is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:43 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-anne-marie-morris-investigated-over-alleged-n-word-remark-10943881

this MP was very stupid for thinking she could use the term "n i g g e r in the woodpile" when referring to what happens if we get no EU deal, however the faux outrage from all an sundry over it is breathtakingly hypocritical.

where was the outrage over this comment

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist 1485128541701

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist 1485128541701

where is the outrage over numerous hippity hop and rap artists use of the word n i g g e r in their songs.

Where is the outrage from people over david lammys suggestion a white judge cant be in charge of the grenfell enquiry.
where is the outrage over robert pestons program offering an internship, white people need not apply.
where was the out rage over Abbots endless racism about white people.

the word is either racist or it is not. there shouldn't be need to reference a list of approved uses of it before using it.

and the tories response to this, the whip was withdrawn in about 4 hours, a rather swifter response than the the labour parties response to livingstones anti semitism and a host of other labour party member anti semitic comments.

by Syl Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Oh snap....I just posted a thread in the same vein....I will delete.

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:50 pm

Syl wrote:Oh snap....I just posted a thread in the same vein....I will delete.

just ask someone to merge them and the one of us who got there first will be the first post.

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:00 pm

Syl wrote:Double standards obviously. Let a white person use the word and they are the devil incarnate...listen to loads of black music and its often the most used word in there....amongst with the much more offensive mother f***er, bitch and various other names to describe the female of the species.

However.....why anyone with an ounce of sense would use a word that's known to cause upset and outrage is beyond me...no point..

the question is it offensive when the term she used was not so dissimilar in meaning to "the elephant in the room" which might have been a better choice of words. And it certainly was not directed at any specific person or even race.

It has been rather amusing watch the left get more and more triggered on twitter today though. Ickle owen jones has been a treat

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:02 pm

perhaps she should have said

"Person of ethnicity in the environmentally friendly and sustainable energy source"

thanks to old holbourn for that one

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:02 pm

by Syl Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:04 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Syl wrote:Double standards obviously. Let a white person use the word and they are the devil incarnate...listen to loads of black music and its often the most used word in there....amongst with the much more offensive mother f***er, bitch and various other names to describe the female of the species.

However.....why anyone with an ounce of sense would use a word that's known to cause upset and outrage is beyond me...no point..
the question is it offensive when the term she used was not so dissimilar in meaning to "the elephant in the room" which might have been a better choice of words. And it certainly was not directed at any specific person or even race.

It has been rather amusing watch the left get more and more triggered on twitter today though. Ickle owen jones has been a treat

She was using a term that was probably acceptable not so long ago....but she was imo stupid to do so.
She definately wasn't using it against a particular person.

We used to have a cat called N*****....way back then it was a colour, which was also the colour of my cat.....I am going back to the 60's though when no one thought anything of the word being used in context.

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:04 pm

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist DEY_OMkXgAM8kcc

ickle owen virtue signalling away

by HoratioTarr Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:33 pm

Syl wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
the question is it offensive when the term she used was not so dissimilar in meaning to "the elephant in the room" which might have been a better choice of words. And it certainly was not directed at any specific person or even race.

It has been rather amusing watch the left get more and more triggered on twitter today though. Ickle owen jones has been a treat

She was using a term that was probably acceptable not so long ago....but she was imo stupid to do so.
She definately wasn't using it against a particular person.

We used to have a cat called N*****....way back then it was a colour, which was also the colour of my cat.....I am going back to the 60's though when no one thought anything of the word being used in context.

Ni.....ger in the woodpile originated from the States.

It was an expression I heard as a kid back in the 70s. Even Fawlty Towers used the wog word in one of their episodes.

by HoratioTarr Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:35 pm

The term "white niggers" was uttered twice by Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia in an interview on national television in 2001.

These politicians could do with a course at Charm School....

by magica Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:43 pm

My friend, back in early 60s who was black, had a dog named n---er, it wasn't used as a racist thing at all.

Its a colour n---er brown, and many black American rappers use the word all the time, in songs and speech.

I know we've had this topic before.

Not a nice word tbh. I think it comes from the south slavery days.

I must admit its never been a word I was used to hearing to describe black people when a kid. It was a name for animals not people.

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:42 pm

magica wrote:My friend, back in early 60s who was black, had a dog named n---er, it wasn't used as a racist thing at all.

Its a colour n---er brown, and many black American rappers use the word all the time, in songs and speech.

