You're all a bit Gay

YOU may think you’re only attracted to the opposite sex, but strictly straight people don’t exist, according to a psychologist.

It turns out we’re all bisexual, getting turned on by both men and women, regardless of what we say.

Researchers from Cornell University asked volunteers to watch a series of porn videos to test what turned them on and what didn’t.

Their research questions society’s strict definitions of sexuality and warns that we still struggle with the idea of bisexuality, especially when it comes to men.

Lead author Rich Savin-Williams suggests that sexuality exists on a spectrum and that younger generations are more open to the idea of fluid sexuality than older adults.

Both male and female volunteers were asked to watch porn involving men or women as part of the research.

Experts measured how much their pupils dilated — a sign of sexual arousal.

Women’s eyes dilated watching both men with women and women with women.

And men’s pupils dilated watching both men and women masturbate, regardless of how they identified sexually.


Dr Savin-Williams warned that cultural expectations of sexuality need to change in order for people to be more comfortable with who they are attracted to.

“We’ve always recognised mostly straight women, that is, women who mostly are straight but if the right woman comes along, well maybe she’ll try it out. We used to think that was only a female phenomenon,” Dr Savin-Williams told Broadly.

“There are aspects [of male sexuality] along a continuum, just as we have always recognised with women.

“Men have gotten so much cultural c**p put on them that even if a man does have some sexual attraction to guys, they would never say it.”

Previous research has suggested that women’s sexuality can change throughout their life.

Psychologist Dr Lisa Diamond of the University of Utah said it was not always the case that “once a lesbian, always a lesbian”.

She added: “Historically, sexual orientation models assumed only two categories, exclusively homosexual and exclusively heterosexual.

“Anything else is ‘transitional’, ‘confusion’, ‘experimental’. As a result, researchers routinely eliminated bisexual individuals from research samples. Big mistake.”

Surveys show more people identify themselves as “mostly-but-not completely heterosexual” than exclusively heterosexual. The smallest group is those that are exclusively attracted to the same sex.

But other research has found that being gay is written in your DNA.

US researchers from NorthShore University in Illinois found sections of genes that may influence whether a man is gay or straight.

They scanned the DNA of 1,100 gay and 1,200 straight men and found two distinct areas of genes they believe play a part in male sexual orientation.

Rich Savin-Williams has written a book, Mostly Straight: Sexual Fluidity Among Men that follows on from the research.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/sex/according-to-a-new-study-straight-people-dont-exist/news-story/02721771c94ea0937bb2e4e3da36cfd4

veya_victaous wrote:

YOU may think you’re only attracted to the opposite sex, but strictly straight people don’t exist, according to a psychologist.

It turns out we’re all bisexual, getting turned on by both men and women, regardless of what we say.

Researchers from Cornell University asked volunteers to watch a series of porn videos to test what turned them on and what didn’t.

Their research questions society’s strict definitions of sexuality and warns that we still struggle with the idea of bisexuality, especially when it comes to men.

Lead author Rich Savin-Williams suggests that sexuality exists on a spectrum and that younger generations are more open to the idea of fluid sexuality than older adults.

Both male and female volunteers were asked to watch porn involving men or women as part of the research.

Experts measured how much their pupils dilated — a sign of sexual arousal.

Women’s eyes dilated watching both men with women and women with women.

And men’s pupils dilated watching both men and women masturbate, regardless of how they identified sexually.


Dr Savin-Williams warned that cultural expectations of sexuality need to change in order for people to be more comfortable with who they are attracted to.

“We’ve always recognised mostly straight women, that is, women who mostly are straight but if the right woman comes along, well maybe she’ll try it out. We used to think that was only a female phenomenon,” Dr Savin-Williams told Broadly.

“There are aspects [of male sexuality] along a continuum, just as we have always recognised with women.

“Men have gotten so much cultural c**p put on them that even if a man does have some sexual attraction to guys, they would never say it.”

Previous research has suggested that women’s sexuality can change throughout their life.

Psychologist Dr Lisa Diamond of the University of Utah said it was not always the case that “once a lesbian, always a lesbian”.

She added: “Historically, sexual orientation models assumed only two categories, exclusively homosexual and exclusively heterosexual.

