Vulnerable youngsters rushed into treatment. Staff too nervous to speak out: After resigning from controversial Tavistock gender clinic trust, a former governor says he fears we're hurrying children down a transgender path they may bitterly regret

SEXY MAMA wrote:The service was accused of being too quick to give children and young people medical treatment (hormone-blocking drugs).

I totally agree with that part.  Everything is being shrugged off with drugs instead of properly examing the issue which might be of a mental state  and needs a different approach.

Eilzel wrote:Even at 18 I didn't know what direction I wanted my life to go in. I didn't immediately go to university for that reason. At 16 I had just about accepted I was at least bisexual, it would be a few more years before I accepted what I really was. Prior to that I was just messing around and not really taking life seriously.

I've no idea what others remember of their early, mid or late teens. Maybe they were fully matured and had everything figured out. But no way on this earth is that the majority.

Teens are filled with new ideas and no real sense of certainty about so many things. They aren't allowed to smoke, drive, have sex or get married until certain points in their late teens.

So why the fuck should we be allowed anyone to start anything like this before adulthood. Even at 18 they should be made to wait 2 years, to realise this IS what they want without any doubt.

smelly-bandit wrote:It's also funny how everyone is suddenly in agreement with me

SEXY MAMA wrote:The service was accused of being too quick to give children and young people medical treatment (hormone-blocking drugs).

I totally agree with that part.  Everything is being shrugged off with drugs instead of properly examing the issue which might be of a mental state  and needs a different approach.

Eilzel wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:It's also funny how everyone is suddenly in agreement with me

No one here has ever agreed with giving drugs to minors to help them transition. Most us want equal rights for trans people, that's it.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

No one here has ever agreed with giving drugs to minors to help them transition. Most us want equal rights for trans people, that's it.

That's always been the position of the Liberal left.

I have always maintained that transgenderism is a misunderstood misdiagnosed mental illness and instead of pushing these vulnerable people into life changing irreversible chemical and physical surgery, perhaps we should take the time to understand the illness and maybe come up with a better less brutalising more reliable solution.

And what was yours and others overwhelming screeching response??

Words to the effect of

"you're a Transphobic nazi who wants to murder all trans people"

smelly-bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:It's also funny how everyone is suddenly in agreement with me

No one here has ever agreed with giving drugs to minors to help them transition. Most us want equal rights for trans people, that's it.

That's always been the position of the Liberal left.

I have always maintained that transgenderism is a misunderstood misdiagnosed mental illness and instead of pushing these vulnerable people into life changing irreversible chemical and physical surgery, perhaps we should take the time to understand the illness and maybe come up with a better less brutalising more reliable solution.

And what was yours and others overwhelming screeching response??

Words to the effect of

"you're a Transphobic nazi who wants to murder all trans people"

Eilzel wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

That's always been the position of the Liberal left.

I have always maintained that transgenderism is a misunderstood misdiagnosed mental illness and instead of pushing these vulnerable people into life changing irreversible chemical and physical surgery, perhaps we should take the time to understand the illness and maybe come up with a better less brutalising more reliable solution.

And what was yours and others overwhelming screeching response??

Words to the effect of

"you're a Transphobic nazi who wants to murder all trans people"

It isn't a mental illness. You really do read what you want to into things, don't you?

If I say "I support gay rights", you interpret that as: "OMFG you want LGBT people to take over the world and force churches to marry people to their cats and swallow semen with every meal - you disgusting OMFGKSDOENVNVSDG!"

In reality - no screeching, no claims of wanting to murder anyone, no calling anyone a nazi...

But it isn't a mental illness. We only (ONLY) agree on not giving drugs to minors who think they are a different gender. You bloody lunatic.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It isn't a mental illness. You really do read what you want to into things, don't you?

If I say "I support gay rights", you interpret that as: "OMFG you want LGBT people to take over the world and force churches to marry people to their cats and swallow semen with every meal - you disgusting OMFGKSDOENVNVSDG!"

In reality - no screeching, no claims of wanting to murder anyone, no calling anyone a nazi...

But it isn't a mental illness. We only (ONLY) agree on not giving drugs to minors who think they are a different gender. You bloody lunatic.

