Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia

by Ben Reilly Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:33 am

Michael Cohen is willing to speak with Special Counsel Robert Mueller about a “conspiracy to collude” with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign, his lawyer said on Tuesday night.

Cohen — who pleaded guilty earlier on Tuesday to helping Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon pay hush money to two women — wants to tell Mueller that Trump knew of an infamous 2016 meeting at Trump Tower and the Russian hacking of Democratic institutions before they took place, Lanny Davis told MSNBC.

“Mr. Cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows,” Davis told the network.

“Not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system in the 2016 election, which the Trump Tower meeting was all about, but also knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not Mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on.”

https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/cohen-willing-to-tell-mueller-about-conspiracy-to-collude-lawyer

Get ready for impeachment proceedings!

by 'Wolfie Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:51 am

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 3724572420

It will certainly be interesting to see just how Donnie Dumpster's half dozen or so supporters and defenders on here will try and spin these latest developments...

Witch hunt ? Beat up ? Fake news ? tongue

by nicko Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:12 am

Name these so called supporters Wolfie, if you dare ?
Or are you just bullshitting again ?

by Ben Reilly Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:32 am

One Twitter commenter wrote that as she watched Cohen's lawyer say these things on TV last night with her husband, she felt reassured about the state of America for the first time since Election Day in 2016. Kinda wish I'd been watching it live, too. Yesterday was an historic day for America.

by 'Wolfie Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:34 am

nicko wrote:
Name these so called supporters Wolfie, if you dare ?
Or are you just bullshitting again ?

Most of them are 'M.I.A.', unfortunately...

Independent Thoughts
Maddog
Smelly'
Deano
VoD
Gelico..

There's sure to be others out there, just waiting to come out of the woodwork.

by Original Quill Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:28 pm

nicko wrote:Name these so called supporters Wolfie, if you dare ?
Or are you just bullshitting again ?

Seems you have been quite vocal in support of Trump, nicko. Of course, you can plead ignorance, sitting on your foreign perch. But what card carrying Trump supporter isn't ignorant? Seems to be a qualification for membership in the club.

What I find interesting is the allocution that Cohen made to the Court:

Los Angeles Times wrote:During a hearing before U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III in Manhattan, Cohen said he had facilitated $280,000 in hush money payments to porn actress Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal “in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office.”

Hmmm...candidate for federal office. Who could that be? Hillary? No. Only one other choice, innit?

That means Comrade Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator, the same as Richard Nixon. One of Cohen's lawyers, Lanny Davis, tweeted afterward that his client had “testified under oath that Donald Trump directed [Cohen] to commit a crime by making payments to two women for the principal purpose of influencing an election.”

Trump's senile attorney, Rudi Giuliani, said: “There is no allegation of any wrongdoing against the President in the government’s charges against Mr. Cohen.” So weak, you'd have to be an idiot not to figure it out. “There’s no question about it,” Former Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman said on MSNBC, “This makes the president of the United States an unindicted co-conspirator.”

by nicko Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:46 pm

"Quite supported" I once said he's doing what he promised, lowering tax rates and bringing down unemployment, hardly supporting is it ?

by Original Quill Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:37 pm

nicko wrote:"Quite supported" I once said he's doing what he promised, lowering tax rates and bringing down unemployment, hardly supporting is it ?

Yet he raised taxes (he lowered only corporate taxes), and slowed down the unemployment decline that had been continual throughout the Obama years (from 2011). More importantly, he has done nothing about wages, as the gain in employment has been in minimum wage jobs. He has increased taxes at the border, crippling the US ability to compete in the global arena. Unemployment is the result of advances in technology, yet he continues to try to increase coal production. Very stupid.

All Trump has done is use his lies to spin the Obama successes into his own. Like his victory on Korea, it's a will-o-wisp. Rolling Eyes

by Andy Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:08 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
nicko wrote:
Name these so called supporters Wolfie, if you dare ?
Or are you just bullshitting again ?

Most of them are 'M.I.A.', unfortunately...