“Anything else is ‘transitional’, ‘confusion’, ‘experimental’. As a result, researchers routinely eliminated bisexual individuals from research samples. Big mistake.”

Surveys show more people identify themselves as “mostly-but-not completely heterosexual” than exclusively heterosexual. The smallest group is those that are exclusively attracted to the same sex.

But other research has found that being gay is written in your DNA.

US researchers from NorthShore University in Illinois found sections of genes that may influence whether a man is gay or straight.

They scanned the DNA of 1,100 gay and 1,200 straight men and found two distinct areas of genes they believe play a part in male sexual orientation.

Rich Savin-Williams has written a book, Mostly Straight: Sexual Fluidity Among Men that follows on from the research.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/sex/according-to-a-new-study-straight-people-dont-exist/news-story/02721771c94ea0937bb2e4e3da36cfd4

Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure about 'everyone' being like this. I know I haven't ever felt even the slightest bit of sexual or romantic attraction for a woman, and believe me there were points in my life where I would have been glad if I had. So no, I reckon most people fall one way or the other, with no middle ground or uncertainty. The rest are just different shades of bisexual, there just might potentially be more bisexuals than we realised.

Didge wrote:I would like Eilzel's thoughts on this and have pondered this many times

Whilst I certainly subscribe to the view that people are only attracted to what they are attracted to. Including only the same sex. To me, many men,  who state they are gay, are actually bi-sexual. As many have had relationships with women and married them. Even having children. Though its very clear there is men only attracted to other men. I think the same applies to women also. Where they have been married to men and are gay.

Its a serious point, in how they must have been able to get sexually aroused to have sex with their wives and then they get pregnant. Not knocking and just think, most gay people, not all, are in reality bi-sexual, but just have a preference. Whether male or female

I mean some people are turned on by a variety of porn and even men can be turned on by gay porn by still not ever but attracted to men for example. Its the sexual fantasy they are attracted to.

So whilst I think its very real that some people are gay, within men or women. I actually think its more rare than people believe. I think many are actually bi-sexual and actually and simple prefer their own gender.

What do you think mate?

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure about 'everyone' being like this. I know I haven't ever felt even the slightest bit of sexual or romantic attraction for a woman, and believe me there were points in my life where I would have been glad if I had. So no, I reckon most people fall one way or the other, with no middle ground or uncertainty. The rest are just different shades of bisexual, there just might potentially be more bisexuals than we realised.

Do you know mate

One day you should explain what it was like growing up being gay.

I think It would help those who are clearly homophobic, actually come to understand what you have been through.

You know I grew up Catholic, being homophobic being brainwashed with Catholicism and once in my teens and came to know a couple of gay friends. Saw I was being fed a line of religious bullshit and opened my eyes to this hate. It takes knowing the story of people to help change peoples views

Just a thought, but I think it would help

I think many people simple now except homosexuality, but never truely understand what many young people go through, who are gay. To me, speaking openly about this surely helps educate people???

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:I would like Eilzel's thoughts on this and have pondered this many times

Whilst I certainly subscribe to the view that people are only attracted to what they are attracted to. Including only the same sex. To me, many men,  who state they are gay, are actually bi-sexual. As many have had relationships with women and married them. Even having children. Though its very clear there is men only attracted to other men. I think the same applies to women also. Where they have been married to men and are gay.

Its a serious point, in how they must have been able to get sexually aroused to have sex with their wives and then they get pregnant. Not knocking and just think, most gay people, not all, are in reality bi-sexual, but just have a preference. Whether male or female

I mean some people are turned on by a variety of porn and even men can be turned on by gay porn by still not ever but attracted to men for example. Its the sexual fantasy they are attracted to.

So whilst I think its very real that some people are gay, within men or women. I actually think its more rare than people believe. I think many are actually bi-sexual and actually and simple prefer their own gender.

What do you think mate?

I don't think most gay people are really bi at all.

I think if most were, they'd take the easier path of just settling down with a woman in most cases.

That some did marry and have kids just shows a desperation factor, especially in the past, to conform or hide their sexuality. A gay man can arouse himself same as any man tbf, enough to get the job done. I personally find the idea of sex with a woman pretty awful, as most straight men no doubt do of having sex with a man. BUT I think there is cultural created 'ick factor' toward gay sex which there isn't for straight sex. That social barrier makes gay sex almost unthinkable for straight men; but in desperate times, that cultural digust of straight sex doesn't exist.

