Should your fiancé ask your father for permission to propose? Outraged women slam the 'sexist' and 'outdated' tradition - but others claim the gesture is a sign of respect

[*]Traditionally, a man must ask a woman's father for permission before proposing 

[*]Outraged Mumsnet users claim the 'sexist' tradition is now outdated 

[*]However others admitted they found it a 'sweet and respectful' gesture


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5228713/Should-ask-fathers-hand-marriage.html#ixzz53Qtg12LC 
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I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months. Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

I see no issue with this.

Cant seem to see what the fuss is by some, kicking up a fuss.

More liberals wanting to destroy traditional values

This is precisely why they end up drinking sewer water

Mr.C didn’t ask permission but when he proposed, he called both of my parents and talked first. They weren’t expecting to be asked and that was back in 1989.

And I most certainly did NOT promise to obey. I do have to remind him of that still now and again after nearly 28 years  

2 years ago senior junior told us and his new in-laws by a group text since we don’t live near them, that he was going to ask his now wife to marry him. He then arranged for us to be outside where he proposed to her (at the shop where he saw her for the first time). A nice modern touch. We all felt involved and it was beautiful.

Cass wrote:Mr.C didn’t ask permission but when he proposed, he called both of my parents and talked first. They weren’t expecting to be asked and that was back in 1989.

And I most certainly did NOT promise to obey. I do have to remind him of that still now and again after nearly 28 years  

2 years ago senior junior told us and his new in-laws by a group text since we don’t live near them, that he was going to ask his now wife to marry him. He then arranged for us to be outside where he proposed to her (at the shop where he saw her for the first time). A nice modern touch. We all felt involved and it was beautiful.

I think Mr. C is up to date. The origins of asking are that a woman is property. Along with dowries, it was a bargained-for exchange that today would be offensive, if taken seriously.

You can say it's just tradition. But at least if it actually offends a woman, her opinion should be respected.

Original Quill wrote:

Cass wrote:Mr.C didn’t ask permission but when he proposed, he called both of my parents and talked first. They weren’t expecting to be asked and that was back in 1989.

And I most certainly did NOT promise to obey. I do have to remind him of that still now and again after nearly 28 years  

2 years ago senior junior told us and his new in-laws by a group text since we don’t live near them, that he was going to ask his now wife to marry him. He then arranged for us to be outside where he proposed to her (at the shop where he saw her for the first time). A nice modern touch. We all felt involved and it was beautiful.

I think Mr. C is up to date.  The origins of asking are that a woman is property.  Along with dowries, it was a bargained-for exchange that today would be offensive, if taken seriously.

You can say it's just tradition.  But at least if it actually offends a woman, her opinion should be respected.

How is it going to offend a woman?

Its just a tradition, to say it offends, shows how absurd people have become.

Its simple asking permission from the father through a tradition.

If anyone feels offended at that, then there is something wrong with her.

Its harmless

Didge wrote:How is it going to offend a woman?

Repetitive argument.  I've already explained...she might be offended because the origins of the tradition are that she is property.

Some women are sensitive about that kind of thing these days.  It's useless to judge a judgment.  If she feels that way in this important time, let her have her way.

Or, would you rather ruin the experience for her?

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:How is it going to offend a woman?

Repetitive argument.  I've already explained...she might be offended because the origins of the tradition are that she is property.

Some women are sensitive about that kind of thing these days.  It's useless to judge a judgment.  If she feels that way in this important time, let her have her way.

Or, would you rather ruin the experience for her?

This is the man that wont lift a finger for the oppressed women of the world, outside California.

There was no repetitive argument, yours was just plain horseshit. Going off dowries, when they no longer exist with western people. Hence the absurd view points you make. It means she is living in the past of past wrongs, when this is harmless. Its simple showing some respect to both her and the father.

Its harmless you dummy

If she feels offended, then she does so by her own stupidity. As again its simple a tradition, that does not effect her in anyway.

The point you glowingly miss

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

In response to OP, I think it's fine for a parent to be asked and equally fine not to. It it no more or less respectful either way. Since nobody expects to be told no, it is also rather pointless.

