US Government kills another immigrant child

Last time it was a 7-year old girl who died in the care of the US Border Patrol (management has removed story).  This time, it is an 8-year old Guatemalan boy., with equally grim details.

Border Patrol officials were advised of the boy's illness, but dismissed his symptoms as a common cold.  No special care, nor notice was given to him.  Through the night his symptoms worsened, but still no help.  In the morning he was declared dead.

What were his symptoms? If he appeared to have a cold, of course nobody would do anything about that.

After the death of another child? At a minimum, any adult would make sure there isn't an epidemic. But...not a care or concern for these people.

You can never trust this president. He may well be doing this on purpose. Indeed, he may be seeding this disease by aerosol.

Original Quill wrote:After the death of another child?  At a minimum, any adult would make sure there isn't an epidemic.  But...not a care or concern for these people.

You can never trust this president.  He may well be doing this on purpose.    Indeed, he may be seeding this disease by aerosol.

Children get colds all the time. Everyone knows that you can't give medication to cure a cold. I doubt the President would know how to spread disease by aerosol.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:After the death of another child?  At a minimum, any adult would make sure there isn't an epidemic.  But...not a care or concern for these people.

You can never trust this president.  He may well be doing this on purpose.    Indeed, he may be seeding this disease by aerosol.

Children get colds all the time. Everyone knows that you can't give medication to cure a cold. I doubt the President would know how to spread disease by aerosol.

Before now, there was no documented case of kids dying while seeking asylum in the US.  Now suddenly there are multiple cases.  Not coincidentally (I don't believe in coincidence) the white nationalist Russo-Republicans are kicking up a ruckus over a border wall, attempting to keep people of color out.

Against this backdrop, it's a curious fact that more people enter the US illegally from the Canadian border than from the Mexican border.  https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-our-Canadian-border-have-the-same-problems-as-our-Mexican-border.  Is there no comparative concern because the people coming in from Canada look like us?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:After the death of another child?  At a minimum, any adult would make sure there isn't an epidemic.  But...not a care or concern for these people.

You can never trust this president.  He may well be doing this on purpose.    Indeed, he may be seeding this disease by aerosol.

Children get colds all the time. Everyone knows that you can't give medication to cure a cold.

Who releases a child from a hospital while he is exhibiting a 103° temperature? Please don't tell me that wasn't intentional. It's like a blaring siren going off. It would be patent malpractice in any other situation.

So, what was the purpose behind intentionally giving a child such substandard medical care? Riddle me that!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Children get colds all the time. Everyone knows that you can't give medication to cure a cold.

Who releases a child from a hospital while he is exhibiting a 103° temperature?  Please don't tell me that wasn't intentional.  It's like a blaring siren going off.  It would be patent malpractice in any other situation.

So, what was the purpose behind intentionally giving a child such substandard medical care?  Riddle me that!  

You haven't actually provided a link so it's difficult to comment. I suppose I'll have to find info myself.

Original Quill wrote:Last time it was a 7-year old girl who died in the care of the US Border Patrol (management has removed story).  This time, it is an 8-year old Guatemalan boy., with equally grim details.

Border Patrol officials were advised of the boy's illness, but dismissed his symptoms as a common cold.  No special care, nor notice was given to him.  Through the night his symptoms worsened, but still no help.  In the morning he was declared dead.

OK, so this post is incorrect. The boy was taken to hospital, so it's not true to say that no special care or notice was given to him. You knew it was incorrect because you said later that he was released from hospital.

In the hospital he was treated with amoxillin and ibruprofen, not an uncommon treatment, and he was released - also not uncommon. He became worse later on, was taken back to the hospital where he later died.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Last time it was a 7-year old girl who died in the care of the US Border Patrol (management has removed story).  This time, it is an 8-year old Guatemalan boy., with equally grim details.

Border Patrol officials were advised of the boy's illness, but dismissed his symptoms as a common cold.  No special care, nor notice was given to him.  Through the night his symptoms worsened, but still no help.  In the morning he was declared dead.

