'Look at how thin his legs are, he can't stand up': Children of Isil dying from cold and hunger in the last days of the caliphate

The screams were coming from the back of the heavy green lorry stopped on the side of Road 47.

Two women in black niqabs stood in the trailer, crying out from behind the black veils which hid their faces. One held a bundled-up green and blue blanket.

It was only when she leaned over the edge of the truck that a pale face could be seen in the blanket folds. The ten-month-old girl was named Habiba. She died in the back of the lorry the day before, the women said.

The girl’s mother, a jihadist’s wife from the suburbs of Aleppo, cradled her body all night as the convoy of trucks rumbled towards the Kurdish-run refugee camp where she would be buried.

Even as they mourned over Habiba, the women said they were afraid for her two-year-old brother, who lay weakly a few feet from his dead sister. “Look how thin his legs are, he can’t stand up. He’s going to die if he stays like this.”

Habiba and around 80 other children have died in less than two months amid the chaos of the Islamic State’s collapse in eastern Syria, according to the UN. Hypothermia was the main killer.

Most of the children were born inside the caliphate but did not live long enough to see life outside it. They died during the journey from Isil’s final territory in the village of Baghuz or soon after reaching the camps where the families of jihadist fighters are being housed.

While the world debates the crimes of their parents, the children of the Islamic State are bearing the brunt of the misery.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/28/look-thin-legs-cant-stand-children-isil-die-cold-hunger-last/

and....I suppose thats "our" fault and that "we" should do something about it?
There are worthier causes than nurturing the next generation of murderers

Lord Foul wrote:and....I suppose thats "our" fault and that "we" should do something about it?
There are worthier causes than nurturing the next generation of murderers

Who blamed anyone here?

To me, the most blame should be seen at the parents and ISIS themselves for the plight of these kids

The fact you just made these kids criminals based off their parents is what I find poor to say the least

Its not based on rational thinking but again emotions  that have a subconscious bias

So why did we rebuild Germany and Japan, who's nations committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in history

Do you think that was a mistake?

Okay let me allow a pro life argument to show how poor your argument here is Victor

This is about baby Hitler

I have respect for Ben, even though I do not agree with all his views and even more so on abortion

Thor wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and....I suppose thats "our" fault and that "we" should do something about it?
There are worthier causes than nurturing the next generation of murderers

Who blamed anyone here?

To me, the most blame should be seen at the parents and ISIS themselves for the plight of these kids

The fact you just made these kids criminals based off their parents is what I find poor to say the least

Its not based on rational thinking but again emotions  that have a subconscious bias

So why did we rebuild Germany and Japan, who's nations committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in history

Do you think that was a mistake?

NO...because we rebuilt them in the image of what we wanted them to be...peaceful prosperous western nations.....
However there is NO prospect of doing that where ISIL is concerned, firstly they are not a nation and secondly they are not amenable to being turned from their interpretation of whatever it is trhat drives them

Lord Foul wrote:

Thor wrote:

Who blamed anyone here?

To me, the most blame should be seen at the parents and ISIS themselves for the plight of these kids

The fact you just made these kids criminals based off their parents is what I find poor to say the least

Its not based on rational thinking but again emotions  that have a subconscious bias

So why did we rebuild Germany and Japan, who's nations committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in history

Do you think that was a mistake?

NO...because we rebuilt them in the image of what we wanted them to be...peaceful prosperous western nations.....
However there is NO prospect of doing that where ISIL is concerned, firstly they are not a nation and secondly they are not amenable to being turned from their interpretation of whatever it is trhat drives them

But many of them still held extreme and hateful beliefs after we defeated Germany and Japan

If we used your thinking today for back then, can you see yourself as not arguing the same against defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Of course you would, as you cannot think outside of a fear based view, where you do not see a light at the end of the tunnel

In both cases, such ideologies were near eradicated, were they not in each country

Of course people like you did hold such views back them. There was something called the Morgenthau Plan for Germany.

Do you know what that was?

Simple point, can people change yes or no?

Are people who have been former terrorists now people outspoken against such ideologies.

Yes or no?

