Massive West London Apartment fire

First topic message reminder :

London fire: fears of people trapped as major blaze engulfs tower block


(CNN)A huge fire has engulfed a 24-story apartment block in West London.

Around 200 firefighters and 20 fire trucks have been deployed to tackle the blaze as rescue workers try to evacuate the building in Lancaster West Estate in North Kensington, London Fire Brigade said.


The fire broke out before daybreak local time Wednesday. In a statement posted to Twitter, London police say two people are currently being treated for smoke inhalation and they're waiting updates on further injuries.

Photos and video shared on social media show the tower block engulfed in flames.
"The whole building is on fire (and) spreading fast," witness Goran Karimi told CNN.
He said he saw people jumping from the building.

Grenfell Tower

The 24-story Grenfell Tower was built in the 1970s and recently subject to a $10.9 million redevelopment, according to property firm Rydon.

Close to Notting Hill, the tower block is around a five minute walk from the Latimer Road Underground station and near the Westfield shopping center in the west London suburbs.
According to property website RightMove, the average rent in the building is around $2,500 a month.

News is just now breaking.  This is all there is, save for live TV.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:
Fire safety experts warned as long ago as 1999 that the cladding used on buildings such as Grenfell Tower posed a deadly threat to hundreds of residents inside, it has emerged.

The experts, from industry and the firefighters’ union, predicted that such cladding could help drive any fire upwards to quickly engulf an entire building.

In a chilling premonition of what would happen 18 years later at Grenfell Tower - where at least at least 58 people are now feared to have been killed - Fire Brigades Union official Glyn Evans told MPs: “The problem with cladding is that it will, if it is able, spread fire and it will spread it vertically. If you get multistorey buildings you will get fire spread up the outside if the cladding will permit it.”

After hearing evidence from Mr Evans and others, a House of Commons committee concluded in early 2000 that the authorities could not afford to wait before taking action to tackle the risk.

It’s report stated: “We do not believe that it should take a serious fire in which many people are killed before all reasonable steps are taken towards minimising the risks.”

The report appears to have been one of several alarm bells rung over the safety of high rise buildings which went unheeded.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/warnings-deathtrap-high-rise-building-cladding-ignored-decades/

Governments and local councils around the world are now urgently looking at yheir own problems with "non compliance" with building and safety regulations, with many cases of non-compliant materials being used in high rise buildings across major cities..

In recent years there have been similar fires in apartment buildings in Melbourne (Docklands), Los Angeles, parts of Asia..   Probably luck, more than anything else, that the fatalities and casualties down in Melbourne were a lot lower than this week in London.

Combined wuth bureaucratic cutbacks, underfunding and undermanning of emergency services, and greedy building owners and shonky contractors, there are good reasons why the same thing will probably happen again.

There is no reason why the same thing won't happen in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or Adelaide --  despite Oz having some of the toughest building standards in the world..

http://www.smh.com.au/national/london-tower-fire-could-happen-here-australian-buildings-cloaked-in-flammable-cladding-20170615-gwrpfu.html

http://www.smh.com.au/world/london-fire-building-safety-under-the-spotlight-after-deadly-blaze-engulfs-grenfell-tower-20170614-gwrdky.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/london-inferno-alarm-raised-for-aussie-buildings/news-story/334b00825e305eb9faff421522f9e04f

It already happened in Melbourne.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/cladding-in-2014-melbourne-high-rise-blaze-also-used-in-grenfell-tower

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I thought it was interesting, although she's clearly very distressed.

She is. But she has a bloody valid point about Oxfam and the Red Cross.
Where the fuck are they?

Not a "valid point", at all there, re: Oxfam, Red Cross, et al...

After domestic disasters and large scale emergencies, there are specific charities nominated as combat 'first responder' charity/relief agencies to be first on the scene,  usually working by arrangement with the emergency services, gov't agencies and other charities..

They actually don't want every other charity turning out and getting in each others' way --  as that will actually slow operations down, rather than helping..   Over here, it is the Salvation Army, and/or certain other church-based chaities, who are the first responders;  with local service clubs and motels being used as refuges and resource centres.

I would suggest that you good peeps find out who the nominated "combat/first responder" charities for disasters in London actually are, before casting blame at random charity groups..

eddie wrote:Didge you're going to the basement as I'm not locking a thread to spoil it for others.  
You aren't owed an apology and you're just behaving like a toddler so go and sit in the sandpit.

