US Border guards killing children

by Original Quill Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:38 pm

7-Year-Old Migrant Child Dies Horrific Death In Border Detention Center
Allison Vincent - December 13, 2018

It’s becoming devastatingly clear that Trump’s extreme treatment of refugees seeking asylum at our southern border is getting more and more out of hand.

We’ve got children being needlessly torn from the arms of their parents upon entry to the country and put in separate detainment areas, and most recently we’ve seen horrific images of migrants being hit with tear gas — most of them innocent families with women and small children.

Worse, there are at least 1,500 children missing and unaccounted for dating back to only this past summer because of negligence on the part of Trump’s crackdown on what he insists are terrorists trying to cross the border.

And the worst news we would ever expect to hear — the needless death of a child — has reached us today, as reportedly a 7-year-old child who had not eaten or consumed water for several days died an extremely terrifying and painful death from dehydration while in Border Patrol custody.

The Washington Post reports:

‘A 7-year-old girl from Guatemala died of dehydration and shock after she was taken into Border Patrol custody last week for crossing from Mexico into the United States illegally with her father and a large group of migrants along a remote span of New Mexico desert, U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday.

‘The child’s death is likely to intensify scrutiny of detention conditions at Border Patrol stations and CBP facilities that are increasingly overwhelmed by large numbers of families seeking asylum in the United States.

‘According to CBP records, the girl and her father were taken into custody about 10 p.m. Dec. 6 south of Lordsburg, N.M., as part of a group of 163 people who approached U.S. agents to turn themselves in.’

After being separated from her father, and after about 8 hours of being held in detention, the child started having seizures. When medical staff was finally on the scene, they measured her body temperature at almost 106 degrees.

The child was immediately given IV fluids and placed on a helicopter to a nearby hospital in El Paso, where she went into sudden cardiac arrest. The child was revived, but later died less than 24 hours later.

by Syl Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Barbaric.
The children should not be separated from their parents in the first place. Crying or Very sad

by Guest Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:52 pm

A child would have had to have been dehydrated for a least a couple of days for this to have caused siezures, later leading to complications like a heart attack. Seems like this is inflating a story here to make it seem like this is down to the US detention centres.

We have no idea about the girls medical history. Nor do I believe that the US border controls would deny water of food to people held in detention centers. It is in fact a matter of policy

You need to take this story with a pinch of salt, as the evidence points to this child already suffering from an underlining medical condition or lack of food and water for days. Which if she did have, then why was her father making her go on a long haul endangering her life?

Its very easy to read an over inflated part story that Quill posts, when he never posts an actual link and how its made to seem, that the detention caused her death.

Sorry that is complete balderdash.

If she would have been kept with her father, I sadly believe she still would have died. The seperation played no part in this what so ever.

This girl could have been travelling for weeks and thus caused her unnecessary harm to her condition or that she had not ate or drank for days. The border patrol did everything to save her life

Now if you read the actual link that Quill clearly and deliberatly failed to post you have the following from this..

More than eight hours later, the child began having seizures at 6:25 a.m., CBP records show. Emergency responders, who arrived soon after, measured her body temperature at 105.7 degrees, and according to a statement from CBP, she “reportedly had not eaten or consumed water for several days.”

Food and water are typically provided to migrants in Border Patrol custody, and it wasn’t immediately clear Thursday if the girl received provisions and a medical exam before the onset of seizures.

Though much of the political and media attention has focused in recent weeks on migrant caravans arriving at the Tijuana-San Diego border, large numbers of Central Americans continue to cross the border into Texas, Arizona and New Mexico. The groups sometimes spend days in smugglers’ stash houses or walking through remote areas with little food or water before reaching the border.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.246dea61503c

Once in custody, I doubt there would have been little that could have been done to save this childs life. As she was no doubt too ill at this point to actually intake any food or water properly. She needed proper medical care. The only question to ask on this is whether Border Guards are now medical experts to diagnoise conditions?

I find it appalling that some would use the death of this child for political leverage

by Original Quill Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:20 am

Didge wrote:Once in custody, I doubt there would have been little that could have been done to save this childs life. As she was no doubt too ill at this point to actually intake any food or water properly. She needed proper medical care. The only question to ask on this is whether Border Guards are now medical experts to diagnoise conditions?

I find it appalling that some would use the death of this child for political leverage

Sooo...basically, you blame the victim--a seven year old child?

by 'Wolfie Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:58 am

Thor wrote:A child would have had to have been dehydrated for a least a couple of days for this to have caused siezures, later leading to complications like a heart attack. Seems like this is inflating a story here to make it seem like this is down to the US detention centres.

We have no idea about the girls medical history. Nor do I believe that the US border controls would deny water of food to people held in detention centers. It is in fact a matter of policy

You need to take this story with a pinch of salt, as the evidence points to this child already suffering from an underlining medical condition or lack of food and water for days. Which if she did have, then why was her father making her go on a long haul endangering her life?

Its very easy to read an over inflated part story that Quill posts, when he never posts an actual link and how its made to seem, that the detention caused her death.

Sorry that is complete balderdash.

If she would have been kept with her father, I sadly believe she still would have died. The seperation played no part in this what so ever.

This girl could have been travelling for weeks and thus caused her unnecessary harm to her condition or that she had not ate or drank for days. The border patrol did everything to save her life

Now if you read the actual link that Quill clearly and deliberatly failed to post you have the following from this..

More than eight hours later, the child began having seizures at 6:25 a.m., CBP records show. Emergency responders, who arrived soon after, measured her body temperature at 105.7 degrees, and according to a statement from CBP, she “reportedly had not eaten or consumed water for several days.”

Food and water are typically provided to migrants in Border Patrol custody, and it wasn’t immediately clear Thursday if the girl received provisions and a medical exam before the onset of seizures.

Though much of the political and media attention has focused in recent weeks on migrant caravans arriving at the Tijuana-San Diego border, large numbers of Central Americans continue to cross the border into Texas, Arizona and New Mexico. The groups sometimes spend days in smugglers’ stash houses or walking through remote areas with little food or water before reaching the border.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.246dea61503c

Once in custody, I doubt there would have been little that could have been done to save this childs life. As she was no doubt too ill at this point to actually intake any food or water properly. She needed proper medical care. The only question to ask on this is whether Border Guards are now medical experts to diagnoise conditions?