When you say you support "gay rights", what else should I be thinking?? Especially when you openly said to me in past conversation something along the lines of "religious rights can take a fucking back seat to gay rights"

If I said I supported "white rights" you would immediately call me a racist and accuse me of wanting to deport/murder all black people.

And we both know that to be true.

At least now we know you don't support EQUAL rights for all but gay rights for gays only, making you a homosupremacist.

you would immediately call me a racist and accuse me of wanting to deport/murder all black people.

And we both know that to be true.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

That's always been the position of the Liberal left.

I have always maintained that transgenderism is a misunderstood misdiagnosed mental illness and instead of pushing these vulnerable people into life changing irreversible chemical and physical surgery, perhaps we should take the time to understand the illness and maybe come up with a better less brutalising more reliable solution.

And what was yours and others overwhelming screeching response??

Words to the effect of

"you're a Transphobic nazi who wants to murder all trans people"

It isn't a mental illness. You really do read what you want to into things, don't you?

If I say "I support gay rights", you interpret that as: "OMFG you want LGBT people to take over the world and force churches to marry people to their cats and swallow semen with every meal - you disgusting OMFGKSDOENVNVSDG!"

In reality - no screeching, no claims of wanting to murder anyone, no calling anyone a nazi...

But it isn't a mental illness. We only (ONLY) agree on not giving drugs to minors who think they are a different gender. You bloody lunatic.

When you say you support "gay rights", what else should I be thinking?? Especially when you openly said to me in past conversation something along the lines of "religious rights can take a fucking back seat to gay rights"

If I said I supported "white rights" you would immediately call me a racist and accuse me of wanting to deport/murder all black people.

And we both know that to be true.

At least now we know you don't support EQUAL rights for all but gay rights for gays only, making you a homosupremacist.

Eilzel wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

When you say you support "gay rights", what else should I be thinking?? Especially when you openly said to me in past conversation something along the lines of "religious rights can take a fucking back seat to gay rights"

If I said I supported "white rights" you would immediately call me a racist and accuse me of wanting to deport/murder all black people.

And we both know that to be true.

At least now we know you don't support EQUAL rights for all but gay rights for gays only, making you a homosupremacist.

See what I mean? Making it all up as you go along. Sorry people aren't saying what you want them to say, smelly

veya_victaous wrote:

you would immediately call me a racist and accuse me of wanting to deport/murder all black people.

And we both know that to be true.

we all know that's true smelly

that's the difference, Gays right activists are normally pushing for equal rights to heterosexuals.
'white rights' activists are normally pushing to deport/murder all black people.

Daily Mail wrote:The transgender equality agenda has advanced through Britain’s institutions with extraordinary speed. In a few years, promoting ‘trans rights’ has become central to healthcare, policing, education and the law, raising many troubling questions.

The only thing more extraordinary than the rapid spread of this new orthodoxy is how little scrutiny it has faced and the aggressive intolerance directed towards those who question it. During a Westminster career which began as a junior Commons researcher 25 years ago, I have never encountered a movement that has spread so swiftly and successfully, and has so fiercely rejected any challenge to its orthodoxy. The lack of scrutiny has led to a new disturbing reality in which women have been sexually assaulted in prison by trans inmates, trans athletes increasingly compete as females, children transition rapidly, and women suffer vitriolic abuse for standing up for their rights.

Possibly the most troubling aspect of this story is how so many politicians have failed to challenge a movement whose agenda they know can infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. By looking the other way and keeping quiet, MPs have allowed a small group of activists to set the agenda and even write policies, without anyone ever consulting or even informing the public. Last week, however, there were encouraging signs that common sense is entering the debate. That is long overdue and much needed. Perhaps the most significant sign that there has been a shift in the debate is the division around LGBT group Stonewall.

It has been instrumental in lending legitimacy to the trans agenda, bringing lobbying skill, financial clout and moral force to bear: after all, what decent person wants to be accused of intolerance by champions of gay equality?

