How Brexiteers were duped

"It will be easy" They brayed.
"It will have no impact on us Brits". They chortled.

But Tory papers like the Mail and the Scum now admit there WILL be a massive impact, residents permits, visas to visit France as a minimum, and full border controls outward from Britain to enter Europe.

Sort of contradicts the drivel spouted by stupid and gullible Brexiteers such as Tom and Nicko.



https://dailym.ai/2PEoKMO

France publishes a draft law for No Deal Brexit including checks at Calais and visas for Brits

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7522068/france-brexit-visas-brits/


They can make as many restrictions on visiting Brita as they damned well like.

And there is fuck all we can do about it.

Fuck off andy, what they do to us we can do to them, if anyone has the guts, [sadly lacking today] !

nicko wrote:Fuck off andy,    what they do to us we can do to them,    if anyone has the guts,  [sadly lacking today] !

Your legacy will be that your kids and grandkida will hate you for your stupidity, borne out of selfishness.

Little wonder France and mainland Europe will demand visas for Brits. They know how many far right racists, Nationalists, Britain First, EDL and National Action thugs there are hiding in the suburbs.

nicko wrote:Fuck off andy,    what they do to us we can do to them,    if anyone has the guts,  [sadly lacking today] !

So they'd have visa restrictions when travelling to one country (which is prohibitively expensive for many anyway); while we'll have visa restrictions when travelling to 26 other countries we previously had free access too.

Yeah, nicko, that sounds that a reaaaaaaaaaally good deal, doesn't it?

But then again, a 'good deal' isn't something you Brexiteers are interested in, is it

its about time foreign travel was curtailled anyway, 90% of "business" travel is just an excuse for a jolly for the gaffers and foreign holidays are a total and , in the light of climate change unsupportable ...luxury.

Lord Foul wrote:its about time foreign travel was curtailled anyway, 90% of "business" travel is just an excuse for a jolly for the gaffers and foreign holidays are a total and , in the light of climate change unsupportable ...luxury.

Curtailed only for Brits in this case. The rest of Europe still get to enjoy visa free travel. Plus, visa costs will hardly stop anyone, they'll just add a minor expense. It's the longer queuing that people will moan about

but you just said "So they'd have visa restrictions when travelling to one country (which is prohibitively expensive for many anyway)"

Its a load of europhillic Bull shit just to justify staying in a dictatorship....things worked perfectly well BEFORE the EU...
just the present load of snowflakes who whant instant gratification....i want a trio and i want one NOW.....

I dont see why you stand there cheering on the biggest cause of SME failures in the world.....
why you in this one instance act as a big corporation shill

Lord Foul wrote:but you just said   "So they'd have visa restrictions when travelling to one country (which is prohibitively expensive for many anyway)"

Visa free travel to 26 other nations, Vic, just not the UK.

Nothing has been ironed out yet, but....Brits spend billions holidaying in other countries, if they were hampered so much they stopped visiting EU countries I have a feeling those countries would suffer more than us Brits.

This childish blackmail (because thats what it amounts to) by the EU just strengthens the feelings of many who voted out, that they will be better off by not being tied to such spiteful losers.

so who visits 26 other nations on a regular basis???

90% of foreign holidays are repeated one destination jobs......and once perhaps twice a year.....

and unnecessary, again 90% go to say spain and go straight to a brit bar and second stop is a chippy

and again this leads into the point of sustainability

all those "holiday flights" oooh the carbon footprint

Lord Foul wrote:Its a load of europhillic Bull shit just to justify staying in a dictatorship....things worked perfectly well BEFORE the EU...
just the present load of snowflakes who whant instant gratification....i want a trio and i want one NOW.....

Yeah, like Murdoch's Sun and the Mail are really against Brexit.

Lord Foul wrote:and again this leads into the point of sustainability

all those "holiday flights" oooh the carbon footprint

Granted, but how many people holiday abroad more than once a year?

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and again this leads into the point of sustainability

all those "holiday flights" oooh the carbon footprint

Granted, but how many people holiday abroad more than once a year?

Us about 3 times, and lots of people we know do too.
Whats more I wont stop.....If the worst came to the worse I would queue up....small price to pay for a few weeks in the sun.

Syl wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and again this leads into the point of sustainability

all those "holiday flights" oooh the carbon footprint

Granted, but how many people holiday abroad more than once a year?

Us about 3 times, and lots of people we know do too.
Whats more I wont stop.....If the worst came to the worse I would queue up....small price to pay for a few weeks in the sun.