I find it appalling that some would use the death of this child for political leverage

Not quite, Dodge...

This is the American--Mexico border we are looking at here, not the English--Scotland border..

Many of those people have been travelling for days, even weeks, so that many of them will be dehydrated to varying extents well before they arrived at the border..

If that girl was already ill when arrested, that was probably an influencing factor in her father hamding themselves into border guards, rather than trying to avoid them..

The border guards don't have to be "medical experts" to know that something is wrong, as medical help would have only been a radio or telephone call away -- and yet the border guards failed to act, in getting timely help for that child.

Most likely because they have the same bloodyminded fascist mindset as yourself, Dodger -- treating everybody, no matter how young or how obviously unwell they may be, as the enemy, and letting them go hang instead of looking to their welfare..

by Original Quill Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:34 pm

American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

by Guest Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Once in custody, I doubt there would have been little that could have been done to save this childs life. As she was no doubt too ill at this point to actually intake any food or water properly. She needed proper medical care. The only question to ask on this is whether Border Guards are now medical experts to diagnoise conditions?

I find it appalling that some would use the death of this child for political leverage

Sooo...basically, you blame the victim--a seven year old child?

No the father actually

Lets look at this situation

He takes his daughter on a journey, without sufficient food and water, travelling well over a thousand miles through Mexico. Which he could of stayed and worked to obtain more money for food. Instead he led his daughter further without food or water. To the point where she was picked up by border guards

If they had not been seperated and been placed together. She still would have been dead 8 hours later, due to the fact she was already at a critical condition

If they had managed to illegally enter the US. She would have been dead within 8 hours

So who is to blame?

As in each case the child will die, as happened anyway. Because her father failed to provide for her well being and placed her at risk

by Original Quill Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:35 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Sooo...basically, you blame the victim--a seven year old child?

No the father actually

Lets look at this situation

He takes his daughter on a journey, without sufficient food and water, travelling well over a thousand miles through Mexico. Which he could of stayed and worked to obtain more money for food. Instead he led his daughter further without food or water. To the point where she was picked up by border guards

If they had not been seperated and been placed together. She still would have been dead 8 hours later, due to the fact she was already at a critical condition

If they had managed to illegally enter the US. She would have been dead within 8 hours

So who is to blame?

As in each case the child will die, as happened anyway. Because her father failed to provide for her well being and placed her at risk

You left out the most important detail. They were running from intolerable conditions, in which both their lives are threatened. The only answer you have is: Ess no my probleeem, mon, git the fuuk outta here!

Or did you intend that they should die, because you don't want any more dark skinned people from "shithole" countries?

by Guest Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:

No the father actually

Lets look at this situation

He takes his daughter on a journey, without sufficient food and water, travelling well over a thousand miles through Mexico. Which he could of stayed and worked to obtain more money for food. Instead he led his daughter further without food or water. To the point where she was picked up by border guards

If they had not been seperated and been placed together. She still would have been dead 8 hours later, due to the fact she was already at a critical condition

If they had managed to illegally enter the US. She would have been dead within 8 hours

So who is to blame?

As in each case the child will die, as happened anyway. Because her father failed to provide for her well being and placed her at risk

You left out the most important detail. They were running from intolerable conditions, in which both their lives are threatened. The only answer you have is: Ess no my probleeem, mon, git the fuuk outta here!

Or did you intend that they should die, because you don't want any more dark skinned people from "shithole" countries?

Were they running from such conditions?

Hearsay

The news article claims migrants, not refugees or asylum seekers

If they were asylum seekers, then they would have not tried to enter illegally and would have claimed asylum at the border

So agin you are caught out lying, as people who are refugees claim asylum at the border and dont try to sneak in

So again clearly this father placed his daughter at risk. In the end they turned themselves in because they had clearly no means to support themselves, but by then his daughter was too critical to save.

And cut the babble out around skin colour you imbicille. That plays no part in why this girl died

by Original Quill Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:54 pm

Whoa...you think they were on a vacation?

You're just another nasty white supremacist, trying to purify the racial content of your surroundings.

by Guest Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:Whoa...you think they were on a vacation?

You're just another nasty white supremacist, trying to purify the racial content of your surroundings.

How does my points make me a white supremacist?

Have I ever advocated white supremacy?

No

Have I always stoood against white supremacy?

Yep

Do I stand against racism

Yep

I look at this for what actually happened and migrants are placing children at risk, by seeking to better their lives. When they clearly have not prepared for these journeys or looked to actually try to enter a country legally or through asylum. This father did neither.

He took a risk at the expense of his daught. I certainly do not blame people for wanting to better their lives, but I certainly blame people when they are irresponsible as this father was here, by not properly caring fof his daughter to have the fundemental needs in order to live.

So doing as the left do and shout and scream racism, is you simple conceeding the debate

I have no issue with people wanting to better their lives, but you have to have a controlled system. Otherwise your country would collapse under the strain to cope with such a massive influx

by Original Quill Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:22 pm

Didge wrote:How does my points make me a white supremacist?

You would be withholding basic sustenance to the point of death, and placing material things above humanity. All of your malevolent efforts are focused on people of color. I haven't once heard you say you would treat someone from Norway or Belgium in such an atrocious manner.

The only difference between you and Hitler when it comes to nationalism, is he does overtly what you would do only neglectfully--with benign neglect.

by Guest Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:How does my points make me a white supremacist?

You would be withholding basic sustenance to the point of death, and placing material things above humanity. All of your malevolent efforts are focused on people of color. I haven't once heard you say you would treat someone from Norway or Belgium in such an atrocious manner.

The only difference between you and Hitler when it comes to nationalism, is he does overtly what you would do only neglectfully--with benign neglect.

Would I?

Ae they?