Stonewall has been pushing for a change in legislation to allow people to self-identify their gender. In other words, any man could legally become a woman (and vice versa), without the need for verification from medics. But this has been contentious within LGBT circles and it appears the trans lobby’s hold on Stonewall might just be weakening. Some donors are deserting, the CEO has quit and leading gay equality campaigners are going public with their doubts about its adoption of the trans agenda. Even Simon Fanshawe, a co-founder of the group, has condemned its ‘extreme’ position following its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

Meanwhile, in the political sphere, the word in Whitehall is that Penny Mordaunt, the Equalities Minister, is starting to have doubts about changing the law to allow people to self-identify their sex. Responses to a Government consultation on those reforms showed opposition from women in every part of Britain, other than a few very small clusters in London and a few university towns. Tories who once saw the trans agenda as a way to modernise and reach out to young voters now realise things are more complicated than that.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6765249/JAMES-KIRKUP-Britain-FINALLY-coming-senses-transgender-madness.html

One problem with the current mainstream narrative regarding gender dysphoria is that it makes no distinctions among apparently very different kinds of persons. For example, Bruce Jenner appeared to be a very masculine man, an Olympic athlete who was married to three different women and had six children with them, before becoming Caitlyn Jenner. In contrast, Jazz Jennings, a natal male, was so feminine that she earned a diagnosis of gender identity disorder at the age of four. She is attracted to males. Jenner and Jennings are so different in their presentation and history that it is surprising to us that anyone thinks they have the same condition. Jenner and Jennings are examples of two very different kinds of gender dysphoria that have been scientifically well studied, and have fundamentally different motivations, clinical presentations, and likely causes.

The failure of so many therapists and activists to acknowledge this distinction is disturbing for at least two reasons. First, it suggests they are either ignorant of relevant scientific evidence or are purposefully ignoring it. Second, failure to make scientifically valid and fundamental distinctions among different kinds of gender dysphoric persons can only prevent progress toward finding the best approach to helping each. Measles, influenza, and strep throat are all associated with fever. But if we had merely lumped them together as “fever,” we would not have effective treatments for them.

Types of Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria isn’t common. But there are at least three distinct types of gender dysphoria that, presently, regularly occur in children and adolescents. We summarize these at length here. Two other kinds of gender dysphoria are much less common in these age groups, and so we address them less fully near the end of this essay. The main three types differ in their age of onset (childhood, adolescence, or adulthood), their speed of onset (gradual or sudden), their associated sexual orientations (members of the same sex or the fantasy of belonging to the opposite sex), and their sex ratio (equally or unequally likely in males and females).

The first type—childhood-onset gender dysphoria—definitely occurs in both biological boys and girls. It is highly correlated with homosexuality–the sexual preference for one’s own biological sex–especially in natal males. (Sexual orientation is usually not apparent until a child reaches adolescence or adulthood, however.) This is the type that Jazz Jennings had before her gender transition. The second type—autogynephilic gender dysphoria—occurs only in males. It is associated with a tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of oneself as a female. This type of gender dysphoria sometimes starts during adolescence and sometimes during adulthood, and its onset is typically gradual. (Onset may appear sudden to family members, however.) Although Caitlyn Jenner has not discussed her feelings openly, we strongly suspect she is autogynephilic. The third type—rapid-onset gender dysphoria—mostly occurs in adolescent girls. This type is primarily characterized by the age and speed of onset rather than the associated sexual orientation, and it may not be limited to one sex, as the second type is. Our impression is that rapid-onset gender dysphoria is especially common among daughters of parents who read 4thWaveNow as well as those who post on the support board at gendercriticalresources.com.

The first two types (childhood-onset gender dysphoria and autogynephilic gender dysphoria) have been well studied, although autogynephilic gender dysphoria has primarily been studied in adults. The third (rapid-onset gender dysphoria) has only recently been noticed, and it is possible that it didn’t occur much until recently.

How do you know which type of gender dysphoria your child has? If there were clear signs well before puberty that your child was gender dysphoric, s/he has child-onset gender dysphoria. (You would certainly have noticed signs at the time; at the very least you would have coded your child as extremely gender nonconforming.) If your child showed signs of gender dysphoria for the first time during adolescence, s/he has one of the other types. Remember, autogynephilic gender dysphoria occurs only in natal males, and it starts either during adolescence or adulthood. (And to a parent, it usually seems sudden.) We describe the three types more thoroughly below.

https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Raggamuffin wrote:Why is this now about gay people? This gender dysphoria business is a different issue.

