fight a viral pandemic. As again many healthy people will end up dying. Its down to an element of luck, a will to live and whether your immune system can react to defending your body.
The best defense against such an infection is vaccines.

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 9:00 pm

What is of concern is the rise in autoimmune disease, whereby someone has a faulty immune system. That might make them immunocompromised, or it might make them more susceptible to sepsis.

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 pm

phildidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't waste my time Didge.

So you cannot post up a single one them, when i asked when was the last one

There is reasons why said bacterial pandemics happened and we never had antibiotics or was the health standards good

That is why its less likely for a bacterial pandemic to occur

I told you not to waste my time. You've come back just the same ignorant idiot you always were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:03 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

You think a healthy immune system, is what is best to fight a viral infection when its a pandemic?
People with healthy immune systems, contract diseases all the time and sadly die.

Its not finishing courses of antibiotics, that most cause problems. As when people do not finish the course, then the bacterial infection may not have been fully cleared and is able to mutate then against this. That bacterial infection then becomes ressistant

Again this is based on what is the biggest threat to life and when its a viral infection, many people with healthy iummune systems, will sadly die

True and not the point, which is that we're compromising many people's immune systems by sanitizing the world and using too many antibiotics. Which I already said.

During a pandemic, more people will survive if more people have healthy immune systems. Right?

So we need to stop compromising our own immune systems, and we need to stop causing the evolution of MRSA-like bacteria -- as you alluded to.

Yes, we understand you are only looking at one view point on this

Sorry but it also happens naturally that bacteria mutates. Its not just down to the misuse of antibiotics

Do you understand that?

The misuse accelerates the problem of fighting the bacterial diseases. It does not stop them mutating themselves

Of course a healthy immune system is going to fight better against any condition, but its simple not enough in the case of many deadly diseases. That is what you are failing to grasp

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
phildidge wrote:

So you cannot post up a single one them, when i asked when was the last one

There is reasons why said bacterial pandemics happened and we never had antibiotics or was the health standards good

That is why its less likely for a bacterial pandemic to occur

I told you not to waste my time. You've come back just the same ignorant idiot you always were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

So you are still unable to tell me the last one that occured. You have to post a wiki link and not say for yourself

Then you resort to childish insults, which as seen you always get away with

There is a sexist form of moderation here, where female posters can insult with impunity

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 9:06 pm

phildidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I told you not to waste my time. You've come back just the same ignorant idiot you always were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

So you are still unable to tell me the last one that occured. You have to post a wiki link and not say for yourself

Then you resort to childish insults, which as seen you always get away with

There is a sexist form of moderation here, where female posters can insult with impunity

Says the idiot who posts links instead of explaining anything.

Read it for yourself, you ignorant idiot. You'll see there are bacterial pandemics in there.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 9:07 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

You think a healthy immune system, is what is best to fight a viral infection when its a pandemic?
People with healthy immune systems, contract diseases all the time and sadly die.

Its not finishing courses of antibiotics, that most cause problems. As when people do not finish the course, then the bacterial infection may not have been fully cleared and is able to mutate then against this. That bacterial infection then becomes ressistant

Again this is based on what is the biggest threat to life and when its a viral infection, many people with healthy iummune systems, will sadly die

True and not the point, which is that we're compromising many people's immune systems by sanitizing the world and using too many antibiotics. Which I already said.

During a pandemic, more people will survive if more people have healthy immune systems. Right?

So we need to stop compromising our own immune systems, and we need to stop causing the evolution of MRSA-like bacteria -- as you alluded to.

Yes, we understand you are only looking at one view point on this

Sorry but it also happens naturally that bacteria mutates. Its not just down to the misuse of antibiotics

Do you understand that?

