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The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:21 am
Arab anti-Trump Jerusalem protests | Iranian anti-government protests |
| Organized top-down by Palestinian leaders | Organized bottom up by individuals |
| Anti-America and Israel | Anti-Ayatollah |
| Predicted to set the Middle East on fire by experts. They were wrong. | Not predicted by experts at all. |
| Meaningless, could never accomplish anything. US and Israel wouldn't back down. | A very big deal, even if violently put down it puts the mullahs on notice |
| Wall to wall media coverage hoping to find some violence that would justify the predictions | Media ignoring it (or, worse, covering pro-regime puppet rallies as legit) |
The sad part is that since the "experts" and media were so invested in the Iranian deal and in supporting the regime at the expense of the majority of Arabs and Israel, they cannot now support a real grass-roots uprising against tyranny.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-differences-between-jerusalem.html
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:36 pm
It's a good theory, but where is the support for the modalities (cells) in your matrix? For example, how does article determine 'top-down' and 'top-up' origins for each movement?
Anyway, to my thinking these are petty squabbles. The real impact of the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, is it takes the US out of the role of peacemaker. But as Netanyahu has indicated, he doesn't want two states anyway.
Anyway, to my thinking these are petty squabbles. The real impact of the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, is it takes the US out of the role of peacemaker. But as Netanyahu has indicated, he doesn't want two states anyway.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:12 am
Original Quill wrote:It's a good theory, but where is the support for the modalities (cells) in your matrix? For example, how does article determine 'top-down' and 'top-up' origins for each movement?
Anyway, to my thinking these are petty squabbles. The real impact of the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, is it takes the US out of the role of peacemaker. But as Netanyahu has indicated, he doesn't want two states anyway.
There is no theory here, but fact.
The western media were falling over themselves. After Trump's recognition of Jerusalem, as the rightful capital of Israel. The chart provides with a very good, idiots guide. To understand this. Where western media, predicted, an almighty back lash from Trump's announcement.
They were wrong. As the protests wee miniscule.
Now we see the people olf Iran, standing up against oppression, to bring about change.
The western media, failed to predict that also.
But where is the voices, out in the public and media, championing the protesters in Iran. Having basic hnuman rights?
Those who claim it takes the US out of the equation. As a peace negotitator. Seriously, has no idea what they are talking about. As the Palestinian authority knows and is bound by the Oslo accord. Which if nullified. Would render the Palestinan authority authority and semi autonomy nulified and they would be back to actual occupation?
The Palestinians very much need to US, to be part of the peace process. Also, the Palestinian Authoirty, knows and understands, Israel has a declared policy. Which only allows the US, as a neutral, as a peace broker.
Hence your points were poor and rather stupid. If the Palestinian authority. Denies the US providing an anvenue for peace. They would be openly admitting refusing any peace process.
So where is all the marches in the US?
We saw Trump came to power and based on his prejudice polices.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:47 am
Didge wrote:The Palestinians very much need to US, to be part of the peace process. Also, the Palestinian Authoirty, knows and understands, Israel has a declared policy. Which only allows the US, as a neutral, as a peace broker.
There is no peace process since the US has shown it is not a neutral. The only one who could broker a peace was the US, and the US has abandoned the effort.
If there is no peace process, live with the situation as it is. Perpetual war.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:55 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:The Palestinians very much need to US, to be part of the peace process. Also, the Palestinian Authoirty, knows and understands, Israel has a declared policy. Which only allows the US, as a neutral, as a peace broker.
There is no peace process since the US has shown it is not a neutral. The only one who could broker a peace was the US, and the US has abandoned the effort.
If there is no peace process, live with the situation as it is. Perpetual war.
Not neutral?
By allowing the door open, to also Jersualem being the Capital of a future Palestian state?
So you are saying the US, should continue to pander to toddler tantrums?
You see the reality is with people like you Quill. Is your whole stand towards Israel. Its not about peace.
So could you even begin to understand what it takes to have peace between them?
No
As you constantlt ignore, the fact of Islamic doctrine, that when believed literally. Has always ensured war perpetually.
One wonders what you do actually understand about wars.
So yet again, you want to avoide a war, that is already upon you and have been for decades.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:58 am
Didge wrote:Original Quill wrote:
There is no peace process since the US has shown it is not a neutral. The only one who could broker a peace was the US, and the US has abandoned the effort.
If there is no peace process, live with the situation as it is. Perpetual war.
Not neutral?
By allowing the door open, to also Jersualem being the Capital of a future Palestian state?
So you are saying the US, should continue to pander to toddler tantrums?
