Racial bias in British courts.

What we knew (or certainly  suspected) all along.
Same offence. Blacks imprisoned. Whites reprimanded. 

There just needs equity and parity in sentencing. Thats is all people want.

http://news.sky.com/story/justice-review-calls-for-deferred-prosecution-to-tackle-discrimination-11024812

Angry Andy wrote:What we knew (or certainly  suspected) all along.
Same offence. Blacks imprisoned. Whites reprimanded. 

There just needs equity and parity in sentencing. Thats is all people want.

http://news.sky.com/story/justice-review-calls-for-deferred-prosecution-to-tackle-discrimination-11024812

Indeed, as i said earlier, there is certainly a bias on what goes to court and sentencing, this deals with what could go to trial. Its where the CPS will look at something where the name, racial group etc , are not given. This its looked at fairly. Though the articles differ on aspects, they come from the same report Andy

This is what I said earlier and maybe the mods can merge.



Interesting idea to take. Of course this should never extend to being used for an actual trial itself, as body language is so important to assess within a trial. Though this would be a very fair system, for the CPS to assess each case with no identity. Just the evidence and aspects of the crime. At least this should rule out any potential racial/religious/gender bias on whether to prosecute or not.

I only see one flaw, if they are repeat offenders? Where someone with previous, could get overlooked and let off without a trial. Or will this be highlighted also? Or certain crimes like religious or political terrorism. Not sure how you can not notice certain aspects of that case

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21936-criminals-should-face-race-blind-prosecutions-to-tackle-discrimination-landmark-review-recommends

One thing we need to do is decriminalize drugs and make legal, certain drugs like Cannabis. Now that Cannabis is being used medically, it makes sense to now legalize it.

It would free up so much police time, make it taxable, less crime on the streets, gangs denied an input of illegal money made off this etc.

The UK Muslim population doubled under labour... so it is no real surprise that we see a similar rise in percentage of Muslims in prison population...


This Lammy report is basically calling for softer treatment of black & Muslim criminals, to try to hide the fact that they are much more criminal than everybody else in UK... except for politicians that is... who are the group who are most likely to face jail (by %per capita) than any other group here in UK...!!!



But back to OP... this is bullshit lefty double standards and attempts at gerrymandering again...!!!



The prison population is a direct reflection of those who commit serious crime here in UK!!!


On one hand the leftys say that we are all the same regardless of colour/race/religion etc, while on the other they seem to think that flooding areas/schools/institutions with (only) blacks/Muslims is a great thing for reasons of 'diversity' and 'enrichment' etc... which is a direct contradiction of their first claim... but then also complain that some of the 'all the same as everyone else' people are being a higher number of prison population... and suddenly the race/religion aspect becomes relevant to them, we're not the same any more, and this extra 'diversity/enrichment' that they bring to the prison population/system is somehow an issue...


A school full of blacks/Muslims with not a white English kid in sight... YAY!!!


A prison full of criminals who just happen to be blacks/Muslims... OH NO!!! WE MUST HAVE MORE WHITES TO BALANCE OUT THE NUMBERS TO ACCURATELY REFLECT THE WIDER NATIONAL POPULATION... AND EVERYONE IN POLICE/CPS/JUSTICE SYSTEM MUST BE RACIST!!!

So Tommy how do you explain how where serious white repeat offenders have received lighter sentences than Black offenders for the same crimes?

The report does not call for softer treatment at all racially or religiously, in fact I would love for you to point out any part where it says it does?

In your own time please.

It calls for any case presented before the CPS to be devoid of knowing the ethnicity and name of the offender. So what harm could that do Tommy? When fairly judging that case with the CPS?

The reality with Muslim offenders is as I have said, and has to be looked into further, but I think it has more to do with a rural Pakistani cultural religious aspect here. As where is all the grooming gangs in the rest of Europe with other Ethnic Muslims? Or the US and Australia. They have Muslim groups from other Muslim majority areas. France has Algeria and Morocco. Germany has Turks. The US has Lebanese, Palestinians, Iranians etc. This is why cultural aspects in conjunction with Islamic beliefs play a part.

We know for a fact there is a disparity over sentencing over certain crimes like drugs for example. 

As usual Tommy reads something as he does not research

Would he like evidence again?

How does he explain crime rates in Scotland and other poor areas where knife crime rates are high with whites?

On the one hand people could excuse you for being a nationalist fascist. I on the other hand simple think you are ignorant Tommy.

The whole premise of the report does exactly what i said...


It is completely about the high number of black/Muslim criminals in prisons, and seeking ways of lowering the numbers through softer treaments in justice system... regardless of these groups having a significantly higher rate of offending...

Tommy Monk wrote:The whole premise of the report does exactly what i said...


It is completely about the high number of black/Muslim criminals in prisons, and seeking ways of lowering the numbers through softer treaments in justice system... regardless of these groups having a significantly higher rate of offending...