I know we've had this topic before.

Not a nice word tbh. I think it comes from the south slavery days.

I must admit its never been a word I was used to hearing to describe black people when a kid. It was a name for animals not people.

yes the term originated in the south to describe escaped slaves.
the word either is or isn't wacist though, surely it cant be wacist some of the time for some of the people and not the rest of the time. Context is surely all.

by magica Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:12 pm

I think when directed at a black person, that's racist to me. When I was a kid no one used that word to a black person.

Why do black rappers call themselves it though is beyond me.

by The Devil, You Know Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:39 pm

magica wrote:I think when directed at a black person, that's racist to me. When I was a kid no one used that word to a black person.

Why do black rappers call themselves it though is beyond me.

yep context is all.

by Syl Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:04 pm

magica wrote:I think when directed at a black person, that's racist to me. When I was a kid no one used that word to a black person.

Why do black rappers call themselves it though is beyond me.

I don't think I have ever heard the word used to a black person.....it's an insult, so why would anyone deliberately want to offend someone.
Same with the word negro....now considered offensive, so don't use it.

by magica Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:46 pm

No I've not either but black people call themselves it in songs. So strange imo.

by Syl Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm

magica wrote:No I've not either but black people call themselves it in songs. So strange imo.

Yep...nowt as queer as folk. Laughing

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:04 am

magica wrote:My friend, back in early 60s who was black, had a dog named n---er, it wasn't used as a racist thing at all.

Its a colour n---er brown, and many black American rappers use the word all the time, in songs and speech.

I know we've had this topic before.

Not a nice word tbh. I think it comes from the south slavery days.

I must admit its never been a word I was used to hearing to describe black people when a kid. It was a name for animals not people.

Even back in the 70's we knew it was derogatory. It originates from the Latin for black.

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:12 am

magica wrote:I think when directed at a black person, that's racist to me. When I was a kid no one used that word to a black person.

Why do black rappers call themselves it though is beyond me.

It's an effort to disempower the word or meaning of it. It's actually spelled Nigga. It's what humans do to deflect a thing in an attempt to render it impotent. Homosexuals did it with the word Queer. But I think it just gives idiot racists more fuel to continue using it because they think because black people call each other that, it justifies them using it too. I've heard white kids calling each other nigga.

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:16 am

Vocabulary is ever changing.
To describe a black person as coloured is now frowned on....in future black won't be acceptable either.
I think many times when a person uses terminology that's now considered unacceptable there is no intent to insult.

Obviously I don't include the n words in that.

by Original Quill Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:48 am

Huffpost wrote:nigger verses Nigga

The term “nigger” is a derogatory term used against Black people. The word was originated from the Latin word “Niger”, and the Spanish, “Negro”, meaning Black, which was used to describe Black people. The meaning of the word “nigger” is -an ignorant person. By the late 1800’s, particularly during the Atlantic slave trade, the word was used in a derogatory manner, and often used as a racial slur against Black people. The word “n---er” has often been used as an insult against people of African descent. The word is extremely offensive and often not mentioned unless one is intended to insult another.

In the song ‘Woman’, rapped by Talib Kweli, he states “she went from being called n---er to Negro to colored to Black to Afro, to African American and right back to Nigga”. His statement shows the racism behind the word “nigger” and how people of African descent fought to be labeled respectfully, to reflect the beauty of their race, yet ended up going back to the original roots of being called “nigger”, yet justifying that “Nigga” has an entirely different meaning. “Nigga” used as a form of slang is one of the most popular words used today. The term is used in today’s slang, among African American groups predominately and hip hop musicians. This outrage of the word being used by African Americans was done so to desensitize the derogatory message behind the word. The term has become so popular that it is now a part of culture and many other groups, considerably; non-African American people are now using the word as well.

The problem with the usage of the word “Nigga” is its roots stemming from “nigger”, which is harsh in its nature. Some things can’t be turned around. You just can’t take a negative word and turn it into a positive word by changing its meaning. The roots still has its imprints. Also, other cultures, many which have used the word “nigger” against Black people as an attack now have access to the slang term “Nigga”. The word should not even be used by people of African descent, let alone someone who is non- Black, whose ancestry doesn’t revolve around the sufferings pertaining to it. Some Black people might say they are more entitled to the word, due to the slavery, oppression, racism, and segregation of their ancestors, which came alongside with being called the N word. Some might say, they’ve earned usage of the word because their ancestors died during the middle passage, and civil rights movement, when the N word was used for derogatory purposes only.