I do think that unless there are underlying issues with chromosomes/genes, then wanting to be a different gender may well be a psychological issue - not necessarily a mental illness, but it's not normal, and the answer is not to give young people treatment in the form of hormones or hormone blockers.

smelly b wrote:Transgenderism is a mental illness that is not yet understood and yet instead of attempting to understand we indulge the delusional fantasy brought on by the sickness.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly b wrote:Transgenderism is a mental illness that is not yet understood and yet instead of attempting to understand we indulge the delusional fantasy brought on by the sickness.

Rather like conservatism in that regard.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Rather like conservatism in that regard.

More like trump derangement syndrome which has infected the Liberal left

Jussie smollet is a liberal who attack himself and then blamed imaginary assailants, and still maintains these phantom attackers are real.

That is what I would call a delusional fantasy

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

More like trump derangement syndrome which has infected the Liberal left

Jussie smollet is a liberal who attack himself and then blamed imaginary assailants, and still maintains these phantom attackers are real.

That is what I would call a delusional fantasy

We were talking about mental illness.  Are you sure you want to claim that for the Trumpsters and the Trump criminal family?

I mean, it does get them off for their many crimes...but it sure doesn't leave them in a healthy position to govern.  

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

We were talking about mental illness.  Are you sure you want to claim that for the Trumpsters and the Trump criminal family?

I mean, it does get them off for their many crimes...but it sure doesn't leave them in a healthy position to govern.  

Again you provide another example of trump derangement syndrome at work.

You create a fictional reality in which orange man bad in every instance, and in many cases you have to create orange man bad scenarios.

The is no correlation between your delusional fantasy and reality.

You are neo taking the blue pill and going back into the matrix construct

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Again you provide another example of trump derangement syndrome at work.

You create a fictional reality in which orange man bad in every instance, and in many cases you have to create orange man bad scenarios.

The is no correlation between your delusional fantasy and reality.

You are neo taking the blue pill and going back into the matrix construct

Denial is a river in east Africa, Russ.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why is this now about gay people? This gender dysphoria business is a different issue.

I do think that unless there are underlying issues with chromosomes/genes, then wanting to be a different gender may well be a psychological issue - not necessarily a mental illness, but it's not normal, and the answer is not to give young people treatment in the form of hormones or hormone blockers.

do the cheerleaders like elizel care?? not a single fuck does he give, all he cares about is snipping and zipping as many trans folk as posssible because he thinks its a good way to stick two fingers up to the "right wing" he is too busy playing identity politics with these peoples lives that he doesnt care about the long term damage they receive.

the one thing you will never see from the cheerleader squad are atricles about trans people who have undergone the change and then regret it and then try to come out and warn other young people to take caution.

plenty of those unfortunates around and yet the cheerleaders would sooner stuff them in the closet than give them the time of day.

gelico wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:



do the cheerleaders like elizel care?? not a single fuck does he give, all he cares about is snipping and zipping as many trans folk as posssible because he thinks its a good way to stick two fingers up to the "right wing" he is too busy playing identity politics with these peoples lives that he doesnt care about the long term damage they receive.

the one thing you will never see from the cheerleader squad are atricles about trans people who have undergone the change and then regret it and then try to come out and warn other young people to take caution.

plenty of those unfortunates around and yet the cheerleaders would sooner stuff them in the closet than give them the time of day.

hi smelly, glad you decided to return here

but have to say i think this post is unfair to les

he just wrote above,,,,

''Even at 18 they should be made to wait 2 years, to realise this IS what they want without any doubt''.


sounds to me like he's advising caution, no?

SEXY MAMA wrote:The service was accused of being too quick to give children and young people medical treatment (hormone-blocking drugs).

I totally agree with that part.  Everything is being shrugged off with drugs instead of properly examing the issue which might be of a mental state  and needs a different approach.

eddie wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:The service was accused of being too quick to give children and young people medical treatment (hormone-blocking drugs).

I totally agree with that part.  Everything is being shrugged off with drugs instead of properly examing the issue which might be of a mental state  and needs a different approach.

If I’m correct, the part of the brain that can make rational decisions doesn’t kick in properly until one reaches the age of about 21.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:The service was accused of being too quick to give children and young people medical treatment (hormone-blocking drugs).

I totally agree with that part.  Everything is being shrugged off with drugs instead of properly examing the issue which might be of a mental state  and needs a different approach.

If I’m correct, the part of the brain that can make rational decisions doesn’t kick in properly until one reaches the age of about 21.

Where on earth did you hear that?