Theresa May's Salzburg humiliation confirms that a full blown political crisis is coming

First topic message reminder :

When the prime minister is sweating profusely, tripping over her words and chewing on her own gums as if lost on the way back from the dance tent at Glastonbury at 4am, well, it’s not unfair to come to that conclusion

Theresa May’s problem is that she is fundamentally a decent, functional human being. She is not struck down with the Messiah complex. She does not lie easily or well.

So when she stands on stage at a press conference, her teeth gnashing, her eyes wide and wild, as if everything has gone utterly terribly wrong and she hasn’t got the first clue what she is going to do about it, then you can be absolutely sure it’s because everything has indeed gone utterly terribly wrong, and she hasn’t got the first clue what she is going to do about it.

She had been humiliated, and then she was forced to humiliate herself. She had thought this informal summit of EU leaders in Salzburg would be the final breakthrough on an exit deal from the European Union.

But there has been no breakthrough. There is still a chasm of empty space between her red lines and the European Union’s. The question of the Irish border appears unresolvable.

Either Northern Ireland stays in the single market and the customs union, or the whole of the UK does, or there is no deal. None of these options are satisfactory for the UK.

That white paper is the one that set out how a frictionless border could be maintained on the island of Ireland, without Northern Ireland remaining in the customs union. She had gone to Salzburg on this advice, where she found out, in the full glare of the public spotlight, that the game remains exactly the same.

As the phrase goes, nothing has changed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-chequers-humiliation-row-political-crisis-a8547551.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1537473128

Well i completely disagree on your view to answer a simple question. Which I have every right to do Eddie

So I will leave it be and so should Ben also piping in making immature wanker signs to me.

So I wish you both a good evening

Didge wrote:
So I will leave it be and so should Ben also piping in making immature wanker signs to me.

i'd missed that earlier



i fucking love this place

nite didge

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:
So I will leave it be and so should Ben also piping in making immature wanker signs to me.

i'd missed that earlier



i fucking love this place

nite didge

ha ha ha

So do I Gelico

Night Gelico

Didge me ole mucker, we have had this conversation in the pst,or, at least if not us two you must have seen the point about it I made to the person concerned.  PLEASE dont "edit" someones post even for humour, WITHOUT making the edit obvious ...either by using colourred text or strike through or  note to the effect that this is what you are doing.  To do otherwise is bad form, and really quite rude and at its worse (not saying this was your intent) iyt can lead to wrong or poor views being attributed to someone unfairly.    Note I have no problem with a bitv of humerous editing when done in the way I suggest.....

EXAMPLE....


One poster may write " and I screwed the board to the floor"


You may then be tempted if the situation of the thread deserves it to edit that thus

"And I screwed the board  wife to the floor" 
There   I fixed that for you. 

Thus making it clear that indeed you have altered the post, And everyone can see that this is so.

Just helps to keep things nice....

Lord Foul wrote:Didge me ole mucker, we have had this conversation in the pst,or, at least if not us two you must have seen the point about it I made to the person concerned.  PLEASE dont "edit" someones post even for humour, WITHOUT making the edit obvious ...either by using colourred text or strike through or  note to the effect that this is what you are doing.  To do otherwise is bad form, and really quite rude and at its worse (not saying this was your intent) iyt can lead to wrong or poor views being attributed to someone unfairly.    Note I have no problem with a bitv of humerous editing when done in the way I suggest.....

This was dealt with last night, so why are you still craping on about it?

It was done in light humour and I never changed the contect of her post, I simple deleted her words

Sorry but I find some of these rules petty, being as the original post can never be edited.

Its actually within my post to where I have done this

Anyway I really could not give a crap about something so pendantic

I mean seriously what is the harm in what i did?

He’s “carping on about it” because it’s his opinion and he has a right to express it.

eddie wrote:He’s “carping on about it” because it’s his opinion and he has a right to express it.

Where did I ever claim he cannot express his opinion?

Never did, my view, was why again keep dragging this out?

Like I said the whole thing is petty

Oh an any chance you are going to answer the question or continue to use me as an excuse to not do so?

Tommy Monk wrote:

eddie wrote:I have been asked if I’d rather one bunch of idiots rule me over another bunch of idiots.
I don’t want any idiots to rule me.  I couldn’t be clearer.