Really?
How will it lower the numbers by removing the identity to the CPS their ethnicity and name before it is decided to go to trial?

I would love to hear this

In your own time

Are you saying its needed to know the skin colour of the suspect in order to charge a person or factual evidence?

That is not the only proposal... but it is one that could be used to fudge the figures of those prosecuted/not prosecuted etc under a cloak of ambiguity/secrecy that shrouds the truth from the public...


And if, as you say, it will not have any effect on anything... then what is the point of it at all...!!!???


The CPS already operate under a system of where decisions on prosecutions are made on only the basis of evidence provided and where there is enough sound evidence to likely ensure a successful prosecution...

Tommy: "The Muslim population doubled under labour... so it is no real surprise of uk that we see a similar rise in percentage of prison population..."

Huh?

Tommy Monk wrote:That is not the only proposal... but it is one that could be used to fudge the figures of those prosecuted/not prosecuted etc under a cloak of ambiguity/secrecy that shrouds the truth from the public...


And if, as you say, it will not have any effect on anything... then what is the point of it at all...!!!???


The CPS already operate under a system of where decisions on prosecutions are made on only the basis of evidence provided and where there is enough sound evidence to likely ensure a successful prosecution...

How on earth could it be used to fudge the figures after prosecution?

They already do not notify the religion of someone convicted. Only the Ministry of Justice does once in prison?

The point is, to eliminate any racial bias on when the CPS makes a decision to prosecute

So again, how can that be a bad thing Tommy?

The CPS will receive evidence devoid of the name and ethnicity of the offender and decide on the evidence whether to proceed with a trial. Which means it will rule out any claim of racial bias. Surely you more than anyone would welcome this. As then if the numbers do not change on ethnic groups going to face trial. It would prove beyond doubt there never was any bias. I mean the one thing that could actually prove your point and you argue against it.



I would laugh, but it shows how incompetent you are Tommy. The reality is, we know that there is either a bias or something else that determines this disparity. As whites get off more than blacks for the exact same crimes, before going to trial. Even more so on sentencing. This will be able to rule out any racial bias before any prosecution charge is made. This of course does not tackle sentencing where there is certainly clear bias. Where its well known by even evidence by the Ministry of Justice Blacks face harsher sentences for the same crimes.

eddie wrote:

Tommy: "The Muslim population of UK doubled under labour... so it is no real surprise that we see a similar rise in percentage of Muslims in prison population..."

Huh?

Eddie... I had real problems with internet while trying to make my post that you took above quote from... I have edited it to make more sense... if you want further clarity then please ask...

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:That is not the only proposal... but it is one that could be used to fudge the figures of those prosecuted/not prosecuted etc under a cloak of ambiguity/secrecy that shrouds the truth from the public...


And if, as you say, it will not have any effect on anything... then what is the point of it at all...!!!???


The CPS already operate under a system of where decisions on prosecutions are made on only the basis of evidence provided and where there is enough sound evidence to likely ensure a successful prosecution...

How on earth could it be used to fudge the figures after prosecution?

They already do not notify the religion of someone convicted. Only the Ministry of Justice does once in prison?

The point is, to eliminate any racial bias on when the CPS makes a decision to prosecute

So again, how can that be a bad thing Tommy?

The CPS will receive evidence devoid of the name and ethnicity of the offender and decide on the evidence whether to proceed with a trial. Which means it will rule out any claim of racial bias. Surely you more than anyone would welcome this. As then if the numbers do not change on ethnic groups going to face trial. It would prove beyond doubt there never was any bias. I mean the one thing that could actually prove your point and you argue against it.



I would laugh, but it shows how incompetent you are Tommy. The reality is, we know that there is either a bias or something else that determines this disparity. As whites get off more than blacks for the exact same crimes, before going to trial. Even more so on sentencing. This will be able to rule out any racial bias before any prosecution charge is made. This of course does not tackle sentencing where there is certainly clear bias. Where its well known by even evidence by the Ministry of Justice Blacks face harsher sentences for the same crimes.

There already is no CPS racial bias involved in decisions of prosecutions... the decisions are already evidence based... so another lefty red herring that only goes towards creating division and distrust in the system...

Tommy Monk wrote:

A prison full of criminals who just happen to be blacks/Muslims... OH NO!!! WE MUST HAVE MORE WHITES TO BALANCE OUT THE NUMBERS TO ACCURATELY REFLECT THE WIDER NATIONAL POPULATION... AND EVERYONE IN POLICE/CPS/JUSTICE SYSTEM MUST BE RACIST!!!

So this happens to be the dumbest of all Tommies comments.

The fact that 400 million Muslims are Arabs and Caucasians, let alone millions more European Muslims like Albania, Bosnia, Azerbaijan, Georgia ect. He neglects the fact, the majority of people in prison are actually white in the UK.
Why are whites in prison Tommy?

