Fury as a British Army veteran WILL be charged over Bloody Sunday: Ex-soldier faces trial accused of two murders in 1972 shootings - but 16 of his comrades will NOT be prosecuted

HoratioTarr wrote:
Military veterans have slammed a decision to charge a former British soldier with the murder of two men in the Bloody Sunday shootings nearly 50 years ago.

The man, named only as 'Soldier F', is one of 17 former members of the 1st Battalion Parachute Regiment who were investigated over the violence which left 13 people dead in Londonderry in 1972.

The ex-soldier, thought to be in his 70s, faces trial for the alleged murders of James Wray and William McKinney and the alleged attempted murders of Joseph Friel, Michael Quinn, Joe Mahon and Patrick O'Donnell.

The decision to prosecute him has angered Armed Forces groups, who contrasted his treatment with the many IRA terrorists who have been let off during the peace process.

Critics probe point out that around 200 IRA fugitives, thought to be behind a series of terror attacks during the Troubles, were sent so-called 'comfort letters', assuring them they were no longer suspects.

The sixteen other British military veterans who were investigated over Bloody Sunday will not face action, it was announced this morning.  

The British government said it will support Soldier F and cover all of his legal costs, with Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson praising the 'courage and distinction' of those who fought in Northern Ireland.

But he was criticised by one of his fellow Tory MPs for failing to do enough to protect soldiers from prosecution.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6807811/One-17-British-Army-veterans-face-Bloody-Sunday-charges.html

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:
Military veterans have slammed a decision to charge a former British soldier with the murder of two men in the Bloody Sunday shootings nearly 50 years ago.

The man, named only as 'Soldier F', is one of 17 former members of the 1st Battalion Parachute Regiment who were investigated over the violence which left 13 people dead in Londonderry in 1972.

The ex-soldier, thought to be in his 70s, faces trial for the alleged murders of James Wray and William McKinney and the alleged attempted murders of Joseph Friel, Michael Quinn, Joe Mahon and Patrick O'Donnell.

The decision to prosecute him has angered Armed Forces groups, who contrasted his treatment with the many IRA terrorists who have been let off during the peace process.

Critics probe point out that around 200 IRA fugitives, thought to be behind a series of terror attacks during the Troubles, were sent so-called 'comfort letters', assuring them they were no longer suspects.

The sixteen other British military veterans who were investigated over Bloody Sunday will not face action, it was announced this morning.  

The British government said it will support Soldier F and cover all of his legal costs, with Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson praising the 'courage and distinction' of those who fought in Northern Ireland.

But he was criticised by one of his fellow Tory MPs for failing to do enough to protect soldiers from prosecution.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6807811/One-17-British-Army-veterans-face-Bloody-Sunday-charges.html

I was only ever in Northern Ireland as a journalist for a very short time, and was at all times guarded and protected by one of the fiercest bunch of Army 'minders' imaginable. In fact my only problem was that once they found out that I was ex-RAF and of  "barcode rank" they constantly took the piss...in the most good natured of ways, of course.

Now our esteemed colleague Nicko was, I understand, a Para and was in the thick of the real action, and his views on this will be far more important than mine.

But as a member and officer-holder of the Royal British Legion, I will never forgive the Northern Ireland legal authorities for allowing this witch-hunt - there is no other word for it -
to go ahead to the point at which some poor squaddie almost as old as I am (and who served his country with far greater valour) to have been singled out as the political fall guy.

It is fucking obscene.

And while I am glad that the MoD has at least undertaken to give this brave man the support he needs and to pay all his legal costs, I have one question:

Why the bloody hell did you not stop this fucking disgusting, disgraceful  harassment and victimisation of servicemen far more worthy of respect and gratitude than any self-serving, mealy-mouthed politician?

It was in your power to do so when the Good Friday Agreement - which, thank God, ended one of the most tragic chapters in the history of this country - exonerated and forgave our former IRA enemies.

To those who have played any part in the "selection" of this poor old bloke to be hung out to dry as a sop to the faux tearful buggers who a few decades ago would have celebrated his death at the hands of an IRA sniper: You bastards. You insufferable bastards. May you rot in hell.

SEXY MAMA wrote:But the point here is the Veteren doesn’t deserve to be jailed.

The people who gave him his orders do.

He was just carrying out orders.

Vintage wrote:The problem is bad things happen when people disagree and become violent, it may well have been a peaceful protest but how can we be sure what happened, there was talk of people, not in the protest crowd with guns, in any case I don't believe this was a premeditated incident maybe there were armed people there maybe someone thought there was and being jumpy, and who can blame them, fired, so others would do the same, how many times has that happened,  in any conflict, war or whatever you could call the Ireland problem. The army was sent there to save the Catholics from rioting Protestants then extremists took the opportunity to take on the army, so many people killed and maimed physically and mentally for something that could have been achieved politically.
If the IRA gets let off for what they did, which was so much more in fact, then so should the Army.

Vintage wrote:I can't find fault with what you say but there is no evidence that someone decided to kill the protestors, it was a panic reaction and reaction tend to get a life of their own no one know when to stop. It was a tragic thing to happen but so many events conspired to cause what happened, imagine being there and even having the slightest hint - correct or not that there were gunmen around, no one wants to die so you react
perhaps wrongly. All I can say is that events real or otherwise
came together and caused the deaths of those people, the soldiers were there for a purpose and things went very wrong but they cannot be blamed for a split second wrong decision
that continued due to fear, training I don't know what.
I just think its very wrong to blame one side and go after one person for this, there was wrong everywhere and if one side is pardoned for what they did, even though we hold ourselves to a higher standard, its too late now to with hold that standard
under the circumstances.

