Arizona Business Community Says Governor Should Scrap Anti-Gay Bill

[Ben Reilly]

First topic message reminder :

Business leaders are reacting with concern over the proposed and potentially discriminatory religion bill passed by the Arizona Legislature Thursday, saying it could damage the state’s recovering economy even as it readies for the potential boost it will get from hosting next year’s Super Bowl.

The Greater Phoenix Economic Council on Friday urged a veto of the controversial legislation that would allow discrimination against gays, saying it could affect Super Bowl XLIX and have “profound, negative” economic effects for years to come.

Another group, the Greater Phoenix Chamber of Commerce, said it has no official position on SB 1062 at this time. “But our review of the bill raises concerns about the uncertainties this would create for our member businesses,” the group said in a statement.

The controversy comes at a time when Arizona’s economy was just starting to shift into higher gear. BMO Capital Markets, in a report this month, said Arizona’s economy is poised to grow faster than the nation both this year and next. Now those upbeat predictions are coming into doubt.

“The state already is known as being discriminatory,” said Howard Fleischmann, majority owner of six Community Tire Pros and Auto Repair outlets in the Valley. “This would muddy the water and give Arizona a more terrible reputation.”

http://www.azcentral.com/business/arizonaeconomy/articles/20140221phoenix-area-business-council-opposes-religion-bill-lm.html

Related topic:

https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t2697-arizona-senate-passes-bill-allowing-discrimination-on-basis-of-religious-freedom

[Guest]

lol...equality isn't important to you at all, just the promotion of your own agenda... :D 

[Ben Reilly]

lol...equality isn't important to you at all, just the promotion of your own agenda... :D 

No, I'm just as much against the homophobes as you are, HF :D

[Guest]

the inequality is them not having the right to refuse..

care to explain gay only hotels??

Same law for all:



1. Types of discrimination

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

age

being or becoming a transsexual person

being married or in a civil partnership

being pregnant or having a child

disability

race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin

religion, belief or lack of religion/belief

sex

sexual orientation


These are called ‘protected characteristics’.
You’re protected from discrimination in these situations:

at work

in education

as a consumer

when using public services

when buying or renting property

as a member or guest of a private club or association

[Guest]

lol...equality isn't important to you at all, just the promotion of your own agenda... :D 

No, I'm just as much against the homophobes as you are, HF :D

oh the spin word haven't seen that one for a while...

as i said not for equality... :D 

should the gay only hotels exist?? :D 

[Guest]

Thus the B&B couple placed their faith above British law, as the law is applies to all, which is very interesting do you not think HF, that they placed their faith above the law?

[Ben Reilly]

lol...equality isn't important to you at all, just the promotion of your own agenda... :D 

No, I'm just as much against the homophobes as you are, HF :D

oh the spin word haven't seen that one for a while...

as i said not for equality... :D 

should the gay only hotels exist?? :D 

The word "spin" wasn't in that quote, but yes, as you said, these homophobes are not for equality! But don't worry, we'll win in the end, as long as we keep convincing people like yourself!

I imagine you're listening to this song at home now with such pride:

[Guest]

ha ha ha well hopefully equality is coming, then it will be an interesting change..

[Guest]

No, I'm just as much against the homophobes as you are, HF :D

oh the spin word haven't seen that one for a while...

as i said not for equality... :D 

should the gay only hotels exist?? :D 

They are not gay only, try and book and they will cater for you, if they don;t they are held accountable on discrimination grounds due to your sexuality

Good luck, I know they do as Dean emailed them and showed us all a reply from the Gay only hotel
They like every other business that caters to the public have to abide by discrimination laws.

[Ben Reilly]

ha ha ha well hopefully equality is coming, then it will be an interesting change..

If people like you and I continue to stand up against those who are afraid of gay people, equality will indeed come! It will come to the U.K., to the U.S.; it will come all over the place.

