#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

HoratioTarr wrote:

nicko wrote:Wolfie, the perfect example of someone who is blinded by the truth because of his hatred for those who speak it.

How can you hate people you've never even met?  

HoratioTarr wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/390818-london-bridge-terrorist-attack/

If you want to stop a fire, stop fuelling it.

Instilling fear in the public and deamonising terrorists, while attacking and funding them at the same time, allows our government to accumulate wealth while getting away with murder, directly and indirectly.

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  

HoratioTarr wrote:

nicko wrote:Wolfie, the perfect example of someone who is blinded by the truth because of his hatred for those who speak it.

How can you hate people you've never even met?  

HoratioTarr wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/390818-london-bridge-terrorist-attack/

If you want to stop a fire, stop fuelling it.

Instilling fear in the public and deamonising terrorists, while attacking and funding them at the same time, allows our government to accumulate wealth while getting away with murder, directly and indirectly.

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  

I'd prefer to show a way to stop it entirely, rather than follow your example of fake compassion

Thorin wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I'd prefer to show a way to stop it entirely, rather than follow your example of fake compassion

Seriously you really are immature at times.

How is she being fake?

Is it you acting stupidly, just because you just received criticism?

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Seriously you really are immature at times.

How is she being fake?

Is it you acting stupidly, just because you just received criticism?

Compassion isn't fake, its real and genuine.

Speaking of Manchester, the city has been in mourning over the last 2 weeks, the atmosphere is just different, and the concert last night (which you posted of in a  different thread) is testament to the love, care, empathy   and compassion that people who may not be directly involved have shown in abundance.
The amount now raised for the victims in Manchester  is over £10.000.000.....which will never ease the grief of those who have lost their loved ones, but in some way it will help ease the practical burden, especially for the 48 people seriously damaged, some who will never work again.

Thorin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge, you know me and my view toward Islamist extremism. I do not dismiss the role of religion. In a thread not long ago I stated that the connection linking homegrown terrorism with IS and other groups was their shared faith (however differently practiced).

I do not disagree on this. I actually fully agree Islam itself is another part of the problem.

And so is UK foreign policy. Or are you right now going to tell me UK military involvement in Iraq, Libya and Syria has nothing whatsoever to do with the recent attacks?

How is foreign policy causing Yazidi girls to be raped Eilzel?

Sorry mate you are giving me the biggest bullshit apologist crap ever.
What you should be asking is why are people claiming its because we stepped into help rid Iraq or Saddam and Afghanistan of the Taliban or Libyia of Gaddafi?

So why would they have anything against the Uk by then being attacked by in many cases British Muslims? Off freeing Muslims from oppression and years of genocide?

Why are not we seeing Germans committing terrorism for our involvement in WW2?

Millions of Germans died at the hands of bomber Harris systematic campaign to destroy German Cities, so where is all the terrorism from them Eilzel?

How about Malaysia?

How about Vietnam?

How about Korea?

How about Serbia?

How about Croatia?

You tell me Eilzel

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.

Thorin wrote:So yet again nobody can answer and they know why they cannot, because the claim to foreign policy is bullshit and actually feeds into a narrative that the terrorists use to fuel hate against the west. That some how with the Manchester Bomber, he acted not of Assad gassing Muslims, but that trump retaliated against an airfield, from where warplanes flew to commit war crimes. That this was seen as a far more heinous crime than Assad murdering Muslims.

There is only one connection, that islam within its doctrimes teaches to fight against those who transgress and this is used not against those who are murderers like Assad, but against those looking to stop him.

I am sick to death of those who give apologist bullshit to the real cause of islamic terrorism.

Why not tell all the Yazidi girls being raped, that its not because of Islamic doctrine on sex slaves, but foreign policy that they are raped daily?

Are any of you apologists going to suggest its foreign policy they are raped?

Thorin wrote:I mean can anyone imagine this apologist line of thinking during the Inquisition.

That women burned at the stakes for being witches, were at fault for helping people get better. That their policy as being healers as many were seen as, was the cause to burn them to death. This is the madness peddled by those on the left. They look to blame those who are the victims of these attacks and not the perpetrators who do these crimes and do so based off what they believe from their religious bullshit.

