Massive West London Apartment fire

by Original Quill Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:23 am

First topic message reminder :

London fire: fears of people trapped as major blaze engulfs tower block

Massive West London Apartment fire - Page 4 Am980-85-walnut-google-maps

(CNN)A huge fire has engulfed a 24-story apartment block in West London.

Around 200 firefighters and 20 fire trucks have been deployed to tackle the blaze as rescue workers try to evacuate the building in Lancaster West Estate in North Kensington, London Fire Brigade said.

Massive West London Apartment fire - Page 4 Screen%20shot%202017-06-13%20at%2073745%20pm

The fire broke out before daybreak local time Wednesday. In a statement posted to Twitter, London police say two people are currently being treated for smoke inhalation and they're waiting updates on further injuries.

Photos and video shared on social media show the tower block engulfed in flames.
"The whole building is on fire (and) spreading fast," witness Goran Karimi told CNN.
He said he saw people jumping from the building.

Grenfell Tower

The 24-story Grenfell Tower was built in the 1970s and recently subject to a $10.9 million redevelopment, according to property firm Rydon.

Close to Notting Hill, the tower block is around a five minute walk from the Latimer Road Underground station and near the Westfield shopping center in the west London suburbs.
According to property website RightMove, the average rent in the building is around $2,500 a month.

News is just now breaking. This is all there is, save for live TV.

by eddie Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:05 pm

Please read this as it may throw some new light on this

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21120-grenfell-fire-action-group-warned-of-possible-risks

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:06 pm

I always used Fire Cause Analysis, in Berkeley, CA. http://fcafire.com/

They are associated with the one of the best universities in the world, and they are complete in that they provide investigation, forensic services and laboratory analysis:

Fire Cause Analysis (FCA) provides fire investigation, forensic engineering, multi-disciplinary engineering, and scientific evaluations to clients in the insurance and legal communities. With the combined expertise of fire investigators, fire scientists, and electrical, mechanical, and fire protection engineers, FCA provides in-depth analyses rooted in established scientific principles.

by eddie Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:I always used Fire Cause Analysis, in Berkeley, CA. http://fcafire.com/

They are associated with the one of the best universities in the world, and they are complete in that they provide investigation, forensic services and laboratory analysis:

Fire Cause Analysis (FCA) provides fire investigation, forensic engineering, multi-disciplinary engineering, and scientific evaluations to clients in the insurance and legal communities. With the combined expertise of fire investigators, fire scientists, and electrical, mechanical, and fire protection engineers, FCA provides in-depth analyses rooted in established scientific principles.

Quill something for your perusal

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21120-grenfell-fire-action-group-warned-of-possible-risks

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:14 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I always used Fire Cause Analysis, in Berkeley, CA. http://fcafire.com/

They are associated with the one of the best universities in the world, and they are complete in that they provide investigation, forensic services and laboratory analysis:

Quill something for your perusal

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21120-grenfell-fire-action-group-warned-of-possible-risks

I've already read it, thoroughly. It provides advance notice, not only to the authorities but to the owners for the building. This will be important in the forewarning, or notice issue, in the inevitable litigation. Of course, they will still have to provide proof that what they were warning about is what caused or contributed to the fire.

It will also be important in any criminal investigation and/or trial, as well as informative for any legislative considerations.

Most importantly, it shows the lawmakers and press that a movement is, and was already afoot. Politics is the most important concern for anyone who wants to keep his job.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Quill... I have already posted that i was involved in a job last year on a tower block where we were installing new lighting and mains power in the communal areas... but where there was also work going on to the outside of building by another company who were fitting similar/same cladding...

And this was done using a layer of rockwall then a layer of some hard board plastic looking sheeting type stuff, and i think that it was covered in a layer of plaster (rendered), and then painted...

Rockwall is full of air... bit like candy floss... and is used as insulation all over the place... lofts, inbetween plasterboard walls and under floors etc...

The Telegraph News wrote:
What is cladding, and why can it be a fire risk?