On the same note, I also don't think straight inmates or students from all boys boarding schools, who engage in gay sexual conduct, are gay either. They're a just getting it wherever they can, they aren't bi either.

Bisexuality, real bisexuality, where one is genuinely attracted to and aroused by both sexes, is the rarity imo.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

Do you know mate

One day you should explain what it was like growing up being gay.

I think It would help those who are clearly homophobic, actually come to understand what you have been through.

You know I grew up Catholic, being homophobic being brainwashed with Catholicism and once in my teens and came to know a couple of gay friends. Saw I was being fed a line of religious bullshit and opened my eyes to this hate. It takes knowing the story of people to help change peoples views

Just a thought, but I think it would help

I think many people simple now except homosexuality, but never truely understand what many young people go through, who are gay. To me, speaking openly about this surely helps educate people???

I might get back to this one later

Syl wrote:I think Eilzels point is spot on.
Many gay men may have married a woman and lived a traditional family life because it was expected of them.
As for being able to perform sexually with a person they are not the slightest bit attracted to (ie a woman) the most powerful sex organ is the brain....and imagination is a wonderful thing.

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:I think Eilzels point is spot on.
Many gay men may have married a woman and lived a traditional family life because it was expected of them.
As for being able to perform sexually with a person they are not the slightest bit attracted to (ie a woman) the most powerful sex organ is the brain....and imagination is a wonderful thing.

But, how can you get sexually aroused to the opposite sex, if gay?

They led lives for years being sexually aroused to the opposite sex

That would mean they are bi-sexual and prefer men

So they would not be gay, but bisexual

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:


But, how can you get sexually aroused to the opposite sex, if gay?

They led lives for years being sexually aroused to the opposite sex

That would mean they are bi-sexual and prefer men

So they would not be gay, but bisexual

I dont think so.
They are gay but forced to live in a straight relationship.

On the flip side men who rape other men are often straight, men in prisons who have relationships probably wouldn't fancy a man if there were women available, they probably dont even fancy them inside, but it's the only thing available, and it's a release.

Eilzel wrote:My assumption would be that Syl is right. It's all imagination. And remember, years of social conditioning made many gay men of the past convinced that straight sex was 'right'. From there, imagination would have to do all the work. And like those inmates who fuck men, it can happen.

You'd have to ask an individual how they managed, I wouldn't know lol

Do you think inmates who fuck men are bi?

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:

I dont think so.
They are gay but forced to live in a straight relationship.

On the flip side men who rape other men are often straight, men in prisons who have relationships probably wouldn't fancy a man if there were women available, they probably dont even fancy them inside, but it's the only thing available, and it's a release.

This is coming from someone who is not gay trying to say what it is????

Come again??

So actually answer the point and why I asked Eilzel and he said he cannot be attracted to women

Thus he is gay

Hence, how can gay men be sexually turned on and have sex with women??

They would thus be bi-sexual, but have a preference for the same sex.

Well I would say that men who rape men, are also sexually attracted to men. Thus being bi-sexual

Its that simple

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:My assumption would be that Syl is right. It's all imagination. And remember, years of social conditioning made many gay men of the past convinced that straight sex was 'right'. From there, imagination would have to do all the work. And like those inmates who fuck men, it can happen.

You'd have to ask an individual how they managed, I wouldn't know lol

Do you think inmates who fuck men are bi?

But you are not looking at this objectively

You can not be sexually turned on by a woman

That would mean you are gay

Its not about being convinced but whether you are turned on sexually by someone

Many men who claim to be gay and were married had sexual relationships with women

That would mean they are bi-sexual, but prefer men

That would mean they just have a preference for the same sex

Yes I do think that inmates that fuck men are bi

They would prefer women, but have no problem getting sexually aroused fucking men, do they?

As the majority of inmates do not fuck their inmates, do they??

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:


This is coming from someone who is not gay trying to say what it is????

Come again??

So actually answer the point and why I asked Eilzel and he said he cannot be attracted to women

Thus he is gay

Hence, how can gay men be sexually turned on and have sex with women??

They would thus be bi-sexual, but have a preference for the same sex.

