Parents Should Not Google Their Child’s Symptoms Before Visiting The Doctor, Say Experts

Hahahahaha most GP's rely on google!!!!!
And most people google their symptoms and go to the GP's knowing more than the useless GP's, that's why!

Google is making them look redendant and remember I said this: Soon most GP's will be obsolete.
Good, then only the best one most-informed ones will remain behind. The rest of them are useless.

eddie wrote:Hahahahaha most GP's rely on google!!!!!
And most people google their symptoms and go to the GP's knowing more than the useless GP's, that's why!

Google is making them look redendant and remember I said this: Soon most GP's will be obsolete.
Good, then only the best one most-informed ones will remain behind. The rest of them are useless.

You just proved exactly what is wrong with people like yourself Eddie.

That you wrongly think you know better than people who spend years medically studying and training.

Sorry but anyone that took your advice and claims above would be crazy

So thanks for showing exactly what is wrong and why we are seeing more and more people ill, because they stupidly think they know better than those who are trained.
Google would never be able to diagnose based off information, do you know why?


If you want to make stupid decisions, on your head be it, but please don't post rubbish, as you can endanger others lives with your irresponsible beliefs.

Thanks

the problem is understanding the data that is presented by google, without the adequate foundations in the discipline to turn it into information.

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is understanding the data that is presented by google, without the adequate foundations in the discipline to turn it into information.

And that's why many still need the GP.  I don't.

Don't get me wrong, most of my GP's have been lovely people. One was happy to let me guide her through my thyroid diagnosis and accepted my knowledge on the disease - which I'd investigated thoroughly.  In fact, most of my knowledge of my disease came from American-based forums of people who actually had the disease and because Americans pay for their blood work etc they have become experts in how to read their reports!  Their knowledge and advice was priceless for me.

I actually gave my GP the forum address - she took it willingly.

Another GP was one I took my son to for eczema - she was a young Indian lady and she was wonderful. She listened to all my research and actually sat there and said "Absolutely correct and yes, I agree, no sterioid creams as he's too young".

So if you know your stuff and they're a good GP then they'll listen.

Like I've said, they're simply the middle man to get you to the actual man you want to see ie the expert.

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is understanding the data that is presented by google, without the adequate foundations in the discipline to turn it into information.

Sadly many do not understand and even worse wrongly self diagnose through confirmation bias.
They have some symptoms and believe its something when its nothing of the sort.
I can understand people being concerned at symptoms, but people who do this thinking they know, have not got a clue.

Thorin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is understanding the data that is presented by google, without the adequate foundations in the discipline to turn it into information.

Sadly many do not understand and even worse wrongly self diagnose through confirmation bias.
They have some symptoms and believe its something when its nothing of the sort.
I can understand people being concerned at symptoms, but people who do this thinking they know, have not got a clue.

I agree. That's why these people need GP's. But the up and coming generation are far more clued-up and the information out there on safe sites like NHS Direct ONLINE, just as an example - is brilliant.
This is why GP's either need to up their game or they will become extinct.

eddie wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Sadly many do not understand and even worse wrongly self diagnose through confirmation bias.
They have some symptoms and believe its something when its nothing of the sort.
I can understand people being concerned at symptoms, but people who do this thinking they know, have not got a clue.

I agree. That's why these people need GP's. But the up and coming generation are far more clued-up and the information out there on safe sites like NHS Direct ONLINE, just as an example  - is brilliant.
This is why GP's either need to up their game or they will become extinct.

Seriously just stop with the gibberish Eddie as you seriously are talking so much rubbish.
You start out by insulting the medical profession who spends years studying and practicing, based off your delusional beliefs buying into bullshit quackery you read off the web

Its disgusting how you can even sit there and have the audacity to say they are not needed.

I despair when you talk about anything in the medical field, because its what you preach to others and as seen here that is dangerous.