Adam Boult
15 JUNE 2017

Following the fire that devastated Grenfell Tower in west London this week, leaving at least 17 dead and many more injured, questions have arisen over the cladding that was fitted to the exterior of the tower block in 2015.

Angus Law, BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering at the University of Edinburgh said: "Early media reports suggest that this event has similarities with other fires that have occurred recently around the world; it appears that the external cladding has significantly contributed to the spread of fire at Grenfell Tower."

What was the cladding made of?

The cladding was installed by Harley Curtain Wall Ltd, which was paid £3million for the job. Company director Ray Bailey said that they had used a common Aluminium Composite Material (ACM) panels which are a commonly used product in the refurbishment industry.

Why had the cladding been installed?

Cladding is used in part to insulate buildings, and also in part to improve their appearance.

A 2014 planning document produced ahead of the works carried out on Grenfell Tower read: “Due to its height the tower is visible from the adjacent Avondale Conservation Area to the south and the Ladbroke Conservation Area to the east.

“The changes to the existing tower will improve its appearance especially when viewed from the surrounding area.

"The reclad materials and new windows will represent a significant improvement to the environmental performance of the building and to its physical appearance.

"The design of the scheme as a whole has fully considered policy requirements, expectations and aspirations, fully taking into consideration the immediate and wider surroundings, particularly focussing on creating a wider environment that works as a coherent place."

How might cladding have contributed to the spread of fire?

Experts said that the cladding could act like a "chimney" for the flames by allowing the fire to spread upwards through the gaps between the cladding and the building walls.

Geoff Wilkinson, managing director of Wilkinson Construction Consultants, wrote in the Daily Telegraph: "These plastic or metal panels are installed to protect a building from weather or improve its appearance, but between them and the wall there is a cavity where rain can run down.

"In the event of a fire this acts like a chimney, drawing the hot air up through itself and making the flames burn brighter. In this way fire [travels] all the way up from the base of the building to the very top.

"Once spread via cladding, the fire could have caught on curtains blowing through windows left open on a hot summer’s night."

Has cladding been associated with other fires?

Matthew Needham-Laing, an architect who is head of construction at Katten Law UK, said that the first known cladding fire in the UK was in 1991 and there had been concerns in the industry about its fire safety for a number of years.

He said: "This is not a shock, the problems with cladding have been known about and talked about for a number of years and hopefully this will at least make people listen."

Mr Wilkinson said: "In Knowsley Heights in Manchester in 1991, fire spread in a way no one had predicted via the decorative cladding on the outside of the building.

"Something similar happened in Irvine in 1999, after which new regulations were put out which limited the types of cladding which could be used."

There have been fires which spread in high-rise buildings in France, the UAE and Australia that had similar cladding, according to the BBC's Newsnight programme.

How many other buildings have similar cladding?

There are thought to be in the region of 30,000 buildings in the UK fitted with cladding similar to that on Grenfell Tower

Will there be a review into use of cladding?

Mike Penning, a former fire minister, has called for an urgent review, saying "We need to expedite this as far as possible - this cladding is used extensively in the UK and abroad."

The article says used to insulate buildings and for environment reasons... a lick of paint would improve the look of building if that was all that was needed...

On the job i was on last year, they used rockwall as the primary insulating layer, then put a thin layer of plasterboard/plastic/fibre looking sheet boarding over it, then a layer of render plaster, then painted it... i didnt see any shiny aluminium anywhere in any of it...!!!

I cant say what was used in grenfell cladding...

by eddie Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Here is Boris, taking fire safety very seriously when he was London Mayor

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I cant say what was used in grenfell cladding...

Apparently, it was plastic cladding. It provides thermal insulation, in addition to looks.

But....it' also provides channels for fire to pass from floor to floor. Any molecule that is heated agitates, and the material thins out, and thus weighs less, causing it to rise. If you've ever watched a pot of boiling water, you've observed this. In a fire, any channel that permits the fire to rise will be favored (by the fire)...because heat wants to rise.

In a tower (or as y'all call it, apartment block), all efforts in the design are made with a mind to keeping fire on the one floor. It looks as if this cladding was a free ride for this fire.