Independent Thoughts
Maddog
Smelly'
Deano
VoD
Gelico..

There's sure to be others out there, just waiting to come out of the woodwork.

Allakkaka and Major, both fervent Trmpettes, both banned from most forums for far right extremism and racism. Just like Trump

by Original Quill Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:17 pm

Angry Andy wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Most of them are 'M.I.A.', unfortunately...

Independent Thoughts
Maddog
Smelly'
Deano
VoD
Gelico..

There's sure to be others out there, just waiting to come out of the woodwork.

Allakkaka and Major, both fervent Trmpettes, both banned from most forums for far right extremism and racism. Just like Trump

Whenever bad news befalls the Right--as it did twice yesterday, with the Manafort (Trump campaign manager) conviction and Cohen (Trump lawyer) guilty plea--there seems to be a HUSH that descends over Newsfix. Rightys don't want to come out and play.

Sad. All those Trump supporters, sooo silent. Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 2794048296

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 2794048296

by Guest Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:42 pm

I doubt anything will happen for now and is why nobody is comenting

The Senate is a majority Republican and it requires a two third majority to impeach . Though this could change come elections in November

I dont doubt he colluded with the Russians

by eddie Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:28 pm

I bet Michael Cohen winds up dead someday.

by Andy Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:05 pm

My guess is that Mueller is playing a waiting game until after the mid terms , after which the Dems should have a strong foothold in the Senate and be able to muster the 2/3 majority to impeach. A sane President would stand down , blaming ill health ( dementia) which could easily be justified, as part of a deal to keep some of the worst crimes off record.
It won't happen because he IS insane, and actually shows many of the symptoms of dementia.

by Andy Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:11 pm

Trump thinks if he says nothing it will all blow over.
He said it's just a Stormee in a D cup.

by Original Quill Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:21 am

eddie wrote:I bet Michael Cohen winds up dead someday.

My money is on Manafort...he refused a cooperation agreement with the Mueller investigation, in favor of going to trial. He got convicted, and will spend the rest of his life in prison. Now why would someone do something so stupid?

Perhaps because Putin's special forces are waiting for him to walk out, where they can get at him?? #Novichok--mother (Russia's) little helper...

by Ben Reilly Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:54 am

eddie wrote:I bet Michael Cohen winds up dead someday.

Don't think that'd be a bit obvious?

by eddie Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:44 pm

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:I bet Michael Cohen winds up dead someday.

Don't think that'd be a bit obvious?

Dunno. Ask Dr David Kelly’s family.

by The Devil, You Know Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:01 am

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:
Michael Cohen is willing to speak with Special Counsel Robert Mueller about a “conspiracy to collude” with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign, his lawyer said on Tuesday night.

Cohen — who pleaded guilty earlier on Tuesday to helping Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon pay hush money to two women — wants to tell Mueller that Trump knew of an infamous 2016 meeting at Trump Tower and the Russian hacking of Democratic institutions before they took place, Lanny Davis told MSNBC.

“Mr. Cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows,” Davis told the network.

“Not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system in the 2016 election, which the Trump Tower meeting was all about, but also knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not Mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on.”

https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/cohen-willing-to-tell-mueller-about-conspiracy-to-collude-lawyer

Get ready for impeachment proceedings!

of course he has, he has been offered a deal to do so. It doesn't necessarily make it true though.

by The Devil, You Know Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:02 am

Angry Andy wrote:My guess is that Mueller is playing a waiting game until after the mid terms , after which the Dems should have a strong foothold in the Senate and be able to muster the 2/3 majority to impeach. A sane President would stand down , blaming ill health ( dementia) which could easily be justified, as part of a deal to keep some of the worst crimes off record.
It won't happen because he IS insane, and actually shows many of the symptoms of dementia.

what exactly are they going to impeach him for.
Creating a mental disorder. TDS (trump derangement syndrome) is not an impeachable offence as yet.

by 'Wolfie Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:21 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:My guess is that Mueller is playing a waiting game until after the mid terms , after which the Dems should have a strong foothold in the Senate and be able to muster the 2/3 majority to impeach. A sane President would stand down , blaming ill health ( dementia) which could easily be justified, as part of a deal to keep some of the worst crimes off record.
It won't happen because he IS insane, and actually shows many of the symptoms of dementia.

what exactly are they going to impeach him for.
Creating a mental disorder. TDS (trump derangement syndrome) is not an impeachable offence as yet.

