The role of the EU in the flooding of the Somerset levels

http://www.wellsjournal.co.uk/Somerset-flooding-EU-plan/story-20556464-detail/story.html

I very much doubt if anyone is going to be at all surprised to find that a major reason for the current flooding of the Somerset levels is that the EU has planned for it to happen for years - and our own government has been active in taking steps that made the current disaster inevitable.

One phrase which jumped out for me was "Take action to increase the frequency of flooding to deliver benefits locally or elsewhere"

I wonder how many of the people currently being evacuated, wondering if their homes are being ransacked by criminals, are seeing the "local benefits" bought by the "increased frequency of flooding"

The EU is a scapegoat all he time in the EU. It has brought peace to all of Europe unheard of in all of history. Yes it has its faults but I don't mind paying extra if a European government ensures we have peace.

Frankly even the loss of sovereignty doesn't bother me the leaders are left leaning so worker rights are to the fore. The nonsense talked about referenda is just that. No one cares except a few fringe parties and the Tory right.

Frankly I would rather do without the vote they are doing a great job.

Hamster wrote:The EU is a scapegoat all he time in the EU. It has brought peace to all of Europe unheard of in all of history. Yes I has its faults but I don't mind paying extra if a European government ensures we have peace.

Frankly even the loss of sovereignty doesn't bother me the leaders are left leaning so worker rights are to the fore. The nonsense talked about referenda is just that. No one cares except a few fringe parties and the Tory right.

Frankly I would rather do without the vote the are doing a great job.

I am sure all the people being left homeless and bereaved would agree with you.

Hamster wrote:The EU is a scapegoat all he time in the EU. It has brought peace to all of Europe unheard of in all of history. Yes it has its faults but I don't mind paying extra if a European government ensures we have peace.

Frankly even the loss of sovereignty doesn't bother me the leaders are left leaning so worker rights are to the fore. The nonsense talked about referenda is just that. No one cares except a few fringe parties and the Tory right.

Frankly I would rather do without the vote they are doing a great job.

just how far is your head up your arse ( can I say that ,its not homophobic is it ).

I merely stated that the EU gets al the blame all the time. This is RW press exaggeration.

The main parties in the EU are very pro EU except for an element in the Tory party. That says it all. They know truly what s best for people not the fringe parties that pander to the lowest common denominator.

I'm not saying all EU legislation is good we should seek to change that through the local Parliament rather than fight the leaders all of the time.

Actually the point of democracy is that people get to choose what is best for themselves at the ballot box - not that some unelected commissioners from countries who dont even have the same legal code get to decide what is best for them.

The EU documents make it really clear that local power is just not part of the plan (other than reducing national government to the level of local government) - and their methods are clear to see in Greece and other places.

You support them - that is fine - I support small government chosen by the people to do the peoples will and I can and am and will fight for that

While you can to be frank we gave up national borders decades ago. I will be honest and say we didn't get a say but the politicians have given away the powers to the EU we are more like a town council.

The people get what they deserve they haven't bothered and my point is sphinx hey still don't.

Labour will get back in next time a party that is pro EU and is anti referendum. It didn't even keep a promise to give us a referendum which rather proves my point most people don't care some are for and a few are against.

The active folk are only 2/5ths at best on either side of the argument. Therefore it follows most are in agreement with me the EU is good for us and our politicians are on message.

I see an awful lot of people doing an awful lot of bothering.

UKIPs biggest hurdle has been the "I would vote for you but you cant win so there is no point" - now people are seeing that actually UKIP can win (and I was actually on the ground at one of the those victories - even we did not really believe until that count was read out - and the candidate did not have the foggiest idea of what to say - magic does not describe it) we are over coming that - people who in previous elections didnt vote for UKIP because they believed it a wasted vote are starting to believe it might not be wasted - there is a lot of work to do but it is getting done. Those with experience of other parties campaigning are constantly amazed at the energy we have - that instead of talking we get doing. It has taken a bit of time to get started - but to go from nothing to third party in 20 years is not a record to be sneered at - and the further we get the faster we get.

There was a time I thought democracy was best for us but politicians convinced me otherwise. Even Thatcher for whom I had great respect gave up powers though in fairness she was conned by Europhile MPs.

I'm being pragmatic Labour is going to win therefore UKIP s am irrelevance. Sorry not an irrelevance they are going to help the Tories lose. The anti EU vote is split between the Tories and UKIP. Labour and the Liberals will work together next time even if Labour don't get a majority. The Liberals have no interest in referenda ether and worked with Labour to block the referendum bill.

I'm afraid you may as well get used to it he next government isn't interested in democracy at local level.

On a positive note the French are no longer running the roost.

Absolute nonsense to say the EU are behind the floods on the Somerset Levels.