As I've said above, I've never seen a tower as fully engaged as that one was. Someone majorly f..ked up.

by eddie Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:Apparently, it was cladding. It provides thermal insulation, in addition to looks.

But....it' also provides channels for fire to pass from floor to floor. Any molecule that is heated thins out, and thus weighs less, causing it to rise. If you've ever watched a pot of boiling water, you've observed this. In a fire, any channel that permits the fire to rise will be favored (by the fire)...because heat wants to rise.

In a tower (or as y'all call it, apartment block), all efforts in the design are made with a mind to keeping fire on the one floor. It looks as if this cladding was a free ride for the fire.

As I've said above, I've never seen a tower as fully engaged as that one was. Someone majorly f..ked up.

Hahahaha I did that with the word "lift" earlier - letting you 'muricans know that I meant "elevator".
Actually we call them "tower blocks" not "apartments" (perhaps the rich call them apartment blocks as tower blocks are associated with the council aka the poor) anyway, you are right about the cladding as I also stated this in an earlier post and Tommy also explained it.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:39 pm

Here we call them 'high-rise apartments' or 'tower apartments'. Donald Trump owns one, called 'Trump Tower', in Manhattan.

For us, a 'block' is a square of streets, as in that store is around the block.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:46 pm

Lucky quill is here to tell us that heat rises...

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:49 pm

eddie wrote:Here is Boris, taking fire safety very seriously when he was London Mayor

This is typical of conservative thinking. They think in terms where a 'regulation' is a sort of nuisance. I recently was speaking with a cognitive linguist from Berkeley, and he wondered if deregulation would be a campaign slogan if people called them 'public protections'.

"Oh sure, let's get rid of all those 'public protections'." Doesn't sound so sweet that way, eh? Particularly, in the wake of a tragedy such as this.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Lucky quill is here to tell us that heat rises...

Haha...I get your cynical disappointment. Razz

But sometimes you have to break it down, to where people see the connection of ideas. Like...why are passages up walls so dangerous?

Obviously, in this case, someone didn't do the requisite thinking. So my point is made in the very example before us. Twisted Evil

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:01 pm

The cladding of buildings is to meet environmentaly friendly green targets...

Without the cladding the fire would not have caused such devastation and everyone would still be alive and majority would also still have theier homes intact...

by Original Quill Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The cladding of buildings is to meet environmentaly friendly green targets...

Without the cladding the fire would not have caused such devastation and everyone would still be alive and majority would also still have theier homes intact...

Who cares? The lawsuit will still lie. The criminal liability will still lie. Perhaps, now, you see the value of those liberals who still think, and don't just parrot tory slogans and catch-phrases. Problem-solving is not just welfare, it is life-saving as well.

Gotta problem? Get a problem-solver. Even if it is environmental, you can't fix it the old capitalist way...least money, least bother. Now you see it...you lost Auntie Em because you didn't apply some thinking. Massive West London Apartment fire - Page 4 2190311264

Massive West London Apartment fire - Page 4 2190311264

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:39 pm

The leftie liberals are the ones responsible for throwing vast sums of money at these environmentaly friendly improvements to all these buildings without thinking things through about how it turns buildings into tinder boxes ready to go up in flames killing almost everyone inside...

And now add the cost of having to do all the buildings again properly... to put right the incompetent mess that they left behind...

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The leftie liberals are the ones responsible for throwing vast sums of money at these environmentaly friendly improvements to all these buildings without thinking things through about how it turns buildings into tinder boxes ready to go up in flames killing almost everyone inside...

And now add the cost of having to do all the buildings again properly... to put right the incompetent mess that they left behind...

You stupid disgusting son of a bitch, that building was done up LAST YEAR by a CONSERVATIVE COUNCIL after they were told NOT TO USE THE CHEAPEST BID WHICH THEY DID ANYWAY to make it look better for rich people to look at and after experts warned the cladding was a fire hazard (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell). You are truly filth CHILDREN DIED IN THAT FIRE IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND RICH BASTARDS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM. May you rot in hell.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:01 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The leftie liberals are the ones responsible for throwing vast sums of money at these environmentaly friendly improvements to all these buildings without thinking things through about how it turns buildings into tinder boxes ready to go up in flames killing almost everyone inside...