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 3489511464

Deano's my hero...

Last year, he stated that Britain has enough natural resources to last "hundreds of years" -- while he reckons that Australia will run out of coal and iron ore within twenty years..

Noone knows international affairs better than DYKface Deano !

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 919144451

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 919144451

by Andy Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:26 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
what exactly are they going to impeach him for.
Creating a mental disorder. TDS (trump derangement syndrome) is not an impeachable offence as yet.

Deano's my hero...

Last year, he stated that Britain has enough natural resources to last "hundreds of years" -- while he reckons that Australia will run out of coal and iron ore within twenty years..

Noone knows international affairs better than DYKface Deano !

Don't think there are too many who believe a word Dyk says.
Who would trust the owner of an illegally run, Muslim hating site, where the owner posts sick homophobic death wishes to gays. ,

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:30 pm

Deano wrote:of course he has, he has been offered a deal to do so. It doesn't necessarily make it true though.

Ahah, but Cohen's allocution was under oath, a felony if he lies. How many of Trump's lies are under oath?

Trump won't go under oath. He calls it a 'perjury trap'. Pretty forthcoming of him, eh? I reckon Trump knows who the liar is.

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:04 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:My guess is that Mueller is playing a waiting game until after the mid terms , after which the Dems should have a strong foothold in the Senate and be able to muster the 2/3 majority to impeach. A sane President would stand down , blaming ill health ( dementia) which could easily be justified, as part of a deal to keep some of the worst crimes off record.
It won't happen because he IS insane, and actually shows many of the symptoms of dementia.
what exactly are they going to impeach him for.
Creating a mental disorder. TDS (trump derangement syndrome) is not an impeachable offence as yet.

1. Conspiracy to defraud the US election laws; Receiving donations from a foreign government; Conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act; conspiracy to spread disinformation; Wire fraud; Mail fraud.

2. Cover-up; obstruction of justice (6 counts); accessory after the fact.

3. Child abuse; Child endangerment.

4 Use of his trust to defraud the US; Use of his trust to defraud the State of New York;

4. Money laundering.

5. Lying to a federal agency (Federal Election filings).

6. Income Tax fraud, count one (Trust); count two (personal).

7. Bank fraud (four counts).

8. Conspiracy to violate the Logan Act.

9. Violation of the emoluments Clause.

10. All wrapped up in a Racketeering Enterprise (RICO) count.

Trump's father ran with the Gambino mob. Trump himself, because of his financial mismanagement, ran into trouble with stateside bankers, and consequently fell in with the emerging Russian mafia. Cohen's family runs a New York restaurant frequented by Russian mobsters, and thus Trump got introduced. You saw how beholding he acted toward Putin in Helsinki...classic mob behavior before the capo di tutti capi in the gang.

Trump's activities are just like any other criminal mobster. He is being systematically taken down in precisely the same way.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:09 pm

What if Michael Cohen is lying here simple to get a reduced sentence?

Going to be impartial here but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:28 pm

Didge wrote:What if Michael Cohen is lying here simple to get a reduced sentence?

Going to be impartial here but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

Cohen testified under oath, something that Trump refuses to do. That alone makes Cohen the more believable one. Trump calls it a 'perjury trap', hinting at what he intends to do if he is ever deposed.

The Feds avowed to the Court that they have substantial cooroborating evidence to back up the allocution of Cohen. Remember that Cohen was hit with a search warrant on his office, home and apartment. The Feds got all of his records pertaining to Trump. Cohen also tape recorded many conversations with Trump, and the Feds got those. After a magistrate determined most of these records were not covered by privilege, or were subject to the crime-fraud exception, the Feds received a treasure trove of documents going to the crimes of Donald Trump.