The term ‘nigger’ has evolved into “Nigga”, and its usage is much more popular among all cultures today. Some do not mind letting their non-Black friends use the N word, however, many African Americans suffer because of this. Many African Americans to date are educated, politically aware beings and do not stray from knowing the historical facts associated with the word and therefore do not use the word in jest nor do they allow other cultures to use the word in their presence. I personally do not use the word, nor do I allow others of different cultures to use the word. I am highly against the word being used, even among my African descent people. I think the word should be banned and should be illegal.

Many non-Blacks who use the word justify that they are not using the ER at the end of the word, and that they don’t mean it in a derogatory sense, yet when upset, many other cultures have used “Nigga” as an insult against a person of color. Many non-Blacks have explained to me that, their Black friends use the word, so they feel it is okay for them to also use it. Many non-Blacks have also stated that some of their Black friends gave them permission to use the word in their presence, without explaining to them that it may be offensive in the presence of others.

There are so many contradictions behind this word. Some feel they can use it, while others shouldn’t be able to use it. Some people don’t understand the influence they may have on other cultures by constantly using the word in their presence, and especially in music. Some defend the difference of context associated with “nigger” vs “Nigga”.

Having to constantly separate the intent behind the word is very confusing for many. While some may say there is a difference between the word “nigger” and “Nigga” and both words have different meanings, there are many cases where racist people have used the term “Nigga” as a racist attack against Black people. Regardless if one uses the ER at the end of the word or not, the meaning, roots, and circumstances associated with the word remain the same. History can never be changed.

I petition the N word be banned from the mouths of people of African descent, and especially be banned from the vocabulary’s of non-Black people. We have to stop justifying the n-word and its meanings. “nigger” vs “Nigga” has the same meaning and its intent is not positive and every time the word is used, it is not used in a positive manner. Just think about it. Almost every time the word is used to describe someone or something, there is a negative connotation behind the usage of the word. If a word cannot be used in court, chances are, it’s a bad word.

The term actually originates from Latin: Niger, like the Niger River in Africa. In Spanish it is, negro.

West Africans--Ibos--who were the source of most slaves brought out of the African continent, spoke a language with distinct ending sounds...in particular, 'r's were flattened into 'a's. (You Brits do the reverse, and pronounce 'Cuba' as Cuber.) This has led to an English dialect spoken by African Americans, called Ebonics...nigger becomes nigga, and 'holler' becomes 'holla', and so forth. Because privileged whites were raised by black nannys, ebonics have strongly influenced the south, and hence the southern accent, from the Carolina's to mid-Texas.

'Nigga' would have come out of the black homes, where ebonics was commonly spoken. Mothers would have disapproved. But, I think black rappers are deliberately using (or not abstaining) certain terms to show a certain rebelliousness or 'shock-value'.

by magica Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:24 am

Thank you Quill that was really interesting to read.

by magica Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:29 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
magica wrote:My friend, back in early 60s who was black, had a dog named n---er, it wasn't used as a racist thing at all.

Its a colour n---er brown, and many black American rappers use the word all the time, in songs and speech.

I know we've had this topic before.

Not a nice word tbh. I think it comes from the south slavery days.

I must admit its never been a word I was used to hearing to describe black people when a kid. It was a name for animals not people.

Even back in the 70's we knew it was derogatory. It originates from the Latin for black.

Yes in the 70s, we were all aware of its meaning, but I'm talking early 60s. I'd never heard anyone call a black person n---er but then I was very young.

by Fred Moletrousers Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:51 am

One famous "N****r" (purists please note use of capital N) was the name of a black dog owned by Wing Commander Guy Gibson, Commander of 617 Squadron of the RAF and leader of the attack on the German Mohne, Eder and Sorpe dams in 1943 and commemorated by the 1955 film The Dambusters starring Richard Todd.

The dog was run over and killed, legend has it, just before the raid and Gibson left instructions that N should be buried at midnight while he and his squadron were over Germany.

I was briefly stationed at 617 Squadron's base in Lincolnshire in the 1960's and the dog's marked grave, as I recall, was still there near the guardhouse.