You see the reality is with people like you Quill. Is your whole stand towards Israel. Its not about peace.
So could you even begin to understand what it takes to have peace between them?
No
As you constantlt ignore, the fact of Islamic doctrine, that when believed literally. Has always ensured war perpetually.
One wonders what you do actually understand about wars.
So yet again, you want to avoide a war, that is already upon you and have been for decades.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution. Without a two state solution, there is no peace. It's futile...
It's not our problem.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:04 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:
Not neutral?
By allowing the door open, to also Jersualem being the Capital of a future Palestian state?
So you are saying the US, should continue to pander to toddler tantrums?
You see the reality is with people like you Quill. Is your whole stand towards Israel. Its not about peace.
So could you even begin to understand what it takes to have peace between them?
No
As you constantlt ignore, the fact of Islamic doctrine, that when believed literally. Has always ensured war perpetually.
One wonders what you do actually understand about wars.
So yet again, you want to avoide a war, that is already upon you and have been for decades.
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution. Without a two state solution, there is no peace. It's futile...
It's not our problem.
Well, as much as you continue to lie and claim one individual, Netanyahu. To you does not want peace. Will have me once again shatter your illusions. The last peace talks. Offer peace. Just as countless Israeli' leaders have doen and obtained. With other Arab nations.
The world now functions, as global enteprise.
Hence war, politically and religiously. War has come to you
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:11 am
Didge wrote:Original Quill wrote:
Netanyahu does not want a two state solution. Without a two state solution, there is no peace. It's futile...
It's not our problem.
Well, as much as you continue to lie and claim one individual, Netanyahu. To you does not want peace. Will have me once again shatter your illusions. The last peace talks. Offer peace. Just as countless Israeli' leaders have doen and obtained. With other Arab nations.
The world now functions, as global enteprise.
Hence war, politically and religiously. War has come to you
It's not over here. It's over there. It's not our problem.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:23 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:
Well, as much as you continue to lie and claim one individual, Netanyahu. To you does not want peace. Will have me once again shatter your illusions. The last peace talks. Offer peace. Just as countless Israeli' leaders have doen and obtained. With other Arab nations.
The world now functions, as global enteprise.
Hence war, politically and religiously. War has come to you
It's not over here. It's over there. It's not our problem.
The whole world, in its entirey, is our collectivelly problem.
As the world functions, as a global entity.
Your only poor argument. To defend your unethical positions. Is to place into the argumnet. A declaration. One that automatically, renders your beliefs on war. Redundent.
As you have not based this on any reason around ethics, human rights etc.
What have you based this on?
Geography
An illusion. One of imagianry borders, you have created.
Hence why it denies you the ability. To have sight, to see. Many, have already take this for granted.
When you divide up and create divisions further
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:29 am
Didge wrote:There is no theory here, but fact.
The western media were falling over themselves. After Trump's recognition of Jerusalem, as the rightful capital of Israel. The chart provides with a very good, idiots guide.
I think you are right: It's an idiot's guide. If there is no substantiation for the matrix, it's just a heuristic whim. That's the discipline that I have mentioned you lack, didge.
I can't help but note that you are caught in this trap by the C&P habit. You fall for the authority of others so easily.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:37 am
Didge wrote:The whole world, in its entirey, is our collectivelly problem.
As the world functions, as a global entity.
Meh...it's a fine line between alleging the world is a global problem, and claiming a right to draw boundaries for everyone. That's not our problem.
Live and let live, I says.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:There is no theory here, but fact.
The western media were falling over themselves. After Trump's recognition of Jerusalem, as the rightful capital of Israel. The chart provides with a very good, idiots guide.
I think you are right: It's an idiot's guide. If there is no substantiation for the matrix, it's just a heuristic whim. That's the discipline that I have mentioned you lack, didge.
I can't help but note that you are caught in this trap by the C&P habit. You fall for the authority of others so easily.
What trap?
There is no trap.
You claim all babies killed in war, have died superior. To the deaths of all babies. As you place their pecking order, above other babies.
You rendered thier worth, basically meaningless. As you did not calculate of a human, a baby etc, their value collectivelly and single..
That we are all indeed priceless
When you champion the human rights of babies. This means you champion, all babies to succeed.
Hence problems, beyond the borders. Is a problem locally. That should be looked at seriously globally.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:02 am
Didge wrote:You claim all babies killed in war, have died superior. To the deaths of all babies. As you place their pecking order, above other babies.
You rendered thier worth, basically meaningless. As you did not calculate of a human, a baby etc, their value collectivelly and single..