OK, so this post is incorrect. The boy was taken to hospital, so it's not true to say that no special care or notice was given to him. You knew it was incorrect because you said later that he was released from hospital.

In the hospital he was treated with amoxillin and ibruprofen, not an uncommon treatment, and he was released - also not uncommon. He became worse later on, was taken back to the hospital where he later died.

I know he was taken to the hospital.  That isn't the contention.  My question was: Who releases a child--indeed, anybody--from a hospital with a temperature of 103°?  

You frame the excuse: "...he was treated with amoxillin and ibruprofen...and was released."  103°? That's like saying, we saw that he had a severed spine, but we gave him fast-acting Aleve and sent him on his way!  

Everyone knows that medical care in America is much better than that.  Thus, this had to be a deliberate act aimed at killing the boy.  Again, it's the act of a party who puts children in cages, and tear-gasses families.  America is become the Nazis.  #Charlottesville.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

OK, so this post is incorrect. The boy was taken to hospital, so it's not true to say that no special care or notice was given to him. You knew it was incorrect because you said later that he was released from hospital.

In the hospital he was treated with amoxillin and ibruprofen, not an uncommon treatment, and he was released - also not uncommon. He became worse later on, was taken back to the hospital where he later died.

I know he was taken to the hospital.  That isn't the contention.  My question was: Who releases a child--indeed, anybody--from a hospital with a temperature of 103°?  

"He was treated with amoxillin and ibruprofen...and was released."  That's like saying, we saw that he had a severed spine, but we gave him fast-acting Aleve and sent him on his way!  

Everyone knows that medical care in America is much better than that.  Thus, this had to be a deliberate act aimed at killing the boy.  Again, it's the act of a party who puts children in cages, and tear-gasses families.

You're not going to wriggle out of it that easily. This is what you said:

Border Patrol officials were advised of the boy's illness, but dismissed his symptoms as a common cold. No special care, nor notice was given to him. Through the night his symptoms worsened, but still no help. In the morning he was declared dead.

That was not true was it Quill? Also, the border officials are not responsible for the treatment at the hospital, so you're out of order blaming them.

The boy showed symptoms of a cold and fever so they treated him for that. They also gave him penicillin in case he had a bacterial infection too. That's pretty standard treatment. I can find nothing about him having a temperature of 103. He had different symptoms later on, so he was taken back the hospital in a responsible manner.

Children and adults do die you know, they die even if they're not immigrants. I was once told I had pulled a muscle when I actually had pneumonia, and I'm not an immigrant. These things happen.

Raggamuffin wrote:You're not going to wriggle out of it that easily.

You're the one who is "wriggling", sweet cheeks. Mine is to be indignant. Get to the point! How do you justify releasing a boy from the hospital when he has a 103° temperature?

Raggamuffin wrote:That was not true was it Quill? Also, the border officials are not responsible for the treatment at the hospital, so you're out of order blaming them.

So you're saying it's just an unfortunate jurisdictional misunderstanding? That caused the boy his life?

The authorities had a duty to save this boy's life, and no haggling over who had jurisdiction is going to cut it. It's a plain and simple fact that the boy was not allowed to go at his own whim!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:You're not going to wriggle out of it that easily.

You're the one who is "wriggling", sweet cheeks.  Mine is to be indignant.  Get to the point!  How do you justify releasing a boy from the hospital when he has a 103° temperature?

Oh, you are wriggling. You can never admit that you have been inaccurate can you?

Find me a link that says he was released from hospital with a temperature of 103 and I might comment.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:That was not true was it Quill? Also, the border officials are not responsible for the treatment at the hospital, so you're out of order blaming them.

So you're saying it's just an unfortunate jurisdictional misunderstanding?  That caused the boy his life?

The authorities had a duty to save this boy's life, and no haggling over who had jurisdiction is going to cut it.  It's a plain and simple fact that the boy was not allowed to go at his own whim!

I'm saying that you didn't tell the truth about the circumstances, and that you can't blame the officials because they sent him to hospital. People are misdiagnosed in hospital all the time, or they're not but they later develop other symptoms. Why don't you wait for the cause of death before you accuse anyone of killing the boy?