How little you do actually know me

So is that why they actually tried to save the girls life and did in fact bring her back from having a heart attack? Brought on by severe dehydration and starvation, all based on the actions of the father through his negligence. Not the border guards

Like I said, she would have sadly died in all the scenraios I gave because at this point she was critical

As usual you wish to invoke and make this about racism, which shows the limitation of your ability to look at anything rationally

Hence why I will continue to prove how irrationaly you are being

At no point did I argue about nationalism or state people should be refused entry to the US based on race. You invented that because my points were to rational for you and instead you wanted shout racism at me

Now I have no idea who you are trying to impress or convince but posters know me well enought to know I am against racism. Hence why I presented with reason. Yet you attempt what the left always do. Try to deligitimize with lies

And I will constantly reply with reason

by 'Wolfie Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:18 am

Instead of continuing to "defend the indefensible" with respect to the current US border patrols, Dodge should face up to a few facts :

Those border guards are not highly trained and specially selected military types, nor are they a well-discliplined, trained and qualified police force like one might expect to find in New York or California..

Rather, they often appear to largely consist of the dregs of southern and mid-western "white trash" rednecks and 'Klan offspring -- more akin to the stereotypical untrained and uneducated small town deputies, or those partly-trained National Guard volunteers that GWB sent to Iraq to bolster the troops, or maybe the Immigration&Customs people at '3rd World' airports..

And with the more cruel, vindictive and racist among those border guards feeling even more important and effective under Donnie Trumpster's orders these days, where they consider every foreigner reaching the border as the enemy, no matter how young or how ill they may be.

by Ben Reilly Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:25 am

Original Quill wrote:American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

The only logical and moral policy must be to focus on violent criminals above all else.

This might sound unacceptable to many conservatives, but having a father who worked as a non-commissioned employee for a large police department and now being a reporter who covers several police departments, I know first-hand that this is exactly what city police do.

They get a call that someone has a little weed? They're more interested in whether that person also has an illegal weapon. They hear someone's a polygamist? They want to know if children are being abused, too.

We need to return to policing the most harmful people, and you can't do that if you think a person is harmful by default just because they're from Mexico.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:38 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Instead of continuing to "defend the indefensible" with respect to the current US border patrols, Dodge should face up to a few facts :

Those border guards are not highly trained and specially selected military types, nor are they a well-discliplined, trained and qualified police force like one might expect to find in New York or California..

Rather, they often appear to largely consist of the dregs of southern and mid-western "white trash" rednecks and 'Klan offspring -- more akin to the stereotypical untrained and uneducated small town deputies, or those partly-trained National Guard volunteers that GWB sent to Iraq to bolster the troops, or maybe the Immigration&Customs people at '3rd World' airports..

And with the more cruel, vindictive and racist among those border guards feeling even more important and effective under Donnie Trumpster's orders these days, where they consider every foreigner reaching the border as the enemy, no matter how young or how ill they may be.

Hpw are they indefensible?

Because you claim so?

You then make yet again an unfounded and outrageously bullshit load of bollocks up

Show me evidence that the US border guards are not well disciplined and well trained?

This is what is wqrong with the left. They continually invoke load of bullshit based off a story, where origianlly Quill misled the forum with

You then invoke the kinbd of rancid hatred I have come to expect from Quill, by guilt with association, based on people of the south in the US

Its unbelieveable how the left with zero bases have dcided to cast a people which includes Ben by the way as this way

You then even worse claim they are all racist

Were they racist all under Obama?

You see is this kind of bullshit from th left that needs to be constantly exposed

Lets recap the story and even the washington post states that they feed and provide water to all people caught illegally entering the US

That is being humane and the reason these illegals gave themselves up, was becuse they could not provide for themselves

Not only that, they are illegaql immigrants, which makes them criminals

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:42 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Original Quill wrote:American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

The only logical and moral policy must be to focus on violent criminals above all else.

This might sound unacceptable to many conservatives, but having a father who worked as a non-commissioned employee for a large police department and now being a reporter who covers several police departments, I know first-hand that this is exactly what city police do.

They get a call that someone has a little weed? They're more interested in whether that person also has an illegal weapon. They hear someone's a polygamist? They want to know if children are being abused, too.

We need to return to policing the most harmful people, and you can't do that if you think a person is harmful by default just because they're from Mexico.

So what you are saying is that, the Police should not investigate crimes based on US laws

Only the ones that you deem relevant

No wonder the right dispair at the left these days

What you do is change laws on things like for example weed, which many states have already done

You dont blame the Police for doing what they are trained and paid to do, which is uphold the law

Goodness, I dispair at the costant bullshit that comes from the left

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:19 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Original Quill wrote:American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

The only logical and moral policy must be to focus on violent criminals above all else.

This might sound unacceptable to many conservatives, but having a father who worked as a non-commissioned employee for a large police department and now being a reporter who covers several police departments, I know first-hand that this is exactly what city police do.

They get a call that someone has a little weed? They're more interested in whether that person also has an illegal weapon. They hear someone's a polygamist? They want to know if children are being abused, too.

We need to return to policing the most harmful people, and you can't do that if you think a person is harmful by default just because they're from Mexico.

The Border Patrol is not even tasked with policing criminal matters. They are tasked with removing aliens who have come into the US without proper papers.

But they seem to be provoking confrontations that lead to violence, just for the love of causing human suffering and damage. Unless we get a handle on it, the SA will become the SS in our world too.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:19 am

Department of Homeland Security wrote:DHS Statement on Tragic Death of Minor at Border

Last week, on December 6, 2018, a child traveling with her father illegally entered the United States near Antelope Wells, New Mexico. After completing a days-long, dangerous journey through remote and barren terrain, the child, who according to the father had not been able to consume water or food for days, began vomiting, went into sepsis shock and after receiving emergency treatment from U.S. Border Patrol Emergency Response Technicians (EMTs), air paramedics and emergency room personnel, died.

Her death is incredibly tragic. The entire DHS family offers her family their prayers and thoughts. Unfortunately, her death is not unique. Each year, the Border Patrol identifies hundreds of people who either die attempting to illegally enter the United States, are injured in the attempt, or have to be rescued by Border Patrol. This past year alone Border Patrol rescued 4,311 people in distress. While rarely reported, this flood of injured or sick persons encountering our Border Patrol has resulted in the Border Patrol cross-training 1300 agents as EMTs. In this case, unfortunately, we did not encounter the child sooner.

As we have repeatedly said, traveling north illegally into the United States is extremely dangerous. Drug cartels, human smugglers and the elements pose deadly risks to anyone who attempts to cross the border illegally. Once again, we are begging parents to not put themselves or their children at risk by attempting to enter illegally. Please, we are begging you, present yourselves and your children at a port of entry and seek to enter legally and safely.