[Guest]

back to topic, the right to refuse to serve whoever they please is quite correct. :D 

[Guest]

back to topic, the right to refuse to serve whoever they please is quite correct. :D 

Again read the discrimination laws, if you are having difficulties, they are posted twice for you and a link and shows the same level of law on this to all


DOH

[Guest]

back to topic, the right to refuse to serve whoever they please is quite correct. :D 

Again read the discrimination laws, if you are having difficulties, they are posted twice for you and a link and shows the same level of law on this to all


DOH

lets hope this bill keeps true equality alive...

do you think gay only hotels are ok too??? :D 

[Guest]

Lets hope this Bill goes the way of the Dodo

As to gay only hotels, no I do not, because that again discriminates on sexuality. which you would learn if you read the act and also learn they also accept non-gay couples


Seriously, do you just keep repeating the same rubbish all the time, read back if confused, as is difficult for me to dumb so far down to your level

[Guest]

Lets hope this Bill goes the way of the Dodo

As to gay only hotels, no I do not, because that again discriminates on sexuality. which you would learn if you read the act and also learn they also accept non-gay couples


Seriously, do you just keep repeating the same rubbish all the time, read back if confused, as is difficult for me to dumb so far down to your level

so why do they exist...not equality...  

i hope the bill remains because it is true equality...  

[veya_victaous]

Lets hope this Bill goes the way of the Dodo

As to gay only hotels, no I do not, because that again discriminates on sexuality. which you would learn if you read the act and also learn they also accept non-gay couples


Seriously, do you just keep repeating the same rubbish all the time, read back if confused, as is difficult for me to dumb so far down to your level

so why do they exist...not equality...  

i hope the bill remains because it is true equality...  

Find a Gay ONLY hotel. I believe you will find they don't really exist. they will accept you booking

[Guest]

so why do they exist...not equality...  

i hope the bill remains because it is true equality...  

Find a Gay ONLY hotel. I believe you will find they don't really exist. they will accept you booking

they do exist and i think as an experiment i will book myself and my wife to go there... i wonder if equality works both ways...

[veya_victaous]

@HF
Please do    film it make a documentry you could make a few buck and highlight the cause fo equality at the same time   

[Eilzel]

Find a Gay ONLY hotel. I believe you will find they don't really exist. they will accept you booking

they do exist and i think as an experiment i will book myself and my wife to go there... i wonder if equality works both ways...

Dean actually did this with that Chaps hotel every used to harp on about- they said he and his wife could indeed stay  ::D:: 

[gerber]

Find a Gay ONLY hotel. I believe you will find they don't really exist. they will accept you booking

they do exist and i think as an experiment i will book myself and my wife to go there... i wonder if equality works both ways...

" Welcome to Chaps Hotel Blackpool. Exclusively gay men only!

Certificate of Excellence
2013 WINNER
TripAdvisor
Chaps
Chaps hotel is the largest and one of the best hotels for men only and perfect for Gay holidays and Gay weekends. Chaps Hotel, Blackpool's Premier Gay Hotel is truly one of the most popular hotels in Blackpool and has been 'the place to stay for gay holidays' for many years. Close to the sea front, and within easy walking distance of all the Gay Bars, Clubs and Sauna's that Blackpool has to offer.

http://www.chapshotel.co.uk/index.php

[Guest]

excellent we will see what happens when i book a weekend with my wife and our friends another married couple.

[Guest]

we were on about a most excellent equality bill, well done Arizona.

[gerber]

excellent we will see what happens when i book a weekend with my wife and our friends another married couple.

me thinks making a booking and actually turning up on the door step are two different things. Wouldn't be at all surprised to find them full or have made a huge mistake with the bookings.......

The description could not be any clearer " For men only "

The fact they can advertise as such must be discrimination

[Guest]

excellent we will see what happens when i book a weekend with my wife and our friends another married couple.

me thinks making a booking and actually turning up on the door step are two different things. Wouldn't be at all surprised to find them full or have made a huge mistake with the bookings.......