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:04 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:One famous "N****r" (purists please note use of capital N) was the name of a black dog owned by Wing Commander Guy Gibson, Commander of 617 Squadron of the RAF and leader of the attack on the German Mohne, Eder and Sorpe dams in 1943 and commemorated by the 1955 film The Dambusters starring Richard Todd.

The dog was run over and killed, legend has it, just before the raid and Gibson left instructions that N should be buried at midnight while he and his squadron were over Germany.

I was briefly stationed at 617 Squadron's base in Lincolnshire in the 1960's and the dog's marked grave, as I recall, was still there near the guardhouse.

People have to realise that times change and what was acceptable then isn't now. People might say, fancy calling a dog that...but it wasn't seen as so offensive in those days. Makes you cringe though.

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:05 pm

magica wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Even back in the 70's we knew it was derogatory. It originates from the Latin for black.

Yes in the 70s, we were all aware of its meaning, but I'm talking early 60s. I'd never heard anyone call a black person n---er but then I was very young.

You got lucky. Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it wasn't used. I think the term 'darkie' was used a lot in the UK, and 'wog'.

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:17 pm

I grew up in Salford in the 50's and 60's. I don't really remember seeing any racial slurs against blacks or jews, and we did live in a mixed area for that time.
In fact the only racism I can ever recall seeing was against the Irish, where at least one local pub had a notice in the window saying they were not welcome.

by magica Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:44 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
magica wrote:

Yes in the 70s, we were all aware of its meaning, but I'm talking early 60s. I'd never heard anyone call a black person n---er but then I was very young.

You got lucky. Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it wasn't used. I think the term 'darkie' was used a lot in the UK, and 'wog'.

I didn't say it wasn't used, but I never heard it or Wog when little. Coloured yes, black yes not the other expressions.

by Original Quill Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:09 pm

Syl wrote:I grew up in Salford in the 50's and 60's. I don't really remember seeing any racial slurs against blacks or jews, and we did live in a mixed area for that time.
In fact the only racism I can ever recall seeing was against the Irish, where at least one local pub had a notice in the window saying they were not welcome.

New England--which is anything northeast of New York--was where I was born. We were horrified by the term nigger, which is mostly southern, but around Boston north, the words 'they're shanty Irish' were not at all uncommon.

Also interesting is that Boston is the only American accent that mimics the British, with the long internal vowels and the 'Cuba' to 'Cuber' inflection. (Oz also does this in a very pronounced (no pun intended) way. Laughing

They don't say 'fellow', but 'feller'.)

I guess it's not called New England for nothing.

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I grew up in Salford in the 50's and 60's. I don't really remember seeing any racial slurs against blacks or jews, and we did live in a mixed area for that time.
In fact the only racism I can ever recall seeing was against the Irish, where at least one local pub had a notice in the window saying they were not welcome.

New England--which is anything northeast of New York--was where I was born. We were horrified by the term nigger, which is mostly southern, but around Boston north, the words 'they're shanty Irish' were not at all uncommon.

Also interesting is that Boston is the only American accent that mimics the British, with the long internal vowels and the 'Cuba' to 'Cuber' inflection. (Oz also does this in a very pronounced (no pun intended) way. They don't say 'fellow', but 'feller'.)

I guess it's not called New England for nothing.

Certain places in New England are the places in the US I would visit if I ever came over....it looks absolutely beautiful in the Autumn (fall) as does old England ...(here) Smile

by Original Quill Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:08 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

New England--which is anything northeast of New York--was where I was born. We were horrified by the term nigger, which is mostly southern, but around Boston north, the words 'they're shanty Irish' were not at all uncommon.

Also interesting is that Boston is the only American accent that mimics the British, with the long internal vowels and the 'Cuba' to 'Cuber' inflection. (Oz also does this in a very pronounced (no pun intended) way. They don't say 'fellow', but 'feller'.)

I guess it's not called New England for nothing.

Certain places in New England are the places in the US I would visit if I ever came over....it looks absolutely beautiful in the Autumn (fall) as does old England ...(here)

It is beautiful. My oldest daughter has settled into her home near Boston, with her family, and I get to visit her now and then.

The Berkshire Mountains, in western Massachusetts, are gorgeous in the Fall.

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Slidehs

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Slidehs

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:12 pm

Beautiful....the different hues of red, golden, orange, brown....stunning.
My BIL worked and travelled across some beautiful towns there 30 years ago, he took some gorgeous pics, not unsimilar to the one you have shown.

by Original Quill Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:26 pm

My father, who was born in Plymouth, Massachusetts, always liked the rocky sea coast:

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Portlandheadlight

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Portlandheadlight

Not like the broad beaches of Florida and Los Angeles (or San Diego), but with such mystery and drama.