I mean what next, are people here going to blame the Jews for fleeing from pogroms in Russia and settling in Germany, as the reason for why Hitler wanted to exterminate them? Are they going to excuse nazi ideology for this? Are they going to say the jews caused this themselves by being who they are? That is what the apologist argument is essentially arguing for. That we would have been wrong to stop Germany committing the Holocaust and that by doing so, it would cause German terrorists against the west. Now my history is a little shaky, but where was that terrorism?

What a crock of shit by those blaming foreign policy, you should be ashamed of yourselves. That to be seen to help is the cause for this terrorism?

What sort of fucked up world are we living in today, where we are blamed for when we look to help.

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

eddie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

We have a  mosque round the corner from where I live.   They're having an open day soon, and all faiths are invited.  They do it every so often and a nicer bunch you wouldn't meet anywhere.    I have Muslim clients.  I shop at my local Muslim shop all the time.   But...I'm not gonna tolerate the radicals and I loathe what they represent.  And I'll speak out against them and  their vision of Islam.   It's well known on here that I reject all religion, I don't discriminate, I hold them all in contempt.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against those who believe in a peaceful live and let live faith.  That's their choice.   Just don't push it on me, or kill in the name of some medieval crusade, and leave your medieval religious practices like FGM and misogyny in the past where it belongs.  If you persist in that, I'll speak out and give you my derision.  I'd do it equally with Catholics, Jews, Christians and Hindus and any other radical banner waving religious nut.

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

We have a  mosque round the corner from where I live.   They're having an open day soon, and all faiths are invited.  They do it every so often and a nicer bunch you wouldn't meet anywhere.    I have Muslim clients.  I shop at my local Muslim shop all the time.   But...I'm not gonna tolerate the radicals and I loathe what they represent.  And I'll speak out against them and  their vision of Islam.   It's well known on here that I reject all religion, I don't discriminate, I hold them all in contempt.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against those who believe in a peaceful live and let live faith.  That's their choice.   Just don't push it on me, or kill in the name of some medieval crusade, and leave your medieval religious practices like FGM and misogyny in the past where it belongs.  If you persist in that, I'll speak out and give you my derision.  I'd do it equally with Catholics, Jews, Christians and Hindus and any other radical banner waving religious nut.

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.

No, it doesn't.  Because from their mouths (fingers) it just sounds trite and tedious and is rendered meaningless.

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.

No, it doesn't.  Because from their mouths (fingers) it just sounds trite and tedious and is rendered meaningless.

Exactly...a bit like the F word, its lost all value to shock, I even type it myself now and again lately.....I don't press send though,cos  I'm a Laydee.

eddie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

veya_victaous wrote:

Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

If you were the poster child for 'British' Liberal values I'd reject them too  
talk about a major marketing FAIL


Demonization has not worked so far, but thorin's all for giving it another go

the number reported by Islamic community is much lower, and should be treated with the highest probability of being true. start there  

veya_victaous wrote:

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

A forum is and echoism of a societies true thoughts not just the face they put on when people can see them.
Maybe if you really want to defend Britain you should do more to make it apparent to ones that think all Muslims want to stab them that they are idiots.

In Australia People do speak openly like me and wolf speak, what is on the forum is a representation of Australian views (given it is only the LW since we don't have any aussie RW posters) , the Americans here I feel speak openly too.

And it is YOU that is being Nationalist defending the indefensible, I am not saying Australia is better just we are handling these same threats better and the UK needs to change it's attitude if it want to try and stop these homegrown terrorists and more importantly Stop growing new ones , If you where doing something better we'd steal it, but we'd also be honest enough with our selves to see the OP is right. I mean the British Muslim on this forum even felt as such.

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

HoratioTarr wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

Where did someone say that?   I must have missed that one.   I live in an Asian/Muslim area  and have for over ten years and never had a problem.    I've never seen in all the time I've lived here any clashes or racism.   Who are the Ultra Brits exactly?    Nobody on here is that Right Wing, only that idiot the Major and he's gone.  Everyone does have opinions though and that's their prerogative, just as it's yours to speak your mind.   However, I can tell you one thing, despite the fact that we all live side by side here in my area, there's not much integration.   The definition of 'integration' is to merge.   That's not happening here.  Each ethnic group is quite separate.  You rarely see Asians working locally in Western shops, for example.  Or Polish and Westerners working in Asian shops.    I've never ever seen an Asian customer in the local Polish supermarkets and vice versa. We have a small Chinese community as well.    They keep very much to themselves.  