3 times

Lucky you. No so lucky for the planet but lucky you

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:

Us about 3 times, and lots of people we know do too.
Whats more I wont stop.....If the worst came to the worse I would queue up....small price to pay for a few weeks in the sun.

3 times

Lucky you. No so lucky for the planet but lucky you

Well we are a one car family Eilzel, so maybe we make up for our selfishness in that way.

Syl wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:

Us about 3 times, and lots of people we know do too.
Whats more I wont stop.....If the worst came to the worse I would queue up....small price to pay for a few weeks in the sun.

3 times

Lucky you. No so lucky for the planet but lucky you

Well we are a one car family Eilzel, so maybe we make up for our selfishness in that way.

I'll tell you what pisses me off about you Andy,
Your quite happy to be dictated to by the EU, but in the last war we lost thousands of lives to stop us being under the thumb of an European !
But you have an Spitfire as your Avator, a plane that stood for FREEDOM from a foreign dictator. You fucking HYPOCRITE !!!!

PS. The man that designed it , Mitchell, was a Tory !
Suck on that loser !

nicko wrote:I'll tell you what pisses me off about you Andy,
Your quite happy to be dictated to by the EU,   but in the last war we lost thousands of lives to stop us being under the thumb of an European !
But you have an Spitfire as your Avator, a plane that stood for FREEDOM from a foreign dictator.   You fucking HYPOCRITE !!!!

Stop bleating ,and whining,
My Spitfire shows my HATRED of the far right extremists that you so much fawn up to and pander to.

Not sure whether Nicko realises that the British Empire died 50 or 60 years ago.
We are no longer a GREAT country, despite our name. We are a United Kingdom of England Moreland Scotland and Wales, and are regarded as insignificant in trading terms with pretty much the rest of the world.

Yawn...!


So... might have to get a 'visa ' stamp in my passport if I go to an EU country on holiday... so what!!!???

That happens in every other country I've ever been on holiday to... so what does it matter...!!!???

Getting our democracy back is paramount!!!

"YOUR" Spitfire ? you'd be more at home with a Messerschmitt 109 !!

nicko wrote:"YOUR" Spitfire ?  you'd be more at home with a Messerschmitt 109 !!

That is Herr Monk.

"i'v never met a caring, sharing and compassion Tory", Tories and far right wingers, all liars !
I,m a Tory and proud of it !So that's what you are calling me ! You should get out more and mix with good decent people instead of the losers you talk to.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6289863/Government-prepares-10-000-LORRIES-parked-Kents-roads-post-Brexit.html

The building of the 10000 capacity lorry park on the M26 has already started.  Drivers can expect delays of 15 + hours. Which is 2 days due to Tachograph regulations.

Read it and weep.

"Fake news" will bleat Tommy and Nicko.

It is in their beloved Mail.

We didn't have Visa's in 1945, but were still welcomed by most !

It all boils down to this:

People are shit scared of change. Or the thought of change. Or the thought of thinking about change.
Relax. Watch and see.

Know what’s going to change? Not really a great deal. And who knows, there might be some good changes too! I bet it won’t all be rivers of blood and banana famine.

Any of you pessimistic worry warts think about that?

Andy, consider this for a moment, if you will.....

At the last General Election you no doubt voted Labour in the hope that Ed Miliband would become the Prime Minister of a government of your choice. And you no doubt voted for a constituency Member of Parliament who would reflect your opinions, as a Labour supporter, in this country's legislature with a programme that represented and carried out your Socialist values.

That is called democracy. You, I have no doubt, value that highly. It is your inalientable right.

I similarly value that inalientable right highly...and which is why, on that occasion, I voted Tory.

Did you, Andy, vote to be governed ultimately by an unelected , self-perpetuating and unaccountable bureaucracy?

Were you granted the opportunity of accepting, or not accepting, your Head of State?

Were you granted the opportunity of voting for your de facto Prime Minister?

Were you granted the opportunity of voting for your de facto Foreign Secretary?

Were you granted the opportunity of voting for your de facto Chancellor of the Exchequer?

Were you granted the opportunity of voting for your de facto Justice Minister?

Did you want the British High and Supreme Courts to be the ultimate abiters of the laws that you have to obey?

In voting to remain in the EU you willingly conceded all these hard-won rights and freedoms.

In voting to leave the EU I re-asserted my rights as a free man.

And you both question and condemn my motives and those who feel the same as I do?

Great post Fred. I’m looking forward to Andy having a serious discussion with you about all of your points.

