Removing gender from birth certificate

by veya_victaous Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:26 am

TASMANIA is set to be the first Australian state to completely remove gender from birth certificates in what is being described as a step forward for the state’s transgender residents.
The move would mean transgender people would be able go about tasks where they have to prove their identity, such as applying for jobs, without being forced to disclose their transgender status.
The bill is expected to be put to a vote in Tasmania’s lower house next month, according to The Australian.
The proposed change comes as part of amendments to a bill that puts an end to transgender people having to divorce before than can get their gender changed on official documents.
Christian and feminist groups associated with the Liberal government have lashed out at the motion, with many critics claiming changes made by the Greens and Labor have “hijacked” the original intention of the bill.
The amendments put forward by the latter parties are both in favour of not having a child’s gender displayed on their birth certificate.
Other amendments being pushed by Labor and the Greens call for transgender people to be able to legally change their gender on official documents without having to undergo gender reassignment surgery.
Many countries, including France, Ecuador, Pakistan and many more, already allow transgender people to change their gender marker without the high-risk surgery.
Transgender activist, Martine Delaney, said changes such as these, particularly removing gender markers from birth certificates, will have a significant impact on transgender people.
“It is not doing away with gender. That information would still be recorded by the registrar and medical records in the hospital,” she told The Australian.
“It just simply wouldn’t be displayed on the birth certificate.”

Full Story at
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/tasmania-to-be-first-aussie-state-to-remove-gender-on-birth-certificate/news-story/ec605df2b3d1384a7cff33e9c0db7f87

by Guest Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:27 am

That is fine, if they then are going to have to force this in all walks of life.

If as claimed gender is going to be removed, then it must apply to everything

No bases for sex discrimination anymore. Everyone competes against each other in sport, no matter their birth gender.

So based on a small minority, now the larger majority of men and women, will be denied protection from discrimination within work and no ability to have any kind of numbers, as this will never be recorded.

As seen, anyone can classify themselves as a transwoman or Transman. Thus without gender specification. You have to ensure this applies in all aspects of life.

The tyranny of the minority

by nicko Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:35 am

Minority rules, ok ?

by Guest Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 am

nicko wrote:Minority rules, ok ?

Apparantly so and such a game changer, does not get given to the people as a choice

Its dicided for them by a minority forcing their views on others.

As seen though, they wont dare remove the classifications of sex/gender on job applications

I mean for example, parents may have a preference over who they would like to be a nany for their children.

Anyway, such a system, will do nothing to actually stop discrimination, if employers chose to. As in many cases, its easy to see with the physical eye, that someone is Transgender. Just as it is to see when someone is male or female. Only on the odd rare occasion will people be mistaken. So such a policy will not have any impact what so ever. Again the tyranny of a political ideological bunch of extremists.

No wonder more and more people around the world are shifting to the right

by veya_victaous Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:59 am

Didge wrote:That is fine, if they then are going to have to force this in all walks of life.

If as claimed gender is going to be removed, then it must apply to everything

No bases for sex discrimination anymore. Everyone competes against each other in sport, no matter their birth gender.

So based on a small minority, now the larger majority of men and women, will be denied protection from discrimination within work and no ability to have any kind of numbers, as this will never be recorded.

As seen, anyone can classify themselves as a transwoman or Transman. Thus without gender specification. You have to ensure this applies in all aspects of life.

The tyranny of the minority

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us Razz

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

by Guest Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:04 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:That is fine, if they then are going to have to force this in all walks of life.

If as claimed gender is going to be removed, then it must apply to everything

No bases for sex discrimination anymore. Everyone competes against each other in sport, no matter their birth gender.

So based on a small minority, now the larger majority of men and women, will be denied protection from discrimination within work and no ability to have any kind of numbers, as this will never be recorded.

As seen, anyone can classify themselves as a transwoman or Transman. Thus without gender specification. You have to ensure this applies in all aspects of life.

The tyranny of the minority

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

I am showing up the hypocrisy of the left, denying millions of people the right to be defined by their gender on their birth certificate.

Science again, as I easily proved to you, shows, that there is only 3.

Male
Female
Intersex

Now if people want to assign themselves transgender when adult, no problem, but that should be the choice of an adult, when they are of a mental capacity

Its as simple as that

by Original Quill Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:05 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:That is fine, if they then are going to have to force this in all walks of life.