I like what Cass's son did, a modern touch that involves everyone, not just fathers and son-in-laws

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

Boring, not everything is about homosexuality

Didge wrote:There was no repetitive argument, yours was just plain horseshit. Going off dowries, when they no longer exist with western people. Hence the absurd view points you make. It means she is living in the past of past wrongs, when this is harmless. Its simple showing some respect to both her and the father.

Once again, you totally miss the point and go down a rabbit hole on a stray issue.  The only issue is the feeling of your bride.  If she wants to involve her father or the tradition, she can.  However, if she objects, it's her call.

Out of curiosity, how many marriages have you been through?  You sound like an ignorant, insensitive misogynist!

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:There was no repetitive argument, yours was just plain horseshit. Going off dowries, when they no longer exist with western people. Hence the absurd view points you make. It means she is living in the past of past wrongs, when this is harmless. Its simple showing some respect to both her and the father.

Once again, you totally miss the point and go down a rabbit hole on a stray issue.  The only issue is the feeling of your bride.  If she wants to involve her father or the tradition, she can.  However, if she objects, it's her call.

Out of curiosity, how many marriages have you been through?  You sound like an ignorant, insensitive misogynist!

The feelings of the bride?

Why should she have any bad feelings over this, when this is out of respect for her?

Again, its because of people drumming in absurd views, this is offensive, when its not. In other words, she would create this feeling herself and nobody else.

I never said she could not object and neither can she decide whether the husband to wants to ask her father. She would be a very pathetic individual, if she called off the wedding over this.

Then you end calling me misogynistic?

How pathetic

What a twat you are, at least I want to help women oppressed in the world, whilst you cower behind imaginary borders. You would rather see women oppressed around the world and called me that, when you have lost the argument.

This is why I do not respect attention seekers like you, that invent a load of bullshit claiming you have been a judge and where you have been to study.  

You simply are full of shit and yearn recognition of people

You will never have respect from me.

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

In response to OP, I think it's fine for a parent to be asked and equally fine not to. It it no more or less respectful either way. Since nobody expects to be told no, it is also rather pointless.

I like what Cass's son did, a modern touch that involves everyone, not just fathers and son-in-laws

Very good point!

I think it’s up to each individual couple. After all, it’s about celebrating them!

It was neat. I was allowed to advise on the engagement ring. When they came out afterwards there were 10 of us waiting, including my mum. She was already crying then we all pretty much started. Thanks to technology, another modern touch, we had my other son, my dad/stepmom, my sister and her grandparents and other sister all in FaceTime with us on various phones. How awesome that everyone was included.

That night we went out for bigass steaks and margaritas as a new bigger family.

I feel terrified for this harridans soon to be abused, henpicked and brown beaten husband.

Unless of course he is a pussy hat soy boy in which case he is probably comfortable with being a cuckold

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

In response to OP, I think it's fine for a parent to be asked and equally fine not to. It it no more or less respectful either way. Since nobody expects to be told no, it is also rather pointless.

I like what Cass's son did, a modern touch that involves everyone, not just fathers and son-in-laws

I think you missed the point. I was making a distinction between being a male and a man. An adult and a child. Noe both of my future son in laws told me they were going to ask my daughters and wanted my blessing.

It's a formality that shows some respect to the girls father. They both knew I would say yes.

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

In response to OP, I think it's fine for a parent to be asked and equally fine not to. It it no more or less respectful either way. Since nobody expects to be told no, it is also rather pointless.

I like what Cass's son did, a modern touch that involves everyone, not just fathers and son-in-laws

I think you missed the point.  I was making a distinction between being a male and a man.  An adult and a child.  Noe both of my future son in laws told me they were going to ask my daughters and wanted my blessing.

It's a formality that shows some respect to the girls father.  They both knew I would say yes.  

And that’s great for your situation. Glad it happened how you wanted it to happen. But I think Elizel’s point is valid.