Raggamuffin wrote:The boy showed symptoms of a cold and fever so they treated him for that. They also gave him penicillin in case he had a bacterial infection too. That's pretty standard treatment. I can find nothing about him having a temperature of 103. He had different symptoms later on, so he was taken back the hospital in a responsible manner.

The boy was released from medical care with a temperature of 103°:

Huffpost wrote:The boy was released just before 3 p.m., about 90 minutes after he had been found to have a fever of 103 degrees Fahrenheit (39.4 Celsius), CBP said. He was prescribed amoxicillin and ibuprofen, and taken with his father to a holding facility at a highway checkpoint.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/medical-checks-ordered-after-immigrant-child-death_us_5c237ccde4b05c88b6fccbff

No hospital in the country would release a patient with those symptoms. It would be medical malpractice.

Clearly, the hospital staff had been ordered to release the boy by the Border Patrol.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The boy showed symptoms of a cold and fever so they treated him for that. They also gave him penicillin in case he had a bacterial infection too. That's pretty standard treatment. I can find nothing about him having a temperature of 103. He had different symptoms later on, so he was taken back the hospital in a responsible manner.

The boy was released from medical care with a temperature of 103°:

Huffpost wrote:The boy was released just before 3 p.m., about 90 minutes after he had been found to have a fever of 103 degrees Fahrenheit (39.4 Celsius), CBP said. He was prescribed amoxicillin and ibuprofen, and taken with his father to a holding facility at a highway checkpoint.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/medical-checks-ordered-after-immigrant-child-death_us_5c237ccde4b05c88b6fccbff

No hospital in the country would release a patient with those symptoms.  It would be medical malpractice.

Clearly, the hospital staff had been ordered to release the boy by the Border Patrol.

He was released 90 minutes after he had that temperature, so you don't know what temperature he had when he was released.

It's a high temperature but it's not dangerously high. A fever is merely an indication of activity of the immune system, often in relation to an infection such as a cold. A fever like that doesn't usually merit a visit to a hospital anyway, so clearly the officials did nothing wrong.

Raggamuffin wrote:Children and adults do die you know, they die even if they're not immigrants. I was once told I had pulled a muscle when I actually had pneumonia, and I'm not an immigrant. These things happen.

What you arguing is: everyone dies, so there should be no people held for murder. Absurd! Yes, they die. But it's a question of the circumstances by which they die.

Here is the case of an 8-year old boy, committed to the custody of the Border Patrol. The Border Patrol has absolute say on what happens to the boy.

As I said above, no hospital would ever release a person with a fever of 103 degrees Fahrenheit. The only circumstance in which medical personnel would do so is if the person is in custody, and then the custodial agency acts on its own authority and takes full responsibility. The Border Patrol killed this young boy.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Children and adults do die you know, they die even if they're not immigrants. I was once told I had pulled a muscle when I actually had pneumonia, and I'm not an immigrant. These things happen.

What you arguing is: everyone dies, so there should be no people held for murder.  Absurd!  Yes, they die.  But it's a question of the circumstances by which they die.

Here is the case of an 8-year old boy, committed to the custody of the Border Patrol.  The Border Patrol has absolute say on what happens to the boy.

As I said above, no hospital would ever release a person with a fever of 103 degrees Fahrenheit.  The only circumstance in which medical personnel would do so is if the person is in custody, and then the custodial agency acts on its own authority and takes full responsibility.  The Border Patrol killed this young boy.

Don't be silly. You're actually libelling a whole group of people.

Can you prove that a hospital would not release someone who had a temperature? People take their children to the docs with temperatures all the time, and they let them go home. Anyway, I already told you that you don't know what temperature he had when he was released from the hospital.

Oh, and did you miss this bit Quill?

At about 7 p.m., agents helped clean up the boy’s vomit. CBP said the father “declined further medical assistance” then.

Raggamuffin wrote:He was released 90 minutes after he had that temperature, so you don't know what temperature he had when he was released.