If as claimed gender is going to be removed, then it must apply to everything

No bases for sex discrimination anymore. Everyone competes against each other in sport, no matter their birth gender.

So based on a small minority, now the larger majority of men and women, will be denied protection from discrimination within work and no ability to have any kind of numbers, as this will never be recorded.

As seen, anyone can classify themselves as a transwoman or Transman. Thus without gender specification. You have to ensure this applies in all aspects of life.

The tyranny of the minority

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

Because the RW says so. Always remember, the RW is authoritarian and regimenting. There is no logical imperative afoot. Just the RW demanding it be so.

Conservatives see the world in dichotomies: reward/punishment; legal/illegal; right/wrong. If there is going to be anything good, there has to be a counter-balancing bad.

by Fred Moletrousers Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

Because the RW says so. Always remember, the RW is authoritarian and regimenting. There is no logical imperative afoot. Just the RW demanding it be so.

Conservatives see the world in dichotomies: reward/punishment; legal/illegal; right/wrong. If there is going to be anything good, there has to be a counter-balancing bad.

There does not have to be a "counter-balancinbg bad; human nature dictates that there will be a counter-balancing bad.

So, by your definition, we should be obliged unquestioningly to accept and accede to the counter-balancing bad?

I think if you look at the history of the former Left Wing-controlled Eastern Europe you will find that your "dichotomies" are far from being exclusive manifestations of conservatism.

by Original Quill Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:21 pm

Fred M. wrote:So, by your definition, we should be obliged unquestioningly to accept and accede to the counter-balancing bad?

No, I am not a conservative. Remember, I said:

Original Quill wrote:Conservatives see the world in dichotomies

It's a trait of consevatives to see the world in dichotomies:

Fred M. wrote:There does not have to be a "counter-balancinbg bad; human nature dictates that there will be a counter-balancing bad.

The only time when there is a counter-balancing effect is when you employ a system that works that way. Like water finding a common level. A rock, however, has no systemic functioning, and it just is.

Fred M. wrote:I think if you look at the history of the former Left Wing-controlled Eastern Europe you will find that your "dichotomies" are far from being exclusive manifestations of conservatism.

There never have been "former Left Wing-controlled Eastern European[s]", as they have all been authoritarian dictatorships, which are by definition, right wing. The left wing tends toward open societies...that's what liberal means.

When you insist that the world works according to some pattern, you work against any metaphysical concept involving freedom. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel comes to mind. It is no coincidence he received his doctorate in divinity, because his precursor was the Roman Church...also a closed system, with a Geist at the top. All authoritarian systems work against the concept of freedom.

by Guest Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

Because the RW says so. Always remember, the RW is authoritarian and regimenting. There is no logical imperative afoot. Just the RW demanding it be so.

Conservatives see the world in dichotomies: reward/punishment; legal/illegal; right/wrong. If there is going to be anything good, there has to be a counter-balancing bad.

Well what right does a Totalitarian leftist government have a right to deny the sex of an individual from birth?

Its a biological fact, that there is male, female and intersex in humans.

Thus his is denying the gender identity of the vast majority. Which will just lead to more problems, than how it sets out to do good. This is often the case with hair brained schemes by the extreme left

They do not, espcially, when such distinctions are used in Jobs, sports, law etc. Its just another hair brained scheme that thinks this will protect transgenders from discrimination

It does not. As seen, people can see with the naked eye, whether someone is male or female 99.999% of the time. Where there is little you can do to stop someone individually being prejudiced. This happens all the time to men, women, ethnic groups, disabled etc being discriminated against, and thus removing the gender on the birth certificate. Is not going to make a slightest bit of difference to this. You would have to show collective evidence by how they were then discriminating against a group. What you need to do is teach people to treat each other equally under the law. This however is being forced onto everyone, without their say so. Just in order to pander to the tyranny of a minute extreme ideological minority

by veya_victaous Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:39 am

Why would there be right to have gender on birth certificate, that's just wank on your behalf..

And YOUR WRONG about gender
GET OVER IT !!!

I don't Care how much you cry about it. Your Abrahamic god is dead and so is his preconceptions

by 'Wolfie Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:32 am

And all the while, this discussion is unfolding in Tasmania..