If you want to act stupidly, that is up to you, but stop spouting your untrained bollocks onto people

Thank you

Firstly don't tell me what to post and then say thank you like you're in charge.

Fuck off with that.

It's not my fault you're not in tune with yourself and need someone else to tell you what's wrong with you.
And I wish you'd stop deflecting - you know for sure you've googled your own ailments before and been exactly right before you've even been to the GP.

And that's my final say.  You can get all sweaty and upset if you like but don't be rude to me I've told you about that already.

Calm down. It's only a debate. Be polite.

eddie wrote:Firstly don't tell me what to post and then say thank you like you're in charge.

Fuck off with that.

It's not my fault you're not in tune with yourself and need someone else to tell you what's wrong with you.
And I wish you'd stop deflecting - you know for sure you've googled your own ailments before and been exactly right before you've even been to the GP.

And that's my final say.  You can get all sweaty and upset if you like but don't be rude to me I've told you about that already.

Calm down. It's only a debate. Be polite.

No I wont fuck off

When you post such idiocy insulting every single doctor, nurse and surgeon, its disgusting.

The fact you can sit there and think you know better based off your claimed sessions with your own GP, is of supreme arrogance and stupidity

Every time you post this kind of crap, I will, post you up and tell you that you are being an idiot

If you want to be an idiot, stop preaching your idiocy to others

Its simple dont post rubbish and I wont ridicule someone who post such dangerous crap

Ooooh. I'm quite sure you bust your gut with that post and I'll use your word: Triggered.

Btw I never mentioned "doctors, surgeons and nurses"?

But don't let that stop you from making shit up though, when you run out of debate it's easier to lie I suppose.

I'll allow you the last word because my ego really doesn't need to win Didge, I'm secure enough.

eddie wrote:Hahahahaha most GP's rely on google!!!!!
And most people google their symptoms and go to the GP's knowing more than the useless GP's, that's why!

Google is making them look redendant and remember I said this: Soon most GP's will be obsolete.
Good, then only the best one most-informed ones will remain behind. The rest of them are useless.

So apparently now GP's are not doctors??????

You just lied Eddie as you did mention doctors or even worse now have degraded GP's from being fully qualified doctors.

Je wiz it gets worse by the minute

Let me repeat, this has nothing to do with ego, winning etc

This has everything to do with you spouting poor unprofessional claims, than can make people end up making poor decisions, based off your poor views.

I will always warn against what you poorly preach on this.

I specifically mentioned GP's in my post and you know it. You're splitting hairs and desperate.

Now the floor is yours. Use it well.

eddie wrote:I specifically mentioned GP's in my post and you know it.  You're splitting hairs and desperate.

Now the floor is yours. Use it well.

WTF

They are doctors, who you claimed that people know more than they do after looking up google and calling the doctors useless.

For fuck sake...

Get off the floor, as what the fuck have you been smoking???

eddie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is understanding the data that is presented by google, without the adequate foundations in the discipline to turn it into information.

And that's why many still need the GP.  I don't.

Don't get me wrong, most of my GP's have been lovely people. One was happy to let me guide her through my thyroid diagnosis and accepted my knowledge on the disease - which I'd investigated thoroughly.  In fact, most of my knowledge of my disease came from American-based forums of people who actually had the disease and because Americans pay for their blood work etc they have become experts in how to read their reports!  Their knowledge and advice was priceless for me.

I actually gave my GP the forum address - she took it willingly.

Another GP was one I took my son to for eczema - she was a young Indian lady and she was wonderful. She listened to all my research and actually sat there and said "Absolutely correct and yes, I agree, no sterioid creams as he's too young".

So if you know your stuff and they're a good GP then they'll listen.

Like I've said, they're simply the middle man to get you to the actual man you want to see ie the expert.

It's most unfortunate that you've had bad experiences with GP's, eddie. There are always some bad apples. But it might be going too far to say they are useless. Just like Thorin is going too far in his style of speaking to you.