Wriggling again? No one has said that the boy's temperature ever went down. You are speculating... and doing a poor job of it.

Even if the boy's temperature went down in an hour-and-a-half, he would ordinarily be kept under 24-hour observation if it were up to the medical staff.

The Border Patrol is responsible for the death of this young child.

Bullshit Quill, your always trying to put your Government down. Don't you like being an American,or is just because Trump is in charge ?

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh, and did you miss this bit Quill?

At about 7 p.m., agents helped clean up the boy’s vomit. CBP said the father “declined further medical assistance” then.

Typical double-speak from the agency. If the boy is in custody, the father has no authority to accept or decline treatment.

At best, the father was coerced or threatened with adverse consequences. More probably, he was never asked and the Border Patrol just checked the box 'declined medical assistance'.

Original Quill wrote:

Wriggling again?  No one has said that the boy's temperature ever went down.  You are speculating... and doing a poor job of it.

Even if the boy's temperature went down in an hour-and-a-half, he would ordinarily be kept under 24-hour observation if it were up to the medical staff.

The Border Patrol is responsible for the death of this young child.

You're being absurd. If the border patrol ordered him to be released, they would hardly send him back to hospital later would they?

You have no evidence that he had such a high temperature when he was released, and you also have no proof that hospitals do not release patients who have a temperature. Of course people may well have a temperature if they have an infection, but that doesn't mean they have to be in hospital.

nicko wrote:Bullshit Quill,   your always trying to put your Government down.   Don't you like being an American,or is just because Trump is in charge ?

America is as great as she is because people like me demand it! That's what I'm here for.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh, and did you miss this bit Quill?

Typical double-speak from the agency.  If the boy is in custody, the father has no authority to accept or decline treatment.

At best, the father was coerced or threatened with adverse consequences.  More probably, he was never asked and the Border Patrol just checked the box 'declined medical assistance'.

Ah, so you believe some bits of the article which you linked to and you disbelieve other bits. You do like to pick and choose according to what suits you don't you?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Wriggling again?  No one has said that the boy's temperature ever went down.  You are speculating... and doing a poor job of it.

Even if the boy's temperature went down in an hour-and-a-half, he would ordinarily be kept under 24-hour observation if it were up to the medical staff.

The Border Patrol is responsible for the death of this young child.

You're being absurd. If the border patrol ordered him to be released, they would hardly send him back to hospital later would they?

You have no evidence that he had such a high temperature when he was released, and you also have no proof that hospitals do not release patients who have a temperature. Of course people may well have a temperature if they have an infection, but that doesn't mean they have to be in hospital.

Yes...that's the big debate right now.  The Border Patrol did not send the boy back to the hospital on the second occasion, but to a way station, where there were inadequate medical facilities.

Your logic is just what is fueling the criticism right now...the Border Patrol didn't give a shit about the boy's health.

If you bothered to do some research, you'd see that people are sent home from hospitals with a high temperature, so why are insisting there's a sinister reason for this particular child?

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're being absurd. If the border patrol ordered him to be released, they would hardly send him back to hospital later would they?

You have no evidence that he had such a high temperature when he was released, and you also have no proof that hospitals do not release patients who have a temperature. Of course people may well have a temperature if they have an infection, but that doesn't mean they have to be in hospital.

Yes...that's the big debate right now.  The Border Patrol did not send the boy back to the hospital on the second occasion, but to a way station, where there were inadequate medical facilities.

Your logic is just what is fueling the criticism right now...the Border Patrol didn't give a shit about the boy's health.

It says in your article that he was sent back to hospital.

But at about 10 p.m., the boy “appeared lethargic and nauseous again,” the agency said, and agents decided to have taken to the hospital.

If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't have sent him to hospital the first time, let alone the second time.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Typical double-speak from the agency.  If the boy is in custody, the father has no authority to accept or decline treatment.

At best, the father was coerced or threatened with adverse consequences.  More probably, he was never asked and the Border Patrol just checked the box 'declined medical assistance'.