Ok...


Let's rephrase the question...


Do you think that it should be up to our nationally democratically elected MPs/Govt/parliament to make/change/control our law/rules/regulations here in UK...?


Or do you think all of this should be decided by a group of foreigners in a building somewhere in a totally different country, and then dictated to this country for our national govt/parliament to obey...?

This question is for everyone...


Any answers...?


(And hello to you too, Gelico!)

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

eddie wrote:I have been asked if I’d rather one bunch of idiots rule me over another bunch of idiots.
I don’t want any idiots to rule me.  I couldn’t be clearer.

Ok...


Let's rephrase the question...


Do you think that it should be up to our nationally democratically elected MPs/Govt/parliament to make/change/control our law/rules/regulations here in UK...?


Or do you think all of this should be decided by a group of foreigners in a building somewhere in a totally different country, and then dictated to this country for our national govt/parliament to obey...?

This question is for everyone...


Any answers...?


(And hello to you too, Gelico!)

I think it should be up to us to rule ourselves. It wasn’t working before so change it up, shake it about, see if it works.

Thank you for just getting to the point btw. I like direct questions.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Ok...


Let's rephrase the question...


Do you think that it should be up to our nationally democratically elected MPs/Govt/parliament to make/change/control our law/rules/regulations here in UK...?


Or do you think all of this should be decided by a group of foreigners in a building somewhere in a totally different country, and then dictated to this country for our national govt/parliament to obey...?

This question is for everyone...


Any answers...?


(And hello to you too, Gelico!)

I think we should rule ourselves, which is one of the reasons I voted out.

There wont be another referendum, despite all the squawking,but if there was I I believe the majority of people who voted out would do so again.
In fact, given the way the EU have shown their true colours in the way they have threatened and tried to browbeat UK since our decision to leave, I bet some people who voted to stay would now do an about turn and would now vote out.

The transition has been made a lot more difficult than it should have been, but once we are out and settled, I bet other countries tied into the EU will follow our lead.

eddie wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



This question is for everyone...


Any answers...?


(And hello to you too, Gelico!)

I think it should be up to us to rule ourselves.  It wasn’t working before so change it up, shake it about, see if it works.

Thank you for just getting to the point btw. I like direct questions.

So British idiots then

Which you could have answered ages ago, instead of all this crap about direct questions, you just answered mine as well

No, I do not want to be ruled by idiots.

You seem to be missing the point but that doesn’t surprise me.

I voted to leave for all the reasons  set out by Tommy...based on actual experience  and knowledge gained through working closely alongside EU institutions for more than two decades during which I was astounded by the sheer contempt for the democratic process evident among the unelected Commission's top brass and senior civil servants.

It goes against the grain when I am both lectured and hectored by Remainers who insist that I  must be either xenopobic, Jingoistic or gullible to "lies" when they themselves have never attended sittings of the EU Parliament (and probably have no clue who their own MEP is!) and have never encountered at first hand the frequently bullying intransigence of "we-know-best" departmental officials.

And as for the "Buggins turn" system of appointing to high office political nonentities who feel that it is their unquestionable right to interfere in the minutiae of the lives of the ordinary people who have to pay for it all....

We used to have self rule... then it was given away bit by bit to the EU to tell us what to do... we need to leave the EU to restore our democracy and our self rule.


Simple as that!

Green from me Tommy, many men died to keep this country free, and now the bastards want to give it ALL away !

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I voted to leave for all the reasons  set out by Tommy...based on actual experience  and knowledge gained through working closely alongside EU institutions for more than two decades during which I was astounded by the sheer contempt for the democratic process evident among the unelected Commission's top brass and senior civil servants.

It goes against the grain when I am both lectured and hectored by Remainers who insist that I  must be either xenopobic, Jingoistic or gullible to "lies" when they themselves have never attended sittings of the EU Parliament (and probably have no clue who their own MEP is!) and have never encountered at first hand the frequently bullying intransigence of "we-know-best" departmental officials.

And as for the "Buggins turn" system of appointing to high office political nonentities who feel that it is their unquestionable right to interfere in the minutiae of the lives of the ordinary people who have to pay for it all....

Hi Fred...pleasure to see you. Don't you get that same attitude with intra-UK officialdom?