A rule about other forums will be coming and everyone else here seems to have known and understood that discussing other forums is not tolerated.

Thank you, eds. I would be most disappointed if we couldn't discuss something that is important, concerning and topical??! As for didge, he cant post more than twice before swearing and calling names at someone. We shouldn't have to suffer that, particularly because I've warned about precisely these tendencies with him.

As to the fire, we know generally what happened. Vic is bringing up some good points: was it dereliction on the part of the council, or the central government; or was it simply greed on the part of some owners? It should be simple to determine what is on the law books, so we can answer the first question fairly quickly.

If public protections were eliminated (deregulation) we know who to blame...er, who to vote out of office. If they were not followed, we know who to prosecute. Most of all, we don't want to turn it into a blame game...maybe we should look at the construction industry/materials industry the way we look at the pharma industry: nothing gets into the market unless and until it is submitted to a battery of tests, and approved by a compliance unit similar to the Federal Drug Administration. That way nothing takes us as a surprise.

If this fire isn't a wake-up call, than lordy, lordy we ain't gonna make it.

Wolf, there are so many actual people who are there, on the scene, who say it is mostly the community helping out. The videos are all over YouTube and other places and disappearing fast too.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Didge you're going to the basement as I'm not locking a thread to spoil it for others.  
You aren't owed an apology and you're just behaving like a toddler so go and sit in the sandpit.

A rule about other forums will be coming and everyone else here seems to have known and understood that discussing other forums is not tolerated.

Thank you, eds.  I would be most disappointed if we couldn't discuss something that is important, concerning and topical??!  As for didge, he cant post more than twice before swearing and calling names at someone.  We shouldn't have to suffer that, particularly because I've warned about precisely these tendencies with him.

As to the fire, we know generally what happened.  Vic is bringing up some good points: was it dereliction on the part of the council, or the central government; or was it simply greed on the part of some owners?  It should be simple to determine what is on the law books, so we can answer the first question fairly quickly.  

If public protections were eliminated (deregulation) we know who to blame...er, who to vote out of office.  If they were not followed, we know who to prosecute.  Most of all, we don't want to turn it into a blame game...maybe we should look at the construction industry/materials industry the way we look at the pharma industry: nothing gets into the market unless and until it is submitted to a battery of tests, and approved by a compliance unit similar to the Federal Drug Administration.   That way nothing takes us as a surprise.

If this fire isn't a wake-up call, than lordy, lordy we ain't gonna make it.

Good overall post re the "blame game" - but what is for sure, the blame lies somewhere and I bet it'll either be buried like the dead or we will find out what it's all about: money.
Your last sentence is sadly, so very true.

eddie wrote:Good overall post re the "blame game" - but what is for sure, the blame lies somewhere and I bet it'll either be buried like the dead or we will find out what it's all about: money.
Your last sentence is sadly, so very true.

It's up to your Labour politicians, and people like sassy who are vocal and insistent that there be some response. For the last ten years Labour has acted like a whipped dog. They need to stand up and act like a loyal opposition, and stop feeling sorry for themselves.

If not them, who? You see what Tory gives you. It's not a privilege Labour has...it's a responsibility.

eddie wrote:Wolf, there are so many actual people who are there, on the scene, who say it is mostly the community helping out. The videos are all over YouTube and other places and disappearing fast too.

It still does nobody no good pointing the finger at random charities...

Where are the emergency co-ordinators ?

Whether it is the Fire Dept., the local Council, Police or a gov't agency covering Emergency responses, somebody should be running the show with such a large scale emergency response ?


Charities can't simply go into disaster areas blind, without knowing what is needed where..

Oxfam is a charity that usually works in foreign areas suffering droughts, famines, natural disasters..

Groups like the Red Cross and the St Jonhs Ambulance Service are usually invited in by the disaster coordinator..

People pointing the finger at random charities without finding out the responsibilities of each, simply haven't done their homework...

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

eddie wrote:Wolf, there are so many actual people who are there, on the scene, who say it is mostly the community helping out. The videos are all over YouTube and other places and disappearing fast too.

It still does nobody no good pointing the finger at random charities...

Where are the emergency co-ordinators ?

Whether it is the Fire Dept., the local Council, Police or a gov't agency covering Emergency responses, somebody should be running the show with such a large scale emergency response ?


Charities can't simply go into disaster areas blind, without knowing what is needed where..