But I digress.  I would certainly speak out if I saw a Muslim getting abused on our streets, particularly a woman, but I've never seen it.   However, if I saw a Muslim spouting hate on our streets, I wouldn't like that either.  When you do that, you deserve all you have coming to you from other people's derision and contempt.  

It's a sad fact that there will always be degrees of violence within our society particularly from young males.  But we're also intelligent enough to rise above it, it's just that some choose not to.  I don't believe any amount of standing up for the underdog would change that or stop radicalisation in it's tracks.  It's all about individual choices for either good or evil.  It's not just Muslims who suffer poverty/discrimination.  All ethnic groups do, including Westerners.  And women have, in the past, suffered greatly from discrimination and brutality, both in the home and the workplace.

Male violence and aggression has been part of human history since before we were human.   Violence is still with us because it solved adaptive problems we faced in our ancestral past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ape-girl/201308/young-men-and-violence

The irony here is that certain posters on this forum who continually berate others for their beliefs/opinions and lack of moral backbone, are the most aggressive and vociferous.    

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

eddie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

didn't australia just have another terrorist attack and hostage taking yesterday?

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Where did someone say that?   I must have missed that one.   I live in an Asian/Muslim area  and have for over ten years and never had a problem.    I've never seen in all the time I've lived here any clashes or racism.   Who are the Ultra Brits exactly?    Nobody on here is that Right Wing, only that idiot the Major and he's gone.  Everyone does have opinions though and that's their prerogative, just as it's yours to speak your mind.   However, I can tell you one thing, despite the fact that we all live side by side here in my area, there's not much integration.   The definition of 'integration' is to merge.   That's not happening here.  Each ethnic group is quite separate.  You rarely see Asians working locally in Western shops, for example.  Or Polish and Westerners working in Asian shops.    I've never ever seen an Asian customer in the local Polish supermarkets and vice versa. We have a small Chinese community as well.    They keep very much to themselves.  

But I digress.  I would certainly speak out if I saw a Muslim getting abused on our streets, particularly a woman, but I've never seen it.   However, if I saw a Muslim spouting hate on our streets, I wouldn't like that either.  When you do that, you deserve all you have coming to you from other people's derision and contempt.  

It's a sad fact that there will always be degrees of violence within our society particularly from young males.  But we're also intelligent enough to rise above it, it's just that some choose not to.  I don't believe any amount of standing up for the underdog would change that or stop radicalisation in it's tracks.  It's all about individual choices for either good or evil.  It's not just Muslims who suffer poverty/discrimination.  All ethnic groups do, including Westerners.  And women have, in the past, suffered greatly from discrimination and brutality, both in the home and the workplace.

Male violence and aggression has been part of human history since before we were human.   Violence is still with us because it solved adaptive problems we faced in our ancestral past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ape-girl/201308/young-men-and-violence

The irony here is that certain posters on this forum who continually berate others for their beliefs/opinions and lack of moral backbone, are the most aggressive and vociferous.    

Nicko said that
He said the Muslims I have coffee with are talking to me thinking You'll get yours infidel and wanting to stab me in the neck.
even after i had explained they are educated middle aged men, Australian citizens with Aussie born kids. That comment negatively on ISIS etc when it is in the paper.

And on the point I bolded in your post
that is why i have said and been shouted down multiple times that the UK is not really multicultural and integrates migrants poorly.
Because here you do seen whites Indians Polynesians Arabs shopping in the Chinese grocery, all will buy some thing in Middle eastern or Vietnamese  bakeries, Indian and Italian food is popular with everyone. here Polish, German, French etc are so well integrated as to be indistinguishable from British decent Australians.

Yes it is true that young men are the most likely to be violent and terrorists or thugs, and the thing is standing up for the underdog does stop them. they (whether it be Islamic terrorists or the school shooter in the USA) are isolated and feel disconnected from the community around them, someone speaking up for them can be the factor that stops them. they aren't doing this because they read just one of thorin's posts, they do it because there is so much media like thorin's posts that they drown in it. (plus there is just some that are innately evil which we can do nothing about )  

@eddie
it is when you stop standing up for them, there is simple not enough people holding the line against intolerance in this day and age. And in the UK especially, as seen in the British media that is beamed all over the world

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
didn't australia just have another terrorist attack and hostage taking yesterday?