I think your argument is better off with the undemocratic aspects of the EU.  It's more of a political argument than a moral argument (democracy being an elective).  But you're on safer grounds saying simply, it's my choice.

How on earth did something intended to be only an economic cooperative, turn into such an all-inclusive mechanism?  Do you think this is a left-over from Comintern thinking?  Only that element would have such "sheer contempt for the democratic process".  I mean, in our economic alliances (primarily NAFTA), political values such as equality and commonality of laws don't even enter into it.  It's an economic cooperative.

Original Quill wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I voted to leave for all the reasons  set out by Tommy...based on actual experience  and knowledge gained through working closely alongside EU institutions for more than two decades during which I was astounded by the sheer contempt for the democratic process evident among the unelected Commission's top brass and senior civil servants.

It goes against the grain when I am both lectured and hectored by Remainers who insist that I  must be either xenopobic, Jingoistic or gullible to "lies" when they themselves have never attended sittings of the EU Parliament (and probably have no clue who their own MEP is!) and have never encountered at first hand the frequently bullying intransigence of "we-know-best" departmental officials.

And as for the "Buggins turn" system of appointing to high office political nonentities who feel that it is their unquestionable right to interfere in the minutiae of the lives of the ordinary people who have to pay for it all....

Hi Fred...pleasure to see you.  Don't you get that same attitude with intra-UK officialdom?

I think your argument is better off with the undemocratic aspects of the EU.  It's more of a political argument than a moral argument (democracy being an elective).  But you're on safer grounds saying simply, it's my choice.

How on earth did something intended to be only an economic cooperative, turn into such an all-inclusive mechanism?  Do you think this is a left-over from Comintern thinking?  Only that element would have such "sheer contempt for the democratic process".  I mean, in our economic alliances (primarily NAFTA), political values such as equality and commonality of laws don't even enter into it.  It's an economic cooperative.

Good question...

We have been told it is only about trade at every turn... every new treaty was just 'ammending/streamlining etc, and didn't really mean anything...

Except that was all lies... every treaty was giving more and more of our sovereignty and democracy away to being controlled by the EU dictatorship!

It's all been a big lie and a big con!!!

+1

Original Quill wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I voted to leave for all the reasons  set out by Tommy...based on actual experience  and knowledge gained through working closely alongside EU institutions for more than two decades during which I was astounded by the sheer contempt for the democratic process evident among the unelected Commission's top brass and senior civil servants.

It goes against the grain when I am both lectured and hectored by Remainers who insist that I  must be either xenopobic, Jingoistic or gullible to "lies" when they themselves have never attended sittings of the EU Parliament (and probably have no clue who their own MEP is!) and have never encountered at first hand the frequently bullying intransigence of "we-know-best" departmental officials.

And as for the "Buggins turn" system of appointing to high office political nonentities who feel that it is their unquestionable right to interfere in the minutiae of the lives of the ordinary people who have to pay for it all....

Hi Fred...pleasure to see you.  Don't you get that same attitude with intra-UK officialdom?

I think your argument is better off with the undemocratic aspects of the EU.  It's more of a political argument than a moral argument (democracy being an elective).  But you're on safer grounds saying simply, it's my choice.

How on earth did something intended to be only an economic cooperative, turn into such an all-inclusive mechanism?  Do you think this is a left-over from Comintern thinking?  Only that element would have such "sheer contempt for the democratic process".  I mean, in our economic alliances (primarily NAFTA), political values such as equality and commonality of laws don't even enter into it.  It's an economic cooperative.

Well it does, of course, come down to being a case of "it's my choice..." because that's what referenda, a very rare occurence in the UK, are all about.

The fact is that, increasingly, there are fewer of us around who not only remember but also took part in the 1975 national referendum on membership which followed on from the gracious (my italics) decision by French President Charles de Gaulle to end his obsessive opposition to the UK being admitted to what was, in effect, a Northern European coal, iron and steel trading federation set up with the theoretical intention of binding together France and Germany economically and thus preventing yet another Euorpean war.

De Gaull's quite overt anti-Brit sentiment was, ironically, in spite of the fact that British, American and Commonwealth troops fought and died in saving the autocratic General's fat arse, and that of his countrymen, from the Nazis who were occupying their country.

Some gratitude, huh?