And now add the cost of having to do all the buildings again properly... to put right the incompetent mess that they left behind...

You stupid disgusting son of a bitch, that building was done up LAST YEAR by a CONSERVATIVE COUNCIL after they were told NOT TO USE THE CHEAPEST BID WHICH THEY DID ANYWAY to make it look better for rich people to look at and after experts warned the cladding was a fire hazard (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell). You are truly filth CHILDREN DIED IN THAT FIRE IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND RICH BASTARDS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM. May you rot in hell.

Wow the abuse above was so unwarranted and only due to his view its lefty liberals. Well in reality its both left and right, as this has been a problem highlighted for many years. You need to understand its not aceptable to hate as you do, people having different views to you.

I suggest you appologise to Tommy, as he was partly right and as your words are what is disgusting

Experts have been raising concerns for the last 30 years that building regulations concerning fire are not sufficient, especially surrounding fire escapes and the use of cladding to make buildings more energy efficient.

Until 1986 all buildings in London fell under the London Building Acts which ensured that external walls must have at least one hour of fire resistance to prevent flames from spreading between flats or entering inside.

But that stipulation was scrapped and from the mid 80s materials on outer walls did not have to be non-combustible, allowing builders to start installing dangerous cladding despite warnings from fire safety chiefs.
Nearly 20 years ago, following a fire at a tower block in Irvine in Ayrshire, MPs were warned by the Fire Safety Development Group that cladding can: ‘contribute to the fire, release toxic chemicals and drip plastic on people trying to fight the fire.’

Ronnie King, secretary of the All-Party Parliamentary Group Fire Safety & Rescue Group said: “We have been saying for years that the regulations need to be changed. But there has been no effort to improve anything because everyone believes there are less fires nowadays, so there was no will. Why would you increase the burden of regulation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/london-fire-latest-death-toll-set-rise-amid-grim-search-grenfell/

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:06 pm

Truth hurts doesn't it fucktard, but not half as much as the flames licking round those people hurt.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:09 pm

sassy wrote:Truth hurts doesn't it fucktard, but not half as much as the flames licking round those people hurt.

I just showed you that for 30 years both Tory and Labour Governments did not heed warnings, did not change policies and continued to allow this lagging to be used.
Tommy blamed half the problem when the full problem is both left and right here.
The fact you used those who have died to attack Tommy is what is disgusting and hateful and as seen you live by hate.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:19 pm

Thorin wrote:
sassy wrote:Truth hurts doesn't it fucktard, but not half as much as the flames licking round those people hurt.

I just showed you that for 30 years both Tory and Labour Governments did not heed warnings, did not change policies and continued to allow this lagging to be used.
Tommy blamed half the problem when the full problem is both left and right here.
The fact you used those who have died to attack Tommy is what is disgusting and hateful and as seen you live by hate.

"Used those who have died to attack Tommy" TOMMY USED THEM TO ATTACK THE LEFT YOU FUCKING RETARD

AND WHY HAVE YOU GOT TWO ACCOUNTS, DIDGE AND THORIN, OR IS IT YOU ARE ADMITTING TO BEING SCHIZOPHRENIC, AND DON'T EVEN PRETEND THEY AREN'T BOTH YOU.

73 Tory landlords voted down propsals to reform the regulations. That was this government you idiot.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:22 pm

sassy wrote:
Thorin wrote:

I just showed you that for 30 years both Tory and Labour Governments did not heed warnings, did not change policies and continued to allow this lagging to be used.
Tommy blamed half the problem when the full problem is both left and right here.
The fact you used those who have died to attack Tommy is what is disgusting and hateful and as seen you live by hate.