Ah, so you believe some bits of the article which you linked to and you disbelieve other bits. You do like to pick and choose according to what suits you don't you?

Classic cop-speak. Cops are trained to speak deceptively, in their own favor. Trained to do so. You forget, I taught at the Police Academy, University of Arizona.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes...that's the big debate right now.  The Border Patrol did not send the boy back to the hospital on the second occasion, but to a way station, where there were inadequate medical facilities.

Your logic is just what is fueling the criticism right now...the Border Patrol didn't give a shit about the boy's health.

It says in your article that he was sent back to hospital.

But at about 10 p.m., the boy “appeared lethargic and nauseous again,” the agency said, and agents decided to have taken to the hospital.

If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't have sent him to hospital the first time, let alone the second time.

And now, on later news, we learn that it wasn't back to the hospital at all.  It was a way station, where medical facilities were inadequate.

This is how stories develop.  It's all over the cable news channels right now.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It says in your article that he was sent back to hospital.



If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't have sent him to hospital the first time, let alone the second time.

And now, on later news, we learn that it wasn't back to the hospital at all.  It was a way station, where medical facilities were inadequate.

This is how stories develop.  It's all over the cable news channels right now.

I can't find anything about that.

I'm not sure why they prescribed antiobiotics if they thought it was a cold. Antibiotics have no effect on viruses. It sounds like they did so as a precaution in case he got a secondary infection.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And now, on later news, we learn that it wasn't back to the hospital at all.  It was a way station, where medical facilities were inadequate.

This is how stories develop.  It's all over the cable news channels right now.

I can't find anything about that.

It's on the TV media.

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm not sure why they prescribed antiobiotics if they thought it was a cold. Antibiotics have no effect on viruses. It sounds like they did so as a precaution in case he got a secondary infection.

That's usually the reason why they prescribe antibiotics surrounding a virus infection. BTW, I haven't heard why this boy died, or what he was afflicted with, anyway.

"PEOPLE LIKE ME DEMAND IT" you have a very high opinion of yourself mate, you have no more impact on Government policy as I do !

nicko wrote:Bullshit Quill,   your always trying to put your Government down.   Don't you like being an American,or is just because Trump is in charge ?

Trump is the most profoundly un-American president America has had in decades, maybe even ever.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're being absurd. If the border patrol ordered him to be released, they would hardly send him back to hospital later would they?

You have no evidence that he had such a high temperature when he was released, and you also have no proof that hospitals do not release patients who have a temperature. Of course people may well have a temperature if they have an infection, but that doesn't mean they have to be in hospital.

Yes...that's the big debate right now.  The Border Patrol did not send the boy back to the hospital on the second occasion, but to a way station, where there were inadequate medical facilities.

Your logic is just what is fueling the criticism right now...the Border Patrol didn't give a shit about the boy's health.

It says in your article that he was sent back to hospital.

But at about 10 p.m., the boy “appeared lethargic and nauseous again,” the agency said, and agents decided to have taken to the hospital.

If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't have sent him to hospital the first time, let alone the second time.

Oh, the Border Patrol does not give a shit about these people. Quill and I know that from other stuff, such as this:

nicko wrote:"PEOPLE LIKE ME DEMAND IT"     you have a very high opinion of yourself mate,  you have no more impact on Government policy as I do !

Those are the words of the American public, not only me.  Do you have a lower opinion of yourself?

Why don't you read about America.  For example, Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America (1834).  Toqueville, a French jurist, traveled to America to study the life and ways of America.  He found a strain of independence and autonomous dignity never seen in Europe.  It both amazed him and scared him because of the degree of self-sufficiency.

Shakespeare wrote about "petty" people who "walk under...huge legs and peep about
to find themselves dishonorable graves."  Wm. Shakespeare, Julius Ceasar, Act I, Scene 2.  He was writing about Europeans.

Toqueville wrote just the opposite about America.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm not sure why they prescribed antiobiotics if they thought it was a cold. Antibiotics have no effect on viruses. It sounds like they did so as a precaution in case he got a secondary infection.