Oxfam is a charity that usually works in foreign areas suffering droughts, famines, natural disasters..

Groups like the Red Cross and the St Jonhs Ambulance Service are usually invited in by the disaster coordinator..

People  pointing the finger at random charities without finding out the responsibilities of each, simply haven't done their homework...

Disaster areas are always chaotic!! And if local people can manage the chaos...?

I think they need to look at this fridge pretty soon because the conspiracy theories are all over the place. Some are saying that the building couldn't have gone up like that from a smallish fire.

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

What these people will need is money.   Somewhere decent to live and money to replace what material things they've lost and some compensation for lost loved ones.  Not boxes of cornflakes and panty pads.

The probably could do with new knickers or underpants though. It's things like that which people never think of.

Of course, but it's the amount that's being dropped off and donated. Silly amounts.

Raggamuffin wrote:I think they need to look at this fridge pretty soon because the conspiracy theories are all over the place. Some are saying that the building couldn't have gone up like that from a smallish fire.

I dont believe that anyone would go and pack a suitcase after finding a small fridge on fire after a fault... rather than getting some wet towels to throw over it to try to put fire out first... even throwing water at it would have been most peoples first reaction... not going to pack a suitcase...!

Sounds highly suspicious to me!!!

eddie wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

It still does nobody no good pointing the finger at random charities...

Where are the emergency co-ordinators ?

Whether it is the Fire Dept., the local Council, Police or a gov't agency covering Emergency responses, somebody should be running the show with such a large scale emergency response ?


Charities can't simply go into disaster areas blind, without knowing what is needed where..

Oxfam is a charity that usually works in foreign areas suffering droughts, famines, natural disasters..

Groups like the Red Cross and the St Jonhs Ambulance Service are usually invited in by the disaster coordinator..

People  pointing the finger at random charities without finding out the responsibilities of each, simply haven't done their homework...

Disaster areas are always chaotic!! And if local people can manage the chaos...?

There are protocols in disaster-scale emergency response...

And "chains of command" in place..

If locals are effectively handling things, then the scale isn't necessarily that that big, is it ?
But, that's a big 'if'..

IF the locals were effectively managing the necessary response,  than why would anyone be criticising random charities -- many of whom may have no direct respones, anyway (even though they may subsequently support the more significznt ones..).

Neither the local Council, nor the British government, are looking too good with their initial responses so far, are they ?  In many countries, both would have had emergency co-ordinators on the scene of such a karge incident within a day or two --  and here we are, five days later and people are complaining about the lack of council and government support and backup..

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I think they need to look at this fridge pretty soon because the conspiracy theories are all over the place. Some are saying that the building couldn't have gone up like that from a smallish fire.

I dont believe that anyone would go and pack a suitcase after finding a small fridge on fire after a fault... rather than getting some wet towels to throw over it to try to put fire out first... even throwing water at it would have been most peoples first reaction... not going to pack a suitcase...!

Sounds highly suspicious to me!!!

Well...it probably was not a well-packed suitcase. Like...I'll bet the socks didn't match.

Grenfell Tower cladding is banned in the UK, Chancellor says

The flammable cladding used at Grenfell Tower is not banned merely in the US and Europe but in the UK too, he claims

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-flammable-cladding-banned-in-uk-philip-hammond-germany-us-a7795696.html

GRENFELL TOWER – FROM BAD TO WORSE
Posted on May 29, 2013 by grenfellactiongroup

electric

An end may finally be in sight to the mysterious and distressing power surges that have bedevilled Grenfell Tower residents throughout the past month. However, decisive action was only taken yesterday after highly distressed residents descended en masse on the estate office to demand action. They had woken to find smoke issuing from various electrical appliances in their homes, including the light fixtures, and descended in panic to the estate office to demand help and assistance. Emergency electricians who attended later in the day were finally, it seems, able to identify the source of the problem. An emergency temporary electrical by-pass supply has been provided and the necessary follow–up works will be carried out in the near future.

It is very clear at this stage that the electrical supply to Grenfell Tower has been in a very dangerous condition for several weeks. It is equally clear that the authorities had been repeatedly warned of this but had failed to react with sufficient urgency and had failed to take adequate remedial measures.

As evidence of this we present the extract below from an email sent on 13th May by Shah Ahmed, Chair of the Grenfell Tower Leaseholders Association, to Robert Black at TMO and various RBKC councillors and TMO officers:

“Continuous Power Surges in Grenfell Tower

There have been two weeks of power surges in the building, most notably in the early hours of the morning and throughout the evening and night time. Electronic apparatus are seriously affected by these surges. Computers are turned on and off, lights continually flicker becoming very dim and extremely bright in the space of a few seconds.