Below is a more in depth timeline of the event on December 6, 2018, prior to the child’s death on December 8, 2018. On December 6, 2018, at 2115 hours, a seven-year old Guatemalan minor and her father were apprehended within a group of 163 aliens near Forward Operating Base (FOB) Bounds. This is in a remote area of New Mexico adjacent to the Antelope Wells Port of Entry (POE). This large group was apprehended by three Border Patrol agents.

Given the remote location and size of the group they were moved to a covered area within the Bounds FOB (adjacent to the POE). Upon apprehension, the Border Patrol agents conducted an initial screening, which consists of an interview and observation of the detainee to identify any health or safety problems to ensure that they receive necessary medical care. The initial screening revealed no evidence of health issues. During the screening, the father denied that either he or his daughter were ill. This denial was recorded on Form I-779 signed by the father. At this time, they were offered water and food and had access to restrooms.

The Bounds POE and Antelope Wells POE were not constructed to hold any sizeable population of detainees. Therefore, those apprehended in this area are promptly transported to the nearest Border Patrol Station in Lordsburg – approximately 90 minutes away.

Around 2200, a transport bus was moved from the Lordsburg Border Patrol Station to FOB Bounds. It took around two hours for the bus to arrive at Bounds. Given the size of the group, and the capacity of the transport (50 people at a time), agents began transporting the detainees to Lordsburg in separate groups. The first group – unaccompanied alien children - left Bounds for Lordsburg at 0018 on December 7, 2018. It took the bus more than three hours to complete the round trip and return to Bounds for a second group of detainees. The bus returned to Bounds at 0400.

Around 0500, as the second group of detainees – including the child and father – was preparing to depart Bounds, the father advised Border Patrol agents that his child had become sick and was vomiting. Out of an abundance of caution, agents immediately requested that an EMT meet the bus on arrival at the Lordsburg station.

The transport bus arrived at the Lordsburg station shortly before 0630. At that point, the father notified agents that the child was not breathing. Border Patrol EMTs began medical care and requested an ambulance. At this point her temperature was 105.9 degrees. Agents providing medical care revived the child twice. An ambulance arrived at 0640. A decision was made to transport her by helicopter to a hospital (Lordsburg is more than four hours the El Paso Hospital by vehicle). A helicopter arrived at 0730 and departed at 0748. She arrived at Providence Children’s Hospital in El Paso, Texas at 0851. Border Patrol agents transported the father by vehicle to the hospital. The child received emergency room care and was transferred to the Pediatric ICU for additional care. Unfortunately, she passed away at 0035 on December 8, 2018. The initial indication from the Providence Hospital is that she passed due to sepsis shock. Her father was with her. The Guatemalan consulate was notified.

As stated above, the entire DHS community offers their condolences to the family of this child. We thank those Border Patrol agents who rendered life extending aide, and the first responders and emergency medical professionals in New Mexico and Texas who did all they could to save this child.

So contrary to what others are claiming. The Border Guards spend their days actually saving countless lives and here clearly did everything to save the childs life. Now as seen with a group of 160 migrants. Its going to take time to interview and screen before moving them

Some people on here should be ashamed of themselves for once again making this political, racial etc

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:32 am

The Border Patrol and DHS give the same pablum...not our fault...the victim is to blame, On January 4th Congress will become Democratic, and that party vows to open an investigation. Also, the Department of Justice is opening an investigation of their own. This time it promises to be real.

Kirstjen Nielsen, Secretary of Homeland Security, will be called up to the Hill to explain. But she might not even be in the job, as she has fallen out with Trump independent of politics. She was friends with Chief of Staff Kelly, who has already been given the heave-ho. If the WH staff grows thin enough we might be able to hang a murder charge directly on Trump.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:37 am

Original Quill wrote:The Border Patrol and DHS give the same pablum...not our fault. On January 4th Congress will become Democratic, and that party vows to open an investigation. Also, the Department of Justice is opening an investigation of their own.

Kirstjen Nielsen, Secretary of Homeland Security, will be called up to the Hill to explain. But she might not even be in the job, as she has fallen out with Trump independent of politics. She was friends with Chief of Staff Kelly, who has already been given the heave-ho..

Well I am more likely to beleieve people who spend day in and out actually saving the lives, than the deragned rants of some out of touch with reality lefty from California

Even Senator Sen. Jeff Merkley does not believe there is any evidence of wrong doing, but hey, you want everyone to believe the fake news, you constantly try to pass off on this forum, based on your hatred of southern US peple

Again and like I stated earlier, people are placing themselves and even worse their children at risk by these migrations

by 'Wolfie Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:39 am

US Border guards killing children 3408175593

You're the main culprit spreading "fake news" these days, Dodge..

You have overtaken Tommy in that regard these last few months..

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:41 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

You're the main culprit spreading "fake news" these days, Dodge..

You have overtaken Tommy in that regard these last few months..

So again, nothing to counter my points and Wolf leading by Quills example, attempts to deligitimize instead

As seen here Quill did open with a misleading thread

No link was provided, of which he left out important aspects from the Washington post to provide a full story to this incident

In other words, he tried to invent something from the story

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:14 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Instead of continuing to "defend the indefensible" with respect to the current US border patrols, Dodge should face up to a few facts :

Those border guards are not highly trained and specially selected military types, nor are they a well-discliplined, trained and qualified police force like one might expect to find in New York or California..

Rather, they often appear to largely consist of the dregs of southern and mid-western "white trash" rednecks and 'Klan offspring -- more akin to the stereotypical untrained and uneducated small town deputies, or those partly-trained National Guard volunteers that GWB sent to Iraq to bolster the troops, or maybe the Immigration&Customs people at '3rd World' airports..

And with the more cruel, vindictive and racist among those border guards feeling even more important and effective under Donnie Trumpster's orders these days, where they consider every foreigner reaching the border as the enemy, no matter how young or how ill they may be.

Hmmm, I don't think you can judge anyone for being racist when you use terms like "white trash".

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:16 am

Anyway, we don't know what happened after the girl was taken into custody. We don't know if she was given food and water. If she was severely dehydrated anyway, it might not have made a difference.

The thread title is misleading as nobody killed her, and it was one girl, not "children". If a border guard dies, would you say that immigrants are killing guards?