Vintage wrote:Again I can't really disagree with what you say but in a war situation you are acting generally to - agreed conditions, there war crimes can be reasonably identified, when you are a regular fighting unit in conflict with people who have no holds barred things can get difficult to use standards of war, people are people flawed as they are even when fully trained in 'regular' warfare. If the IRA were held to the same standards I wouldn't have so many objections to this. The Paras made a huge mistake on that day and compounded it, the IRA made deliberate planned decisions that led to so many men, women and children killed and maimed, where is the call for them to stand and answer for their actions. No, until that happens this is not justice.

Raggamuffin wrote:They should re-arrest all IRA suspects and put them on trial, including those they let out early. Weren't many of those at the march IRA sympathisers?

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:They should re-arrest all IRA suspects and put them on trial, including those they let out early. Weren't many of those at the march IRA sympathisers?

Exoneration and early release of people who were, not to put too fine a point on it terrorists, were, of course, the basis of the Good Friday accord.

The terms now appear to be applied with the specific intention of finding a British Army scapegoat in order to placate Republican sentiment at a time when the power-sharing legislature is no longer functioning and there are increasingly serious implications for the province of a Brexit no-deal situation.

It is also interesting to note that some contributions to this discussion fail to observe that the soldier in question is fully entitled to be regarded as being innocent until proven guilty by a properly qualified judge and jury, and not by a bunch of uninformed commentators.

Fourteen people died: thirteen were killed outright, while the death of another man four months later was attributed to his injuries. Many of the victims were shot while fleeing from the soldiers and some were shot while trying to help the wounded. Other protesters were injured by rubber bullets or batons, and two were run down by army vehicles

The Saville Inquiry, chaired by Lord Saville of Newdigate, was established in 1998 to reinvestigate the incident. Following a 12-year inquiry, Saville's report was made public in 2010 and concluded that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's stupid to wait this long and then suddenly decide to prosecute. Perhaps this will stir it all up again, and those who decided to drag it all up again will have blood on their hands. I hope they have sleepless nights thinking about the murdering IRA bastards who were let off.

nicko wrote:You forgot to mention that an IRA Sniper was seen firing from the Divis flats,  it's entirely possible that he shot his own countrymen to put the blame on the British Soldiers, seems unbelievable,.   but these scum would stop at nothing.  If your so clever,  find out what calibre Bullets were removed from the two Civilians.  British used 7.62 calibre , it was said that the civilians had 5.56 calibre removed from them .  The Ira had Armalites firing that Bullet.

phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's stupid to wait this long and then suddenly decide to prosecute. Perhaps this will stir it all up again, and those who decided to drag it all up again will have blood on their hands. I hope they have sleepless nights thinking about the murdering IRA bastards who were let off.

So the families looking for and have been calling for justice, have now blood on their hands?

Really?

What have they got to do with IRA terrorists that got let off by the British Governement?

Raggamuffin wrote:

phildidge wrote:

So the families looking for and have been calling for justice, have now blood on their hands?

Really?

What have they got to do with IRA terrorists that got let off by the British Governement?

I mean whoever decided to prosecute - obviously. It was decided, without the consent of the victims of the IRA, that all was fair in NI, as long as you were a terrorist of course. It's just sick to let them all off and prosecute a soldier after all these years. TBH, I wish NI would just eff off altogether.

phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I mean whoever decided to prosecute - obviously. It was decided, without the consent of the victims of the IRA, that all was fair in NI, as long as you were a terrorist of course. It's just sick to let them all off and prosecute a soldier after all these years. TBH, I wish NI would just eff off altogether.

The families have been calling for justice for fourty years and what has this got to do with the victims of the IRA?

They are not even connected

To be honest more than one should be prosecuted

If you want to blame someone for the IRA getting let off, then blame the British Governement

As they were the ones that did this with the Good friday agreement

Raggamuffin wrote:

phildidge wrote:

The families have been calling for justice for fourty years and what has this got to do with the victims of the IRA?

They are not even connected

To be honest more than one should be prosecuted

If you want to blame someone for the IRA getting let off, then blame the British Governement

As they were the ones that did this with the Good friday agreement

I do blame the British Government for that. I also blame them for not dealing with the issue of other "crimes". If they let off the IRA scum, they should have let off any soldiers too.

You are beginning to sound like an IRA sympathiser though - as nicko said. If you can't see the connection, that's your problem.

Raggamuffin wrote:I have no time for IRA sympathisers, so I will not be debating this issue with you any more.

Raggamuffin wrote:I bet they can't prove he killed those particular men, and he gets acquitted. I certainly hope so.

phildidge wrote:

nicko wrote:You forgot to mention that an IRA Sniper was seen firing from the Divis flats,  it's entirely possible that he shot his own countrymen to put the blame on the British Soldiers, seems unbelievable,.   but these scum would stop at nothing.  If your so clever,  find out what calibre Bullets were removed from the two Civilians.  British used 7.62 calibre , it was said that the civilians had 5.56 calibre removed from them .  The Ira had Armalites firing that Bullet.

The Saville Inquiry, chaired by Lord Saville of Newdigate, was established in 1998 to reinvestigate the incident. Following a 12-year inquiry, Saville's report was made public in 2010 and concluded that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing.

Tommy Monk wrote:

phildidge wrote:

The Saville Inquiry, chaired by Lord Saville of Newdigate, was established in 1998 to reinvestigate the incident. Following a 12-year inquiry, Saville's report was made public in 2010 and concluded that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing.

That didn't answer Nickos question about the alleged IRA sniper... or that two of the victims had allegedly been shot with a different calibre size of bullets, than that which the British forces were armed with on that day... but were of the type that the IRA were known to use...!?