On 11th May 2013 at 9:05pm we had numerous power surges in the space of a minute, and in that process my computer and monitor literally exploded with smoke seeping out from the back and the smell of burnt electronics filled our entire computer. My monitor also fused at the same time. When I called the TMO out of hours service the standard textbook response was given to us that I was the first one to report such a problem and I was made to feel like a fool reporting such an issue, which resulted in years of data being lost forever.

Please note if the power surges continue at Grenfell Tower, it would be very dangerous and costly because it is interfering with electric and electronic items in the household, including the telephone line, television, fridge, washing machine, computer etc”.

A NUMBER OF THINGS NEED TO HAPPEN NOW:

Grenfell Tower residents are demanding an emergency meeting with RBKC and TMO officers to fully explain what went wrong with the electrical supply, and why the TMO failed to respond with appropriate urgency. This meeting should be arranged as a matter of urgency.

Officers attending the meeting should be prepared to explain why electrical engineers who ordered the planned power cut in Grenfell Tower between 08:30-17:30 on Saturday 18th May failed to identify and rectify a serious and dangerous fault in the electrical supply at that time.

A single staircase with no natural light is the only emergency exit route from Grenfell Tower. The emergency lighting system in that stairwell should be thoroughly checked to ensure that neither the system itself, nor any of the individual battery packs, has been damaged by the power surges of recent weeks. If there is damage it should be immediately repaired as a matter of urgency.

A number of electrical appliances belonging to Grenfell Tower residents were damaged or destroyed by power surges in recent weeks, although the amount off such damage and the number of victims is not yet known. On the face of it either the TMO or its electrical contractors would appear to be liable, but so far the TMO has denied any liability. Liability for this damage must be ascertained as soon as possible and all residents whose property was damaged should be fully compensated, including those whose refrigerated food was spoilt during the planned power cut on 18th May.

RBKC councillors please take careful note of the above. We feel very strongly that there needs to be much closer scrutiny by TMO Technical Services Officers of the performance of contractors, particularly those supplying essential and emergency services, and much closer scrutiny by RBKC scrutiny committees of the TMO and its service delivery arrangements and monitoring.
STOP PRESS – BREAKING NEWS

Thursday 30th May 9.13am

Many residents in Grenfell Tower are extremely shocked and angry about what has happened and many of the people descending on the Estate Office yesterday morning were distressed and close to tears. It is a fact that many households in Grenfell Tower have now lost the majority of their electrical appliances (washing machines, computers, televisions, etc) and very few (if any) of these residents have any household insurance.

We want to know why the problem of the power surge was not taken seriously when it was first reported and why, as a result of this dangerous and negligent behaviour, many residents have had their health and safety placed at extreme risk, in addition to losing electrical appliances in their properties?

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/grenfell-tower-from-bad-to-worse/





AND YET AFTER THAT THEY STILL PUT BANNED CLADDING ON THE OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11




Also, the man who was unlucky enough to have his burst into flames ran from flat to flat trying to get people out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sassy wrote:Grenfell Tower cladding is banned in the UK, Chancellor says

The flammable cladding used at Grenfell Tower is not banned merely in the US and Europe but in the UK too, he claims

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-flammable-cladding-banned-in-uk-philip-hammond-germany-us-a7795696.html

Very intelligent man.    Precisely the same two questions I just asked.  

Original Quill wrote:If public protections were eliminated (deregulation) we know who to blame...er, who to vote out of office.  If they were not followed, we know who to prosecute.

What are the answers?  Which path was taken? That will determine where we go from here.

What was found to be the cause of the electrical power surges then sassy?

Tommy Monk wrote:What was found to be the cause of the electrical power surges then sassy?

Gd question. I can only find allegations of faulty wiring:

It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that it was the low social status of the inhabitants of the tower that left them vulnerable to this horror. That’s a serious charge, I know, but how else do we explain that residents who complained about fire hazards were ignored? The Grenfell Action Group residents’ association complained to the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation (KCTMO) — which manages Grenfell — about ‘terrifying power surges’ caused by ‘faulty wiring’. It predicted that only a ‘serious fire in a tower block’ would lead to KCTMO being ‘brought to justice’. It remains to be seen how neglectful KCTMO was, if it was at all, but it is profoundly concerning that residents say their complaints were ignored. Their worries ‘fell on deaf ears’, they say. It’s hard to imagine the residents of one of Kensington’s plusher, more pleasing-to-the-eye builds being treated like this.