The description could not be any clearer " For men only "

The fact they can advertise as such must be discrimination

I agree and we will see as there will be two ladies present...  

[Eilzel]

excellent we will see what happens when i book a weekend with my wife and our friends another married couple.

me thinks making a booking and actually turning up on the door step are two different things. Wouldn't be at all surprised to find them full or have made a huge mistake with the bookings.......

The description could not be any clearer " For men only "

The fact they can advertise as such must be discrimination

Well there is only one way to find up. Really what it all comes down to then is putting up or shutting up   

[Guest]

me thinks making a booking and actually turning up on the door step are two different things. Wouldn't be at all surprised to find them full or have made a huge mistake with the bookings.......

The description could not be any clearer " For men only "

The fact they can advertise as such must be discrimination

Well there is only one way to find up. Really what it all comes down to then is putting up or shutting up   

its for our big wedding anniversary too, we are so looking forward to it and if it gets ruined by discrimination, i would hate to have to take it to court...  

[veya_victaous]

me thinks making a booking and actually turning up on the door step are two different things. Wouldn't be at all surprised to find them full or have made a huge mistake with the bookings.......

The description could not be any clearer " For men only "

The fact they can advertise as such must be discrimination

I agree and we will see as there will be two ladies present...  

Well is there women only hotels? because gender discrimination is different than sexual discrimination.

[Guest]

I agree and we will see as there will be two ladies present...  

Well is there women only hotels? because gender discrimination is different than sexual discrimination.

no idea but discrimination is wrong anyway, you lot all agree in equality so strongly, i'm sure if the hotel turns us away you will all be cheering for us in court to win our case and sue the hotel.  

[veya_victaous]

Well is there women only hotels? because gender discrimination is different than sexual discrimination.

no idea but discrimination is wrong anyway, you lot all agree in equality so strongly, i'm sure if the hotel turns us away you will all be cheering for us in court to win our case and sue the hotel.  

Yes I will, but be sure they are doing it because you are straight and not just turning away the lady.
I know there are women only gyms and such (not heard of any hotels) which is very sexist and should not be allowed under anti discrimination laws.

[Guest]

no idea but discrimination is wrong anyway, you lot all agree in equality so strongly, i'm sure if the hotel turns us away you will all be cheering for us in court to win our case and sue the hotel.  

Yes I will, but be sure they are doing it because you are straight and not just turning away the lady.
I know there are women only gyms and such (not heard of any hotels) which is very sexist and should not be allowed under anti discrimination laws.

thank you for that i will make sure they are recorded stating their position for the non admittance..

[Raggamuffin]

Is that website for real?

Welcome to Chaps Hotel Blackpool. Exclusively gay men only!

[veya_victaous]

@HF

Have some Candy, I have been delivering too much chaos to you recently... I do honestly agree about the No discrimination should be 2 way

@ragga
but IF you actually book do they stop you? that's the thing you can say stuff but it is not illegal until someone puts it to the test.
Maybe if everyone was sensible Gays wouldn't bother Churches and Christians wouldn't bother gays.. I cant imagine what father is going to do if they do let him stay    :      
Similarly I cant see why Gays would want to go and pray to God that hates them    

[Raggamuffin]

@HF

Have some Candy, I have been delivering too much chaos to you recently... I do honestly agree about the No discrimination should be 2 way

@ragga
but IF you actually book do they stop you? that's the thing you can say stuff but it is not illegal until someone puts it to the test.
Maybe if everyone was sensible Gays wouldn't bother Churches and Christians wouldn't bother gays.. I cant imagine what father is going to do if they do let him stay    :      
Similarly I cant see why Gays would want to go and pray to God that hates them    

So if someone put a sign on a hotel door or a hotel website saying "no blacks", that would be fine as long as they let black people stay there?

This is nothing to do with religion either, it's to do with a hotel advertising for men only, particularly gay men.