Well I would say that men who rape men, are also sexually attracted to men. Thus being bi-sexual

Its that simple

You are not bi-sexual but you are trying to say what it is....same thing.

It makes sense to me that not all sexual actions are based on love or lust....men who rape men are driven by power not desire.
If you were starving you would eat any food available wouldnt you?  Sex is a basic human need, just like food is.

But I still think that many gay men who have sexual  relationships with women do so because thats the way society expects them to live....hopefully in the modern world this will soon be a thing of the past.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

But you are not looking at this objectively

You can not be sexually turned on by a woman

That would mean you are gay

Its not about being convinced but whether you are turned on sexually by someone

Many men who claim to be gay and were married had sexual relationships with women

That would mean they are bi-sexual, but prefer men

That would mean they just have a preference for the same sex

Yes I do think that inmates that fuck men are bi

They would prefer women, but have no problem getting sexually aroused fucking men, do they?

As the majority of inmates do not fuck their inmates, do they??

It comes down to what is arousing them then.

If I had lived in the 60s, it is very likely I'd have married a woman, and though she would never have aroused me, it is possible that if it came to it I could have aroused myself (through whatever means, imagination for instance) and got the job done, however unpleasant.

Those inmates, I seriously doubt, see some other inmate and think 'he looks a bit of alright'. It is purely a way to get what a man believes he needs.

Bisexuality isn't defined by your ability to have sex with any person by any means; it means you are attracted to and fall in love with people of bith genders. Which isn't the case for most inmates or gay men who married women.

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:

You are not bi-sexual but you are trying to say what it is....same thing.

It makes sense to me that not all sexual actions are based on love or lust....men who rape men are driven by power not desire.
If you were starving you would eat any food available wouldnt you?  Sex is a basic human need, just like food is.

But I still think that many gay men who have sexual  relationships with women do so because thats the way society expects them to live....hopefully in the modern world this will soon be a thing of the past.

What has love got to do with sexual attraction?

Sorry, but that is completely stupid

We are talking about being sexually aroused

Eilzel has stated he cannot be sexually aroused by women

That means he is gay, which is cool

Men who claim to be gay and have slept with women, have been sexually aroused by them. It simple means they are bi-sexual and prefer men.

Its that simple

Hence why I say being homosexual is more rare than people think. I also think its very fine to be homosexual if people are, but the fact is, and the reality. Its more likely that people are actually bi-sexual.

Its why I posed this question to Eilzel

I mean, how can a gay man get a hard on and perform sexually with a women?

Explain that to me?

That has nothing to do with love

You can love someone, as we do are parents, siblings, friends, without being sexually attracted to them

Love would only simple enhance that sexual experince with a partner you are going out with

You do understand that?

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:



What has love got to do with sexual attraction?

Sorry, but that is completely stupid

We are talking about being sexually aroused

Eilzel has stated he cannot be sexually aroused by women

That means he is gay, which is cool

Men who claim to be gay and have slept with women, have been sexually aroused by them. It simple means they are bi-sexual and prefer men.

Its that simple

Hence why I say being homosexual is more rare than people think. I also think its very fine to be homosexual if people are, but the fact is, and the reality. Its more likely that people are actually bi-sexual.

Its why I posed this question to Eilzel

I mean, how can a gay man get a hard on and perform sexually with a women?

Explain that to me?

That has nothing to do with love

You can love someone, as we do are parents, siblings, friends, without being sexually attracted to them

Love would only simple enhance that sexual experince with a partner you are going out with

You do understand that?

I understand everything you are saying, I just dont agree with most of it.

What Eilzel says makes sense to me.
I have answered you how men (and women too) can perform without being sexually attracted to the person they are having sex with, imagination, need, power, hunger.

Thats it really....off out to enjoy the cooler weather. Laters.

Eilzel wrote:Didge, I bet 90% of men with a working penis can masturbate even without any visual stimuli. Why is that?

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Didge, I bet 90% of men with a working penis can masturbate even without any visual stimuli. Why is that?

Because they can visualize this within their mind mate

I am sure you have done so many times yourself (not mocking either) and it was always based on the perfect naked form of a man?

True?

You are still avoiding the point, how where its very evident to me. That yes there is people who are 100% gay, but where people profess to be gay and have sexual relations with the opposite sex through marriage. Are thus actually bi-sexual, but with a massive preference towards the same sex.