The most conservative state in Oz, with a population smaller than most mainland cities.

by Guest Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:Why would there be right to have gender on birth certificate, that's just wank on your behalf..

And YOUR WRONG about gender
GET OVER IT !!!

I don't Care how much you cry about it. Your Abrahamic god is dead and so is his preconceptions

Well considering I am an athiest and this has nothing to do with religion but science and the trans activitists are acting like religious fundementalist trying to enforce this belief on people. You need to see how ridiculous your view is and how it panders to how and when beliefs are forced onto people. That have no scietific bases. So using the religioius card, is so ironic and again shows how you even worse pander to the same poor methodology as the religious

So I am not wrong at all and science says you are wrong, as I easly explained

This is another sign of inequality and everyone has a right to have sex on their birth certificate

Its not down for governements to deny scientific facts on biology, to pander to a very small minority. That do not even represent all trans people.

What happens then, is they have rights over the rest. Where again this will not help achieve anything over the perceived problem around prejudice on employment. As under human rights people have to declare what gender, ethnicity, religion etc they are, on a Job application. So why then is Transgenders getting preferential treatment over the rest? As what is effectivelly happenning, is they are trying to remove Trans from this and declare them as biologically the opposite sex. Which is as seen is a complete lie biologicaly. They are certainly trans, but not the opposite sex. This is them trying to force onto people their political ideologies.

That is inequality

As again what should happen, is as it does now, that nobody should be discriminated against for who they are, no matter if they are trans.

Again I have nothing against people who are trans and would not discriminate against them in employment or anything else, but they cannot force beliefs onto people that are not biological.

by veya_victaous Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:27 am

But apparently (in the other trans thread) you don't believe in the Scientifically denied biological method of determining 'sex' Rolling Eyes

AND ANYWAY
Australians don't have to declare their gender, ethnicity or religion in job applications
It seems very odd to me that you would, we don't have to declare age and several other things either
So we are not being discriminated against since I have never declared ethnicity or religion on a resume or job application Employers have not been able to ask that since before I entered the work force, which was 20 years ago
(so Your whole argument is over at this point I think Cool

)

HOWEVER
Employers in certain industries/positions can as to see birth/naturalization/residency certificates and/or driver licenses/etc.
This just means that the Trans person that HAS already been able to change their gender on their drivers license.
doesn't have to declare they're trans, if they present as male and have male on their license it does become apparent when their birth certificate says female.

We are talking about getting rid of Gender on Drivers licenses too G'Day

by Guest Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:31 am

veya_victaous wrote:But apparently (in the other trans thread) you don't believe in the Scientifically denied biological method of determining 'sex'

AND ANYWAY
Australians don't have to declare their gender, ethnicity or religion in job applications
It seems very odd to me that you would, we don't have to declare age and several other things either
So we are not being discriminated against since I have never declared ethnicity or religion on a resume or job application Employers have not been able to ask that since before I entered the work force, which was 20 years ago
(so Your whole argument is over at this point I think )

HOWEVER
Employers in certain industries/positions can as to see birth/naturalization/residency certificates and/or driver licenses/etc.
This just means that the Trans person that HAS already been able to change their gender on their drivers license.
doesn't have to declare they're trans, if they present as male and have male on their license it does become apparent when their birth certificate says female.

We are talking about getting rid of Gender on Drivers licenses too

The reason its put in, is because of discrimination and to help collect data.

Thus in Australia, you would have no idea to prove discrimination and through the use of data on employees

I fail to see why they cannot define themselves as trans and is basically denying who they are.

Which defeats the object of their very claim

You see, your argument makes no sense and again, this is not the whole trans communit, but a fringe, trying to push their beliefs onto everyone

Well getting rid of gender would mean, it does not exist and thus you would have to again apply the same to everything

Then men can then enter any sports for women in Australia and leave women completely disavantaged

You cannot have it both ways

Not only that, how then can you claim gender discrimination?

There then would be no such thing to claim as sexist anymore

You certainly have to handed to the Australian left to fuck things up for women and their rights

by Guest Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:32 am

Right have to work, have a nice day

by veya_victaous Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:49 am

SO your issue is as I said in the other thread that the English Language doesn't have enough gender pronouns?