The reality is that is not even the point made

You hav criminalised children, based off what their parents did

Show me what law we use here in the Uk, that criminalizes children, based off the criminal acts of their parents?

the amount of fucks I give about those whores would not fill up the eye of a needle. they chose to join a bloodthirsty death cult, they can live with the consequence. they should be forced to beg forgiveness from the yazidis and kurds, syrians and iraqi's who's lifes they made hell. they should be forced, like those who lived near the concentrations camps in the war, were made to see the horror, to help excavate the mass graves. 10 or 15 years giving back to the people they destroyed may go a little way to making up for what they did.

Thor wrote:Okay let me allow a pro life argument to show how poor your argument here is Victor

This is about baby Hitler

I have respect for Ben, even though I do not agree with all his views and even more so on abortion

Sorry didge but thats spurious bullshit....why....because the inexorable logic of the temporal paradox dictates that you can only speculate on what may have happened in 2 very specific circumstances

1 )that hitler was never born
2) that hitler (baby) was killed

in BOTH cases the discussion is invalid simply because some of the conditions that caused wwII would not have occured (though what would replace it is an interesting conjecture) AND the greatest stumbling block is that the likelyhood of both your and my parents meeting is reduced to near zero and we wouldnt be here to discuss this....

I HATE this kind of "what if argument" simply because its useless speculation (and thus has zero relevence) and the fact that HISTORY cannopt be changed, (and even if it could......to do so would be beyond dangerous)

Lord Foul wrote:

Thor wrote:Okay let me allow a pro life argument to show how poor your argument here is Victor

This is about baby Hitler

I have respect for Ben, even though I do not agree with all his views and even more so on abortion

Sorry didge but thats spurious bullshit....why....because the inexorable logic of the temporal paradox dictates that you can only speculate on what may have happened in 2 very specific circumstances

1 )that hitler was never born
2) that hitler (baby) was killed

in BOTH cases  the discussion is invalid simply because some of the conditions that caused wwII would not have occured (though what would replace it is an interesting conjecture) AND the greatest stumbling block is that the likelyhood of both your and my parents meeting is reduced to near zero and we wouldnt be here to discuss this....

I HATE this kind of "what if argument" simply because its useless speculation (and thus has zero relevence) and the fact that HISTORY cannopt be changed, (and even if it could......to do so would be beyond dangerous)

How is it invalid, when given different oportunities and different alternative futures, that Hitler could have then turned out different?

You hate this kind of "what if" argument and yet are happy to place judgement on children. That have not reached adulthood and based off their parents

The parents deserve every condemnation and like with the British ones, they should be stripped of their citizenship

The children born to them, is a different matter altogether

They are innocent

as in no other situation would you call for courts to loock up the children of all convicted children in this country, or people that hold extreme beliefs

That is nothing more than authoritarian

Lord Foul wrote:

Thor wrote:Okay let me allow a pro life argument to show how poor your argument here is Victor

This is about baby Hitler

I have respect for Ben, even though I do not agree with all his views and even more so on abortion

Sorry didge but thats spurious bullshit....why....because the inexorable logic of the temporal paradox dictates that you can only speculate on what may have happened in 2 very specific circumstances

1 )that hitler was never born
2) that hitler (baby) was killed

in BOTH cases  the discussion is invalid simply because some of the conditions that caused wwII would not have occured (though what would replace it is an interesting conjecture) AND the greatest stumbling block is that the likelyhood of both your and my parents meeting is reduced to near zero and we wouldnt be here to discuss this....

I HATE this kind of "what if argument" simply because its useless speculation (and thus has zero relevence) and the fact that HISTORY cannopt be changed, (and even if it could......to do so would be beyond dangerous)

hitler joined an organisation that already existed, he did not create it from scratch. there were others who may well have carried his mantle had he not been there.

Thor wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

Thor wrote:

Who blamed anyone here?

To me, the most blame should be seen at the parents and ISIS themselves for the plight of these kids

The fact you just made these kids criminals based off their parents is what I find poor to say the least

Its not based on rational thinking but again emotions  that have a subconscious bias

So why did we rebuild Germany and Japan, who's nations committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in history

Do you think that was a mistake?

NO...because we rebuilt them in the image of what we wanted them to be...peaceful prosperous western nations.....
However there is NO prospect of doing that where ISIL is concerned, firstly they are not a nation and secondly they are not amenable to being turned from their interpretation of whatever it is trhat drives them

But many of them still held extreme and hateful beliefs after we defeated Germany and Japan

If we used your thinking today for back then, can you see yourself as not arguing the same against defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan?