And more importantly, What if they supported the horns

Cass wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I think you missed the point.  I was making a distinction between being a male and a man.  An adult and a child.  Noe both of my future son in laws told me they were going to ask my daughters and wanted my blessing.

It's a formality that shows some respect to the girls father.  They both knew I would say yes.  

And that’s great for your situation. Glad it happened how you wanted it to happen. But I think Elizel’s point is valid.

And more importantly, What if they supported the horns

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.

Even one that favored burnt orange.

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:

And that’s great for your situation. Glad it happened how you wanted it to happen. But I think Elizel’s point is valid.

And more importantly, What if they supported the horns

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Cool.

Cass wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Cool.

We seem to be missing the point, though. Les has taken the position that, what if it is a same-sex partner? And that's a good point, in itself.

But the real objection of the women questioned is that it is sexist and arbitrary to assume that a father's permission is necessary. A wedding is a unique ceremony for a woman. It's her day. If, leading up to it, she wants dad's permission, or if it's an anachronistic, insulting institution, is for her to say. To try to intrude into the process something that she finds objectionable, is...well, you are working against her interests.

Original Quill wrote:

Cass wrote:

Cool.

We seem to be missing the point, though.  Les has taken the position that, what if it is a same-sex partner?  And that's a good point, in itself.

But the real objection of the women questioned is that it is sexist and arbitrary to assume that a father's permission is necessary.  A wedding is a unique ceremony for a woman.  It's her day.  If, leading up to it, she wants dad's permission, or if it's an anachronistic, insulting institution, is for her to say.  To try to intrude into the process something that she finds objectionable, is...well, you are working against her interests.

He literally said if a woman asked for his daughter...he got the point.

Cass wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

We seem to be missing the point, though.  Les has taken the position that, what if it is a same-sex partner?  And that's a good point, in itself.

But the real objection of the women questioned is that it is sexist and arbitrary to assume that a father's permission is necessary.  A wedding is a unique ceremony for a woman.  It's her day.  If, leading up to it, she wants dad's permission, or if it's an anachronistic, insulting institution, is for her to say.  To try to intrude into the process something that she finds objectionable, is...well, you are working against her interests.

He literally said if a woman asked for his daughter...he got the point.

He doesn't read what I wrote. It's a trait of his.

And it's not really asking permission but informing a father that he intends to pop the question. Weddings are mostly about tradition. White dresses, rings and dad's writing checks. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course I would.accept my daughters doing it however in the hell they like too. Now their mother.............

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:

He literally said if a woman asked for his daughter...he got the point.

He doesn't read what I wrote.  It's a trait of his.  

And it's not really asking permission but informing a father that he intends to pop the question. Weddings are mostly about tradition. White dresses, rings and dad's writing checks.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Of course I would.accept my daughters doing it however in the hell they like too.  Now their mother.............  

We paid for half. Traditions evolve over time which is good. We had a handfasting ceremony at the end of the wedding ceremony. It’s not legal anymore but we included it because of tradition but you wouldn’t. It’s down to personal preference.

Our great-grandkids will probably do things that we can’t even think or dream about.

Cass wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:I have had two daughters get engaged in the past 4 months.  Both men asked me because my daughter's are marrying men.  

So if your daughters had been marrying women, you wouldn't have expected to be asked? Why should a man?

In response to OP, I think it's fine for a parent to be asked and equally fine not to. It it no more or less respectful either way. Since nobody expects to be told no, it is also rather pointless.

I like what Cass's son did, a modern touch that involves everyone, not just fathers and son-in-laws

Very good point!

I think it’s up to each individual couple. After all, it’s about celebrating them!

It was neat. I was allowed to advise on the engagement ring. When they came out afterwards there were 10 of us waiting, including my mum.  She was already crying then we all pretty much started. Thanks to technology, another modern touch, we had my other son, my dad/stepmom, my sister and her grandparents and other sister all in FaceTime with us on various phones. How awesome that everyone was included.

That night we went out for bigass steaks and margaritas as a new bigger family.  