The only defense that Trump has is that the Justice Department has a rule that they won't try to unseat a sitting president. They could by law, but it's too sticky politically. So, we must impeach before going forward with prosecution of him

States, however, don't have to wait. Since Trump lives in New York, and many of his crimes also violate New York law, the AG of New York has already filed civil and criminal complaints against him, his trust (co-mingling funds), as well as his family members. California, Washington, and Hawai'i have followed suit.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:What if Michael Cohen is lying here simple to get a reduced sentence?

Going to be impartial here but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

Cohen testified under oath, something that Trump refuses to do. That alone makes Cohen the more believable one. The Feds avowed to the Court that they have substantial cooroborating evidence to back up the allocution of Cohen. Remember that Cohen was hit with a search warrant on his office, home and apartment. The Feds got all of his records pertaining to Trump. Cohen also tape recorded many conversations with Trump, and the Feds got those. After a magistrate determined most of these records were not covered by privilege, or were subject to the crime-fraud exception, the Feds received a treasure trove of documents going to the crimes of Donald Trump.

The only defense that Trump has is that the Justice Department has a rule that they won't try to unseat a sitting president. They could by law, but it's too sticky politically. So, we must impeach before going forward with prosecution of him

States, however, don't have to wait. Since Trump lives in New York, and many of his crimes also violate New York law, the AG of New York has already filed civil and criminal complaints against him, his trust (co-mingling funds), as well as his family members. California, Washington, and Hawai'i have followed suit.

The above does not answer my question

Going to be impartial here, but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Cohen testified under oath, something that Trump refuses to do. That alone makes Cohen the more believable one. The Feds avowed to the Court that they have substantial cooroborating evidence to back up the allocution of Cohen. Remember that Cohen was hit with a search warrant on his office, home and apartment. The Feds got all of his records pertaining to Trump. Cohen also tape recorded many conversations with Trump, and the Feds got those. After a magistrate determined most of these records were not covered by privilege, or were subject to the crime-fraud exception, the Feds received a treasure trove of documents going to the crimes of Donald Trump.

The only defense that Trump has is that the Justice Department has a rule that they won't try to unseat a sitting president. They could by law, but it's too sticky politically. So, we must impeach before going forward with prosecution of him

States, however, don't have to wait. Since Trump lives in New York, and many of his crimes also violate New York law, the AG of New York has already filed civil and criminal complaints against him, his trust (co-mingling funds), as well as his family members. California, Washington, and Hawai'i have followed suit.

Going to be impartial here but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

The details of a Justice Department Investigation are supposed to be classified, but I can tell you that a lawyer who works substantially for one client probably has all documents that have ever affected the client's life.

When the warrant was served on Cohen, his home, office and apartment, the FBI probably got every bank record, notes, tax return, letter, memo, email, electronic record, file or copy, tape recording, contract, insurance files, ledger, law case files (and inclusive evidence), and scrap of note on Trump's life, ever in his life since Cohen started representing him. These would include all records, whether or not Cohen worked on the matter...as you copy your lawyer on all matters.

Appreciate that you are being neutral. Nice to chat.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Going to be impartial here but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

The details of a Justice Department Investigation are supposed to be classified, but I can tell you that a lawyer who works substantially for one client probably has all documents that have ever affected the client's life.

When the warrant was served on Cohen, his home, office and apartment, the FBI probably got every bank record, notes, tax return, letter, memo, email, electronic record, file or copy, tape recording, contract, insurance files, ledger, law case files (and inclusive evidence), and scrap of note on Trump's life, ever in his life since Cohen started representing him. These would include all records, whether or not Cohen worked on the matter...as you copy your lawyer on all matters.

Appreciate that you are being neutral. Nice to chat.

The above does not answer my question and its unsubstantiated speculation on your part

Going to be impartial here, but what corroborating evidence is there for his claims against Trump?