Um...could ya think of a better reason not to be killing babies? I mean, here you are questioning the value of their babies versus our babies, and you don't have an answer. That's borderline gross.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:09 am
Original Quill wrote:Didge wrote:You claim all babies killed in war, have died superior. To the deaths of all babies. As you place their pecking order, above other babies.
You rendered thier worth, basically meaningless. As you did not calculate of a human, a baby etc, their value collectivelly and single..
Um...could ya think of a better reason not to be killing babies? I mean, here you are questioning the value of their babies versus our babies, and you don't have an answer. That's borderline gross.
I can think of many reasons, to help prevent babies dying.
The reality is, even during the Vietnam war. Plenty of civillians died, were wounded and capturted.
You though, as seen elevate babies above all others
Now I place all their lives as priceless.
You though, got exposed for using a retarded argument.
So its not me that questioned their value.
You automatically did, by place a much higher value on a hostage.
So again, what purpose and point did Quill ,have in regards babies killed in war?
Zero
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by nicko Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:38 am
Lawyer speak, do not answer a question that might prove I know nothing about the subject, instead just use a lot of waffle and long words to try and move the subject away from the original question of witch I don't really know much about !
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by 'Wolfie Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:27 pm
Zionist blogs have been claiming that the media are totally "ignoring" these Iranian protests...
Yet I have seen them reported in newspapers and on television down here in recent days..
Funny thing how those particular Zionist boosters are always pro-Netanyahu, pro-Trump and anti-Democrat/anti-Obama.
Partisan and biggotted ? Never !
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:22 pm
nicko wrote:Lawyer speak, do not answer a question that might prove I know nothing about the subject, instead just use a lot of waffle and long words to try and move the subject away from the original question of witch I don't really know much about !
I'd rather carry law books than a gun. As far as "the subject" is concerned, I know the middle east is none of our business.
If you can give us an explanation for Didge's matrix on protests, Iran vs. Israel, pls. help us out. The source article at the link provides nothing.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by nicko Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:42 pm
Your "waffling" again, as for me explaining, I'm just an ignorant grunt. I know nothing about the in's and out's of politics , but if you give me a gun, and the cause is just, i'd stand in front of you to protect your sorry arse !
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:50 pm
nicko wrote:Your "waffling" again, as for me explaining, I'm just an ignorant grunt. I know nothing about the in's and out's of politics , but if you give me a gun, and the cause is just, i'd stand in front of you to protect your sorry arse !
All of this talk, talk, talk, is unnecessary. I merely pointed out that the information and claims in the OP matrix are unsubstantiated. Just go look for yourself. My job is done.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:27 pm
Seth FrantzmanVerified accountWhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Zionist blogs have been claiming that the media are totally "ignoring" these Iranian protests...
Yet I have seen them reported in newspapers and on television down here in recent days..
Funny thing how those particular Zionist boosters are always pro-Netanyahu, pro-Trump and anti-Democrat/anti-Obama.
Partisan and biggotted ? Never !
[ltr]@sfrantzman[/ltr]
More
Four days of International edition of the NYT, not one story on #IranProtests on the front page. How is this possible? Today and yesterday's paper doesn't even have a story inside it that I can find @JSchanzer @LeeSmithDC @BenWeinthal
11:51 pm - 2 Jan 2018
https://twitter.com/sfrantzman/status/948461830187503618/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhonestreporting.com%2Fidns-us-cutting-aid-to-palestinians%2F
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by 'Wolfie Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:33 pm
I'm not in New York, Dodger -- nor do I read their Aussie editions...
Down here, stories ran in daily newspapers (the Fairrfax press; and Murdoch's News Limited newspapers..)
And stories were reported on the ABC, SBS and Nine networks, that I saw.
Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:34 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote::I'm not in New York, Dodger -- nor do I read their Aussie editions...
Down here, stories ran in daily newspapers (the Fairrfax press; and Murdoch's News Limited newspapers..)
And stories were reported on the ABC, SBS and Nine networks, that I saw..
Good to see that is happenning in Australia.
There is a reason people are calling out the New York Times here.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by 'Wolfie Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:54 pm
While I was just looking online, I found this report, if you haven't seen it already :
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/252332/why-cant-the-american-media-cover-the-protests-in-iran
Among the British, Aussie and international coverage of the Iran protests story, the only US sources that I saw were CNN and FauxNews..
Not that there is anything new in seeing so many US news services not covering international stories -- that situation has been building since the middle of the Vietnam War back in the 1960s.
My brother spent a few months in Maryland on the US East Coast back in the early 1980s, and when he returned he said that one significant difference in the news coverage over there was how few international, and even major national, news stories were covered by the American news services, and that their news reports were often packed out with heaps of lightweight local and gossip items to make up a "news" hour..