We all deserved to be told the ABSOLUTE truth about the full implications of Brexit.
With regards to :
Jobs
Immigration.
Border  controls
Northern Ireland
Import duties.
Exchange control.
Queues on motorways
Visas
Timescales of implementation.
The £350 million to the NHS.

We were spun a pack of lies and untruths, or know facts were simply withheld when it was known to be bad news..

Given what we know now, now that many more facts about Brexit and the cost involved are more widely known, does ANYONE have any doubt of the result of a second referendum?

We were sold a pup. and a lot of the information to sell Brexit was either wrong , or was lied about.

Andy, don’t you think the same hoo-ha would have happened if the vote went the other way? Same from the media/politicians/burger burger etc etc

Are you saying we shouldn’t trust any information given to us by politicians?

Is this the first time you’ve felt duped by politics?

Are you going to answer Fred’s valid points?

Fred has posed loaded questions that warrant agreement.
But to further the debate of whether we should Brexit or not, both you and Fred ( and the other Brexiteers) need to address the salient points I have made, none of which are spurious.

You didn’t address his points and you didn’t address mine. You do that. You post an opinion then disregard answering anyone else.

I voted out because I felt like we needed change. It seems as good a reason as any.
I also know quite a few Bulgarians who also voted out, know why? Because they said that the EU had ruined their country.

But you don’t want a discussion. You just want to vent so I’ll leave you to it.

Angry Andy wrote:We all deserved to be told the ABSOLUTE truth about the full implications of Brexit.
With regards to :
Jobs
Immigration.
Border  controls
Northern Ireland
Import duties.
Exchange control.
Queues on motorways
Visas
Timescales of implementation.
The £350 million to the NHS.

We were spun a pack of lies and untruths, or know facts were simply withheld when it was known to be bad news..

Given what we know now, now that many more facts about Brexit and the cost involved are more widely known, does ANYONE have any doubt of the result of a second referendum?

We were sold a pup. and a lot of the information to sell Brexit was either wrong , or was lied about.

We were lied to by both sides; that much is patently obvious. This was a largely political issue and I, for one, have always subscribed to the view that you can always tell when a politician is lying: His mouth is open.

And I do not differentiate between Left and Right in that contention.

I have to admit that I was utterly naive in assuming that the EU Commission would have accepted the democratic vote of UK citizens and would have negotiated accordingly. As it has turned out to be, the ruling bureaucrats - who run the EU in the interests predominently of a self-perpetuating, dictatorial and unelected bureaucracy - have negotiated throughout on the basis of punitive reprisals pour encourager les autres in the knowledge that the ordinary citizens of several other member states are just as disenchanted with the EU and its governance as are we in this country.

Every aspect that you cited could have been negotiated in a civilised manner and agreed fully in the interests of all parties, but so worried are the unelected EU Commissioners that their grand plan for a United States of Europe might be thwarted by independent nations that Michele Barnier's brief was to punish the UK and not to negotiate in a meaningful manner.

You were obviously happy with that.

I was not.

As for a second referendum...as both the Netherlands and the Republic of Ireland have already discovered, a referendum that produces results that are not strictly in accordance with the aims and objectives of the unelected EU Commission will be forcibly repeated...if necessary again and again - until the "right" answer is given.

Fred, that is EXACTLY what I think.

And all this wailing about change - change that no one really knows anything about apart from what they’re being told (ie lies?) - is just fear driven by the people that are pressured by the people who hold the power.

And we all know that the people who hold the power are only interested in keeping the power.

People need to understand too, that if a vote isn’t accepted and can be cast aside, voters will no longer vote.
Then, where will we be?

Anyway, you said it better.

We are always being sold a pup by some politician or the other.
Do you seriously think every Brexiteer listened slavishly to the rubbish spouted by either side, most people who:

a. never wanted to join at all

b. only wanted a trading community


c. had over the years looked at the EU and its workings and found it wanting for some time

The Brexit debate has never been a left/right debate. May has always been pro remain. Boris keeps changing his mind and Corbyn has never liked the EU.

It was impossible to cast a knowledgeable vote because so little was known about the actual impact of Brexit 2 years ago, and even today that remains true, and , as you correctly say, we were lied to by both sides.

In my eye, that makes the result corrupted and invalid, and there should be a second referendum, with any impact factors published for all to digest. BEFORE the second vote.