Then answer why he did not plea bargain when arrested or at the start of the trial, if the evidence against Trump was damning?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:08 pm

It's not speculation on my part. I don't speak for the special prosecutor. You'll have to ask Mueller.

As for what he has, a Justice Department file is classified, and you won't learn until it comes out in a hearing or trial before a Court. By then, it will be too late, as too many have found out. Wink

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:It's not speculation on my part. I don't speak for the special prosecutor. You'll have to ask Mueller.

As for what he has, a Justice Department file is classified, and you won't learn until it comes out in a hearing or trial before a Court. By then, it will be too late, as too many have found out.

Hearsay

Well where is the corroborating evidence?

Then tell me why on earth that would be classified?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It's not speculation on my part. I don't speak for the special prosecutor. You'll have to ask Mueller.

As for what he has, a Justice Department file is classified, and you won't learn until it comes out in a hearing or trial before a Court. By then, it will be too late, as too many have found out.

Hearsay

Hearsay is an objection under the Federal Rules of Evidence. It is part of a Court proceeding. We are not in a court.

Didge wrote:Well where is the corroborating evidence?

In the hands of the special prosecutor.

Didge wrote:Then tell me why on earth that would be classified?

The same reason you don't want to try a case in the press. You don't want evidence to get out that might prejudice a jury pool, or prepare the defense to invent excuses.

The latter is what Congressman Nunes was trying to do with his subpoenas from a Congressional Committee. He was trying to give a defendant a heads up, by getting into the special prosecutor's files. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Hearsay

Hearsay is an objection under the Federal Rules of Evidence. It is part of a Court proceeding. We are not in a court.

Didge wrote:Well where is the corroborating evidence?

In the hands of the special prosecutor.

Didge wrote:Then tell me why on earth that would be classified?

The same reason you don't want to try a case in the press. You don't want evidence to get out that might prejudice a jury pool, or prepare the defense to invent excuses.

The latter is what Congressman Nunes was trying to do with his subpoenas from a Congressional Committee. He was trying to give a defendant a heads up, by getting into the special prosecutor's files.

So basically you have no idea and are going off media reports

Interesting, being as you said on the thread with the knife attack in France. Where media reports were corroborated by the French Police. That you now make a complete U-turn on your reasoning

Go figure

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:45 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Hearsay is an objection under the Federal Rules of Evidence. It is part of a Court proceeding. We are not in a court.

In the hands of the special prosecutor.

The same reason you don't want to try a case in the press. You don't want evidence to get out that might prejudice a jury pool, or prepare the defense to invent excuses.

The latter is what Congressman Nunes was trying to do with his subpoenas from a Congressional Committee. He was trying to give a defendant a heads up, by getting into the special prosecutor's files.

So basically you have no idea and are going off media reports

Interesting, being as you said on the thread with the knife attack in France. Where media reports were corroborated by the French Police. That you now make a complete U-turn on your reasoning

Go figure

Not the same thing at all. In the French case, the press reported that the Police only have profile sources, and we all know those are unreliable.

In the Mueller case, we have much more than mere profile sources. We can go looking for other evidence that informs us what Mueller has. Independent sources. Witnesses. Records. In many cases we have the direct evidence itself (as does Mueller).

What we can surmise is that Mueller has much, much more evidence than we do. We won't learn what it is until indictments come out, or until we learn in a Court hearing. Ultimately, we'll learn what he has either in a report on impeachment, or in a grand indictment. We'll have to wait and see.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:46 pm

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:
Michael Cohen is willing to speak with Special Counsel Robert Mueller about a “conspiracy to collude” with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign, his lawyer said on Tuesday night.

Cohen — who pleaded guilty earlier on Tuesday to helping Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon pay hush money to two women — wants to tell Mueller that Trump knew of an infamous 2016 meeting at Trump Tower and the Russian hacking of Democratic institutions before they took place, Lanny Davis told MSNBC.

“Mr. Cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows,” Davis told the network.