"Used those who have died to attack Tommy" TOMMY USED THEM TO ATTACK THE LEFT YOU FUCKING RETARD

AND WHY HAVE YOU GOT TWO ACCOUNTS, DIDGE AND THORIN, OR IS IT YOU ARE ADMITTING TO BEING SCHIZOPHRENIC, AND DON'T EVEN PRETEND THEY AREN'T BOTH YOU.

Are you not doing the same by attacking the right also?

That makes you equivalent to Tommy by blame. When as seen many have failed over the years to heed warnings. That means many are culpable to blame.

So by your methodology, that makes you as bad as him.

We then as seen are exposed to more of your hatred.

I have one account, I did have an old account that was reopened when I joined again, which I could not do, only the admin team could do. That account has now been closed again

Seriously, you need to stop hating so much

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:27 pm

You bloody liar, it's still there

1 avatar Didge 2016-06-18 Mon May 29, 2017 1:14 pm

2437 Send private message

And it shows you used it on 29 May. Bloody Pinocchio.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:28 pm

And here is the list of Tory landlords who voted against making rented property fit for human habitation

https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/full-list-landlord-tory-mps-who-voted-against-making-properties-fit-human-habitation-1537725

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:30 pm

sassy wrote:You bloody liar, it's still there

1 avatar Didge 2016-06-18 Mon May 29, 2017 1:14 pm

2437 Send private message

And it shows you used it on 29 May. Bloody Pinocchio.

I am not lying at all as its blocked

Like I said its an old account

I suggest you ask the admin team and they will tell you the same

So you really have ended up with egg on your face again Sassy Laughing

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:31 pm

This is hate, this is you:

Massive West London Apartment fire - Page 4 GNZZEYA1

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:33 pm

sassy wrote:And here is the list of Tory landlords who voted against making rented property fit for human habitation

https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/full-list-landlord-tory-mps-who-voted-against-making-properties-fit-human-habitation-1537725

Now I dont back the Tories and have not since the referendum to leave the EU, as I back remaining.
Now i condemn the Tories for voting this down and as seen it will come back to haunt them
I see there side also on this, but what should be done is a limit on rents also, so the view below does not cut it. You though seem to have ignore the years Labour were in power and did were as culable

One of the Tory MPs who rejected the amendment, Marcus Jones, said that the proposed fines of up to £30,000 ($43,000), would raise rents. He said: "Of course we believe that all homes should be of a decent standard and all tenants should have a safe place to live regardless of tenure, but local authorities already have strong and effective powers to deal with poor quality and safe accommodation and we expect them to use them."

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:34 pm

sassy wrote:This is hate, this is you:

So a blank picture lol

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:41 pm

That's not blank. And that's not fury on behalf of children who have suffered a terrible death. That's just hate because that's what you are, what you always willl be and what you can't change. All the smalzy video's, all the pretend apologies, all the obsequious snaky oily sickening posts can't hide it. We know what you are.

And if you can't read it, here's the original in all it un-glory

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t7680-ukip-magazine-brands-gay-pride-march-parade-of-depravity#160870

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:46 pm

sassy wrote:That's not blank. And that's not fury on behalf of children who have suffered a terrible death. That's just hate because that's what you are, what you always willl be and what you can't change. All the smalzy video's, all the pretend apologies, all the obsequious snaky oily sickening posts can't hide it. We know what you are.

You failed to post it right, as its come up blank.
So you think to fight hate (even though I am not hateful) is to be hateful
Well that shows up what a flawed reasoning you have to tackle hate
That places your reasoning along side the likes of the Britain's First
They have the same reasoning

Go figure

I mean and know you and irn cannot go a day without being hateful spouting the funniest vendetta going. I just laugh to be honest, if this is what keeps you occupied daily. Love the fact you both want to start a violent revolution, could not stop laughing. As this is a prime example of the Far left not respecting our democratic process and want to force your views by violence onto everyone else.

Priceless

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:48 pm

The only thing priceless dickhead, is how easily you are bought and paid for.

by Guest Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:50 pm

sassy wrote:The only thing priceless dickhead, is how easily you are bought and paid for.

lol so just yet more immature insults

Priceless

Anything else sassy? Or do you need to get more angry and wish unimaginable pain to others, as you did to Tommy, through burning in a Christian hell.