Why have consistently white English people committed crimes against humanity?

Why is it that the worst atrocities have been committed by ethnically white people throughout history?

How should we look and base this on your views Tommy?

Even more so with ignorance, that this report seeks to have balance before something goes to trial. Something that would actually be able to rule out racial bias, and he argues against it.

How paranoid is Tommy?

Not everyone is racist within the justice system or the Police. Certainly a small minority may well be and unconsciously some more may well be and yet this plan would seek to disprove or prove this.

So the question to ask, is why on earth is Tommy so worried about this?

i shall leave others to decide for themselves his motivations on this

Night everyone

Maybe didge can tell us the % of blacks and Muslims in UK prisons and the % of blacks and Muslims in general population of UK...?



I'll start the facts for him... Muslims now make up about 5% of uk population thanks to labour overseeing the doubling of Muslims in uk while in govt from 1997-2010...


Prison population of Muslims... 15%!!!



Maybe didge can tell us the % of blacks...?

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe didge can tell us the % of blacks and Muslims in UK prisons and the % of blacks and Muslims in general population of UK...?
I'll start the facts for him... Muslims now make up about 5% of uk population thanks to labour overseeing the doubling of Muslims in uk while in govt from 1997-2010...
Prison population of Muslims... 15%!!!
Maybe didge can tell us the % of blacks...?

So the bases of your argument is based on maths and not reasons or why people commit crime

Is that you argument?

What ethnic groups make up those who are Muslim in prison Tommy?

I have made my points on certain ethnic groups of Muslims, would you like to see?

Before I do, it has nothing to do with race, because race is a social constrict, but has everything to do with ideology and cultural beliefs.

So Muslims represent 15%, why do whites represent 70% Tommy?

You do realise one is an ideology and one is a racial classification do you not?

Please breakdown the ethnic groups of Muslims in jail and then do a percentage compared to ethnic English?

In your own time Tommy  

I mean how can you compare religion to race?

Then show me how and where which area of ethnic groups are convicted, based on poverty levels and rich areas?

So % of blacks compared to general population...?


Come on dodge...???



I'll help you out with another statistic...


www.independent.co.uk/.../eu-referendum-more-than-13000-foreign-criminals-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html


NICE!!!

You see the reason Tommy will come unstuck here is he makes an idiotic racist argument. Because someone of Tommy's low intelligence believes people born geographically are more prone to crime based on a social construct and not beliefs for example.

I mean take his view, There is more blacks in prison percentage wise that whites, yet far more whites in prison. Then we have Muslim, which is not a race and have Asians in the main who are Muslim convicted. So then if Tommy wants to break down this correctly, surely he should be able to break down the Asian and Black ethnic groups that are in jail? We know that most whites in jail are British. 

So can Tommy answer my questions???

You see how easy it is to expose someone who argues absurdly racially like Tommy?


Even worse his link does not work and goes off foreign criminals, which could be any ethnicity.

I think his IQ has dropped to about 80 now...

I suppose Tommy will be next telling me, that the IRA, were not Irish extremist terrorist, but vastly white terrorists?

Is this how he wants to look at ideologies?

Oh well, I guess i will have to wait until tomorrow for Tommy to break down ethnic groups on crime rates.

Night

"...21,937 prisoners are from a minority ethnic group. This compares to around one in 10 of the general population.

Out of the British national prison population, 10% are black and 6% are Asian. For black Britons this is significantly higher than the 2.8% of the general population they represent.

Overall black prisoners account for the largest number of minority ethnic prisoners (49%)..."


Around 15% of prisoners are foreign nationals...


Blacks in prison around 11,000 out of around 80,000... while only being less than 3% of uk population


Muslims are 15% of prison population compared to being 5% of UK population...

Tommy Monk wrote:

"...21,937 prisoners are from a minority ethnic group. This compares to around one in 10 of the general population. Out of the British national prison population, 10% are black and 6% are Asian. For black Britons this is significantly higher than the 2.8% of the general population they represent.
Overall black prisoners account for the largest number of minority ethnic prisoners (49%)..."
Around 15% of prisoners are foreign nationals...
Blacks in prison around 11,000 out of around 80,000... while only being less than 3% of uk population
Muslims are 15% of prison population compared to being 3% of UK population...

lol, try again Tommy, 

You see the reason Tommy will come unstuck here is he makes an idiotic racist argument. Because someone of Tommy's low intelligence believes people born geographically are more prone to crime based on a social construct and not beliefs for example.

I mean take his view, There is more blacks in prison percentage wise that whites, yet far more whites in prison. Then we have Muslim, which is not a race and have Asians in the main who are Muslim convicted. So then if Tommy wants to break down this correctly, surely he should be able to break down the Asian and Black ethnic groups that are in jail? We know that most whites in jail are British. 