Here in the UK, then under the government of the weak and ineffectual Ted Heath Tory administration, we were assured that we were being asked solely to join what was purely a trading bloc.

At no time was there any indication that the ultimate goal was to be the creation of a de-facto United States of Europe with an unelected President and executive administration that took upon itself control over member nations, their elected governments, laws, customs and traditions and which would give itself the absolute right to overrule national laws and national supreme courts whose role was to independently to administer and protect them.



You say "...it is an economic co-operative." Then why is the Brussles-based unelected EU Commission entitled to interfere in and even demand control over national legislation on practically every aspect of the lives of citizens of member nations?

Why is there any need for a "European Army"? (One of the stated aims of the Commission).

Why was there any need for the appointment of what is, in effect, a European Foreign Secretary? (The first appointee was some nonentity of a failed politician from the Labour Party whose only previous political experience was running a bloody local Hospital Trust!)

Why did the Commission's own Board of Auditors refuse for more than two decades to sign off the Commission's accounts, citing fraud and mismanagement?

Why did the Finance Commissioner (the Socialist windbag and utter failure Neil Kinnock), peremptorily dismiss a senior auditor for exposing that fraud and mismanagement?

And the latest manifestation of this so-called "economic co-operative"? The de-facto Justice Minister in the Commission is now seriously threatening legal "regulation" - for which read reprisals - against a free Press for daring even to criticise the activities and personalities of unelected EU Commissioners and virtually unaccountable civil servants!

Do you think I want to be part of this institutionally corrupt, self-serving, self-perpetuating circus? Not fucking likely!

Excellent post Moley!


The 1975 referendum assured us, categorically, that it would not ever be about or turn into any sort of political body that would ever have any control over any country, or any power of dictating to any national government etc...


But THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE EU HAS TURNED IN TO!!!


AN AUTHORITARIAN FEDERAL DICTATORSHIP THAT HAS MISSION CREEPED ITS WAY INTO NOW HAVING CONTROL OVER 75% OF ALL UK LAWS/RULES/REGULATIONS... AND WHICH SEEKS TO CARRY ON THE TAKE OVER TO GET 100% CONTROL!!!


AND WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PERMISSION GIVEN BY THE BRITISH PEOPLE, EVER, FOR ANY OF IT!!!




ARE THERE ANY REMAINERS OUT THERE WHO CAN EXPLAIN/JUSTIFY THIS THEFT OF UK DEMOCRACY/SOVEREIGNTY...!!!???


AND EXPLAIN/JUSTIFY, FIRSTLY, WHY YOU ARE NOT OUTRAGED BY IT...!!!???


AND SECONDLY, WHY YOU ARE IN FAVOUR OF IT...!!!???




Cos, to me it's a bit like this...


Say you owned a house... and you gave the keys to a letting agent to rent out for a while... then after a few years you decided you wanted a different letting agent to take over renting it out for you... but letting agent 1 told you that they had actually sold your house out to some overseas group... and you didn't own it any more... but they would let do you a favour and let you live there, as long as you paid them some money, and followed all their rules and regulations, including letting some of their friends come and stay freely as they pleased...!?


Would that be ok with you...!!!???

An excellent post from you Tommy !

Thanks Nicko!


Interesting no remainers have answered...


I wonder why...???

Still nothing from any pro EU idiots...

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Hi Fred...pleasure to see you.  Don't you get that same attitude with intra-UK officialdom?

I think your argument is better off with the undemocratic aspects of the EU.  It's more of a political argument than a moral argument (democracy being an elective).  But you're on safer grounds saying simply, it's my choice.

How on earth did something intended to be only an economic cooperative, turn into such an all-inclusive mechanism?  Do you think this is a left-over from Comintern thinking?  Only that element would have such "sheer contempt for the democratic process".  I mean, in our economic alliances (primarily NAFTA), political values such as equality and commonality of laws don't even enter into it.  It's an economic cooperative.

Well it does, of course, come down to being a case of "it's my choice..." because that's what referenda, a very rare occurence in the UK, are all about.

The fact is that, increasingly, there are fewer of us around who not only remember but also took part in the 1975 national referendum on membership which followed on from the gracious (my italics) decision by French President Charles de Gaulle to end his obsessive opposition to the UK being admitted to what was, in effect, a Northern European coal, iron and steel trading federation set up with the theoretical intention of binding together France and Germany economically and thus preventing yet another Euorpean war.