There was me thinking you were against Torture. Are you saying you back torture now?

by HoratioTarr Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:59 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The leftie liberals are the ones responsible for throwing vast sums of money at these environmentaly friendly improvements to all these buildings without thinking things through about how it turns buildings into tinder boxes ready to go up in flames killing almost everyone inside...

And now add the cost of having to do all the buildings again properly... to put right the incompetent mess that they left behind...

You stupid disgusting son of a bitch, that building was done up LAST YEAR by a CONSERVATIVE COUNCIL after they were told NOT TO USE THE CHEAPEST BID WHICH THEY DID ANYWAY to make it look better for rich people to look at and after experts warned the cladding was a fire hazard (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell). You are truly filth CHILDREN DIED IN THAT FIRE IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND RICH BASTARDS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM. May you rot in hell.

The same cladding has been used all over the country. Not just Conservative areas but Labour too...Camden and Newham to name two. So it's a bit daft to try and score points here regarding who is the worst.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:43 am

Thorin wrote:
sassy wrote:Truth hurts doesn't it fucktard, but not half as much as the flames licking round those people hurt.

I just showed you that for 30 years both Tory and Labour Governments did not heed warnings, did not change policies and continued to allow this lagging to be used.
Tommy blamed half the problem when the full problem is both left and right here.
The fact you used those who have died to attack Tommy is what is disgusting and hateful and as seen you live by hate.

The outer walls of old concrete tower blocks are fully fire resistant... when left alone... which they were... until green environmental targets were introduced that forced requirement for cladding...

Not that any tower block residents who i know have ever said that their flats were cold and they needed insulation on the outside to keep the heat in so they could use less central heating etc... in fact it has always been the opposite where they say that its always warm and how they hardly ever have to have the heating on and always have windows open...!!!

One of my friends always had his windows open so much that he once found that pigeons had started nesting on top of his kitchen cupboards!!!

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:54 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
sassy wrote:

You stupid disgusting son of a bitch, that building was done up LAST YEAR by a CONSERVATIVE COUNCIL after they were told NOT TO USE THE CHEAPEST BID WHICH THEY DID ANYWAY to make it look better for rich people to look at and after experts warned the cladding was a fire hazard (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell). You are truly filth CHILDREN DIED IN THAT FIRE IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND RICH BASTARDS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM. May you rot in hell.

The same cladding has been used all over the country. Not just Conservative areas but Labour too...Camden and Newham to name two. So it's a bit daft to try and score points here regarding who is the worst.

The job i was involved in last year was Greenwich council borough... rockwall, some plastic/fibre looking sheet panels, then a thin skim of plaster/render, then a lick of paint... all romanians putting it up (badly)...

by Original Quill Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:59 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
sassy wrote:

You stupid disgusting son of a bitch, that building was done up LAST YEAR by a CONSERVATIVE COUNCIL after they were told NOT TO USE THE CHEAPEST BID WHICH THEY DID ANYWAY to make it look better for rich people to look at and after experts warned the cladding was a fire hazard (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell). You are truly filth CHILDREN DIED IN THAT FIRE IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND RICH BASTARDS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM. May you rot in hell.

The same cladding has been used all over the country. Not just Conservative areas but Labour too...Camden and Newham to name two. So it's a bit daft to try and score points here regarding who is the worst.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree to suppose councils made this decision. Someone in the central government did the certification of materials and process, and wrote the standards down for all to borrow. And let's see...central government...that would be Tory lately, wouldn't it?

It's got the obvious smell of conservative cost cutting and devil-may-care concern for lives. Conservatives live for personal, individual wealth, not the general good. There's a unique congruency here.

And tommy...you think you're shifting the blame to say that environmental programs forced this kind of defect? You're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. The environmental programs exist for sound, public protection reasons as well. Labour could have done it thoroughly, efficiently, and succeeded...something Tories rarely do. That's because, while Tories are counting their own money, lefties actually care for public protections, and for doing it right.