Where just like homosexuality, there is nothing wrong also with being bi-sexual. I am simple raising the point that to me, I think a big percentage of gay men and women are in fact bi-sexual with more of a preference to their own sex. I just want to explore this view point. So am not knocking and to me think it has validity

Hence, I ask you, could you be sexually aroused by a woman?

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

Because they can visualize this within their mind mate

I am sure you have done so many times yourself (not mocking either) and it was always based on the perfect naked form of a man?

True?

You are still avoiding the point, how where its very evident to me. That yes there is people who are 100% gay, but where people profess to be gay and have sexual relations with the opposite sex through marriage. Are thus actually bi-sexual, but with a massive preference towards the same sex.

Where just like homosexuality, there is nothing wrong also with being bi-sexual. I am simple raising the point that to me, I think a big percentage of gay men and women are in fact bi-sexual with more of a preference to their own sex. I just want to explore this view point. So am not knocking and to me think it has validity

Hence, I ask you, could you be sexually aroused by a woman?

No. And nor were many of those gay men who married women. They would have gotten themselves aroused thinking of men, and maintained that arousal with similar thoughts. I'm sure there are stories out there of men who were in this situation.

Eilzel wrote:I'm saying that as a gay man, I'd have likely done the same in their situation at the time, and I do have some limited experience in this area which I'll get to when answering your question about growing up gay.

Of course they'll have cared for them, deeply even, it doesn't mean they need to have felt sexual attraction toward them.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I'm saying that as a gay man, I'd have likely done the same in their situation at the time, and I do have some limited experience in this area which I'll get to when answering your question about growing up gay.

Of course they'll have cared for them, deeply even, it doesn't mean they need to have felt sexual attraction toward them.

You just contradicted yourself

You said you cannot get sexually aroused by a woman and say that you would do the same in that situation???

I think you would be hard pressed to fool a woman into marrying you, if you cannot get sexually aroused with them mate

Like I said, the reality is yes there is some gay people, but the majority are actually bisexual, with more a prefernce to the same sex

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

You just contradicted yourself

You said you cannot get sexually aroused by a woman and say that you would do the same in that situation???

I think you would be hard pressed to fool a woman into marrying you, if you cannot get sexually aroused with them mate

Like I said, the reality is yes there is some gay people, but the majority are actually bisexual, with more a prefernce to the same sex

That bolded statement is absolute guesswork on your part, you cannot possibly have the evidence to back that up. Not only are you assuming that gay men who married women are sexually aroused by women; but you're also assuming most gay men have had sexual experiences with women too, which is almost certainly not the case.

Didge wrote: Actually its based on evidence where many men have been married to women. You are not facing the reality here. Where again many women agreed to be married to men and women certainly know when someome is effectionate towards them. Its not something you can lie about. Where the reality is many would have been sexually aroused by their wives. I have stated that there is deffinately gay men, but where they have been married to women, they are most diffinately bi-sexual, but with more a preference towards men

To go back to my own experience; I actually had a girlfriend, a few years before I came out to my friends and family. Let me tell you now, I was absolutely not attracted to this girl whatsoever. She was really into me though. You see, I am not 'obviously gay', so most people never thought I was and that made it easy for me to pretend I wasn't. We met on a night out with mutual friends at Jilly's Rockworld in Manchester (now a Tesco's, sadly...). She was all over me; not to be full of it, but she was. And I, being the closeted young guy I was, and being around friends, I just thought - let's just go with it. She had a great personality tbh, so there was that. We touched each other a little and kissed and left it there for the night.

Didge wrote: But you never had sex with her. And as seen was not sexually aroused. Hence its something you could not fool her with. Again where men have been married, they have lived active sexual lives with their wives. Which means they are bisexual. There is no getting wround this. You simple have to be sexually aroused with a woman for this to happen and maintain an erection through sex. Hence to me, those men are not gay but bisexual. With more a preference towards men

So this isn't conjecture on my part, didge. This is lived experience.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

You just contradicted yourself

You said you cannot get sexually aroused by a woman and say that you would do the same in that situation???