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:36 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Original Quill wrote:American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

The only logical and moral policy must be to focus on violent criminals above all else.

This might sound unacceptable to many conservatives, but having a father who worked as a non-commissioned employee for a large police department and now being a reporter who covers several police departments, I know first-hand that this is exactly what city police do.

They get a call that someone has a little weed? They're more interested in whether that person also has an illegal weapon. They hear someone's a polygamist? They want to know if children are being abused, too.

We need to return to policing the most harmful people, and you can't do that if you think a person is harmful by default just because they're from Mexico.

That sounds reasonable to me. If someone is knowingly doing one thing which is illegal, what are the chances that they're doing something else which is illegal?

by eddie Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:08 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, we don't know what happened after the girl was taken into custody. We don't know if she was given food and water. If she was severely dehydrated anyway, it might not have made a difference.

The thread title is misleading as nobody killed her, and it was one girl, not "children". If a border guard dies, would you say that immigrants are killing guards?

Yes. Misleading title and she was already dehydrated when she reached the border guards. When you sweep away the colourful storytelling, it does seem to be all puff and nonsense.

It’s a shame she died, her father must feel awful for not noticing she was severely unwell and I really don’t suppose the guards laughed and twiddled their moustaches as she lay writhing on the floor gasping for water.

by nicko Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:53 pm

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:44 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The Border Patrol and DHS give the same pablum...not our fault. On January 4th Congress will become Democratic, and that party vows to open an investigation. Also, the Department of Justice is opening an investigation of their own.

Kirstjen Nielsen, Secretary of Homeland Security, will be called up to the Hill to explain. But she might not even be in the job, as she has fallen out with Trump independent of politics. She was friends with Chief of Staff Kelly, who has already been given the heave-ho..

Well I am more likely to beleieve people who spend day in and out actually saving the lives, than the deragned rants of some out of touch with reality lefty from California

Even Senator Sen. Jeff Merkley does not believe there is any evidence of wrong doing, but hey, you want everyone to believe the fake news, you constantly try to pass off on this forum, based on your hatred of southern US peple

Again and like I stated earlier, people are placing themselves and even worse their children at risk by these migrations

No one has said anything about wrongdoing, didge. You are the first to bring it up...do you have some evidence that this death was intentional?

The issue is the callous lack of care. There is an old principle in law: if you undertake care and custody of another, you must take any and all precautions for that person's safety. If this happened in downtown NYC, the child's parents would be taken into custody until it could be determined what went wrong.

This may be intentional, or it may be a lack of care. But, in no way should authorities walk away without determining what went wrong, as the righty's want. It's another example of how the right lacks any sort of humanity.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Instead of continuing to "defend the indefensible" with respect to the current US border patrols, Dodge should face up to a few facts :

Those border guards are not highly trained and specially selected military types, nor are they a well-discliplined, trained and qualified police force like one might expect to find in New York or California..

Rather, they often appear to largely consist of the dregs of southern and mid-western "white trash" rednecks and 'Klan offspring -- more akin to the stereotypical untrained and uneducated small town deputies, or those partly-trained National Guard volunteers that GWB sent to Iraq to bolster the troops, or maybe the Immigration&Customs people at '3rd World' airports..

And with the more cruel, vindictive and racist among those border guards feeling even more important and effective under Donnie Trumpster's orders these days, where they consider every foreigner reaching the border as the enemy, no matter how young or how ill they may be.

Hmmm, I don't think you can judge anyone for being racist when you use terms like "white trash".

I agree...words can be a superficial indicator. Racism exists in deeds. The way to determine who is the racist, is to ask who created 600 years of slavery to segregation.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:

Well I am more likely to beleieve people who spend day in and out actually saving the lives, than the deragned rants of some out of touch with reality lefty from California

Even Senator Sen. Jeff Merkley does not believe there is any evidence of wrong doing, but hey, you want everyone to believe the fake news, you constantly try to pass off on this forum, based on your hatred of southern US peple

Again and like I stated earlier, people are placing themselves and even worse their children at risk by these migrations

No one has said anything about wrongdoing, didge. You are the first to bring it up...do you have some evidence that this death was intentional?

The issue is the callous lack of care. There is an old principle in law: if you undertake care and custody of another, you must take any and all precautions for that person's safety. If this happened in downtown NYC, the child's parents would be taken into custody until it could be determined what went wrong.

This may be intentional, or it may be a lack of care. But, in no way should authorities walk away without determining what went wrong, as the righty's want. It's another example of how the right lacks any sort of humanity.

You seem to have a short memory or a split pesonality then

You certainly invoked wrong doing by the following

Original Quill wrote:American border guards are the brownshirts of our time. After entering the country illegally There is an element of vindictiveness about their conduct, one that goes beyond mere neglect. While they don't overtly engage in active malice, they do go out of their way to position themselves to say 'I told you so.'

This little 7-year old girl is the result. A normal adult would realize that s/he must compensate for the aggressive neglect that this attitude presents, but a young child is defenseless. As soon as Democrats are back in charge they must take steps to disband the Border Patrol, and root out the gangrene that it carries.

Again 163 handed themselves into a border patrol of 3 people in the middle of nowhere. That means 3 people had to interview and assess that many people and are doing this all the time and it was the middle of the night. They provided food and water and the father stated both he and his daught at the time of the interview were well. Only later did she start to become sick and the border patrol called ahead to have medically trained staff to meet them on arrival. Then she progressively got worse. They then revived here after she had stopped breathing. So your claims on due care are baseless.

What is undue care is why this father took one of his daughters with him and left his other children and wife behind? He sought to obatin work and money for his family, but needlessly placed his daughter in great perill through such a journey. She should have stayed with her mother and other siblings. Again taking her was fundementally irresponsible. Which has led sadly to her death. If they had handed themselves in at the border. She would have been very near to proper medical facilities and may have been possible saved. The border patrol are faultless here. Nobody can predict the rapid decline this girl suffered with and handing themselves in far from anything, in such numbers is always going to be difficult to process.

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:01 pm

The thread title itself implies a massive amount of wrong doing really.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:The thread title itself implies a massive amount of wrong doing really.