So can Tommy answer my questions???

You see how easy it is to expose someone who argues absurdly racially like Tommy?


Even worse his link does not work and goes off foreign criminals, which could be any ethnicity.

I suppose Tommy will be next telling me, that the IRA, were not Irish extremist terrorist, but vastly white terrorists?

Is this how he wants to look at ideologies?

See what Tommy needs to do is offer something like this

At the end of 2016 foreign nationals within the prison population came from 173 different countries. The top ten countries from which FNPs originated accounted for 54% of all foreign nationals.

Nationalities of foreign prisoners, top 10, December 2016 Nationality Number % of all FN

Polish 917 9.4% (White European)

Irish 746 7.7%  (White European)

Romanian 654 6.7%  (White European)

Albanian 572 5.9%  (White European)

Jamaican 514 5.3% (West Indian)

Lithuanian 430 4.4%  (White European)

Pakistani 412 4.2% (Asian)

Indian 373 3.8% (Asian)

Somalian 335 3.4% (African)

Nigerian 320 3.3%  (African)


Seems to me its more white foreign criminals, so how does Tommy explain that?

"...21,937 prisoners are from a minority ethnic group..."

That is over a quarter of prisoners!!!


And half of them are black!!!


That is about 14% of all prisoners!!!


What % of UK population is black dodge...???

Tommy Monk wrote:"...21,937 prisoners are from a minority ethnic group..."
That is over a quarter of prisoners!!!
And half of them are black!!!
That is about 14% of all prisoners!!!
What % of UK population is black dodge...???

Tommy still cannot grasp that skin colour has nothing to do with crime

Lets help him shall we

lol, try again Tommy, 

You see the reason Tommy will come unstuck here is he makes an idiotic racist argument. Because someone of Tommy's low intelligence believes people born geographically are more prone to crime based on a social construct and not beliefs/ideologies/poverty/mental health etc for example.

I mean take his view, There is more blacks in prison percentage wise that whites, yet far more whites in prison. Then we have Muslim, which is not a race and have Asians in the main who are Muslim convicted. So then if Tommy wants to break down this correctly, surely he should be able to break down the Asian and Black ethnic groups that are in jail? We know that most whites in jail are British. 

So can Tommy answer my questions???

You see how easy it is to expose someone who argues absurdly racially like Tommy?


Even worse his link does not work and goes off foreign criminals, which could be any ethnicity.

I suppose Tommy will be next telling me, that the IRA, were not Irish extremist terrorist, but vastly white terrorists?

Is this how he wants to look at ideologies?


See what Tommy needs to do is offer something like this

At the end of 2016 foreign nationals within the prison population came from 173 different countries. The top ten countries from which FNPs originated accounted for 54% of all foreign nationals.

Nationalities of foreign prisoners, top 10, December 2016 Nationality Number % of all FN

Polish 917 9.4% (White European)

Irish 746 7.7%  (White European)

Romanian 654 6.7%  (White European)

Albanian 572 5.9%  (White European)

Jamaican 514 5.3% (West Indian)

Lithuanian 430 4.4%  (White European)

Pakistani 412 4.2% (Asian)

Indian 373 3.8% (Asian)

Somalian 335 3.4% (African)

Nigerian 320 3.3%  (African)


Seems to me its more white foreign criminals, so how does Tommy explain that?

I mean I could expand even further in history for Tommy, on white committing mass murder.

Belgium Genocide in Congo 2 to 15 million dead

French conquest of Algeria 1 million dead

Irish Potato Famine, 1 million dead

British control of Australia, nearly 750,000 Aborigines

Italian Lybian Genocide, 100,000 Bedouin Cyrenaicans, half the population of Cyrenaica dead

Turkish genocide of Armenians, 1 and half million dead

Turkish genocide of Assyrians, 750,000 dead

Turkish Genocide of the Greeks, 300,000-900,000

Great Famine of Mount Lebanon 200,000 Maronite Christians dead

Number murdered, worked to death or starved by the Nazi's 11 million

Number murdered, worked to death or starved by the Soviet Union 8 million

I can keep going Tommy, can you show any comparability with endless African Genocides?

I thought this thread was about the large numbers of blacks and Muslims in UK prisons...!?


Maybe there isn't... and Lammy is making a fuss about nothing... and all the official prison statistics are wrong...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

I thought this thread was about the large numbers of blacks and Muslims in UK prisons...!?


Maybe there isn't... and Lammy is making a fuss about nothing... and all the official prison statistics are wrong...!?

Is it?

I thought it was about attempting rule out the possibility of racial bias when cases go to the CPS. As this report emphatically shows racial bias happens on arrests, court cases and sentencing Tommy. All evidence comes from the Ministry of Justice.

Have you been reading a different article again



I see you ran away from my points again. Its nearly as bad as your climate change denial