Lovely story

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I think you missed the point.  I was making a distinction between being a male and a man.  An adult and a child.  Noe both of my future son in laws told me they were going to ask my daughters and wanted my blessing.

It's a formality that shows some respect to the girls father.  They both knew I would say yes.  

And that’s great for your situation. Glad it happened how you wanted it to happen. But I think Elizel’s point is valid.

And more importantly, What if they supported the horns

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:

He literally said if a woman asked for his daughter...he got the point.

He doesn't read what I wrote.  It's a trait of his.  

And it's not really asking permission but informing a father that he intends to pop the question. Weddings are mostly about tradition. White dresses, rings and dad's writing checks.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Of course I would.accept my daughters doing it however in the hell they like too.  Now their mother.............  

There seems to be a lot of sloppy clerks here.  Cass, I know what Les was saying; I only said that his comment misdirected from the complaints of the complaining women. I totally agree with Les' point, but state only that it is a point aside.

Baddog, it was originally traditional to ask for permission to obtain the woman as property.  Nothing wrong with that??? There is a big difference between adhering to the idea behind it, and adhering to the tradition (while rejecting its philosophy).

Both of you are avoiding the point.  In the modern day, it is the woman who decides her own fate.  She is an independent person today, who is entitled to decide for herself what she wants.

If she decides to allow for her father to be asked, she is not bowing to her status as property, but her love of tradition.  It's her decision to make.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

He doesn't read what I wrote.  It's a trait of his.  

And it's not really asking permission but informing a father that he intends to pop the question. Weddings are mostly about tradition. White dresses, rings and dad's writing checks.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Of course I would.accept my daughters doing it however in the hell they like too.  Now their mother.............  

There seems to be a lot of sloppy clerks here.  Cass, I know what Les was saying; I only said that his comment misdirected from the complaints of the complaining women.

Baddog, it was originally traditional to ask for permission to obtain the woman as property.  Nothing wrong with that???

Both of you are avoiding the point.  In the modern day it is the woman who decides her own fate.  She is an independent person who is entitled to decide for herself what she wants.

If she decides to allow for her father to be asked, she is not bowing to her status as property, but her love of tradition.  It's her decision to make.

I’m not avoiding anything. I’ve stated quite clearly that it’s up to the couple themselves as to if they follow tradition or do something different. Maddog answered Elizels’s point from his point of view.

My answer is I don’t care if they ask me or their father either way, we don’t expect it and are not bothered. If my children were gay I would feel the same.


This is going around in circles...again.

Eilzel wrote:

Cass wrote:

Very good point!

I think it’s up to each individual couple. After all, it’s about celebrating them!

It was neat. I was allowed to advise on the engagement ring. When they came out afterwards there were 10 of us waiting, including my mum.  She was already crying then we all pretty much started. Thanks to technology, another modern touch, we had my other son, my dad/stepmom, my sister and her grandparents and other sister all in FaceTime with us on various phones. How awesome that everyone was included.

That night we went out for bigass steaks and margaritas as a new bigger family.  

Lovely story

Thank you. I know yours was just as special and unique x

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

Do you need to go to specsavers?

Maddog wrote:

Of course I would accept my daughters doing it however in the hell they like too.  

My husband to be asked my mum(no dad around) it was just a sign of respect.

I don't see what the fuss is about really....if the bride to be has a caring dad why shouldn't he be asked for permission?

Its just a tradition, its not as if he is trading her in for a couple of camels.

smelly-bandit wrote:I feel terrified for this harridans soon to be abused, henpicked and brown beaten husband.

Unless of course he is a pussy hat soy boy in which case he is probably comfortable with being a cuckold

You old romantic you!

Syl wrote:My husband to be asked my mum(no dad around) it was just a sign of respect.

I don't see what the fuss is about really....if the bride to be has a caring dad why shouldn't he be asked for permission?

Its just a tradition, its not as if he is trading her in for a couple of camels.  

I think the main point is people should be able to do what they like. I do see how some could view it as dated and a sign of less equal times, I also see it as a tradition some see as sweet. The women aren't wrong in their objections though, are they?