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:40 pm

That scene would be very fitting in a Jane Austin novel.

Places in Cornwall have the same rugged beauty...we spend lots of the summertime in Wales Quill (have you ever been?) there is something for everyone there.
There are some nice pics on link.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/8-outrageously-beautiful-pictures-wales-10971779

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Certain places in New England are the places in the US I would visit if I ever came over....it looks absolutely beautiful in the Autumn (fall) as does old England ...(here)

It is beautiful. My oldest daughter has settled into her home near Boston, with her family, and I get to visit her now and then.

The Berkshire Mountains, in western Massachusetts, are gorgeous in the Fall.

Stunning. I've always wanted to visit New England.

by HoratioTarr Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:28 pm

Syl wrote:I grew up in Salford in the 50's and 60's. I don't really remember seeing any racial slurs against blacks or jews, and we did live in a mixed area for that time.
In fact the only racism I can ever recall seeing was against the Irish, where at least one local pub had a notice in the window saying they were not welcome.

People say it's grim up North but actually the North of England is stunning too.

This is Downham in the Trough of Bowland. We go there a lot.

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist ?image=%2Fdmsimgs%2Fdownham1

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist ?image=%2Fdmsimgs%2Fdownham1

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Yes I know that place....You are right, the North of England has some beautiful places....we are often very misreprisented here. Mad

.

by Original Quill Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:04 pm

Syl wrote:That scene would be very fitting in a Jane Austin novel.

Places in Cornwall have the same rugged beauty...we spend lots of the summertime in Wales Quill (have you ever been?) there is something for everyone there.
There are some nice pics on link.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/8-outrageously-beautiful-pictures-wales-10971779

Wow, very kewl. Love the views.

I haven't been around a lot of England. Even though I spent some time there as a lecturer at the U. of London, I liked the city too much.

My family is Scot. There are three kinds of Scots: lowland, highland and island Scots. We were island Scots, from Mull.

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Header-450

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Header-450

I've spent most of my time in Scotland.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Did you visit your castle Quill?

Laughing

by Syl Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 pm

I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

by JulesV Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:05 am

Did a naughty word slip out of the mouth of MP Anne Morris??
Oooops!!

Nevermind, it's not the end of the world.
There are more important things in life to worry about.

It's not as if punishing her will change her bigoted mindset.
She'll simply just be more careful when she speaks in future, to make sure it does not slip out again.

by Original Quill Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:19 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Did you visit your castle Quill?

Many times, as you know. Even stayed there. The owners are friends. Razz

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Duart_castle_mull_scotland_7101

by Original Quill Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:43 am

Syl wrote:I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

Especially since it's so close. Ben's back yard is your whole island.

is the word n i g g e r racist or is the way it is used racist Untitled

by nicko Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:35 am

In England we prefer quality to quantity Smile

by Andy Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:00 am

nicko wrote:In England we prefer quality to quantity

Nobody told Thorin that.

by 'Wolfie Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:25 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:
I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

Especially since it's so close. Ben's back yard is your whole island.

And, Texas is roughly three-quarters the size of New South Wales...

The British Isles will easily fit within the state of Victoria..

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:40 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

Especially since it's so close. Ben's back yard is your whole island.

It's when you look at this that you realise why it's difficult for us to have an open door policy to all migrants. We are soooo small compared to other countries!

by Syl Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:21 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

Especially since it's so close. Ben's back yard is your whole island.

I know...we are not used to such vastness. We travel from home to Wales approx 130 miles a lot...to us that's far enough to travel by car.
Mind you...when the journey can take up to 4 hours its more than enough.

by magica Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:10 pm

Syl wrote:I have never been to Scotland...its a shame how people take for granted what they have.

I've been to Edinburgh and I want to travel more there.

Love it up there, clean and beautiful.

by magica Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:12 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Especially since it's so close. Ben's back yard is your whole island.

I know...we are not used to such vastness. We travel from home to Wales approx 130 miles a lot...to us that's far enough to travel by car.
Mind you...when the journey can take up to 4 hours its more than enough.

Our country is so tiny. We flew over Australia and five hours later they said we were still over Australis Shocked

that's how vast it is.

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