I think you would be hard pressed to fool a woman into marrying you, if you cannot get sexually aroused with them mate

Like I said, the reality is yes there is some gay people, but the majority are actually bisexual, with more a prefernce to the same sex

That bolded statement is absolute guesswork on your part, you cannot possibly have the evidence to back that up. Not only are you assuming that gay men who married women are sexually aroused by women; but you're also assuming most gay men have had sexual experiences with women too, which is almost certainly not the case.

Didge wrote: Actually its based on evidence where many men have been married to women. You are not facing the reality here. Where again many women agreed to be married to men and women certainly know when someome is effectionate towards them. Its not something you can lie about. Where the reality is many would have been sexually aroused by their wives. I have stated that there is deffinately gay men, but where they have been married to women, they are most diffinately bi-sexual, but with more a preference towards men

To go back to my own experience; I actually had a girlfriend, a few years before I came out to my friends and family. Let me tell you now, I was absolutely not attracted to this girl whatsoever. She was really into me though. You see, I am not 'obviously gay', so most people never thought I was and that made it easy for me to pretend I wasn't. We met on a night out with mutual friends at Jilly's Rockworld in Manchester (now a Tesco's, sadly...). She was all over me; not to be full of it, but she was. And I, being the closeted young guy I was, and being around friends, I just thought - let's just go with it. She had a great personality tbh, so there was that. We touched each other a little and kissed and left it there for the night.

Didge wrote: But you never had sex with her. And as seen was not sexually aroused. Hence its something you could not fool her with. Again where men have been married, they have lived active sexual lives with their wives. Which means they are bisexual. There is no getting wround this. You simple have to be sexually aroused with a woman for this to happen and maintain an erection through sex. Hence to me, those men are not gay but bisexual. With more a preference towards men

So this isn't conjecture on my part, didge. This is lived experience.

You are still avoiding themain issue here mate. These men would have dated and slept many times being effectionate towards their girlfirends, for then those women to agree to marry them. Its not a single incident but something that goes on for years. So to me, there are not gay but bisexual. You are certainly gay by your statements. I would never deny this, but if someone claimed to be gay and had an active sex life with a former girlfriend/wife. Then I would see them as bisexual and I think that is not wrong to say so. If that person denied this, then to me, they would be in denial. I bet if you asked many of them. They would not deny they were sexually aroused with their wives. They simple prefer men.

Didge wrote:Some stats for you Eilzel

20 percent of all gay men in America are in a heterosexual marriage
50 percent of all gay men in America have fathered children
40 percent of all lesbians in America are married to a male partner
75 percent of all lesbians have children

Eilzel wrote:

That's just your opinion, though. You are going of nothing but your own opinion here. Which is fine, but in your previous post you suggest it was a fact.

Didge wrote:I am rationalizing that it has to be a fact, based on evidence and the fact these men or women as the case maybe, have been sexually aroused by the opposite sex.

I know many gay men, and none of them would ever say have been aroused by a woman. I also have my own experience. This is all far beyond opinion.

Didge wrote:Using the opinions of people is irrelevant, espcially when these very same people. If involved in sexually relationships with women. Are to me in denial, that they are in reality bisexual

Men can arouse themselves when they masturbate.
Men can think of other things when having sex with someone they are not attracted to.

Didge wrote:Maintaining an erection during sex with a woman, is a completely different ball park and again you do not want to even contemplate this reality here(I see you do admit to this later)

There are two statements that are ironclad facts. They are the only facts either of us have presented in this discussion.

Didge wrote:I disagree. As seen, its one thing to jerk off imaginging a sexual fanatasy. Its completely a different aspect altogether to date, have sex with someone, for them to agree to marry them

To concede 1 point to you, I am sure that SOME men who married women, were attracted to them despite being more attracted to men. Those people ARE bisexual.
But there is NO evidence that that is the majority of gay men who ever married a woman.

Didge wrote:So you do agree, but only have issue, with the numbers with me

And to reiterate, most gay men today simply do not marry women because society no longer expects/forces them to. Which suggests there was either a hell of a lot more bi men in the past (going by your view) or that those men were not bi in the first place.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

That's just your opinion, though. You are going of nothing but your own opinion here. Which is fine, but in your previous post you suggest it was a fact.

Didge wrote:I am rationalizing that it has to be a fact, based on evidence and the fact these men or women as the case maybe, have been sexually aroused by the opposite sex.