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:My husband to be asked my mum(no dad around) it was just a sign of respect.

I don't see what the fuss is about really....if the bride to be has a caring dad why shouldn't he be asked for permission?

Its just a tradition, its not as if he is trading her in for a couple of camels.  

I think the main point is people should be able to do what they like. I do see how some could view it as dated and a sign of less equal times, I also see it as a tradition some see as sweet. The women aren't wrong in their objections though, are they?

The question to ask, is why have some been brainwashed to believe its wrong in the first place?

When its harmless.

Why do you not ask yourself that, where yet again, some seem to take offense over anything

Maybe also others can explain to me why constantly women keep to the tradition of not seeing the groom before the wedding?

That is actually born from a time of arranged marriages. Where women did not even get to know or see their persective husband and i dont see the same women kicking a fuss up over that. Hence the absurdity of how some women act. They are happy to keep a tradition born from arranged marriages, but not one where the man asks the father for her hand.

Hence the hypocrisy

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

your just looking for an argument aren't you ?

I know exactly what he meant and it had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality - it you that has brought this into it .

Also, do any consider the origins of throwing the bouquet or garter?

You see how absurd some women have become, because they take only what they see wrong in the past and actually be the ones maintaining a sexist view themselves. When it certaintly does not exist in western marriages today.

I proposed to my hubby and i didn't ask permission from anyone

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

your just looking for an argument aren't you ?

I know exactly what he meant and it had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality - it you that has brought this into it .

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I think the main point is people should be able to do what they like. I do see how some could view it as dated and a sign of less equal times, I also see it as a tradition some see as sweet. The women aren't wrong in their objections though, are they?

The question to ask, is why have some been brainwashed to believe its wrong in the first place?

When its harmless.

Why do you not ask yourself that, where yet again, some seem to take offense over anything

I think its a lovely gesture and my personal view is that my dad brought me up and protected me and it made him feel very honoured when my hubby asked my dad if he could marry his daughter . It made me feel very special too I wasn't offended one bit .

I think the tradition of not seeing the bride before the wedding day is about bad luck so I've always believed .

Have you got any daughters didge ? if you do would you be offended if their future husbands asked you if they could marry them ?

Didge wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

your just looking for an argument aren't you ?

I know exactly what he meant and it had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality - it you that has brought this into it .

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Didge wrote:

The question to ask, is why have some been brainwashed to believe its wrong in the first place?

When its harmless.

Why do you not ask yourself that, where yet again, some seem to take offense over anything

I think its a lovely gesture and my personal view is that my dad brought me up and protected me and it made him feel very honoured when my hubby asked my dad if he could marry his daughter . It made me feel very special too I wasn't offended one bit .

I think the tradition of not seeing the bride before the wedding day is about bad luck so I've always believed .

Have you got any daughters didge ? if you do would you be offended if their future husbands asked you if they could marry them ?

The tradation comes from arranged marriages, where the bride and groom, only got to see each other on the wedding day. As it was all about money and property provided over that marriage.

It is seen as bad luck, but is basically meaningless in western marriages.

Sadly in places in the East, its still a problem, but again, I do not see western brides up in arms over this when they carry on this tradition of not seeing the groom

Miffs2 wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:I feel terrified for this harridans soon to be abused, henpicked and brown beaten husband.

Unless of course he is a pussy hat soy boy in which case he is probably comfortable with being a cuckold

You old romantic you!

I like your sense of humour and quick wittidness - makes me laugh a lot

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I would expect a woman asking my daughter to show the same respect towards me as man.  

Even one that favored burnt orange.  

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

Same respect as man would.show me. The man I was referring to was the fiance, not me. You are looking to be a victim.

I guess they could have asked the other sister first. It would be a little odd, why not.

I think part of the reason that my SILs informed me prior to the big question is because I have a very good relationship with my daughters and them. I also have a good relationship with their mother.  TBH, my ex and her new husband knew about the ring and all a few hours before I did, although I don't know if he asked about their blessing.  My oldest is actually my step daughter. Her fiance asked me, her bio dad and even  her mom's new husband.  I'm surprised he didn't ask the mayor and governor for their blessing too.  