I agree, the Polynesian's language is superior in that regard, the chromosomes are in brackets

Tagata(XY) and Tamaitai(XX) preform the 'masculine' roles that involve traveling away from settlement (Hunting, fishing, gathering, trade, raiding etc)

Fafine(XX) and Fa'afafine(XY) preform the 'feminine' roles that stay around the settlement (Crafts, child raising, crop tending etc)

in a example of their progressive gender construct, the names for each gender derive from their roles in society rather than their genitals.

It would be interesting to see how they did traditionally split roles and if they actually perceived them to be masculine or feminine before the 'Abrahamists' came with their Gender construct that is embedded in their religion ...
Unfortunately a lot of the specific of their Pre European contact culture is lost and we rely on the biased views of Europeans describing things with their own cultural preconceptions and largely didn't bother to record the specifics.

by JulesV Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:56 pm

I will never judge anyone with gender issues, or moralise. It's not my place. But frankly I like the straightforward, ultrasimple concept of two distinct genders, purely from a lazy point of view.

If blurring of genders becomes commonplace or if there's total removal of the concept of genders, the very fabric of the language itself would have to change. He/she/him/her would all become obsolete and probably would be replaced with ugly, cringey terms. Eww.

Let alone the upheaval in the social structure. Loo's, changing rooms etc. CBA with it all.

by 'Wolfie Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:24 pm

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Why?
why does any of that have to be true?
we don't have to ensure any of that,
are You going to make us

things don't have be just binary
there is plenty of room for something in between

when it comes to laws it is pretty much always the case that something in between either extreme is better.

I am showing up the hypocrisy of the left, denying millions of people the right to be defined by their gender on their birth certificate.

Science again, as I easily proved to you, shows, that there is only 3.

Male
Female
Intersex

Now if people want to assign themselves transgender when adult, no problem, but that should be the choice of an adult, when they are of a mental capacity

Its as simple as that

Really now, Dodger ???

Show us one single country or state where your mythical "hypocrisy of the left.." is actually "denying millions of people.." the right to identify their gender..

by Original Quill Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:32 pm

Jules wrote:I will never judge anyone with gender issues, or moralise. It's not my place. But frankly I like the straightforward, ultrasimple concept of two distinct genders, purely from a lazy point of view.

If blurring of genders becomes commonplace or if there's total removal of the concept of genders, the very fabric of the language itself would have to change. He/she/him/her would all become obsolete and probably would be replaced with ugly, cringey terms. Eww.

Let alone the upheaval in the social structure. Loo's, changing rooms etc. CBA with it all.

I understand totally. But I'm completely the opposite. I like the variety and diversity in people. Like race, the idea of two and only two genders is a man-made convention.

Nature doesn't come with an instruction booklet, with the plan all worked out; we, the humans, write the book that says blacks are inferior, or there should be two and only two types of sexes. Evolution teaches there there was no plan, it all came about by chance, discovery and utility...Oh look...if we make this one bipedal and give him opposable thumbs, look what he can do!

Only, there were no designers around to speak those words. It just is. The very richness of variety--the many, many chances--is what makes our species (and others) survivable. That richness of variety is quite beautiful, I says. Laughing

by Guest Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:29 pm

veya_victaous wrote:SO your issue is as I said in the other thread that the English Language doesn't have enough gender pronouns?

I agree, the Polynesian's language is superior in that regard, the chromosomes are in brackets

Tagata(XY) and Tamaitai(XX) preform the 'masculine' roles that involve traveling away from settlement (Hunting, fishing, gathering, trade, raiding etc)

Fafine(XX) and Fa'afafine(XY) preform the 'feminine' roles that stay around the settlement (Crafts, child raising, crop tending etc)

in a example of their progressive gender construct, the names for each gender derive from their roles in society rather than their genitals.

It would be interesting to see how they did traditionally split roles and if they actually perceived them to be masculine or feminine before the 'Abrahamists' came with their Gender construct that is embedded in their religion ...
Unfortunately a lot of the specific of their Pre European contact culture is lost and we rely on the biased views of Europeans describing things with their own cultural preconceptions and largely didn't bother to record the specifics.

1) It already has enough

Male, female, transmale, transwoman

That is all that is needed

2) Really and sincew whe were you fluent in the many polynesian languages?