I know many gay men, and none of them would ever say have been aroused by a woman. I also have my own experience. This is all far beyond opinion.

Didge wrote:Using the opinions of people is irrelevant, espcially when these very same people. If involved in sexually relationships with women. Are to me in denial, that they are in reality bisexual

Men can arouse themselves when they masturbate.
Men can think of other things when having sex with someone they are not attracted to.

Didge wrote:Maintaining an erection during sex with a woman, is a completely different ball park and again you do not want to even contemplate this reality here(I see you do admit to this later)

There are two statements that are ironclad facts. They are the only facts either of us have presented in this discussion.

Didge wrote:I disagree. As seen, its one thing to jerk off imaginging a sexual fanatasy. Its completely a different aspect altogether to date, have sex with someone, for them to agree to marry them

To concede 1 point to you, I am sure that SOME men who married women, were attracted to them despite being more attracted to men. Those people ARE bisexual.
But there is NO evidence that that is the majority of gay men who ever married a woman.

Didge wrote:So you do agree, but only have issue, with the numbers with me

And to reiterate, most gay men today simply do not marry women because society no longer expects/forces them to. Which suggests there was either a hell of a lot more bi men in the past (going by your view) or that those men were not bi in the first place.

Well as sen 20% of men, that state they are gay are in hetrosexual marriages. That is even today.

I truly think that and I will be conservative here. That at least 25% of gay people, are in reality bisexual, but with a massive preference towards their own sex.

So that is conceeding on the numbers with you mate.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

Well as sen 20% of men, that state they are gay are in hetrosexual marriages. That is even today.

I truly think that and I will be conservative here. That at least 25% of gay people, are in reality bisexual, but with a massive preference towards their own sex.

So that is conceeding on the numbers with you mate.

Conceding on numbers based on what? Your opinion? Your intricate knowledge of the hormonal responses gay men have? It's all conjecture so far.

Again, you only 'think' those men were aroused by the opposite sex, based on your own line of thinking and from no testimony from those men whatsoever. Even if you did hear it, I imagine you'd just declare them in denial, because it doesn't fit your own thoughts on the matter...

I have issue because you are plucking numbers out of thin air. You aren't taking into account a society and culture that compelled or compels some gay men to do what they think they 'should do'. You are completely disregarding my own encounter, despite the fact it is far more than anything you have offered on this subject.

In this debate, you've said 'to me' a lot of times. Which shows exactly how much opinion is involved here. Telling people they are indenial 'to you' is pretty weak reasoning, let's be honest.

Eilzel wrote:I don't like it when people assume to know someone's sexuality better than they do; while I know it is not your intent, there are many who have done the same thing when telling gay people 'it's a choice' or 'it's a phase'.

You continually dismiss the idea that people can get aroused by other means, so I won't press that issue.

You have also changed your statement significantly from 'the majority are probably bi' to '25%', which is far from most

Also, if you follow that link to where those percentages originally came from, it doesn't give the actual results or how they came by them. I am, naturally, very skeptical.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I don't like it when people assume to know someone's sexuality better than they do; while I know it is not your intent, there are many who have done the same thing when telling gay people 'it's a choice' or 'it's a phase'.

You continually dismiss the idea that people can get aroused by other means, so I won't press that issue.

You have also changed your statement significantly from 'the majority are probably bi' to '25%', which is far from most

Also, if you follow that link to where those percentages originally came from, it doesn't give the actual results or how they came by them. I am, naturally, very skeptical.

Actually mate, its you simple dismissing the fact they are living in long term relationships, day in day out. Like I said, such a view, takes the view, these women would have to be really stupid. To claim its being faked, the sexual arousal they share with their husbands and previously as boyfriends. I certainly as a man understand what turns me on and what does not.  I mean are you seriously telling me, they would agree to marry someone, being as women are very much emtionally tuned better than men and would know, if someone was into them or not? As like I say its clear these men are and were sexually attracted to them. Yet like I say, have a massive preference sexually towards other men.

Now I have no issue if they want to state they are gay, They have every right to do so. I though can see this differently and what would be interesting is if this was actually studied?

What do you reckon. It could help answer this for the both of us?