Boris and his government killed and injured the people in that apartment block, as sure as he lit the match. Can't deny it...it happened on Tory watch. But Boris'll just lie, lie, deny, lie. Read my book, Why Elephants Lie...this is a paradigm case.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:16 am

I don't see the point of cladding anyway. It seems a waste of money.

Is it certain it was the cladding? Perhaps the ceilings conducted the fire or something.

by nicko Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 am

Stop all the arguing about whose to blame and why, the blame must lie wth one person who manufactured and sold the cladding and knowing or not knowing that it WAS NOT FIREPROOF !!!

by HoratioTarr Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:18 am

Original Quill wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

The same cladding has been used all over the country. Not just Conservative areas but Labour too...Camden and Newham to name two. So it's a bit daft to try and score points here regarding who is the worst.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree to suppose councils made this decision. Someone in the central government did the certification of materials and process, and wrote the standards down for all to borrow. And let's see...central government...that would be Tory lately, wouldn't it?

It's got the obvious smell of conservative cost cutting and devil-may-care concern for lives. Conservatives live for personal, individual wealth, not the general good. There's a unique congruency here.

And tommy...you think you're shifting the blame to say that environmental programs forced this kind of defect? You're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. The environmental programs exist for sound, public protection reasons as well. Labour could have done it thoroughly, efficiently, and succeeded...something Tories rarely do. That's because, while Tories are counting their own money, lefties actually care for public protections, and for doing it right.

Boris and his government killed and injured the people in that apartment block, as sure as he lit the match. Can't deny it...it happened on Tory watch. But Boris'll just lie, lie, deny, lie. Read my book, Why Elephants Lie...this is a paradigm case.

Local government
Councils make and carry out decisions on local services. Many parts of England have 2 tiers of local government: county councils and district, borough or city councils.
In some parts of the country, there’s just one tier of local government providing all the functions, known as a ‘unitary authority’. This can be a city, borough or county council – or it may just be called ‘council’. As well as these, many areas also have parish or town councils.

Many parts of England have 2 tiers of local government:

county councils
district, borough or city councils
In some parts of the country, there’s just 1 (unitary) tier of local government providing all the local services. The 3 main types are:

unitary authorities in shire areas
London boroughs
metropolitan boroughs
County councils
These are responsible for services across the whole of a county, like:

education
transport
planning
fire and public safety
social care
libraries
waste management
trading standards
District, borough and city councils
These cover a smaller area than county councils. They’re usually responsible for services like:

rubbish collection
recycling
Council Tax collections
housing
planning applications

https://www.gov.uk/government/how-government-works

by eddie Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:29 pm

Let's not forget this thread is about real people....this man lost his brother and stayed on the phone with him until he died

Upsetting viewing.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:04 pm

The EU made the rules...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/817651/london-fire-grenfell-tower-block-cladding-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

by Original Quill Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:02 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think you're barking up the wrong tree to suppose councils made this decision. Someone in the central government did the certification of materials and process, and wrote the standards down for all to borrow. And let's see...central government...that would be Tory lately, wouldn't it?

It's got the obvious smell of conservative cost cutting and devil-may-care concern for lives. Conservatives live for personal, individual wealth, not the general good. There's a unique congruency here.

And tommy...you think you're shifting the blame to say that environmental programs forced this kind of defect? You're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. The environmental programs exist for sound, public protection reasons as well. Labour could have done it thoroughly, efficiently, and succeeded...something Tories rarely do. That's because, while Tories are counting their own money, lefties actually care for public protections, and for doing it right.

Boris and his government killed and injured the people in that apartment block, as sure as he lit the match. Can't deny it...it happened on Tory watch. But Boris'll just lie, lie, deny, lie. Read my book, Why Elephants Lie...this is a paradigm case.

Local government
Councils make and carry out decisions on local services. Many parts of England have 2 tiers of local government: county councils and district, borough or city councils.
In some parts of the country, there’s just one tier of local government providing all the functions, known as a ‘unitary authority’. This can be a city, borough or county council – or it may just be called ‘council’. As well as these, many areas also have parish or town councils.