Not very helpful.

Also sassy... your post says the electrical power surge problems were back in 2013...

I don't know when it was...the excerpt does not give a date for the complaint. But I was looking for complaints prior to the fire, so it could have been.

I imagine, from just reading about it, that the complaints were on-going...2013 included.

I was referring to sassys post...


And that type of power surge is almost certainly down to a fault occurring on the supply network somewhere outside of the main intake point of the building... so is the responsibility of the supply network company in that area...

Tommy Monk wrote:I was referring to sassys post...

And that type of power surge is almost certainly down to a fault occurring on the supply network somewhere outside of the main intake point of the building... so is the responsibility of the supply network company in that area...

Well the issue right now is cause-in-fact...what caused the fire? If it was a power surge, then the authorities will have to dig deeper to determine whee the surge occurred, and how/why. Then a determination of proximate cause may be made.

The authorities need to get hold of the somalian man from the flat where fire allegedly started and start asking him some tough questions... plus fully investigate him, his flat and his movements etc

Does anyone actually know where he is...?


It is only the say so of this alleged neighbour that he knocked on their door telling the fridge fire story, and that he had a packed suitcase/large bag of clothes with him...

Is any of that even true...?


It all sounds wrong to me...!


If someone knocked on my door saying such, then i would be telling them that they werent going anywhere, but that we would be first having a go at looking to see about trying to put any fire out, as well as making as much noise as possible to all direct neighbours to alert them and for them to also start assisting in both the attempt at putting fire out and for the others to start alerting the next nearest lot of neighbours etc... so as to then get even more help tackling fire and even more involved in raising alerts to more neighbours, and so on, etc...


A small fire would have been easy to put out by somali man... it couldnt have been that bad that he had time to pack a suitcase after discovering it... and then still not that bad that nobody else had noticed smoke or the smell of burning or noticed the sound of the heat/smoke detectors that would have been going off in his flat for quite some time from when fire first started...


The more i think about it the more i think it is a bullshit story!!!

I have been away but have watched this on the news.
I have to say it breaks my heart to see so much devastation. seemingly caused by shoddy materials which were known not to be safe when used in high rise buildings.
The £5000 government grant offered to each victim is an insult...what is that supposed to do?

Now there is talk that there is a cover up re the building material used in the claddings, which may have not been even legal.
Corruption and greed seems to be the cause of this disaster, irregardless of where the fire actually did start....which seems to be another mystery.

Apologies if I am just repeating what others have already said, I haven't had time to read the thread.

Tommy Monk wrote:The authorities need to get hold of the somalian man from the flat where fire allegedly started and start asking him some tough questions... plus fully investigate him, his flat and his movements etc

I was wondering where this supposed had disappeared to.
How do you know he's Somalian and why should he need to be investigated for his "movements"?

I thought that would be obvious...

Tommy Monk wrote:I thought that would be obvious...

You mean because he's Somalian?
Or do you mean because the fire had supposedly started in his flat so that's why they need to check his movements?

Perhaps he worked for the Tories.

Perhaps he worked for labour... and did the fire to try to make the torys look bad...

Tommy Monk wrote:Perhaps he worked for labour... and did the fire to try to make the torys look bad...

You didn't answer my questions.

Maybe because i'm a cvnt and a sack of shit...

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe because i'm a cvnt and a sack of shit...

Never have truer words beeen spoken

And Tom, there is no conspiracy  theory.
The most plausable would be the fire was started by the conservatives to deflect attention away from the omnishambolic clusterfuck May and her cohorts have made of the GE, Brexit and austerity.

Andy, you are a geranium, there's no other word for you !

What the fuck are you dribbling on about Nicko?
 I said THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY  THEORY.

Old age and heat catching up with you?

Hand shandy... you shouldnt be spending so much time on here when there is some pebble dash down the back of the pan in trap 3 that needs you to start scrubbing off...

What is your lastest Conspiracy  theory Monkey?
The tower block didn't  burn down and it was a fsked photoshop image?
One of the flames coming out of a window on tbe 19th looks odd.

Andy, I never said there was a conspriracy, get your facts right dick head.