1. Farmers have been given subsidies to strip the vegetation from the land, including on the hills, this has not only caused the water that would have been taken up by the trees etc, especially on the hills, to flow down onto the levels. Its also helped in the silting up of the rivers. Because of the root system of trees, they take the water much deeper into the earth.

2. The Sedgemoor Drain has not had the equipment updated and kept working properly, it is a huge component in draining the levels.

3. The Parrot and The Tone have been allowed to silt up by the Environmental Agency and can only take about a third of the water away that they should be able to manage.

Sassy wrote:Absolute nonsense to say the EU are behind the floods on the Somerset Levels.

1.   Farmers have been given subsidies to strip the vegetation from the land, including on the hills, this has not only caused the water that would have been taken up by the trees etc, especially on the hills, to flow down onto the levels.   Its also helped in the silting up of the rivers.   Because of the root system of trees, they take the water much deeper into the earth.

2.  The Sedgemoor Drain has not had the equipment updated and kept working properly, it is a huge component in draining the levels.

3.  The Parrot and The Tone have been allowed to silt up by the Environmental Agency and can only take about a third of the water away that they should be able to manage.

Yes and if you read the article you would see how these things were done because of EU directives and that the resulting flooding was an intended consequence.

Hamster wrote:There was a time I thought democracy as best for us but politicians convinced me otherwise. Even Thatcher for whom I had great respect gave up powers though in fairness she was conned by Europhile MPs.

I'm being pragmatic Labour is going to win therefore UKIP s am irrelevance. Sorry not an irrelevance they are going to help the Tories lose. The anti EU vote is split between the Tories and UKIP. Labour and the Liberals will work together next time even if Labour don't get a majority. The Liberals have no interest in referenda ether and worked with Labour to block the referendum bill.

I'm afraid you may as well get used to it he next government isn't interested in democracy at local level.

On a positive note the French are no longer running the roost.

Labour have an exact policy in place for devolving democracy to local level and taking it out of the hands of Whitehall.

In fact bringing back democracy at local level in going to be one of the main platforms of their campaign.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:Absolute nonsense to say the EU are behind the floods on the Somerset Levels.

1.   Farmers have been given subsidies to strip the vegetation from the land, including on the hills, this has not only caused the water that would have been taken up by the trees etc, especially on the hills, to flow down onto the levels.   Its also helped in the silting up of the rivers.   Because of the root system of trees, they take the water much deeper into the earth.

2.  The Sedgemoor Drain has not had the equipment updated and kept working properly, it is a huge component in draining the levels.

3.  The Parrot and The Tone have been allowed to silt up by the Environmental Agency and can only take about a third of the water away that they should be able to manage.

Yes and if you read the article you would see how these things were done because of EU directives and that the resulting flooding was an intended consequence.

That's his interpretation. The levels have always been allowed to flood, that's what they are there for, but the loss of vegetation, which is not just on the Levels and the hills around them, but is because of a subsidy for all farmers all over the country, and the non dredging of the rivers, neither of which are part of an EU directive but were decisions taken by both governments in this country, and they were both wrong.

Perhaps you should read this Sphinx:

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/flood_risk/


A new EU Floods Directive

Directive 2007/60/EC on the assessment and management of flood risks entered into force on 26 November 2007. This Directive now requires Member States to assess if all water courses and coast lines are at risk from flooding, to map the flood extent and assets and humans at risk in these areas and to take adequate and coordinated measures to reduce this flood risk. With this Directive also reinforces the rights of the public to access this information and to have a say in the planning process.

The Directive was proposed by the European Commission on 18/01/2006, and was finally published in the Official Journal on 6 November 2007. Its aim is to reduce and manage the risks that floods pose to human health, the environment, cultural heritage and economic activity. The Directive requires Member States to first carry out a preliminary assessment by 2011 to identify the river basins and associated coastal areas at risk of flooding. For such zones they would then need to draw up flood risk maps by 2013 and establish flood risk management plans focused on prevention, protection and preparedness by 2015. The Directive applies to inland waters as well as all coastal waters across the whole territory of the EU ..............

That was the local environment officials who give the EU a bad name. I'm not impressed with Lord Smith definitely a man without a humble bone in his body.

Well, very few men have humble bones in the bodies lol. The EU had its budget cut by a huge amount two years in a row, so who knows what decisions were made because of that.

Sassy wrote:Well, very few men have humble bones in the bodies lol.   The EU had its budget cut by a huge amount two years in a row, so who knows what decisions were made because of that.

That's a good point that will change once we have a budget set at the centre with taxation harmonised across all member states.

I have no time for petty local politicians all the do is blame Brussels for their own shortcomings.

Well, having read Irn's thread about how the government lied about giving equal money to all, when flood measures got the tiniest piece of the pie, I'm beginning to feel some sympathy for him.

Perhaps I doubt it though Labour has no more credibility than the current government perhaps less. They at least had a majority and made mistakes the current government is comprised of two parties pulling in two directions.

