Educational Thread On Global Warming

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Climate change will push millions from their homes. Where will they go?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xuZT7VkjVg


What if Carbon Emissions Stopped Tomorrow?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kX9xKGeEw


Why Are Hurricanes Getting Stronger?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E1Nt7JQRzc

[Guest]

not to mention THAT

unless we turn off all power, stop all industry
and go back to the stone age.........good luck with selling THAT on the street......ITS TOO LATE....

renewables in the main are as bad as fossil fuels...solar requires expensive  high carbon footprint solar cells
wind and sea...requires complex large carbon footprint machines that are both expensive and unreliable,,,,,

so.....

even if we curtail the use of fossil fuels.......(how? public transport wont work over most of the globe and would require draconian enforcement and revolution)  it would take 20-30 years to get it anywhertte near under control IN THE WEST    the developing world would collapse since teh west would descend into poverty and not but anything   ......

SO instead of wasting time money and carbon footprints on pointless meetings and wailings...how about we do something revolutionary

the climate scientists seem to be able to predict the future so well they are only 10's of years out of date so...lets take their worst case scenario for warming......and PREPARE for it  

[Victorismyhero]

yes he did.....

he missed the point, not about how much the tilt of the earth changes but WHEN in the cycle it moves from north facing the sun in summer at the greatest distance (coldest) to north facing the sun at nearest in summer (warmest)

[Guest]

yes he did.....

he missed the point, not about how much the tilt of the earth changes but WHEN in the cycle it moves from north facing the sun in summer at the greatest distance (coldest) to north facing the sun at nearest in summer (warmest)

No he never mate, that is a feeble claim and if you want you can contact on his page and ask him

That is you speculating he never took this into account

Rememeber this was simple a rebutal to points made by Patrick Moore. the point of which was to show the basics

[Victorismyhero]

not to mention THAT

unless we turn off all power, stop all industry
and go back to the stone age.........good luck with selling THAT on the street......ITS TOO LATE....

renewables in the main are as bad as fossil fuels...solar requires expensive  high carbon footprint solar cells
wind and sea...requires complex large carbon footprint machines that are both expensive and unreliable,,,,,

so.....

even if we curtail the use of fossil fuels.......(how? public transport wont work over most of the globe and would require draconian enforcement and revolution)  it would take 20-30 years to get it anywhertte near under control IN THE WEST    the developing world would collapse since teh west would descend into poverty and not but anything   ......

SO instead of wasting time money and carbon footprints on pointless meetings and wailings...how about we do something revolutionary

the climate scientists seem to be able to predict the future so well they are only 10's of years out of date so...lets take their worst case scenario for warming......and PREPARE for it  

where does he think the solar cells are going to come from?? the energy to mine the materials (not just sand you know) the energy to actually make them (massive) and the energy to transport them to the user?

same with all the other so called green techs

YES I think in reality they are good.....longer term they certainly DO make cleaner energy, AND they allow a certain "energy independence" to the indiviodual.......but they ARE not the magic bullet

however good sense dictates that if I have 10KW/ hr of solar power available and I use it to run my vehicle the savings on CO2 will be very high

BUT itys STILL going to take YEARS to get anywhere near that point.....electric cars are for the most expensive and pointless toys with bog all power to cost ratio sod all range and zero pulling power.....and it will take donkeys years for the infrastructure needed to be installed in any case....

[Guest]

Look Victor, i certainly do not think i am an expert on climate change, but at least have the bases of a scientific understanding of this.

If the guy you presented is right, then people would be testing his claims, because science never shies away from many different hypothesis. If he turned out to be true, then climate scientists would not shy away from the many variable factors. Even more so climate skpetics would do so even more.

If his hypoethesis has value, then it requires further studying and testing. Personally, I dont think he has factored the levels of CO2 and its known changes through earths history. 

Hence why its all very good presenting ideas, but they have to discount many known variables and data already known.

[Guest]

where does he think the solar cells are going to come from?? the energy to mine the materials (not just sand you know) the energy to actually make them (massive) and the energy to transport them to the user?

same with all the other so called green techs

YES I think in reality they are good.....longer term they certainly DO make cleaner energy, AND they allow a certain "energy independence" to the indiviodual.......but they ARE not the magic bullet

however good sense dictates that if I have 10KW/ hr of solar power available and I use it to run my vehicle  the savings on CO2 will be very high

BUT itys STILL going to take YEARS to get anywhere near that point.....electric cars are for the most expensive and pointless toys with bog all power to cost ratio sod all range and zero pulling power.....and it will take donkeys years for the infrastructure needed to be installed in any case....

We are starting to have an effect , but also have to face the fact we will still face problems for thousands of years

https://www.edie.net/news/6/UK-carbon-emissions-fall-for-record-sixth-year-in-2018/

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-carbon-emissions-at-lowest-level-since-days-of-jack-the-ripper-11654997

[Victorismyhero]

yup...that I dont deny....

but instead of focusing on doom and gloom, lets deal with what we know is likely and get ready for it

[Tommy Monk]

Can any of you tell me what you think "normal" temperatures are...!?


And... what makes you think that you know better than the giant sequoia trees in west USA...?


That can each live for up to 3000 years... and have evolved over millions of years, and have adapted to what "normal" conditions are for that part of the world...!?

[Guest]

yup...that I dont deny....

but instead of focusing on doom and gloom, lets deal with what we know is likely and get ready for it  

Actually i agree on dealing with what we know and how to put in place measures to get ready for this

Its the one biggest gripes I have with this mate

Where is the future contingency with all of this for the future of humanity and life itself?

Maybe that is why we are seeing a new moon space race?????

[Guest]

Can any of you tell me what you think "normal" temperatures are...!?