"Hostage taking"  ???

Where was this  ???

eddie wrote:One of my best friend's is Indian. She is an ex-Hindu (I say ex because she stopped believing in anything when her two year old daughter died horribly in a private nursery) and she has told me that she can experience "feelings of discomfort" just after attacks even though she's not Muslim and dresses as a westerner.
I asked her if it was actual incidents or her own paranoia because she was Indian. This woman is highly educated let me tell you and she said "I think it's mainly paranoia but feelings are so heightened I can be a little worried when I'm on the tube travelling to London because I do feel apologetic for my colouring"

That made me feel really sad for her actually. I adore that woman and to think she feels that way makes me feel despair. She understands people's reactions though - and that makes me feel even sadder.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:One of my best friend's is Indian. She is an ex-Hindu (I say ex because she stopped believing in anything when her two year old daughter died horribly in a private nursery) and she has told me that she can experience "feelings of discomfort" just after attacks even though she's not Muslim and dresses as a westerner.
I asked her if it was actual incidents or her own paranoia because she was Indian. This woman is highly educated let me tell you and she said "I think it's mainly paranoia but feelings are so heightened I can be a little worried when I'm on the tube travelling to London because I do feel apologetic for my colouring"

That made me feel really sad for her actually. I adore that woman and to think she feels that way makes me feel despair. She understands people's reactions though - and that makes me feel even sadder.

A similar  thing happens on here when certain people keep banging on about what the British did centuries ago.  As though we've all got to atone for it.  

I really do sympathise for anyone who feels like this, it's horrible and shouldn't be.  But the majority of people won't be thinking that way.  It's only a minority that are nasty and they're usually nasty inside anyway.

veya_victaous wrote:And I've been to Shisha joints, had Confucian banquets, lunar new year banquets, been to prayers in a mosque, spent a week in Buddhist temple, been to a traditional Samoan wedding, Indian festival of colours with out leaving Australia and was hardly the only white person at any of those events

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

A similar  thing happens on here when certain people keep banging on about what the British did centuries ago.  As though we've all got to atone for it.  

I really do sympathise for anyone who feels like this, it's horrible and shouldn't be.  But the majority of people won't be thinking that way.  It's only a minority that are nasty and they're usually nasty inside anyway.

You're talking about me and where do you get this centuries ago thing from???? it's just decades not even half a century yet for some places. This is also like i say British propaganda pretending Off it was Olden days NO it was in YOUR lifetime

1970's for Australia to kick the British aristocracy off aboriginal land and the Queen then sacked the Prime minister that did it.
You were still keeping aboriginal remains in museums like they were stuffed animals into this millennium.

places like Jamaica well into the 1980's the majority of money generated from the sugar production (the major export of the nation ) was funneled to the Uk. and then when you 'gave' them the rights back, you 'lent' them a bunch of money at ridiculously high interest that they are still not free from.
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/jamaica-owed-%C2%A322-trillion-slavery-reparations
If the Uk paid reparation Jamaica would be well in front even if it just wrote off a lot of foreign debt it holds from ex colonies..


AND the big things is ADMITTING IT!!! stop teaching that Britain did people a favor, it is like the Nazis saying they did Jews a favor cause they have had so much political sympathy as a result of the holocaust          

AND YES as a nation, Australians are paying reparation are trying to have reconciliation with aboriginals,  to then see British people act like they where in the right and call the time the grand age of Britain and wish for it's return, when they oppressed all Australians and held aboriginals people to be rightless animals is completely appalling. Like the rednecks in the USA supporting the KKK.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


"Hostage taking"  ???

Where was this  ???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/hostage-taker-australia-had-acquitted-plotting-terror-attack/

when you mum gets back ask her to read it to you, until then just look at the pictures.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/hostage-taker-australia-had-acquitted-plotting-terror-attack/

when you mum gets back ask her to read it to you, until then just look at the pictures.

HERE we have that totally cluelss fuckwit DYKbrain can't even comprehend his own reference...

The incident was an ISIS sympathiser who died in a siege with police, after already murdering one person..
I.e.  there was no "hostage" per se..

And fuckwit Deano thinks he's so clever..

After his total failure with the Election results, Deano is now the stupidest person on NewsFix..
Tommy can rest easy now --  Deano has officially taken that crown.