That's usually the reason why they prescribe antibiotics surrounding a virus infection.  BTW, I haven't heard why this boy died, or what he was afflicted with, anyway.

Well they shouldn't prescribe antibiotics just in case. That's how bacteria is becoming drug resistant.

Just read up on this, the child was ill before they started out, so dragging him 2000 miles would not have done him any good, the Border guards took him to the Medical Tent and doctors started to treat him. the Father took him away before treatment was completed and refused to let Medical staff carry on treating him ! So Quill your posts are based on lies !

Raggamuffin, why are you just trying to put lipstick on a pig? This boy died because of donald trump's inhumane treatment of human beings. This is the second child he has killed. Trump is directly responsible. The man is a filthy piece of shit.

nicko wrote:Just read up on this,   the child was ill before they started out, so dragging him 2000 miles would not have done him any good,  the Border guards took him to the Medical Tent and doctors started to treat him.  the Father took him away before treatment was completed and refused to let Medical staff carry on treating him !   So Quill your posts are based on lies !

I admire your research into the facts.  But please read carefully, and don't make assumptions.  No one knows where the boy (or the girl) got sick, as they don't even know what the illness is yet.

Where the children got sick is of less importance than what the Border Patrol did while the children were in their custody.  First, no one should die in a modern nation's custody, as medical care should be available and of the highest caliber.  Second, because custody means control, steps should immediately be taken to get the child into care and medical treatment as soon as symptoms appear.

The fact that these children died in the care and custody of a modern-day nation means one of two things: either (1) the host nation is, surprisingly, not among the highest caliber of nations when it comes to medical care, and it's ignorance is the reason it missed the illness of these children; or (2) the host nation just doesn't care!

I'm leaning toward the latter.  First, you have a president setting the theme who believes that incarceration is synonymous with punishment itself; and second, you have authorities who are slack and, in that fact, prove their own malice and apathy toward detainees.  At what point does apathy become intentional?

Please keep these concerns in mind as you peruse the facts.  I know you are used to military confrontation, nicko, and that hardens you toward detainees such as these from the start.  But, at the same time, think of the battlefield medics...what if they treated your injuries so dismissively?  You, or your comrades, might also not make it because those responsible didn't care.

Trump worshipers seem to believe that Hispanics aren't human beings. That is good Nazi brain washing.

He came from Guatemala, is that Hispanic ?

nicko wrote:He came from Guatemala, is that Hispanic ?

Hispanic denotes people who speak the languages of the Iberian peninsula, namely Spain and Portugal. Brasil is a country that speaks Portuguese. All the rest of the countries in Central and South America speak Spanish and the people from those countries are considered Hispanic.

I didn't know that !

So yet again Quill lying to further exploist the death of a child for his own political agenda

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It says in your article that he was sent back to hospital.



If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't have sent him to hospital the first time, let alone the second time.

Oh, the Border Patrol does not give a shit about these people. Quill and I know that from other stuff, such as this:

That is your evidence, after knowing Quill was completely decpetive with the facts here

You then claim off this that they do not give a shit and in two incidents that have become global media stories, the border guards did everything

You dont have an ounce of credible honesty within you,r now after claiming that and you work in the media?

The fact again how you back Quill in his misleading story, says everything about this quite sick agenda that you two extremist soailists want to play out on this forum

Luckliy others like me will expose you for the lies you keep promoting

Didge wrote:The fact again how you back Quill in his misleading story, says everything about this quite sick agenda that you two extremist soailists want to play out on this forum

Yep, everything...the facts are true as represented on this thread.

Didge wrote:Luckliy others like me will expose you for the lies you keep promoting

When?  I can't wait.  

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Children get colds all the time. Everyone knows that you can't give medication to cure a cold.

Who releases a child from a hospital while he is exhibiting a 103° temperature?  Please don't tell me that wasn't intentional.  It's like a blaring siren going off.  It would be patent malpractice in any other situation.

So, what was the purpose behind intentionally giving a child such substandard medical care?  Riddle me that!  

Sadly, this kind of thing isn't unique to the US