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Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’

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Post by eddie Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:27 pm

Although breeding animals is by no means anything new, there’s been a greater focus on breeding specific domestic animals for their appearance. The primary issue with this type of animal breeding is that, often times, these new “attractive features” come at the cost of the animal’s wellbeing, creating health problems.

Genetically modified dogs have gained a lot of attention lately, as more people are becoming aware of the additional health risks dogs face when breeders try to alter their characteristics.



UK equine expert Tim Greet stated:

“Actually this deformity is even more significant for a horse than for a dog. Dogs like man can mouth breathe, but horses can ONLY breathe through their nose. I suspect exercise would definitely be limited for this horse.”

Jonathan Pycock, an equine reproduction expert and president of the British Equine Veterinary Association, said:

I would imagine this horse could have respiratory problems – you would have to test it for sure – but you can’t say with any certainty that respiratory problems won’t develop. It would seem to have the potential to impact negatively on its health in terms of air intake.

The problem comes when you breed for particular looks and when those looks are detrimental to the horse’s health. In my book, that is fundamentally wrong. This is a worrying development.

Roly Owers, equine vet and chief executive of World Horse Welfare, said:

In a word this looks horrific. The foal in the video shows a markedly more dished nose even than its mother and has obviously been bred to achieve this. This appears to be breeding in a weakness that could severely affect future generations – and if there is not a restriction to the airway in this particular animal already then there will be in future generations. On first sight it is the airway restriction that is more concerning than the pronounced forehead – but this rather depends on how this develops as the foal grows.

Obviously Arabs have dished noses but this has been bred into the extreme. Quite disgusting!


Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ Img_8811

More on link including video: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/20/disturbing-photos-of-designer-horses-go-viral-shed-light-on-the-cruel-world-of-animal-breeding/
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Post by Victorismyhero Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:22 pm

shoot the breeders
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Post by Original Quill Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:41 pm

It's an Arab...small head, a dished face with wide eyes and arching neck...these are the hallmarks of the purebred Arabian. They are generally small bodied horses, but there isn't a full photograph.

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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 am

Original Quill wrote:It's an Arab...small head, a dished face with wide eyes and arching neck...these are the hallmarks of the purebred Arabian.  They are generally small bodied horses, but there isn't a full photograph.

This painting was done in 1810.   The Arab horse has always had a small head, large eyes, dished profile and high arched neck.

Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ 786px-Antoine-Jean_Gros_003
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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:09 am

The other thing is that photo is of a foal, with its still undeveloped head.   

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Post by Maddog Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:14 am

eddie wrote:Although breeding animals is by no means anything new, there’s been a greater focus on breeding specific domestic animals for their appearance. The primary issue with this type of animal breeding is that, often times, these new “attractive features” come at the cost of the animal’s wellbeing, creating health problems.

Genetically modified dogs have gained a lot of attention lately, as more people are becoming aware of the additional health risks dogs face when breeders try to alter their characteristics.



UK equine expert Tim Greet stated:

“Actually this deformity is even more significant for a horse than for a dog. Dogs like man can mouth breathe, but horses can ONLY breathe through their nose. I suspect exercise would definitely be limited for this horse.”

Jonathan Pycock, an equine reproduction expert and president of the British Equine Veterinary Association, said:

I would imagine this horse could have respiratory problems – you would have to test it for sure – but you can’t say with any certainty that respiratory problems won’t develop. It would seem to have the potential to impact negatively on its health in terms of air intake.

The problem comes when you breed for particular looks and when those looks are detrimental to the horse’s health. In my book, that is fundamentally wrong. This is a worrying development.

Roly Owers, equine vet and chief executive of World Horse Welfare, said:

In a word this looks horrific. The foal in the video shows a markedly more dished nose even than its mother and has obviously been bred to achieve this. This appears to be breeding in a weakness that could severely affect future generations – and if there is not a restriction to the airway in this particular animal already then there will be in future generations. On first sight it is the airway restriction that is more concerning than the pronounced forehead – but this rather depends on how this develops as the foal grows.

Obviously Arabs have dished noses but this has been bred into the extreme. Quite disgusting!


Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ Img_8811

More on link including video: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/20/disturbing-photos-of-designer-horses-go-viral-shed-light-on-the-cruel-world-of-animal-breeding/

I kinda surfed around that site.

It looks a little iffy to me. Shocked
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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:18 am

What people don't realise too, is that the Arab horse has that wide bulging forehead for a reason.  It adds extra sinus capacity in the hot desert climate.   

There are different strains too.   Main ones are Keheilan, Seqlawi, Abeyan, Hamdani and Hadban and each has their own characteristic. 