But legally, there are varying grades of wrongdoing: dereliction of duty, negligence or malefaction, to intentional and knowledgeable lawbreaking. Given the political position of Trump, this one slides over into the range of 'knowledge-you-are-doing-something-wrong', if perhaps not 'intentional, malicious wrong'. Here is Trump illustrating this:

Take didge's position, for example. He would condemn a border agent running up and stabbing the little girl, but he wouldn't mind if she fell over a cliff and they failed to administer first aid. In the first case, even didge would recognize the act as intentional; in the second, he would argue 'assumption of risk' plus say something like, life's a bitch.. US Border guards killing children 2190311264

US Border guards killing children 2190311264

The difference is the humanity involved. The right lacks humanity completely; the left embraces it.

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:The thread title itself implies a massive amount of wrong doing really.

But legally, there are varying grades of wrongdoing: dereliction of duty, negligence or malefaction, to intentional and knowledgeable lawbreaking. Given the political position of Trump, this one slides ovou quite er into the range of 'knowledge-you-are-doing-something-wrong', if perhaps not 'intentional, malicious wrong'. Here is Trump illustrating this:

Take didge's position, for example. He would condemn a border agent running up and stabbing the little girl, but he wouldn't mind if she fell over a cliff and they failed to administer first aid. In the first case, even didge would recognize the act as intentional; in the second, he would argue 'assumption of risk' plus say something like, life's a bitch..

The difference is the humanity involved. The right lacks humanity completely; the left embraces it.

You quite clearly implied that the border guards were acting vindictively and that they deliberately withheld treatment for some time.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But legally, there are varying grades of wrongdoing: dereliction of duty, negligence or malefaction, to intentional and knowledgeable lawbreaking. Given the political position of Trump, this one slides ovou quite er into the range of 'knowledge-you-are-doing-something-wrong', if perhaps not 'intentional, malicious wrong'. Here is Trump illustrating this:

Take didge's position, for example. He would condemn a border agent running up and stabbing the little girl, but he wouldn't mind if she fell over a cliff and they failed to administer first aid. In the first case, even didge would recognize the act as intentional; in the second, he would argue 'assumption of risk' plus say something like, life's a bitch..

The difference is the humanity involved. The right lacks humanity completely; the left embraces it.

You quite clearly implied that the border guards were acting vindictively and that they deliberately withheld treatment for some time.

Yes. I believe that is typical of what the right does--it's officially called 'benign neglect'--and police, including Border Patrolmen, take their clue from this. Catch the applause at the end.

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You quite clearly implied that the border guards were acting vindictively and that they deliberately withheld treatment for some time.

Yes. I believe that is typical of what the right does--it's officially called 'benign neglect'--and police, including Border Patrolmen, take their clue from this. Catch the applause at the end.

So you are accusing them of wrongdoing. Why deny that?

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Yes. I believe that is typical of what the right does--it's officially called 'benign neglect'--and police, including Border Patrolmen, take their clue from this. Catch the applause at the end.

So you are accusing them of wrongdoing. Why deny that?

Because, technically, it's a degree short of beyond a reasonable doubt. They are careful not to blatantly admit it. So, political standards, yes; legal standards, no.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:02 pm

The death has drawn attention to the increasingly perilous routes that Central American migrants traverse to reach the U.S., where some plan to apply for asylum, and to the way migrants are treated once in custody. Jakelin’s family says her father paid a human smuggler to sneak them across the border; asylum wasn’t the plan.

Sadness hangs in the air outside the tiny wooden house with a straw roof, dirt floors, a few bedsheets and a fire pit for cooking where Jakelin used to sleep with her parents and three siblings. The brothers are barefoot, their feet caked with mud and their clothes in tatters. A heart constructed out of wood and wrapped in plastic announces Jakelin’s death.

Grandfather Domingo Caal said the family got by on $5 a day earned harvesting corn and beans. But it wasn’t enough. Jakelin’s father, Nery Caal, decided to migrate with his favorite child to earn money he could send back home. Nery often took his daughter to fish at a nearby river. The long journey north would be an even greater adventure.

The girl leaped with joy when she was told about the trip, Domingo Caal said in Spanish.

The people of San Antonio Secortez, a lush mountain hamlet with 420 inhabitants within the municipality of Raxruha, speak the Mayan Q’eqchi’ language, though most of the men also know Spanish.

Domingo Caal translated for Claudia Maquin as she attempted to describe her daughter’s life while holding back tears. Jakelin liked to climb trees, Claudia said, but she gives few details.

“Every time they ask me what happened to the girl, it hurts me again,” Maquin said.

Members of 13 families from San Antonio Secortez have established homes in the U.S., and community members set off firecrackers to celebrate each time word arrived that one of the townsfolk had made it. The Caals said they believed that Jakelin and Nery would make it, too.

“He was desperate,” Domingo Caal said, explaining that his son borrowed money – using his plot of land as guarantee – to pay for the voyage.

Tekandi Paniagua, the Guatemalan consul in Del Rio, Texas, told The Associated Press that Nery Caal and his daughter took about a week to reach the U.S. border. Paniagua said Caal, 29, told him on Friday that they had been dropped off near the border and walked just an hour and a half to reach it.

They were detained soon afterward along with a large group of other migrants near the Antelope Wells border crossing at about 9:15 p.m. on Dec. 6 in a dry, rugged area flecked with ghost towns and abandoned buildings.

The consul said Caal told him the girl never lacked food or water either before or after they were detained and said he had no complaints about how they were treated.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Friday that the girl initially appeared healthy and that an interview raised no signs of distress. Authorities said her father spoke in Spanish to border agents and signed a form indicating she was in good health.

Jakelin’s death drew immediate questions from members of Congress and others about whether more could have been done. There were only four agents working with a group of 163 migrants, including 50 unaccompanied children, and only one bus to take them to the nearest station 94 miles away. The Homeland Security Department’s inspector general has opened an investigation.

That single bus set out on a several-hour trip to the Border Patrol station filled with unaccompanied minors – following protocol – while the daughter and her father waited for it to return. They left about eight hours after being detained.

Caal told the consul that while they were on the bus, his daughter began to feel warm and uncomfortable and began to vomit, and Caal told the driver that his daughter was ill.

Officials said agents radioed ahead to have emergency medical technicians available in Lordsburg. When they arrived, 90 minutes later, she had stopped breathing. Emergency crews revived her, and she was airlifted to an El Paso, Texas, hospital, to which the father was driven.