Of course you would, as you cannot think outside of a fear based view, where you do not see a light at the end of the tunnel

In both cases, such ideologies were near eradicated, were they not in each country

Of course people like you did hold such views back them. There was something called the Morgenthau Plan for Germany.

Do you know what that was?

I do now damn you..... however since the reason for not implementing it, and indeed the rebuilding, was primarily economic since germany was holding back economic development in europe as a whole and political due to cold war tensions and a dislike by the usa presidential staff to the potential for 25million deaths in germany, rather than any form of "hearts and minds" I find that not relevant.....there are no economic or political reasons to "hearts and minds" ISIL

Simple point, can people change yes or no?

some can...but religious fanatics.....I doubt it.....

Are people who have been former terrorists now people outspoken against such ideologies.

Yes or no?

The reality is that is not even the point made

You have criminalised children, based off what their parents did

Show me what law we use here in the Uk, that criminalizes children, based off the criminal acts of their parents?

YOU* show me where the sense is in adopting policy that says ...ok wage the dirtiest war against us you like...if you win you win, if you lose we will look after your (equally culpable) women and your kids.

surely the message should be...IF you wage war on us you are fucked...and not only are YOU fucked, but your offspring for generations to come are fucked as well

Well i can show you that people have waged war against us and in both Japan and Germanywe used total war against them and brought them to economic and industrial ruin.

So much so, their will to fight was all exhausted, as they basically had nothing left to fight with and the view, that they were utterly defeated.

Even up to the last months, many fought on, knowing they would lose. Its like even the inevitable, kept them continuing.

Yet we never took the stance to then say fuck you to them, did we?

I mean imagine Israel took your philosophy with its Arabs neighbours that have sought to destroy them. Now two are at peace with them and more are siding with them. Due to the fact they could have wiped them all out and never did. Its based on them again winning.

People defeated are demoralized. Some continue the fight but many, even within ideologies, can see a lost cause. They even come to see the cause they are fighting for is wrong

I have always said the best way to defeat an enemy is with total war mate

Thor wrote:Well i can show you that people have waged war against us and in both Japan and Germanywe used total war against them and brought them to economic and industrial ruin.

So much so, their will to fight was all exhausted, as they basically had nothing left to fight with and the view, that they were utterly defeated.

Even up to the last months, many fought on, knowing they would lose. Its like even the inevitable, kept them continuing.

Yet we never took the stance to then say fuck you to them, did we?

I mean imagine Israel took your philosophy with its Arabs neighbours that have sought to destroy them. Now two are at peace with them and more are siding with them. Due to the fact they could have wiped them all out and never did. Its based on them again winning.

People defeated are demoralized. Some continue the fight but many, even within ideologies, can see a lost cause. They even come to see the cause they are fighting for is wrong

I have always said the best way to defeat an enemy is with total war mate

both countries were totally defeated and rebuilt from the ground up, certainly in the case of germany the high command was almost totally removed from the equation. around 7% of germans were actual nazi's and whilst they may have turned blind eyes in some case not complicit in the worst of the horrors committed by actual nazi's. I know less about the japanese, but they were broken after the war. the ISIS ideology has been around in one form or another for 1400 years now, there is no dialog you can have with it.

given the slaughter of our children...(manchester arena anyone?) I'd say tough.....paybacks a bitch

harsh? definitely, and I make no apology

where ISIS is concerned time to sound El Degüello

The Devil, You Know wrote:the amount of fucks I give about those whores would not fill up the eye of a needle. they chose to join a bloodthirsty death cult, they can live with the consequence. they should be forced to beg forgiveness from the yazidis and kurds, syrians and iraqi's who's lifes they made hell. they should be forced, like  those who lived near the concentrations  camps in the war, were made to see the horror, to help excavate the mass graves. 10 or 15 years giving back to the people they destroyed may go a little way to making up for what they did.

I pretty much agree.

they choose their side it's not even like they had a gov't directing them (as Nazis did)
I can't see how someone regardless of gender that willfully traveled from a western nation to join ISIL can not be considered a terrorist and enemy of the state.

Sure it sucks to be those kids but it sucks to be the baby mice when you exterminate the nest too. this is just a fact of nature.