The next government as I have said elsewhere will be Labour no doubt that will please you. I think it's irrelevant, they put in train Lisbon which in turn will initiate another treaty. That next treaty will complete the handover of powers in effect they will have the levers of power over the Town hall nd the EU will run the country.

I believe that's what the people must want because they haven't been interested for years. Indeed as Labour signed Lisbon and as they are about to vote for Labour again that is what most want. Don't you agree?

I don't claim to know what people want Drinky, they didn't object when Heath took us in or when Maggie signed Single European Act, which created the single European market - one of the biggest acts of European integration. I want us to stay in Europe, but I want a referendum so that when people say yes, other people can't whinge about it. And I don't think for one minute they will be running the town halls.

I'm much more concerned about the TPP and the way big companies will be running our world and we won't have a say in it.

I believe I am Shady and now Drinky. Are you referring to me?

Well, I suppose I got a bit mixed up, thought I was watching Top Gear, Clarkson and Hamster lol

Sassy wrote:I don't claim to know what people want Drinky, they didn't object when Heath took us in or when Maggie signed Single European Act, which created the single European market - one of the biggest acts of European integration.   I want us to stay in Europe, but I want a referendum so that when people say yes, other people can't whinge about it.   And I don't think for one minute they will be running the town halls.

I'm much more concerned about the TPP and the way big companies will be running our world and we won't have a say in it.

"they didn't object when Heath took us in or when Maggie signed Single European Act "to quote you' that is my point. I am saying your desire if that is the case to have a labour lead country is irrelevant. The EU has been the de facto leadership of this country for decades what was left of the powers has been squandered. All governments fight shy of taking hard decisions they all promise panaceas they all bask in power for 5 years do nothing but harm.

I do recall having a referendum then though perhaps you are to young to remember.

And I have said I want a referendum.   And I do think it is rather paranoid to pretend the EU is running the country.   If we really don't like something, we can always leave. After all, the OP had the premise that the EU caused the floodings, then it was shown they didn't.

Which was my point if you read back. You are pushing against an open door. Do you like arguing with yourself?

As for leaving with respect I think you have truly missed the point. Who will take us out if the party that will win the next election is adamant they don't want a referendum then or in the future.

What's paranoid about that?

I am paraniod about people sidling up to me and whispering Shady then Drinky. That Phildidge really is spooky the way he does that.

I have since found out who shady is by the way he is a pirate I understand. What a strange forum this is.

Hamster wrote:Which was my point if you read back. You are pushing against an open door. Do you like arguing with yourself?

As for leaving with respect I think you have truly missed the point. Who will take us out if the party that will win the next election is adamant they don't want a referendum then or in the future.

What's paranoid about that?

That's not true. The proposal by the Labour Party is that any new legislation that transfers more power to the EU will trigger a referendum. That's exactly the same policy that David Cameron was promoting just over two years ago before he caved in to try and cover the problem he was having with the rebels in his party and the UKIP problem.

I have update my profile in keeping with the sea faring tradition. Having been called Shady most of the night I felt it appropriate.

I think not friend is my answer. If they wanted a referendum it cold have happened last time cold it not?

It didn't precisely because they were feared they would lose instead of selling it they bottle out.

The Eu is a reality that isn't going to give up its grip and there is insufficient strength of character in any politician other than a few on the right and a precious few on the left who are ignored.

Labour Tory it matters not we are in it and the EU already has the levers of power.

Seamen Staines wrote:I have update my profile in keeping with the sea faring tradition. Having been called Shady most of the night I felt it appropriate.

I think not friend is my answer. If they wanted a referendum it cold have happened last time cold it not?

It didn't precisely because they were feared they would lose instead of selling it they bottle out.

The Eu is a reality that isn't going to give up its grip and there is insufficient strength of character in any politician other than a few on the right and a precious few on the left who are ignored.

Labour Tory it matters not we are in it and the EU already has the levers of power.

We have never been offered an in/out referendum on the EU. The only referendum we ever got was by the Wilson Labour government on EEC membership.

The current policy by the Labour government is the same as Cameron was saying was Tory policy until he caved in,,,,,isn't it?

   NOTHING LIKE those gormless, witless, spineless and brainless British politicians and their media chums, using the faceless and nameless evil gnomes of the distant "EU" monster as their scapegoat of the moment...

CONVENIENTLY providing them with a timely and welcome  distraction to take the public spotlight off the one simple fact that it was the BRITISH government (of all colours and persuasions over the past 40+ years..) and it's bureaucracies that put the country into the position it is in today !

AND allowing the giant multinational corporations (e.g. the likes of Syngenta, BP, BAT, BHP-Billiton, Anglo-American, DutchShell, News/Sky/Fox..) and their slimy lobbyists, to continue with their pollution-spewing, global-warming, land-clearing and shonky-development activities, to their heart's content and largely unhindered by authorities or their supposed "watch dogs" !