Many parts of England have 2 tiers of local government:

county councils
district, borough or city councils
In some parts of the country, there’s just 1 (unitary) tier of local government providing all the local services. The 3 main types are:

unitary authorities in shire areas
London boroughs
metropolitan boroughs
County councils
These are responsible for services across the whole of a county, like:

education
transport
planning
fire and public safety
social care
libraries
waste management
trading standards
District, borough and city councils
These cover a smaller area than county councils. They’re usually responsible for services like:

rubbish collection
recycling
Council Tax collections
housing
planning applications

https://www.gov.uk/government/how-government-works

Yes, of course...but some services are universal, and in a proper nod to standardization--or equal justice under law, if you will--the central government will undertake to develop uniform norms or guidelines to which the counties and councils must conform.

We have our FBI, which is a law enforcement agency, but also develops standards for all sorts of things pertaining to criminal justice--including decent standards for incarceration, to rules for take-downs, to rules for profiling, etc. More to the point, we also have our Federal Housing Authority (FHA), which governs housing programs, and yes, which also promulgates and publishes standards for building siding and materials just like this.

In transportation and travel, we have the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), an independent U.S. government investigative agency responsible for civil transportation accident investigation. In this role, the NTSB investigates and reports on aviation accidents and incidents, certain types of highway crashes, ship and marine accidents, pipeline incidents, and railroad accidents. It's mandatory, and they get to the bottom of tragedies like this, no questions.

I don't know why this fire happened, but in a modern nation like either of ours it is unacceptable! If you guys need reorganization...if you guys need help in any way...even though its embarrassing, don't hesitate to give us a call. We'll show you how to do it fookin' right. Because the occurrence of that fire was downright uncivilized.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:35 pm

If the cladding met fire regulations, I don't see what can be done other than to not allow it from now on.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:45 pm

Other people living in tower blocks must be feeling very nervous right now. Isn't it time they were done away with, and nothing more than say 6 storeys allowed? Aren't they a bit awful to live in anyway?

by Original Quill Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:If the cladding met fire regulations, I don't see what can be done other than to not allow it from now on.

Or invent something else. People should be constantly thinking how to better the condition of ourselves and others.

Only Tories are so preoccupied with their own wealth that they haven't the time or energy.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:If the cladding met fire regulations, I don't see what can be done other than to not allow it from now on.

Or invent something else. People should be constantly thinking how to better the condition of ourselves and others.

Only Tories are so preoccupied with their own wealth that they haven't the time or energy.

Perhaps you could leave the Tories out of this.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Other people living in tower blocks must be feeling very nervous right now. Isn't it time they were done away with, and nothing more than say 6 storeys allowed? Aren't they a bit awful to live in anyway?

Living vertically is simply the way urban centers have developed, aided by the lift. There's nothing wrong with it...you just need to think safety within those parameters.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Or invent something else. People should be constantly thinking how to better the condition of ourselves and others.

Only Tories are so preoccupied with their own wealth that they haven't the time or energy.

Perhaps you could leave the Tories out of this.

WTF?! They are the ones responsible. It's as if they pulled a trigger on those people.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Perhaps you could leave the Tories out of this.

WTF?! They are the ones responsible. It's as if they pulled a trigger on those people.

Why are they responsible? The cladding used was legal, and there was no requirement to use fire-retardant cladding.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Other people living in tower blocks must be feeling very nervous right now. Isn't it time they were done away with, and nothing more than say 6 storeys allowed? Aren't they a bit awful to live in anyway?

Living vertically is simply the way urban centers have developed, aided by the lift. There's nothing wrong with it...you just need to think safety within those parameters.

They were safe before green targets and eu rules forced the cladding work to be done...

by eddie Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The EU made the rules...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/817651/london-fire-grenfell-tower-block-cladding-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Almost 100 people died horrifically and the best you can do is try to deflect the blame from those who are actually at fault? You're such a geranium.

Ps and a sack of shit.

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