Now as I think about my GF who is the product of an arranged marriage who has a daughter with a mostly absent father, I think possible suitors would be wise to go through her and leave the absent father out of the equation.

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:My husband to be asked my mum(no dad around) it was just a sign of respect.

I don't see what the fuss is about really....if the bride to be has a caring dad why shouldn't he be asked for permission?

Its just a tradition, its not as if he is trading her in for a couple of camels.  

I think the main point is people should be able to do what they like. I do see how some could view it as dated and a sign of less equal times, I also see it as a tradition some see as sweet. The women aren't wrong in their objections though, are they?

No they are not wrong, it only becomes wrong if they try to brow beat others that their way is right and the other persons view is wrong.

Its not compulsory, its just a tradition...and some traditions are nice to hang onto.

What if your father is dead, like mine?

Didge wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Respect you as a man?

What if they'd asked the mother instead, would that be ok?

your just looking for an argument aren't you ?

I know exactly what he meant and it had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality - it you that has brought this into it .

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

What has asking the mother instead of the father got to do with homosexuality? My first question was about homosexuality, and I asked be cause of the wording of dog's answer. The second question has nothing to do with homosexuality, but attitudes toward men and women.

^Maddog, how am I trying to be victim by asking if it would be ok to ask a mother instead of a father? It does not affect me either way.

I was inquiring since 'respect me as a man' was a strange turn of phrase imo.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

What has asking the mother instead of the father got to do with homosexuality? My first question was about homosexuality, and I asked be cause of the wording of dog's answer. The second question has nothing to do with homosexuality, but attitudes toward men and women.

^Maddog, how am I trying to be victim by asking if it would be ok to ask a mother instead of a father? It does not affect me either way.

I was inquiring since 'respect me as a man' was a strange turn of phrase imo.

You misunderstood me. I meant "show me the same respect that a man would".

I would expect a woman proposing to my daughter to show me the same respect as a man would show me.

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

What has asking the mother instead of the father got to do with homosexuality? My first question was about homosexuality, and I asked be cause of the wording of dog's answer. The second question has nothing to do with homosexuality, but attitudes toward men and women.

^Maddog, how am I trying to be victim by asking if it would be ok to ask a mother instead of a father? It does not affect me either way.

I was inquiring since 'respect me as a man' was a strange turn of phrase imo.

You misunderstood me. I meant "show me the same respect that a man would".

I would expect a woman proposing to my daughter to show me the same respect as a man would show me.  

Fair play, my mistake

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

I completely agree

Maddog, was just saying that his daughters had asked him and its as if Eilzel is bring his own form of Homosexual inquistition onto him over an alternative situation.

Hence I found his attack here poor

Maddog was very clear, he was not bothered either way and would be happy for what his daughters choose.

I back the equality of Homosexuals, but this seems a poor laid view to get at Maddog, as if Eilzel was trying to expose him as homophobic or something.

It was pathetic

What has asking the mother instead of the father got to do with homosexuality? My first question was about homosexuality, and I asked be cause of the wording of dog's answer. The second question has nothing to do with homosexuality, but attitudes toward men and women.

^Maddog, how am I trying to be victim by asking if it would be ok to ask a mother instead of a father? It does not affect me either way.

I was inquiring since 'respect me as a man' was a strange turn of phrase imo.

Indeed it was, as if you were trying to goad Maddog, as if he was a homophobe

You made it personal about what he would do. When he made it very clear, he would be happy what ever he daughters decided. You then followed this up, with a view on sexism, again personally, as if he would mind over them asking a woman.

To me it was pathetic and not needed

You dont have to champion gay rights by constantly badgering people.

I myself mistook maddog as racist at first and admit to being wrong over a debate with Lincoln. More as I was annoyed at his historical errors, but I am happy to admit I was in the wrong for accusing him.

The point is, you did make this about homosexuality. When the point was this was harmless, no matter who asks what ever parent. It has become just a tradition