De Gaull's quite overt anti-Brit sentiment was, ironically, in spite of the fact that British, American and Commonwealth troops fought and died in saving the autocratic General's fat arse, and that of his countrymen, from the Nazis who were occupying their country.

Some gratitude, huh?

Here in the UK, then under the government of the weak and ineffectual Ted Heath Tory administration, we were assured that we were being asked solely to join what was purely a trading bloc.

At no time was there any indication that the ultimate goal was to be the creation of a de-facto United States of Europe with an unelected President and executive administration that took upon itself control over member nations, their elected governments, laws, customs and traditions and which would give itself the absolute right to overrule national laws and national supreme courts whose role was to independently to administer and protect them.



You say "...it is an economic co-operative." Then why is the Brussles-based unelected EU Commission entitled to interfere in and even demand control over national legislation on practically every aspect of the lives of citizens of member nations?

Why is there any need for a "European Army"? (One of the stated aims of the Commission).

Why was there any need for the appointment of what is, in effect, a European Foreign Secretary? (The first appointee was some nonentity of a failed politician from the Labour Party whose only previous political experience was running a bloody local Hospital Trust!)

Why did the Commission's own Board of Auditors refuse for more than two decades to sign off the Commission's accounts, citing fraud and mismanagement?

Why did the Finance Commissioner (the Socialist windbag and utter failure Neil Kinnock), peremptorily dismiss a senior auditor for exposing that fraud and mismanagement?

And the latest manifestation of this so-called "economic co-operative"? The de-facto Justice Minister in the Commission is now seriously threatening legal "regulation" - for which read reprisals - against a free Press for daring even to criticise the activities and personalities of unelected EU Commissioners and virtually unaccountable civil servants!

Do you think I want to be part of this institutionally corrupt, self-serving, self-perpetuating circus? Not fucking likely!

Hi Fred, thanks for the xlnt answer. I see your point, and I must say I agree with you in part. From what you say, y'all fell for the classic 'bait-and-switch'. Moreover—tut-tut—it appears you guys stuck your bare ass in, and then didn't look after it. It appears y'all let yourselves get bamboozled, if you don't mind a little criticism.

This is borne out in the discussions we have on-line. When I hear Brits defending the EU, I hear economic arguments. When I hear you, tommy, and the BREXIT sorts complaining, I hear political arguments. There's a time in dialogue, sometimes, when two sides talk past one another. This sounds like such a time.

Now, where are you as a country? If you are into the EU, you get your political ass caught in a huge sucker. But if you are out, you've got no dinner...which is to say, you've got few trading partners, or at least no privileged partners.

How do you dig your way out? You need to get into some stream of commerce where there are large enough markets to make it mutually beneficial, yet avoid getting sucked into the political morass. One thing is for certain, if BREXIT folks think the job is done, they got another think coming.

The economic argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

If we leave Europe the immigration laws will be relaxed and the UK will probably open it’s borders with less red tape and stupidarse rules and my husband will be able to come and live here.

Selfish, yes, but I’m glad I voted out.

eddie wrote:If we leave Europe the immigration laws will be relaxed and the UK will probably open it’s borders with less red tape and stupidarse rules and my husband will be able to come and live here.

Selfish, yes, but I’m glad I voted out.

Nothing wrong with that. Self-interest is supposed to drive politics in a democracy.

Tommy Monk wrote:The economic argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

On either side. Apparently, if you want to join, there are political strings attached. If you don't join, you've got no trading partners, and no markets.

I don't want to speak for you. The "economic argument" is dismal prospects. What positive steps would you take? Do you have a plan?

Plenty trade with EU without being run by the EU.


Plus... only a small number of UK companies actually do any trade with EU... are you really saying that we should allow the theft of our democracy so that a few big companies can have it easier to make more profit?

And don't forget Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, used to be prime minister of Luxembourg which is essentially a tax haven for big business!!!

Quill, being a Brit hater you'd love to see us in the shit wouldn't you ?

Still no answers from any pro EU idiots...

Tommy Monk wrote:Excellent post Moley!