I dont have a conspiracy theory...

I try to stick with facts...

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe because i'm a cvnt and a sack of shit...

Ok I do apologise for that. I wasn't in a good mood that day.

Tommy Monk wrote:

I dont have a conspiracy theory...

I try to stick with facts...

A theory is the story of the facts. If you don't have a theory, you don't have story.

eddie wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe because i'm a cvnt and a sack of shit...

Ok I do apologise for that. I wasn't in a good mood that day.

I accept your apology... thank you.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

I dont have a conspiracy theory...

I try to stick with facts...

A theory is the story of the facts.  If you don't have a theory, you don't have story.

Not quite... there can be many different theories... but only the collection of facts make the true story...!

eddie wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:I thought that would be obvious...

You mean because he's Somalian?
Or do you mean because the fire had supposedly started in his flat so that's why they need to check his movements?

Perhaps he worked for the Tories.

Of course it must be investigated. Anyone could say that a fridge caught fire, but they need to make sure that actually happened and why.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

You mean because he's Somalian?
Or do you mean because the fire had supposedly started in his flat so that's why they need to check his movements?

Perhaps he worked for the Tories.

Of course it must be investigated. Anyone could say that a fridge caught fire, but they need to make sure that actually happened and why.

Exactly!

But in this case, it wasnt even the somalian occupant of flat where fire allegedly started who reported fire and gave the fridge story to authorities... it was the neighbour who said the story... after saying he knocked on their door and told them that, and that he had a packed suitcase in his hand...!


Now... starting with the flat where fire allegedly started... the forensics will be in there doing thorough investigation... the occupants identity/background/known movements will also be getting looked into... they will obviously want to question him in a formal interview... if he can be found that is... can it be confirmed by cctv or other means that he was even there in the flat that night...?

Can it be confirmed that he left after fire started with a suitcase , as neighbour claims...?

Where did he go?

Where is suitcase now?

What was in it ?

What does forensic analysis of suitcase show might have been in it?

Did he drive away from block in his car?

What does cctv and phone signal show where he went?

Does that correspond to what he says?

Forensic exam of car... what does that reveal?



That is just for starters...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Of course it must be investigated. Anyone could say that a fridge caught fire, but they need to make sure that actually happened and why.

Exactly!

But in this case, it wasnt even the somalian occupant of flat where fire allegedly started who reported fire and gave the fridge story to authorities... it was the neighbour who said the story... after saying he knocked on their door and told them that, and that he had a packed suitcase in his hand...!


Now... starting with the flat where fire allegedly started... the forensics will be in there doing thorough investigation... the occupants identity/background/known movements will also be getting looked into... they will obviously want to question him in a formal interview... if he can be found that is... can it be confirmed by cctv or other means that he was even there in the flat that night...?

Can it be confirmed that he left after fire started with a suitcase , as neighbour claims...?

Where did he go?

Where is suitcase now?

What was in it ?

What does forensic analysis of suitcase show might have been in it?

Did he drive away from block in his car?

What does cctv and phone signal show where he went?

Does that correspond to what he says?

Forensic exam of car... what does that reveal?



That is just for starters...!!!

I haven't really checked out the story Tommy, but they can't just take someone's word for it that a fridge caught fire. This was a massive fire, and by all accounts it should have been contained.

There are many levels that need to be investigated.  What started the fire?  But also, what accelerated it.  Why couldn't they put it out?  Is the siding per building code?  Are their building codes?  Who inspected it?  Were there pay-offs?

The death toll is now up to 79. I don't think they can say for sure how many died until they can get into all the flats.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-rises-to-79-police-say

Raggamuffin wrote:The death toll is now up to 79. I don't think they can say for sure how many died until they can get into all the flats.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-rises-to-79-police-say

Oh God...it goes up daily.

I don't think the protestors were being fair when they accused the police of a cover up re the number of dead.
I'm sure they know there are many more, but till they actually find the bodies they cant be counted as dead.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The death toll is now up to 79. I don't think they can say for sure how many died until they can get into all the flats.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-rises-to-79-police-say

Oh God...it goes up daily.

I don't think the protestors were being fair when they accused the police of a cover up re the number of dead.
I'm sure they know there are many more, but till they actually find the bodies they cant be counted as dead.

I agree. The low number they gave at first seemed unrealistic, but they were presumably just counting the people they knew for sure had died. It has only just happened, and they need to search the flats before they make assumptions.