There is a reason why only pupils with the highest grades are accepted into medical school. Everything happens for a reason. GP's have to pass numerous exams during their first five years at medical school, then have a few more years of higher exams to become GP's. 8 years training, minimum.

Of course lay people can compete with the depth of knowledge of their doctor in a particular topic that they have just googled,.......  but they can never compete with the overall incredible breadth of knowledge of the doctor.

Jules wrote:

eddie wrote:

And that's why many still need the GP.  I don't.

Don't get me wrong, most of my GP's have been lovely people. One was happy to let me guide her through my thyroid diagnosis and accepted my knowledge on the disease - which I'd investigated thoroughly.  In fact, most of my knowledge of my disease came from American-based forums of people who actually had the disease and because Americans pay for their blood work etc they have become experts in how to read their reports!  Their knowledge and advice was priceless for me.

I actually gave my GP the forum address - she took it willingly.

Another GP was one I took my son to for eczema - she was a young Indian lady and she was wonderful. She listened to all my research and actually sat there and said "Absolutely correct and yes, I agree, no sterioid creams as he's too young".

So if you know your stuff and they're a good GP then they'll listen.

Like I've said, they're simply the middle man to get you to the actual man you want to see ie the expert.

It's most unfortunate that you've had bad experiences with GP's, eddie. There are always some bad apples. But it might be going too far to say they are useless. Just like Thorin is going too far in his style of speaking to you.

There is a reason why only pupils with the highest grades are accepted into medical school. Everything happens for a reason. GP's have to pass numerous exams during their first five years at medical school, then have a few more years of higher exams to become GP's. 8 years training, minimum.

Of course lay people can compete with the depth of knowledge of their doctor in a particular topic that they have just googled,.......  but they can never compete with the overall incredible breadth of knowledge of the doctor.

Might be going to far?

For someone to even claim they know more about illnesses, when they will only know more about their own history of their illness. Does not mean they know more about the illness medically. I have had asthma all my life and still find new things Doctors tell me about treatment. I never for one minute try or believe I know better than people that spend their daily lives understanding our medical conditions. Who's only intent is for us to become better.

What Eddie said is both appalling and dangerous, because its wrongly promoting a very poor view of Doctors, claiming individual knows more based off quackery they read off the web or as the article points out wrongly self diagnosing.

I simple point to how recently a mass epidemic of measles broke out in the US, based on such poor lies made to parents on vaccines.

I have no issue with what Eddie does or thinks for herself, but I draw the line when she presents herself as some sort of expert denouncing qualified doctors and vaccines themselves

I'm saying that what you go to a GP for can be googled and if you're smart enough and body-wise, they can't tell you much you haven't already learned.

I wouldn't advocate the dumb, the elderly or any vulnerable people to ONLY google and not go to their GP - that's not what I'm saying at all.

Jeez I'm only repeating myself. Everything I've said I cannot say again, any differently.

On a one to one with a GP, of course a patient can outdo him (or her) on the knowledge of a particular disease, but the GP is the one with multiple skills. He could deliver a baby, resuscitate the baby if needed, take a blood sample, listen to your heart and tell if you have a leakage or blockage and can pinpoint which valve or vessel is affected.

If someone is choking, the average lay person would probably try the heimlich manouvre and hope for the best. The GP is not 'average' he can go the extra mile and actually reach inside your throat with instruments and expertly fish out whatever is blocking your breathing. He has the skills and dexterity to do so.


This is my longwinded way of explaining why I think GP's should be respected.

eddie wrote:Hahahahaha most GP's rely on google!!!!!
And most people google their symptoms and go to the GP's knowing more than the useless GP's, that's why!

Google is making them look redendant and remember I said this: Soon most GP's will be obsolete.
Good, then only the best one most-informed ones will remain behind. The rest of them are useless.

Yes. I googled my symptoms and came up with an answer, which was different to the two diagnoses I'd had prior to that.