“Not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system in the 2016 election, which the Trump Tower meeting was all about, but also knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not Mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on.”

https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/cohen-willing-to-tell-mueller-about-conspiracy-to-collude-lawyer

Get ready for impeachment proceedings!

why did he leave it two years to talk about this?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:47 pm

gelico wrote:
Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/cohen-willing-to-tell-mueller-about-conspiracy-to-collude-lawyer

Get ready for impeachment proceedings!

why did he leave it two years to talk about this?

That's when he got caught.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So basically you have no idea and are going off media reports

Interesting, being as you said on the thread with the knife attack in France. Where media reports were corroborated by the French Police. That you now make a complete U-turn on your reasoning

Go figure

Not the same thing at all. In the French case, the press reported that the Police only have profile sources, and we all know those are unreliable.

In the Mueller case, we have much more than mere profile sources. We can go looking for other evidence that informs us what Mueller has. Independent sources. Witnesses. Records. In many cases we have the direct evidence itself (as does Mueller).

What we can surmise is that Mueller has much, much more evidence than we do. We won't learn what it is until indictments come out, or until we learn in a Court hearing. Ultimately, we'll learn what he has either in a report on impeachment, or in a grand indictment. We'll have to wait and see.

Its been corroborated by the French Police

This is a fact

On Mueller, you are going off the press with no corroborating evidence

This is a fact

You say surmise. is nothing more than speculating. Off someone, who only plea bargained when sentened to many years in jail.

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Not the same thing at all. In the French case, the press reported that the Police only have profile sources, and we all know those are unreliable.

In the Mueller case, we have much more than mere profile sources. We can go looking for other evidence that informs us what Mueller has. Independent sources. Witnesses. Records. In many cases we have the direct evidence itself (as does Mueller).

What we can surmise is that Mueller has much, much more evidence than we do. We won't learn what it is until indictments come out, or until we learn in a Court hearing. Ultimately, we'll learn what he has either in a report on impeachment, or in a grand indictment. We'll have to wait and see.

Its been corroborated by the French Police

This is a fact

No it isn't. It's only profile. Profiles are always bullshite.

Didge wrote:On Mueller, you are going off the press with no corroborating evidence

This is a fact

The press has plenty of facts. We could build a case against Trump right now, were it not for Justice Department policy not to indict a sitting president.

Didge wrote:You say surmise. is nothing more than speculating. Off someone, who only plea bargained when sentened to many years in jail.

Yep, someone under oath. Something the President is deathly afraid to do. Now, I wonder, why is that? Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 2190311264

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 2190311264

They got 'im. He's gone. Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia 2984306523

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Its been corroborated by the French Police

This is a fact

No it isn't. It's only profile. Profiles are always bullshite.

Didge wrote:Really? So an you disount the French Police here

The press has plenty of facts. We could build a case against Trump right now, were it not for Justice Department policy not to indict a sitting president.

Didge wrote:Double Dutch and you are now contradicting yourself. You discount the world media on the knife attack in Paris, but now clai the press has plenty of facts.

Is this only true in your mind, based on a bias with you?

Yep, someone under oath. Something the President is deathly afraid to do. Now, I wonder, why is that?

They got 'im. He's gone.

Well, I am being impatial and so far you have zero corroborating evidence

by Original Quill Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:06 am

Didge wrote:Well, I am being impatial and so far you have zero corroborating evidence

You are just wrong. More evidence is revealed every day in the NY Times and Washington Post.

by Andy Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:29 am

You forget Quill that unless it is posted on Fox news, it is all lies and fake news.
According to Trump

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:34 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Well, I am being impatial and so far you have zero corroborating evidence

You are just wrong. More evidence is revealed every day in the NY Times and Washington Post.

But you do not buy French news , when backed by the French Police?

by eddie Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:46 am

Angry Andy wrote:You forget Quill that unless it is posted on Fox news, it is all lies and fake news.
According to Trump

Well, to be fair, all you political extremists are like that, you only believe the men who you like and who talk like you.
Right?

by Andy Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:49 pm

eddie wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:You forget Quill that unless it is posted on Fox news, it is all lies and fake news.
According to Trump

Well, to be fair, all you political extremists are like that, you only believe the men who you like and who talk like you.
Right?