The 1975 referendum assured us, categorically, that it would not ever be about or turn into any sort of political body that would ever have any control over any country, or any power of dictating to any national government etc...


But THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE EU HAS TURNED IN TO!!!


AN AUTHORITARIAN FEDERAL DICTATORSHIP THAT HAS MISSION CREEPED ITS WAY INTO NOW HAVING CONTROL OVER 75% OF ALL UK LAWS/RULES/REGULATIONS... AND WHICH SEEKS TO CARRY ON THE TAKE OVER TO GET 100% CONTROL!!!


AND WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PERMISSION GIVEN BY THE BRITISH PEOPLE, EVER, FOR ANY OF IT!!!




ARE THERE ANY REMAINERS OUT THERE WHO CAN EXPLAIN/JUSTIFY THIS THEFT OF UK DEMOCRACY/SOVEREIGNTY...!!!???


AND EXPLAIN/JUSTIFY, FIRSTLY, WHY YOU ARE NOT OUTRAGED BY IT...!!!???


AND SECONDLY, WHY YOU ARE IN FAVOUR OF IT...!!!???




Cos, to me it's a bit like this...


Say you owned a house... and you gave the keys to a letting agent to rent out for a while... then after a few years you decided you wanted a different letting agent to take over renting it out for you... but letting agent 1 told you that they had actually sold your house out to some overseas group... and you didn't own it any more... but they would let do you a favour and let you live there, as long as you paid them some money, and followed all their rules and regulations, including letting some of their friends come and stay freely as they pleased...!?


Would that be ok with you...!!!???

Still no answer from any remainers...

Still no remainders got anything to say about your voting for betrayal of this country and our democracy...!?

Where have all the remainders gone?

Tommy Monk wrote:Where have all the remainders gone?

I would imagine that they are still desperately trying to determine how (a) to re-defne the words "democratic vote" and (b) to re-write history.

They are sitting watching the Brexit fiasco unravel.

And then they can justifiably say it's not their fault.

The fiasco is how the EU has turned into a federal dictatorship controlling 75% of our laws/rules/regulations, and how some idiot remainers here are the turkeys voting for christmas in supporting the continued theft of our democracy!!!


And these same idiots are trying to turn us leaving into a fiasco by frustrating the process at every turn!!!

Hope you have your visa waiver application to visit France, Spain, Eire etc. Only £15 per trip. And your driving licence wont be valid. Nor will your EHIC reciprocal health card. And good luck queuing on the M20 awaiting a ferry or train crossing.
And there will be far fewer nurses in our hospitals. And fewer baristas serving coffees. And fewer fruit pickers.
Inflation will rise.
And your GPS won't work over there either. And your mobile phone and data will cost the earth.
It isn't my fault.

I would rather have my democracy intact!!!

Andy, what an absolute list of bollocks.

You are joking of course?

Strange how we had medical staff, fruit pickers and all before the EU, planes flew, cargo came to and fro, ferries crossed, people went on holiday to the Continent, shock horror they even drove their own cars onto a ferry and off the other side and drove around Spain, France, Germany etc. how did they manage that I wonder.

You will find out the hard way.

That's not much of an answer from someone who is so emphatic that the sky will fall on Britain, leaving out Southern Ireland of course, after Brexit and no one will be able to get in or out of Britain or send or receive any goods. Planes will cease taking off/landing ferries will stop running and all that sounds a bit like the EU cutting off its nose to spite its face, if anything like that happens it'll be for sheer spite.

Andy wants the UK to be ruled by the EU instead of us having a proper democracy!

Vintage wrote:That's not much of an answer from someone who is so emphatic that the sky will fall on Britain, leaving out Southern Ireland of course, after Brexit and no one will be able to get in or out of Britain or send or receive any goods. Planes will cease taking off/landing ferries will stop running and all that sounds a bit like the EU cutting off its nose to spite its face, if anything like that happens it'll be for sheer spite.

I wonder what will be the reaction of the stakeholders, workers and directors of Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Renault, Citroen and Peugeot when that towering pillar of international statesmanship who once reached the dizzying heights of Prime Minister of a Mickey Mouse Ruritanian "Grand Duchy" with a national economy half the size of that of Birmingham City Council (can't recall his name) instructs them to treat their millions of customers present and future in the UK as undeserving pariahs to be shunned by their salesmen?