The girl died at about 12:30 a.m. Dec. 8, roughly 19 hours after she began throwing up on the bus and 27 hours after being apprehended. Officials said she had swelling on her brain and liver failure. An autopsy was scheduled to determine the cause of death. The results could take weeks.

Paniagua said the father, whom he described as a devout evangelical Christian, now appeared to be “more serene, more stable.”

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/16/border-patrol-death-girl-fled-impoverished-guatemala-village/2329713002/

Which further dispells the lies that Quill has been claiming

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:22 pm

Didge wrote:The consul said Caal told him the girl never lacked food or water either before or after they were detained and said he had no complaints about how they were treated.

And you believe the consul? I don't.

Another problem is the intimidation factor. The Border Patrol are armed personnel, and they would not hesitate to shoot if you pissed them off. You tell them what they want to hear, or they can become most hostile.

The inhumanity of the right is astounding.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:The consul said Caal told him the girl never lacked food or water either before or after they were detained and said he had no complaints about how they were treated.

And you believe the consul? I don't.

Another problem is the intimidation factor. The Border Patrol are armed personnel, and they would not hesitate to shoot if you pissed them off. You tell them what they want to hear, or they can become most hostile.

The inhumanity of the right is astounding.

I beleieve that you are one hell of a hateful paranoid extremist to be honest. That even when presented with corroborating evidence. You still cannot admit when wrong. Not only from the consul but family members themselves

You do exactly what the Far right do. Spread lies through a distorted story in order to spread hate

You lied claiming they were refugees, the family confirmed this was not the case.

You disgustingly called the border patrols Brownshirts and yet they constantly save the lives of migrants

You lied claiming that they were killing children. Where they did everything to save this childs life

The very moment you made the thread title and left out the link to the washinton post article. When it had within this information which conflicted your claims. Showed that you deliberately tried to distort the facts to promote a political agenda and off the death of this child

How you can stoop so low, all because you hate Trump, shows how extreme you have become

Your hate is now against men and women doing their jobs daily in such difficult conditions. Where they have an extremely difficult time doing so. With so few numners, faced with such large numbers of migrants etc. Dont deserve or need some left wing extremist lying and spreading hate against them

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:39 pm

So the girl was with her father when she became ill, despite the earlier report? They don't even seem to know the cause of death yet either. It's a bit stupid to bang on about the "right" when the details aren't yet known.

by Raggamuffin Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So you are accusing them of wrongdoing. Why deny that?

Because, technically, it's a degree short of beyond a reasonable doubt. They are careful not to blatantly admit it. So, political standards, yes; legal standards, no.

But you are accusing them of wrongdoing, so your post to Didge was incorrect.

by JulesV Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:

The way he whips up crowds into committing acts of violence is very unstatesmanlike indeed.

He wants his speeches to be memorable but he's not educated enough to know any uplifting verses from literature, that enrich and nurture the soul [even with so many wonderful US writers to quote from]. So instead he just blatantly taps into the basest human instincts.

by JulesV Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 pm

Original Quill wrote:

And the worst news we would ever expect to hear — the needless death of a child — has reached us today, as reportedly a 7-year-old child who had not eaten or consumed water for several days died an extremely terrifying and painful death from dehydration while in Border Patrol custody.

I think this poor girl must have caught a virus and developed a fever and then gone downhill very quickly.

I find it hard to believe that a normal, fit & healthy 7 yo would go for 3 whole days without requesting food or even water. Goes against human survival instincts for someone to be so intensely hungry and thirsty - and yet not communicate this in any way to others.

What I'm saying here is that there's probably more to this very tragic case, than meets the eye.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:13 pm

Jules wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And the worst news we would ever expect to hear — the needless death of a child — has reached us today, as reportedly a 7-year-old child who had not eaten or consumed water for several days died an extremely terrifying and painful death from dehydration while in Border Patrol custody.

I think this poor girl must have caught a virus and developed a fever and then gone downhill very quickly.

I find it hard to believe that a normal, fit & healthy 7 yo would go for 3 whole days without requesting food or even water. Goes against human survival instincts for someone to be so intensely hungry and thirsty - and yet not communicate this in any way to others.

What I'm saying here is that there's probably more to this very tragic case, than meets the eye.

There certainly would have been signs of dehydration, like sunken eyes, confusion, rapid breathing etc. These would have been visible, but the father claims she was not ill when they were handed themselves in. The border patrol also confirms this. If like I said she had an underlining medical condition. Like a unknown weak heart, high blood pressure etc. Then the onset of a virus, plus possible malnutrition. From the fact she came from poverty. Would have rapidly onset how she became very ill, very quickly Jules.

Its like I said. The very fact they handed themselves in, to a patrol, miles from anywhere, in the middle of nowhere. Plus the fact she appeared okay at the time. Means that little could have been done to save this poor child. If they had no handed themselves in. Sadly the child would have still died. The only possible hope she could have had. Is if the group of migrants handed themselves in at a large border facility. That had local hospitals, but then how was the father to know his child would need to. Being as the illness came on rapidly?

Like I said. I so understand people wanting to migrate and want to better their lives, but to me its irresponsible to take children on this perilous journey. She should have remained with her mother and siblings. Until her father had been able to set up residency in the US. I think he did this to have someone with him, to keep him company and I cannot blame him for that, but by doing so, he did place her at unecessary risk. No child should go on such a perilous journey, when there was never a need that she should.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So the girl was with her father when she became ill, despite the earlier report? They don't even seem to know the cause of death yet either. It's a bit stupid to bang on about the "right" when the details aren't yet known.

You really should read more closely, Raggs. The OP gives you the story right up front. Here is what the OP says:

OP wrote:A 7-year-old girl from Guatemala died of dehydration and shock after she was taken into Border Patrol custody last week for crossing from Mexico into the United States illegally with her father and a large group of migrants along a remote span of New Mexico desert, U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday.

All they give are symptoms: dehydration and shock. She might have been ill on the trip. She might have been ill because of the trip. She might have become ill or sustained injuries after she was in custody. I don't know if the father is a physician, but the US has physicians at their disposal. The only thing that is certain is that the US government couldn't diagnosis, let alone take care of a child in their custody. (At 7-years old, we can be fairly confident that she didn't die of old age.) We don't know who or what caused her shock. But clearly, if her death was even in part caused by dehydration, she wasn't given sufficient water. That is the definition of dehydration.