[Guest]

Is that website for real?

Welcome to Chaps Hotel Blackpool. Exclusively gay men only!

yes...it is and you would have thought the anti sexual discrimination lot would have had a field day with it...  

[Guest]

@HF

Have some Candy, I have been delivering too much chaos to you recently... I do honestly agree about the No discrimination should be 2 way

@ragga
but IF you actually book do they stop you? that's the thing you can say stuff but it is not illegal until someone puts it to the test.
Maybe if everyone was sensible Gays wouldn't bother Churches and Christians wouldn't bother gays.. I cant imagine what father is going to do if they do let him stay    :      
Similarly I cant see why Gays would want to go and pray to God that hates them    

@ veya thank you very much the candy looks great...  

[Raggamuffin]

Is that website for real?

yes...it is and you would have thought the anti sexual discrimination lot would have had a field day with it...  

I really thought it was a joke at first. I still think it must be actually.   

[Guest]

yes...it is and you would have thought the anti sexual discrimination lot would have had a field day with it...  

I really thought it was a joke at first. I still think it must be actually.   

unfortunately it's serious, not sure why discrimination does not work both ways,  

[Raggamuffin]

I really thought it was a joke at first. I still think it must be actually.   

unfortunately it's serious, not sure why discrimination does not work both ways,  

I don't get why nobody has reported it then. They could make a bit of dosh out of it - like the gay chaps who reported those B&Bs.

[Guest]

unfortunately it's serious, not sure why discrimination does not work both ways,  

I don't get why nobody has reported it then. They could make a bit of dosh out of it - like the gay chaps who reported those B&Bs.

I've booked a stay there with another couple we are great friends with, it will be interesting to see how they handle it...  

[Raggamuffin]

I don't get why nobody has reported it then. They could make a bit of dosh out of it - like the gay chaps who reported those B&Bs.

I've booked a stay there with another couple we are great friends with, it will be interesting to see how they handle it...  

I presume they will be obliged to let you stay there, in which case their advertising is false.   

[Guest]

I've booked a stay there with another couple we are great friends with, it will be interesting to see how they handle it...  

I presume they will be obliged to let you stay there, in which case their advertising is false.   

I am rather hoping they refuse us access to the hotel, then the papers, news even courts cannot hide in inequality...  

[Original Quill]

Are you avoiding the point?

Hi Quill

He will not grasp what you saying but good luck trying, not sure how more easier you can make it so he can understand.
He now thinks of exceptions where somebody could be vindictive to close something down, is now a reason to HF to empower all religious people only. So they are able to discriminate against ethnic religious, homosexuals etc that differs with the nations law and thus wants to see a new form of apartheid, religious apartheid..

How long before signs are up on doors in establishments, saying who is not welcome I wonder?

Hi Didge

Yes, I see he's not a skilled debater. He is hither and yon, off arguing examples, absurd equivalencies, self-contradictions and not sticking to the point. That's the reason why I've left the thread and ignored him for the last couple of days. I see others are trying to converse with him, but they can't get past the third-grade noise, either.

How are you? Did you go missing for a couple of days? We need to get another good discussion going.

Cheers.

[Guest]

Hi Quill

He will not grasp what you saying but good luck trying, not sure how more easier you can make it so he can understand.
He now thinks of exceptions where somebody could be vindictive to close something down, is now a reason to HF to empower all religious people only. So they are able to discriminate against ethnic religious, homosexuals etc that differs with the nations law and thus wants to see a new form of apartheid, religious apartheid..

How long before signs are up on doors in establishments, saying who is not welcome I wonder?

Hi Didge

Yes, I see he's not a skilled debater.  He is hither and yon, off arguing examples, absurd equivalencies, self-contradictions and not sticking to the point.  That's the reason why I've left the thread and ignored him for the last couple of days.  I see others are trying to converse with him, but they can't get past the third-grade noise, either.