So your claim to superior, when we have 4, just defeated your own argument and you provided zero link

I wonder why lol

3) I see you ran away from the point on sports and sexism etc

Quelle surprise

4) Who cares about religious views on gender?

That has nothing to do with science and neither does your invented claims around gender

by Guest Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:30 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Didge wrote:

I am showing up the hypocrisy of the left, denying millions of people the right to be defined by their gender on their birth certificate.

Science again, as I easily proved to you, shows, that there is only 3.

Male
Female
Intersex

Now if people want to assign themselves transgender when adult, no problem, but that should be the choice of an adult, when they are of a mental capacity

Its as simple as that

Really now, Dodger ???

Show us one single country or state where your mythical "hypocrisy of the left.." is actually "denying millions of people.." the right to identify their gender..

Well Your own for a start and now Tazmania

by 'Wolfie Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:51 am

No, Dodger...

It doesn't, yet -- and the Tassie gov't is still only discussing that proposal...

Also :

* It's only in Tassie -- not the whole country;

* Tasmania has a conservative government;

* Tasmania's population is barely half a million poor lost souls..

Anyways, it's not like their proposal will actually deny anyone the right to identify themselves by their actual gender ?

by Guest Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:26 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

No, Dodger...

It doesn't, yet -- and the Tassie gov't is still only discussing that proposal...

Also :

* It's only in Tassie -- not the whole country;

* Tasmania has a conservative government;

* Tasmania's population is barely half a million poor lost souls..

Anyways, it's not like their proposal will actually deny anyone the right to identify themselves by their actual gender ?

Well this has been amended by the to remove gender from the birth certificate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor%E2%80%93Green_Accord

How is these two conservative?

by 'Wolfie Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:07 am

The Tasmanians had an election two years ago, voting in a conservative government and putting the Labour/Greens coalition onto the Opposition benches...

Even when the Labor Party has been in government in Tassie, they still behave like a pretty conservative mob -- siding too often with the forestry, mining and tourism companies and against local communities.. Basketball

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:32 am

Science only determines Biological sex
Society determines genders
Removing gender from birth certificate 3893789544

by Guest Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:Science only determines Biological sex
Society determines genders

So you are saying beliefs do

So you want to go backwards to archaic outdated religious beliefs and force those onto people when they have no bioloigical bases and only to pander to some of the extreme trans community, who do not speak for the entire Trans community

Science should very much help shape society and has done so, with the advancement of science

Maybe next you will tell me society determines how we ignore climate change, by ignoring the science

by Original Quill Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:16 pm

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Science only determines Biological sex
Society determines genders

So you are saying beliefs do

So you want to go backwards to archaic outdated religious beliefs and force those onto people when they have no bioloigical bases and only to pander to some of the extreme trans community, who do not speak for the entire Trans community

Science should very much help shape society and has done so, with the advancement of science

Maybe next you will tell me society determines how we ignore climate change, by ignoring the science

Religion need have nothing to do with it. Another rabbit hole.

The point is that physiology is one thing. Human convention is another. Just like race is a human convention, so too is gender.

by Victorismyhero Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:27 pm

can you imagine in a few years time

some "person" is found duffed up and robbed in the street
cop says did you see who did it

yes says yje person...it was a man about 30 years old and dark skinned

Right says the cop....I'm arresting you for gender ageist and race crime......

by Guest Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So you are saying beliefs do

So you want to go backwards to archaic outdated religious beliefs and force those onto people when they have no bioloigical bases and only to pander to some of the extreme trans community, who do not speak for the entire Trans community

Science should very much help shape society and has done so, with the advancement of science

Maybe next you will tell me society determines how we ignore climate change, by ignoring the science

Religion need have nothing to do with it. Another rabbit hole.

The point is that physiology is one thing. Human convention is another. Just like race is a human convention, so too is gender.

I suggest you speak to Veya, who actually brought religion up

The point on religion and social gender activists, is basically the same. Irrational beliefs, based on myths

by Guest Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:38 pm

Lord Foul wrote:can you imagine in a few years time

some "person" is found duffed up and robbed in the street
cop says did you see who did it

yes says yje person...it was a man about 30 years old and dark skinned

Right says the cop....I'm arresting you for gender ageist and race crime......