The misuse accelerates the problem of fighting the bacterial diseases. It does not stop them mutating themselves

Of course a healthy immune system is going to fight better against any condition, but its simple not enough in the case of many deadly diseases. That is what you are failing to grasp

Yeah, but where have I argued that we should abandon the use of antibiotics? I'm talking about the misuse or overuse of antibiotics.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:08 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
phildidge wrote:

So you are still unable to tell me the last one that occured. You have to post a wiki link and not say for yourself

Then you resort to childish insults, which as seen you always get away with

There is a sexist form of moderation here, where female posters can insult with impunity

Says the idiot who posts links instead of explaining anything.

Read it for yourself, you ignorant idiot. You'll see there are bacterial pandemics in there.

So yet more abuse

Again never claimed once that bacterial pandemics never happen

What did I actually say Rags, or are you going to continually throw abuse knowing the mods will do nothing?

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 9:10 pm

There has also been a fairly sudden rise in sepsis, but I don't know why. Sepsis can kill, and yet it's caused by an over-reaction by the immune system. Therefore, a robust and active immune system is not necessarily a life saver.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2019 9:11 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Yes, we understand you are only looking at one view point on this

Sorry but it also happens naturally that bacteria mutates. Its not just down to the misuse of antibiotics

Do you understand that?

The misuse accelerates the problem of fighting the bacterial diseases. It does not stop them mutating themselves

Of course a healthy immune system is going to fight better against any condition, but its simple not enough in the case of many deadly diseases. That is what you are failing to grasp

Yeah, but where have I argued that we should abandon the use of antibiotics? I'm talking about the misuse or overuse of antibiotics.

I understand what you are talking about, but the article is going off the end of civilisation

I can understanding this happenning with a viral infection, but even the best estimates by WHO. Claim that bacterial superbugs could kill up to 1.3 million by 2050. As scary as that is. That is not something that is going to bring about the end of civilisation, is it? Yet a viral infection certainly could.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 9:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There has also been a fairly sudden rise in sepsis, but I don't know why. Sepsis can kill, and yet it's caused by an over-reaction by the immune system. Therefore, a robust and active immune system is not necessarily a life saver.

Better to have it than not have it, though. There's no way you're not in better shape to survive if your immune system is healthy, which is why I eat food that's fallen on the floor and encourage others to as well Laughing

by Raggamuffin Sat May 18, 2019 9:24 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There has also been a fairly sudden rise in sepsis, but I don't know why. Sepsis can kill, and yet it's caused by an over-reaction by the immune system. Therefore, a robust and active immune system is not necessarily a life saver.

Better to have it than not have it, though. There's no way you're not in better shape to survive if your immune system is healthy, which is why I eat food that's fallen on the floor and encourage others to as well

Absolutely - and get food out of bins too. Razz

Mrs Hinch has a lot to answer for. Sales of cleaning products have risen since she's been around. Laughing

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46646800

by Ben Reilly Sat May 18, 2019 10:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There has also been a fairly sudden rise in sepsis, but I don't know why. Sepsis can kill, and yet it's caused by an over-reaction by the immune system. Therefore, a robust and active immune system is not necessarily a life saver.

Better to have it than not have it, though. There's no way you're not in better shape to survive if your immune system is healthy, which is why I eat food that's fallen on the floor and encourage others to as well

Absolutely - and get food out of bins too.

Mrs Hinch has a lot to answer for. Sales of cleaning products have risen since she's been around.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46646800

I'd never heard of her before; bet I'd find her annoying as hell Laughing

by Vintage Sat May 18, 2019 11:19 pm

We evolved in the dirt and vegetation in fairly close proximity to other species, we lived with bacteria, its all around us and part of us its what has made us, trying to avoid bacteria and killing 99% of household germs will be detrimental.

by eddie Sun May 19, 2019 12:21 am

Vintage wrote:We evolved in the dirt and vegetation in fairly close proximity to other species, we lived with bacteria, its all around us and part of us its what has made us, trying to avoid bacteria and killing 99% of household germs will be detrimental.

I kinda of agree.

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