And I am not a great admirer of the EU , but I like the freedom of movement for EU citizens, with the caveat that working and residency is separated from visiting. Skilled jobs should be listed, with a points based system.. As for trade, I again like the. unified regulations and compliance with a European standard for quality.  That doesn't mean we are giving up our powers, but we can have a huge say in the standard of health, hygiene and quality of the products we import and export.

Angry Andy wrote:Fred has posed loaded questions that  warrant agreement.
But to further the debate of whether we should Brexit or not, both you and Fred ( and the other Brexiteers) need to address the salient points I have made, none of which are spurious.

My questions were not "loaded"...they were the very questions that you, and other remainers, should not only be prepared to answer now but should have considered previously . They were of the utmost importance.

You did not do so; indeed many of you were so arrogant - and lazy - that you thought that it was unnecessary and pointless to exercise your democratic right to vote. After all, you thought, the result would be a foregone conclusion.

Well, you've paid the price. I voted in accordance with my conscience, beliefs and considerable knowledge and professional experience. If you and those like you couldn't take the trouble, then don't whinge at me.

Angry Andy wrote:The Brexit debate has never been a left/right debate. May has always been pro remain. Boris keeps changing his mind and Corbyn has never liked the EU.

It was impossible to cast a knowledgeable vote because so little was known about the actual impact of Brexit 2 years ago, and even today that remains true, and , as you correctly say, we were lied to by both sides.

In my eye, that makes the result corrupted and invalid, and there should be a second referendum, with any impact factors published for all to digest. BEFORE the second vote.

And I am not a great admirer of the EU , but I like the freedom of movement for EU citizens, with the caveat that working and residency is separated from visiting. Skilled jobs should be listed, with a points based system.. As for trade, I again like the. unified regulations and compliance with a European standard for quality.  That doesn't mean we are giving up our powers, but we can have a huge say in the standard of health, hygiene and quality of the products we import and export.

That is exactly what the unelected EU Commissioners told the citizens of The Netherlands and the Republic of Ireland after they voted democratically to defy Commission diktats.

And it was made perfectly clear to them that if they repeated their electoral decision they would be made to vote again - and again - and again, if necessary - until they bowed to the Commissioners' will.

That, Andy, is fucking dictatorship and is indistinguishable from the machinations of the Third Reich.

Is that what you really want?

It seems to me that the Brexiteers cannot face the truth, and delight in the knowledge that they won a vote based on lies, untruths and misinformation.

Bullshit !!!!!!!!!

nicko wrote:Bullshit !!!!!!!!!

Yet another valued contribution from the village idiot.
With twats like Nicko spoiling debates, no wonder posters don't engage, and far worse, no longer post here.

Angry Andy wrote:It seems to me that the Brexiteers cannot face the truth, and delight in the knowledge that they won a vote based on lies, untruths and misinformation.

And just what did you base your vote on, Andy...the "lies, untruths and misinformation" spun by the Remain faction? Because yes, they were at it too.

Did you ever stop to think why people like Mandelson, Clegg, Kinnock et al were so, so pro EU and desperately anxious that their lucrative pensions and other pecuniary interests and  "considerations" would not be jeopardised?

At least I cast my vote having actually attended several sessions of that Micky Mouse cartel, the so-called European Parliament (a conglomeration of "yes men" kept on-message by a system of virtual sinecures of undemanding responsibilities,  handsome financial rewards and seemingly limitless and unaccountable expenses); trying to deal at professional level with an autocratic and clock-watching civil service and suffering the utter contempt of "we who must be obeyed" Commissioners and their cohorts of over-paid aides.

So how about you, Andy? Or are you just another gullible, unquestioning useful idiot?

It's a simple choice for me... Britain totally run by British parliament and directly elected by British people... or... Britain following the orders of a foreign dictatatorship...!?


Why would any British democrat support the latter...!!!???

Tommy Monk wrote:It's a simple choice for me... Britain totally run by British parliament and directly elected by British people... or... Britain following the orders of a foreign dictatatorship...!?


Why would any British democrat support the latter...!!!???

And that's what it really comes down to.

My own interest in this issue is centred on the fact that there is a European Court of Justice (in the past some of the appointed judges of which have not even been legally qualified, by the way!) which has the power not only to overturn the laws enacted by the British Parliament but also the decisions of the United Kingdom Supreme Court...the very highest level of our own judicial system and the ultimate arbiter of our rights as citizens of a free and democratic country.

How, in the name of God, can this be right? Or, indeed, acceptable to anyone who believes in the democratic process?

I can't understand it either !

EU = theft of democracy