+1

Excellent point and the suspect only has to do a quick change of gender to deny they are they suspect

This is the absurd and dangereous world that the PC left is creating

by veya_victaous Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:35 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So you are saying beliefs do

So you want to go backwards to archaic outdated religious beliefs and force those onto people when they have no bioloigical bases and only to pander to some of the extreme trans community, who do not speak for the entire Trans community

Science should very much help shape society and has done so, with the advancement of science

Maybe next you will tell me society determines how we ignore climate change, by ignoring the science

Religion need have nothing to do with it. Another rabbit hole.

The point is that physiology is one thing. Human convention is another. Just like race is a human convention, so too is gender.

I suggest you speak to Veya, who actually brought religion up

The point on religion and social gender activists, is basically the same. Irrational beliefs, based on myths

Quill said exactly what i am saying
"physiology is one thing(biological sex). Human convention is another(gender)."

Religion has played a large part in forming our social conventions
and while religion may have defined gender through myths and fables
the Current push to redefine gender is in response to a change in 'medical technology'
it is just another case of Technology changing what is possible and adapting our society in response to that.

it not a myth/magic any more, that's the point.
Peoples who in the past may have harbored a secret desire to change genders,
had no choice but accept that would never come to be with out the help of 'magic'
Now have the option thanks to science making 'magic' happen

by Guest Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:16 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

I suggest you speak to Veya, who actually brought religion up

The point on religion and social gender activists, is basically the same. Irrational beliefs, based on myths

Quill said exactly what i am saying
"physiology is one thing(biological sex). Human convention is another(gender)."

Religion has played a large part in forming our social conventions
and while religion may have defined gender through myths and fables
the Current push to redefine gender is in response to a change in 'medical technology'
it is just another case of Technology changing what is possible and adapting our society in response to that.

it not a myth/magic any more, that's the point.
Peoples who in the past may have harbored a secret desire to change genders,
had no choice but accept that would never come to be with out the help of 'magic'
Now have the option thanks to science making 'magic' happen

And you fail to see that you are guilty of doing the same

It is religious political ideologies that have held sway and created laws based on their beliefs for centuries

This is no different here with your absurd and backward ideas on gender, which you wish to force onto people that have no bases in science

Nobody said that people with conditions like transgender is a myth. What is a myth is people with extreme political ideological beliefs peddalling claims gender is a social construct, that is a myth. Just like many religious myths that have been forced onto society

Hence why myths should never be the bases for policy in society

What you fail to see Veya, is the real damage such ideological political dumb beliefs can have on society. How creating now over 70 gender identifications, just creates the posssibility for yet more discrimination, by dividing people yet further into identity politics. That has no bases in science. These classifcations are simple invented to pander to the smallest amount of etreme political ideologists, that are trying to force their beliefs onto society. That has gotten so bad. That even in Canada, you can criminalized by law, for misgendering someone. Hence the brilliant point made by Lord Foul. This is the failings of left wing politics. As much is there is many problems with right wings politics. And where we see a view to do good from left wing politics, sadly, it has been hijacked and often by extremist idiots, that wish to push their beliefs onto society, with damaging implications. That do nothing to actually combat any prejudice suffered by Trans people within society.

To remove the gender classification, a scientific reality from people, is simple only going to lead to countless problems within society. You basically render their ever being a case for sexism redundent. As anyone can claim what gender they are and thus redner any ability to tackle discrimination imposssible. It will also leave many women, susceptible to even more discrimination. Hence why I think this is about the most dumbest idea pushed forward by the left.

by JulesV Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:I will never judge anyone with gender issues, or moralise. It's not my place. But frankly I like the straightforward, ultrasimple concept of two distinct genders, purely from a lazy point of view.

If blurring of genders becomes commonplace or if there's total removal of the concept of genders, the very fabric of the language itself would have to change. He/she/him/her would all become obsolete and probably would be replaced with ugly, cringey terms. Eww.

Let alone the upheaval in the social structure. Loo's, changing rooms etc. CBA with it all.

I understand totally. But I'm completely the opposite. I like the variety and diversity in people. Like race, the idea of two and only two genders is a man-made convention.