You do the math. If she died of dehydration while in custody, it means simply enough that she wasn't given water. We have a Constitution in this country. The 8th Amendment of that Constitution provides that the United States shall not subject one to 'cruel and unusual punishment' to those in the care and custody of the government. It appears that the care and custody of the Border Patrol doesn't allow for keeping a detainee alive, and that is cruel and unusual punishment.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:40 pm

Jules wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And the worst news we would ever expect to hear — the needless death of a child — has reached us today, as reportedly a 7-year-old child who had not eaten or consumed water for several days died an extremely terrifying and painful death from dehydration while in Border Patrol custody.

I think this poor girl must have caught a virus and developed a fever and then gone downhill very quickly.

I find it hard to believe that a normal, fit & healthy 7 yo would go for 3 whole days without requesting food or even water. Goes against human survival instincts for someone to be so intensely hungry and thirsty - and yet not communicate this in any way to others.

What I'm saying here is that there's probably more to this very tragic case, than meets the eye.

I agree. The problem is that we may never know, because the US government didn't even care enough to look into it. Now they are making sure to get the cadaver out of the way.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:So the girl was with her father when she became ill, despite the earlier report? They don't even seem to know the cause of death yet either. It's a bit stupid to bang on about the "right" when the details aren't yet known.

You really should read more closely, Raggs. The OP gives you the story right up front. Here is what the OP says:

OP wrote:A 7-year-old girl from Guatemala died of dehydration and shock after she was taken into Border Patrol custody last week for crossing from Mexico into the United States illegally with her father and a large group of migrants along a remote span of New Mexico desert, U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday.

All they give are symptoms: dehydration and shock. She might have been ill on the trip. She might have been ill because of the trip. She might have become ill or sustained injuries after she was in custody. I don't know if the father is a physician, but the US has physicians at their disposal. The only thing that is certain is that the US government couldn't diagnosis, let alone take care of a child in their custody. (At 7-years old, we can be fairly confident that she didn't die of old age.) We don't know who or what caused her shock. But clearly, if her death was even in part caused by dehydration, she wasn't given sufficient water. That is the definition of dehydration.

You do the math. If she died of dehydration while in custody, it means simply enough that she wasn't given water. We have a Constitution in this country. The 8th Amendment of that Constitution provides that the United States shall not subject one to 'cruel and unusual punishment' to those in the care and custody of the government. It appears that the care and custody of the Border Patrol doesn't allow for keeping a detainee alive, and that is cruel and unusual punishment.

Which really proves that you know very little about medical conditions

The story by the Washington post was an early story and since then more factual media stories have since been printed

Allof which you keep ignoring even though they are accounts from the father and his family. That in the main corroborate the border patrols accounts

One thing is clear, is if a girl with a high fever is consistantly vomiting. This is going to lead to dehydration. She may have veen been off food and water, due to havinga virus for a few days. Thus even if the food and water is being offered and not taken by the child or hardly any eaten or drunk. Let alone she is consistantly vomiting. Plus the fact like I say, she could very well be malnourished. Is going to lead to dehydration.

You simple do not know what you are talking about and its your paranoia and hate that is driving your delusions here

The very fact that you simple cannot use your brain and understand. How a child may seem well, but in fact not be so and thus then be put off food and water. This then can lead as seen to further complications. Her father is not going have the medical knowledge that she needs fluids. Yet you immediately suspect fould play, based off no evidence other than again complete paranoia and hate

The father as seen has stated that at no point was they denied water or food

At no point does the father claim they were mistreated.

Only you have contrived to believe this, as it fits into your paranoid hatred

The reality is this. You have no idea and instead wnat to pain a falsehood here, because you simple do not actually care about the child's actual death here. You only care about painting a falsehood in order to promote a polictical agenda

I find that sick and warped, when again all the evidence shows you again deliberately misconstrued the Washington post article, to lie and claim that the border patrol was killing children

The problem with you Quill, is your immediate presumption every single time. Is that Law enforcement are always guilty and you claim to be a lawyer?

What a joke that is

So being the fact you have about as much knowledge of the human body or medical conditions. I suggest you stop promoting crap, that has no bioloigical bases. Through your need to promote a lie against border patrols

by Original Quill Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:58 pm

Didge...'would haves' and 'should haves' and 'may haves' do not a story make. Why doesn't the great US government know? Why, indeed, didn't they find out before the child died?

Putting children in cages? Splitting up families? Now allowing people in custody to die? No democracy. Privileged people above the law. Hi-fiving Saudi murderers... It's a banana republic.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:Didge...'would haves' and 'should haves' and 'may haves' do not a story make. Why doesn't the great US government know? Why, indeed, didn't they find out before the child died?

Putting children in cages? Splitting up families? Now allowing people in custody to die? No democracy. Privileged people above the law. Hi-fiving Saudi murderers... It's a banana republic.

So now we see you divert from the actual individual case here and as stated, make this about the Goverment

By all means go down that road, proving yet again you simple have conceeded the debate on this case

What do you want the Goverment to do?

Open the borders to all the worlds poverty population?

Just how do you think the US can accomadate that problem within their own nation? Within days, the country would simple collapse and people would starve enmass. This is why people like you are clueless. I do not think any migrant children should be held in custody. But what should we do with them, when their parents are caught illegally entering the country? To me, they should be immediately placed back with family members from their countries of origin or relatives that already reside in the US. Though as seen you invoke cages, as if to dehumanise the situation. Again a distortion to invoke anger and hate. No child should be travelling such a perilous journey. Unless its absolutely necessary. In this case, there was no need for this child to travel, but you dont want to look at that fact.

You want to use the situation to promote yoour ideology.

As seen the problems is with groups that are spreading falsehoods to people in these countries. Making them attempt to enter illegally

The US would rather they did the right thing and claimed at the border asylum.

Then on this and Trump denying people claiming asylum. I and others would be on your side, standing against Trumps policy. Where I already stand against his bigoted views, but that has no bearing on the border patrols

This was also happenning under Obama, but at no point did you claim the lies you are making about border patrols

You used to debate with sense, now its politically charged paranoia

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