And... what makes you think that you know better than the giant sequoia trees in west USA...?


That can each live for up to 3000 years... and have evolved over millions of years, and have adapted to what "normal" conditions are for that part of the world...!?

That is called evolution and the ability to adpat is it not Tommy with these trees?

The biggest point you need, to ask is why only in the US, have these trees been able to adapt?

Why also with sharks for millions of years?

The point you should be asking. Is whether humans can adapt to levels of higher tempreture, which would see a devastation to most of the plant life and species

[Tommy Monk]

But you think that temps are higher now than has been for hundreds of thousands of years...!!!


When in reality... the temps now are actually good for the giant sequoia trees to carry on surviving...!


So... the temps now... are what the sequoia trees are normally used to experiencing... ie, normal for what we should all expect to be seeing!!!

[Victorismyhero]

normal is a much misused word
do you mean "normal for us humans
normal for the earth
normal as in average over time?

the only thing "normal" about the earths climate is that change is normal

whether or not that "normal is "good" for us" is another matter, and is partly the point of that post I made elsewhere....

IF normal is warmer then wtf??? that means that normal is florida under 80 ft of water
if normal is much colder then normal is a mile of ice over manhatten


there is NOTHING to say that the climate we DESIRE is normal in any way, Indeed there is good evidence it isnt......however since we are in such a benign period it seems a bit daft to contribute to it changing to one that is uncomfortably warmer.....

and this is where these climate scientists had better have got it right becasue...IF we are about to tip into an ice age then it would be equally as daft to stop the very warming that would either stave off or mitigate/prevent said ice age..

[Tommy Monk]

normal is a much misused word
do you mean "normal for us humans
normal for the earth
normal as in average over time?

the only thing "normal" about the earths climate is  that change is normal

whether or not that "normal is "good" for us" is another matter, and is partly the point of that post I made elsewhere....

IF normal is warmer then wtf??? that means that normal is florida under 80 ft of water
if normal is much colder then normal is a mile of ice over manhatten


there is NOTHING to say that the climate we DESIRE is normal in any way, Indeed there is good evidence it isnt......however since we are in such a benign period it seems a bit daft to contribute to it changing to one that is uncomfortably warmer.....

and this is where these climate scientists had better have got it right becasue...IF we are about to tip into an ice age then it would be equally as daft to stop the very warming that would either stave off or mitigate/prevent said ice age..

Current temps are the long term normal... otherwise the sequoia trees would never have existed at all...!!!

[Victorismyhero]

sequoias are a tommy distraction, they can thrive in anything from near freezing to quite warm as long as they have sufficient water

[Victorismyhero]

sequoias are a tommy distraction, they can thrive in anything from near freezing to quite warm as long as they have sufficient water

[Guest]

But you think that temps are higher now than has been for hundreds of thousands of years...!!!


When in reality... the temps now are actually good for the giant sequoia trees to carry on surviving...!


So... the temps now... are what the sequoia trees are normally used to experiencing... ie, normal for what we should all expect to be seeing!!!

Okay Tommy, why have we seen in the past mass extinctions from where tempretures became too high, due to high levels of CO2?

All you are claiming is based off a small period and one we have not seen the full effect of today

We know the full effects over time of millions of years and humans modern humans have only lived for a few hundred thousand years

Your whole argument hinges on ome single tree species, that has adpated and survied through time

Just as have sharks

So your argument is really ridiculous, when we know the vast majority of other species died out

We even know all other human species have died out

Or did you not factor that?

Its well believed that climate change and the last know big extinction of species during the Quaternary extinction. This event lasted over a hundred thousands years between 130,000 and to 8,000 BC, the majority happening between 11,000 and 8,000 BC.

If many other human species died, like the Neannderthal in this time frame. They clearly were unable to adpat to climate change and we actually do know of a big claimate change in this period. One that saw a rapid melting of the ice caps, that flooded lower regions, to the extent we now have an English channel

[Victorismyhero]

anyhoo...I'm off to bed...sleep well didge and tommy....and NO BITING or KICKING

[Guest]

I mean you cannot offer a better argument to show how deadly climate change is for humanoid species, being as they all died out except for humans. We were the only ones that could adapt from a very original cold ice age. Which rapidly receeded, then had a remission and then a very rapid melting. That saw sea levels rise dramatically.

You want to ignore this damning evidence at your peril Tommy, as again, it was a warming of the planet through CO2

The question is, can humans survive another dramatic climate change?

[Guest]

anyhoo...I'm off to bed...sleep well didge and tommy....and NO BITING or KICKING

Night mate, am off to bed too

Sleep well

[Tommy Monk]

Evidence shows that warmer periods are the cause of higher CO2 levels... not the other way round...!


And... the sequoia trees have evolved to actually require local forest fires so as their seedlings can survive and for them to continue to exist as a species... and they have also developed a resistance to these same fires!!!


These trees have been around for millions of years!!!

[Guest]

So Tommy simple dodges everything both Lord Foul and I have said.
Then reverts to default Tommybot knows nothing about science mode..

[Tommy Monk]

Didge... it's you who keeps dodging my points!!!

[Guest]

No Tommy, you always try to control the debate, by dodging countless questions

So this is what will happen now

Dont expect people to con tinue to engage in debate, if you constantly avoid points or questions

So the ball is now in your court on any future debate, as not going to waste time with your antics

All the best

[Tommy Monk]

No Tommy, you always try to control the debate, by dodging countless questions

So this is what will happen now

Dont expect people to con tinue to engage in debate, if you constantly avoid points or questions

So the ball is now in your court on any future debate, as not going to waste time with your antics

All the best

That's a bit rich, coming from you, dodge...!!!

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