Well maybe you should have researched further on those links

Its still a huge proportion

Its fine to be skeptical, hence my view to be skpetical of some men classing themselves as gay. When it seems very clear to me they are bisexual

So I am happy to stick with about 25%

When it comes to sexuality, there’s never been a more exciting time to be alive. Straight, gay, pansexual, asexual, transsexual, hetero-flexible, bisexual; the endless list of sexual identities surely indicates society is heading in an ever-more inclusive direction, right? Perhaps we’re finally moving towards a time where people are less afraid to live a life that reflects who they really are.


Yet there are still some social barriers that refuse to budge - especially for those people who aren't entirely sure of their own sexuality.


Sexuality is often described as a spectrum; some people identify as entirely straight and others as entirely gay. However many people lie somewhere in that sizeable grey area between the two, and it seems that more young people than ever are realising they are in that number: not identifying as bisexual, nor identifying as 100% hetero either. In a recent study, when asked to place themselves on a ‘sexuality scale’, of the 18 to 24 year olds participating, 1 in 2 chose something other than 100% heterosexual. This figure contrasted vastly from the rest of the general UK population, of which 72% identify as exclusively heterosexual. In short, this study would suggest young people are feeling less and less straight.


Another study looked at same-sex experiences in Americans between 1990 and 2014. It not only found that people’s acceptance of same-sex relationships had quadrupled during this time, but also that same-sex sexual activity had roughly doubled - for women and men. By the time of the last survey, 7.5% of men aged between 18 to 29 reported a gay sexual experience and 12.2% of women in the same age bracket reported a lesbian experience.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/3e75b380-f622-4345-a383-4f948fc1013c

nicko wrote:Eilzel,  Imay have missed your reply on this, but have you ever had intercourse with a Woman ?

Didge wrote:You may find this very interesting Eilzel.

When it comes to sexuality, there’s never been a more exciting time to be alive. Straight, gay, pansexual, asexual, transsexual, hetero-flexible, bisexual; the endless list of sexual identities surely indicates society is heading in an ever-more inclusive direction, right? Perhaps we’re finally moving towards a time where people are less afraid to live a life that reflects who they really are.


Yet there are still some social barriers that refuse to budge - especially for those people who aren't entirely sure of their own sexuality.


Sexuality is often described as a spectrum; some people identify as entirely straight and others as entirely gay. However many people lie somewhere in that sizeable grey area between the two, and it seems that more young people than ever are realising they are in that number: not identifying as bisexual, nor identifying as 100% hetero either. In a recent study, when asked to place themselves on a ‘sexuality scale’, of the 18 to 24 year olds participating, 1 in 2 chose something other than 100% heterosexual. This figure contrasted vastly from the rest of the general UK population, of which 72% identify as exclusively heterosexual. In short, this study would suggest young people are feeling less and less straight.


Another study looked at same-sex experiences in Americans between 1990 and 2014. It not only found that people’s acceptance of same-sex relationships had quadrupled during this time, but also that same-sex sexual activity had roughly doubled - for women and men. By the time of the last survey, 7.5% of men aged between 18 to 29 reported a gay sexual experience and 12.2% of women in the same age bracket reported a lesbian experience.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/3e75b380-f622-4345-a383-4f948fc1013c

I think that backs up a hell of a lot of what I have been saying mate  

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:You may find this very interesting Eilzel.



I think that backs up a hell of a lot of what I have been saying mate  

It doesn't though. I've never denied a spectrum of sexuality here. My opening post stated this:

Most people identify as 100% straight.
A large minority identify as 100% gay.
Everyone else is different degrees of bi - some preferring one over the other to greater or lesser degrees.

That wasn't what our discussion was about; which was were gay men who married women really bi.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:You may find this very interesting Eilzel.



I think that backs up a hell of a lot of what I have been saying mate  

It doesn't though. I've never denied a spectrum of sexuality here. My opening post stated this:

Most people identify as 100% straight.
A large minority identify as 100% gay.
Everyone else is different degrees of bi - some preferring one over the other to greater or lesser degrees.

That wasn't what our discussion was about; which was were gay men who married women really bi.

Behave, now you are backtracking



Its very clear that a proportion of men who class themselves as gay have been attracted to women. The above shows this even more so. Where you were trying to claim they constantly faked this day in and day out. To me that is bullshit mate and that they clearly were sexually attracted to their wives. Where again and like I say, they simple and heavily prefer sex with the same sex