Nature doesn't come with an instruction booklet, with the plan all worked out; we, the humans, write the book that says blacks are inferior, or there should be two and only two types of sexes. Evolution teaches there there was no plan, it all came about by chance, discovery and utility...Oh look...if we make this one bipedal and give him opposable thumbs, look what he can do!

Only, there were no designers around to speak those words. It just is. The very richness of variety--the many, many chances--is what makes our species (and others) survivable. That richness of variety is quite beautiful, I says.

Hiya luv. You are known for your tolerant and accepting attitude towards all your fellow humans. An admirable trait that reflects well on you, and on your upbringing, Quill.x

I don't judge people who have gender issues, but my one reservation is that undoubtedly a small percentage of them are blatantly taking the p1ss. Mad

Like people who want to be male one day & female the next, and keep alternating daily. Hello??? What a Face

A small minority of fruitloops are using gender as a vehicle to indulge their attentionseeking & exhibitionism. They hitched a ride on the gender wagon.

Another thing - their lifestyle impacts significantly on the structure of society. Adjustments will need to be made by everyone, in all areas, to accommodate the many changes they want in society. I'm not ready to start jumping thru hoops for a few self indulgent attentionseekers. They spoil things for the genuine ones who suffer real inner turmoil.

by nicko Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:11 pm

Well said Jules !

by Original Quill Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:12 pm

Jules wrote:I don't judge people who have gender issues, but my one reservation is that undoubtedly a small percentage of them are blatantly taking the p1ss. Mad Like people who want to be male one day & female the next, and keep alternating daily. Hello??? What a Face A small minority of fruitloops are using gender as a vehicle to indulge their attentionseeking & exhibitionism. They hitched a ride on the gender wagon.

I don't believe that for a minute. “Taking the piss”? You are saying that "a small minority [are] fruitloops"? What does that mean? Are you saying they are disingenuous? What proof do you have?

You say they are indulging "their attention seeking"? A lot of people are indulging attention seeking...that is what advertising is all about. That is what getting good grades is all about. We all try to make our mark in the world. If you are saying that they are being what they would otherwise not be…what is the ‘otherwise’ and where is your evidence for that?

Jules wrote:Another thing - their lifestyle impacts significantly on the structure of society. Adjustments will need to be made by everyone, in all areas, to accommodate the many changes they want in society. I'm not ready to start jumping thru hoops for a few self indulgent attentionseekers. They spoil things for the genuine ones who suffer real inner turmoil.

Every time a woman gives birth to a baby, "adjustments...need to be made by everyone". That's true even for you. For some, the adjustments are small, for some they are large. Who are we to barge into the world and demand: 'you give me mine, but don't ask for yours?'

by Guest Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:20 pm

Dr. Debra Soh, Neuroscientist: 26:05

Click on the time above and it will take you straight to what you need to learn Quill by Dr Debra Soh. You can listen to this all if you like, but her part is about 12 mins

by JulesV Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:10 am

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:I don't judge people who have gender issues, but my one reservation is that undoubtedly a small percentage of them are blatantly taking the p1ss. Mad Like people who want to be male one day & female the next, and keep alternating daily. Hello??? What a Face A small minority of fruitloops are using gender as a vehicle to indulge their attentionseeking & exhibitionism. They hitched a ride on the gender wagon.

I don't believe that for a minute. “Taking the piss”? You are saying that "a small minority [are] fruitloops"? What does that mean? Are you saying they are disingenuous? What proof do you have?

You say they are indulging "their attention seeking"? A lot of people are indulging attention seeking...that is what advertising is all about. That is what getting good grades is all about. We all try to make our mark in the world. If you are saying that they are being what they would otherwise not be…what is the ‘otherwise’ and where is your evidence for that?

Jules wrote:Another thing - their lifestyle impacts significantly on the structure of society. Adjustments will need to be made by everyone, in all areas, to accommodate the many changes they want in society. I'm not ready to start jumping thru hoops for a few self indulgent attentionseekers. They spoil things for the genuine ones who suffer real inner turmoil.

Every time a woman gives birth to a baby, "adjustments...need to be made by everyone". That's true even for you. For some, the adjustments are small, for some they are large. Who are we to barge into the world and demand: 'you give me mine, but don't ask for yours?'

Quill, the only people I'm criticising here are the tiny fringe element. You do realise that every valid political movement gets hijacked by small highly vocal extreme groups?

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