Last edited by HoratioTarr on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:21 am

The Saqlawi and Abbeyan strains in particular have the bulging forehead (jibbah)  and small muzzle.  Much more so than other strains.
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Post by Cass Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:27 am

HoratioTarr wrote:What people don't realise too, is that the Arab horse has that wide bulging forehead for a reason.  It adds extra sinus capacity in the hot desert climate.   

There are different strains too.   Main ones are Keheilan, Seqlawi, Abeyan, Hamdani and Hadban and each has their own characteristic. 

Interesting. I knew they had the bulge but never connected what it was for. Thanks.

They’re still beautiful.
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Post by Original Quill Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:51 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It's an Arab...small head, a dished face with wide eyes and arching neck...these are the hallmarks of the purebred Arabian.  They are generally small bodied horses, but there isn't a full photograph.

This painting was done in 1810.   The Arab horse has always had a small head, large eyes, dished profile and high arched neck.

Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ 786px-Antoine-Jean_Gros_003

Exactly...this is just an Arab.  My daughters didn't like Arabs because they were too small to be good jumpers.  You need a tall Thoroughbred, at least for stadium jumping.

Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ 729493-bigthumbnail

And I agree with you, HT.  Now that I see a fuller picture of it, the animal hasn't filled out yet, so it might turn out to be quite normal.  It's dish, or spoon face is accentuated because it is so young. Otherwise, it's developing quite nicely. I love their muscular bodies.

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Post by 'Wolfie Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:42 am

Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ 1366281442

Thoroughbreds have actually been "line bred" out from Arabs over the past three centuries, selecting for long legs, athleticism, and stamina/staying power over 2-->>3 miles...

Every registered Thoroughbred on the planet can be traced back to one of three Arab sires :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred

Many show jumpers are retired gallopers, with few horses specifically bred just for showjumping and three day eventing.

(Hawkesbury Ag' college has a registered Arab breeding stud on campus;  plus I rode a couple of horses down there that were Arab x Clydesdale --  that's the kind of stock horse that could carry the 'heavier' riders, as well as endurance for working all day..).
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Post by Original Quill Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:31 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ 1366281442

Thoroughbreds have actually been "line bred" out from Arabs over the past three centuries, selecting for long legs, athleticism, and stamina/staying power over 2-->>3 miles...

Every registered Thoroughbred on the planet can be traced back to one of three Arab sires :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred

Many show jumpers are retired gallopers, with few horses specifically bred just for showjumping and three day eventing.

(Hawkesbury Ag' college has a registered Arab breeding stud on campus;  plus I rode a couple of horses down there that were Arab x Clydesdale --  that's the kind of stock horse that could carry the 'heavier' riders, as well as endurance for working all day..).

There are a lot of breeding possibilities. Arab blood is introduced to a lot of breeds because of the stamina. But the Arab breed itself is simply too small to be a jumper. While the Arab is generally, on average, about 15 hands high, the Jumper needs to be at least 17 hands high. Legs are everything with Jumpers, as those gates can be tall.

Extreme Horse Breeding Creates ‘Cartoon Horse’ Steeplechase1-1024x683

Arabs are very intelligent and can be trained for dressage and 5-gaited activities. And, they are beautiful animals.

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Post by eddie Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:21 pm

This article is about a new breeder in Washington. The Telegraph also reported on it.
So perhaps it's an issue with the actual breeder?

Ps I know Arab horses have been around a long time. That wasn't the point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/10/13/extreme-horse-breeding-leaves-animals-looking-like-cartoons/
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Post by Original Quill Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:09 pm

eddie wrote:This article is about a new breeder in Washington. The Telegraph also reported on it.  So perhaps it's an issue with the actual breeder?

The horse as a species was the result of breeding.  The horse that man first knew was a poor thing; so poor, indeed, that man hunted it for food.  Stone Age man chose to eat the horse, rather than drive or ride it, because the animal they knew was almost certainly not strong enough in the back to bear the weight of an adult human, while men themselves had not yet designed a vehicle that the horse could pull.  About 12,000 years ago, the horse was cut out of a herd and tamed to a useful mutualism.

The donkey or ass, and the hemione of Mongolia and Turkestan--which man rode, but only over the hindquarters because the back could not support him--suggested to man that the early equus might be bred for stronger work.  First came the castrated cow--or Ox--which man domesticated for pulling.

Man discovered that the 'control' position of the riding animal was forward of the hindquarters.  So the donkey was not the answer.  About the beginning of the second millennium BC, the domesticated horse began to have its role transformed from that of meat-giver to load-puller.  Herdsmen had already learned the rudiments of selective breeding through their management of sheep, goats and cows; to apply it to the horse was a natural step.

Breeding of the horse came long before veterinary science.  Probably a lot of mistakes have been made over 12,000-years. If this Arab animal is problematical, it will just be another maladjustment. But breeding was what made the horse, so I'm pretty sure most horses would approve. Wink

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