Not sure why you are defending Trump, Eds. He is a fat, ugly, womanizing billionaire with a stump of a cock (according to Stormed Daniels).
What COULD you see in him?

by Original Quill Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:31 pm

eddie wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:You forget Quill that unless it is posted on Fox news, it is all lies and fake news.
According to Trump

Well, to be fair, all you political extremists are like that, you only believe the men who you like and who talk like you.
Right?

You are talking about another matter. Sure, there are left and right publications: the Wall Street Journal is a good conservative periodical, and The Nation is a good liberal one. Both get strong marks for veracity, and hence reliability.

But, since the easy penetration of publishing that has come about because of the Internet, there has been a new axis: good and bad. Some sites have been well-sourced, and some poorly sourced. Thus, has come about a storied distinction between fake and legitimate news.

This development has been confused a bit by the advent of investigative reporting in the 1960's. This was the icon-busting attitude that the reporter need not necessarily stick with the institutional framing, but review the data (if valid) for new and different theories. Thus we have facts, and framing.

A degeneration of this new approach, is to confuse the two, to see altering facts as the same as altering framing. The degenerative ones asked, if we can vacillate a bit on framing, why can't we cheat on facts? Thus was invented fake news, a term has been coopted as an accusation, but has actual meaning. Fake news invents facts, not just framing.

Conservatives--who have need to lie as a result of the oft-repeated theory of the conservative contradiction--have seized upon fake news, and embraced it as conservative news. It has the right quality of malleability. Hence, outfits like Breitbart and Fox News have achieved a degree of respectability, even though they are horribly weak on factual reliability. They fulfill the conservative need to change the facts.

Conservative or liberal, I feel you can't go wrong if you stay on the 'reliable' side of the first dichotomy. The minute you go in for one of these looser Internet sources, you are entering the realm of the unreliable.

Fake news plays with your head, and leads to a certain senility, as we have seen in Trump. When you let go of your grasp (and belief) in facts, it is unanchored territory. In your groping, a fear and loathing develops and you end up desperately grasping anything/everything for certainty. In that state, authoritarianism seems to give one a sort of assurance. These factless believers inevitably turn to totalitarian beliefs and institutions to fill the void and uncertainty they feel.

That’s what we have right now. What do we see in Trump? A dictator tearing apart human lives at the border. Using religion to restrict travel. Applauding white-nationalism at Charlottesville. Ignoring the desperate in Puerto Rico. Grabbing wealth and giving it to the rich. Uncaring about whether people live or die, as long as he can destroy a healthcare system instated by his black predecessor. Creating new taxes at the border. And, in a classic authoro-submissive behavioral demonstration, showing extreme submissive behavior toward a higher authoritarian figure, Vladimir Putin.

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:10 pm

So he is a Far right Californian nationalist

by Original Quill Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:14 pm

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Didge wrote:So he is a Far right Californian nationalist

by Original Quill Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:19 pm

Trump's lawyer is willing to tell investigators that Trump colluded with Russia ZJ5Alq04Gk_1397519004085

And California is the fifth largest economy in the world. cheers

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:27 pm

Didge wrote:So he is a Far right Californian nationalist

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:11 am

Angry Andy wrote:
eddie wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:You forget Quill that unless it is posted on Fox news, it is all lies and fake news.
According to Trump

Well, to be fair, all you political extremists are like that, you only believe the men who you like and who talk like you.
Right?

Not sure why you are defending Trump, Eds. He is a fat, ugly, womanizing billionaire with a stump of a cock (according to Stormed Daniels).
What COULD you see in him?

I don’t see where I defended Trump? Can you show me so that I may explain myself?
Thanks.

So you dislike the fact that he’s fat with a small cock and that he’s ugly.

You should start writing his irrelevant tweets. You have a knack.

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