How are you?  Did you go missing for a couple of days?  We need to get another good discussion going.

Cheers.

Hi Quill

Am good thanks and hope all is well with you, just been busy of late.
Think we need a history section here, then we can throw in some good discussions.
Do you have any era's that are of interest of late you are reading?

[veya_victaous]

@HF

Have some Candy, I have been delivering too much chaos to you recently... I do honestly agree about the No discrimination should be 2 way

@ragga
but IF you actually book do they stop you? that's the thing you can say stuff but it is not illegal until someone puts it to the test.
Maybe if everyone was sensible Gays wouldn't bother Churches and Christians wouldn't bother gays.. I cant imagine what father is going to do if they do let him stay    :      
Similarly I cant see why Gays would want to go and pray to God that hates them    

So if someone put a sign on a hotel door or a hotel website saying "no blacks", that would be fine as long as they let black people stay there?

This is nothing to do with religion either, it's to do with a hotel advertising for men only, particularly gay men.

I'm pretty sure that would be the law, But for your example there may be a second anti racism law that may make that illegal. the legal system is pretty complex and not as clean cut as it should be on these issues.

It sort of does have to do with religion at least from HF as part of his gripe is that Gays sue churches. like I said I cant see why a Gay would want to go to a Church any more than HF would want to go to a gay bar. IF both sides just ignored each other they could both have their stuff and no one would miss out or actually care   

[Raggamuffin]

So if someone put a sign on a hotel door or a hotel website saying "no blacks", that would be fine as long as they let black people stay there?

This is nothing to do with religion either, it's to do with a hotel advertising for men only, particularly gay men.

I'm pretty sure that would be the law, But for your example there may be a second anti racism law that may make that illegal. the legal system is pretty complex and not as clean cut as it should be on these issues.

It sort of does have to do with religion at least from HF as part of his gripe is that Gays sue churches. like I said I cant see why a Gay would want to go to a Church any more than HF would want to go to a gay bar. IF both sides just ignored each other they could both have their stuff and no one would miss out or actually care   

What if there was a hotel which advertised itself as being exclusively for straight people? I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be allowed.

I take your point re the other stuff, but some gay people have sued B&B owners, so it should work both ways.

[veya_victaous]

@ragga
I know but thats sort of the point, No one got Sued Until they Actually denied someone. I agree If they deny because you are straight they are just as guilty of discrimination and should be sued just the same.

[Original Quill]

So if someone put a sign on a hotel door or a hotel website saying "no blacks", that would be fine as long as they let black people stay there?

This is nothing to do with religion either, it's to do with a hotel advertising for men only, particularly gay men.

I'm pretty sure that would be the law, But for your example there may be a second anti racism law that may make that illegal. the legal system is pretty complex and not as clean cut as it should be on these issues.

It sort of does have to do with religion at least from HF as part of his gripe is that Gays sue churches. like I said I cant see why a Gay would want to go to a Church any more than HF would want to go to a gay bar. IF both sides just ignored each other they could both have their stuff and no one would miss out or actually care   

In the US the public accommodation provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act make discrimination on the basis of race illegal.  However, I don't think there is any similar provision for gays.  The Supreme Court has carved out a doctrine of "suspect classifications" based upon historical discriminatees, in particular African Americans.  Under equal protection and due process provisions of the Constitution, any law that infringes on protected class members gets 'strict scrutiny,' an array of tests that make it harder for the law to survive.  Governments must show a 'compelling state interest' in order for such laws to pass.  http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Strict+Scrutiny

No case has selected gays for such exceptional treatment, unfortunately.  Thus, laws infringing on their rights face a much lighter standard: 'any reasonable basis.'  However, state after state supreme courts have been striking down such laws prohibiting mixed marriages, based upon no legitimate or reasonable state interest.  Basically, this shows how absurd such laws are as this is a much more relaxed standard of review.  It means no state can justify limiting marriages to one man and one woman under any rational, legal basis.

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