Apparently US citizens have to work harder to source real news -- and search wider -- compared to many other countries. Which would go someway to helping explain how Trump gained office, why 40% of Americans don't bother to vote, and why the likes of the NRA and FoxNews have such a disproportionate level of influence.
Especially when you combine that with their failing school education standards..
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Guest Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:58 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
While I was just looking online, I found this report, if you haven't seen it already :
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/252332/why-cant-the-american-media-cover-the-protests-in-iran
Among the British, Aussie and international coverage of the Iran protests story, the only US sources that I saw were CNN and FauxNews..
Not that there is anything new in seeing so many US news services not covering international stories -- that situation has been building since the middle of the Vietnam War back in the 1960s.
My brother spent a few months in Maryland on the US East Coast back in the early 1980s, and when he returned he said that one significant difference in the news coverage over there was how few international, and even major national, news stories were covered by the American news services, and that there news reports were packed out with heaps of lightweight local and gossip items to make up a "news" hour..
Apparently US citizens have to work harder to source real news -- and search wider -- compared to many other countries. Which would go someway to helping explain how Trump gained office, why 40% of Americans don't bother to vote, and why the likes of the NRA and FoxNews have such a disproportionate level of influence.
Especially when you combine that with their failing school education standards..
That is very interesting Wolf
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Original Quill Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:25 pm
Wolf wrote:My brother spent a few months in Maryland on the US East Coast back in the early 1980s, and when he returned he said that one significant difference in the news coverage over there was how few international, and even major national, news stories were covered by the American news services, and that their news reports were often packed out with heaps of lightweight local and gossip items to make up a "news" hour..
It is interesting. The absence of cosmopolitanism is a hallmark of Americana. I think it's due largely to the rural, populist character of the US...an environment that is rapidly disappearing.
New York and San Francisco--the two financial centers of the US, Atlantic and Pacific--are about the only two cities that pay attention.
Oh, and I've seen a lot of talk of the sort this thread centers around, in the San Francisco newspapers, but nowhere else. Oh...MSNBC, on the Rachael Maddow, discussed the differences between the last and present demonstrations in Iran.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Cass Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:28 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
While I was just looking online, I found this report, if you haven't seen it already :
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/252332/why-cant-the-american-media-cover-the-protests-in-iran
Among the British, Aussie and international coverage of the Iran protests story, the only US sources that I saw were CNN and FauxNews..
Not that there is anything new in seeing so many US news services not covering international stories -- that situation has been building since the middle of the Vietnam War back in the 1960s.
My brother spent a few months in Maryland on the US East Coast back in the early 1980s, and when he returned he said that one significant difference in the news coverage over there was how few international, and even major national, news stories were covered by the American news services, and that their news reports were often packed out with heaps of lightweight local and gossip items to make up a "news" hour..
Apparently US citizens have to work harder to source real news -- and search wider -- compared to many other countries. Which would go someway to helping explain how Trump gained office, why 40% of Americans don't bother to vote, and why the likes of the NRA and FoxNews have such a disproportionate level of influence.
Especially when you combine that with their failing school education standards..
Very true. What with constant commercial interruptions you get maybe 16-17 minutes of news in a 30 minute program and that’s not including the weather. It’s always goes local, county, regional, state, regional state, then national and then international unless it’s a major incident and/or a feel good clip added at the end.
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Re: The differences between the "Jerusalem embassy" demonstrations and the Iranian protests
by Maddog Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:25 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
While I was just looking online, I found this report, if you haven't seen it already :
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/252332/why-cant-the-american-media-cover-the-protests-in-iran
Among the British, Aussie and international coverage of the Iran protests story, the only US sources that I saw were CNN and FauxNews..
Not that there is anything new in seeing so many US news services not covering international stories -- that situation has been building since the middle of the Vietnam War back in the 1960s.
My brother spent a few months in Maryland on the US East Coast back in the early 1980s, and when he returned he said that one significant difference in the news coverage over there was how few international, and even major national, news stories were covered by the American news services, and that their news reports were often packed out with heaps of lightweight local and gossip items to make up a "news" hour..
Apparently US citizens have to work harder to source real news -- and search wider -- compared to many other countries. Which would go someway to helping explain how Trump gained office, why 40% of Americans don't bother to vote, and why the likes of the NRA and FoxNews have such a disproportionate level of influence.
Especially when you combine that with their failing school education standards..
In 1980, there would have ben a half hour of local news done by the local station and an hour done by the national news stations. The national news stations would have covered international news. I vividly remember news of Vietnam being on the national news as a child in the early 70's.
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