Jules wrote:On a one to one with a GP, of course a patient can outdo him (or her) on the knowledge of a particular disease,  but the GP is the one with multiple skills. He could deliver a baby, resuscitate the baby if needed,  take a blood sample,   listen to your heart and tell if you have a leakage or blockage and can pinpoint which valve or vessel is affected.

If someone is choking, the average lay person would probably try the heimlich manouvre and hope for the best. The GP is not 'average' he can go the extra mile and actually reach inside your throat with instruments and expertly fish out whatever is blocking your breathing. He has the skills and dexterity to do so.


This is my longwinded way of explaining why I think GP's should be respected.

Really based on what?

All the patient will have is a history of their own illness and not many forms of that illness

I agree they should be respected, but I disagree they will be less knowledgeable that most people on conditions.

I mean why do you think they spend years studying and practicing?

Yes they also specialize in fields, but I think you are poorly demeaning them here

You smack our butts too hard, Thorin. You're too full on. Calm down lol.
Bye for now, guys. x

Well it's pretty unlikely you're going to choke right at that instant in the GP's office....but I get your other points.
The NHS website was made for a reason though; to stop stupid people going to the GP surgery unecessarily and of course we have NHS Direct which is pretty good.


In the main, I haven't found my GP's any more knowledgeable than what I've already read and researched myself - and that's the truth.
They've been helpful and kind in some cases, certainly.

eddie wrote:Well it's pretty unlikely you're going to choke right at that instant in the GP's office....but I get your other points.
The NHS website was made for a reason though; to stop stupid people going to the GP surgery unecessarily and of course we have NHS Direct which is pretty good.


In the main, I haven't found my GP's any more knowledgeable than what I've already read and researched myself - and that's the truth.
They've been helpful and kind in some cases, certainly.

They can arrange blood tests, which you can't do yourself. Blood tests aren't necessarily conclusive but they can help with a diagnosis. /They can also refer you to a consultant. As far as symptoms go though, only you what they really are, and doctors don't have much time to go into it fully.

Thorin wrote:

Jules wrote:On a one to one with a GP, of course a patient can outdo him (or her) on the knowledge of a particular disease,  but the GP is the one with multiple skills. He could deliver a baby, resuscitate the baby if needed,  take a blood sample,   listen to your heart and tell if you have a leakage or blockage and can pinpoint which valve or vessel is affected.

If someone is choking, the average lay person would probably try the heimlich manouvre and hope for the best. The GP is not 'average' he can go the extra mile and actually reach inside your throat with instruments and expertly fish out whatever is blocking your breathing. He has the skills and dexterity to do so.


This is my longwinded way of explaining why I think GP's should be respected.

Really based on what?

All the patient will have is a history of their own illness and not many forms of that illness

I agree they should be respected, but I disagree they will be less knowledgeable that most people on conditions.

I mean why do you think they spend years studying and practicing?

Yes they also specialize in fields, but I think you are poorly demeaning them here

No Thorin, I'm not demeaning doctors. Many of my close relatives are doctors ffs and I fully respect them! I'm agreeing with most of what you say but you haven't even noticed. Read back!
Bye now.

eddie wrote:I'm saying that what you go to a GP for can be googled and if you're smart enough and body-wise, they can't tell you much you haven't already learned.

I wouldn't advocate the dumb, the elderly or any vulnerable people to ONLY google and not go to their GP - that's not what I'm saying at all.

Jeez I'm only repeating myself. Everything I've said I cannot say again, any differently.

I would not advocate anyone doing so, as you then form a confirmation bias based off symptoms, which can be generally and often wrong. Most illnesses require further testing and what nobody does is rule anything out. Symptoms are looked at for a variety of reasons.

So for example, if a person suffers from numbness to their body, a temp weakness to one side of the body, and even speech problems.


What would you self diagnose this as?

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Well it's pretty unlikely you're going to choke right at that instant in the GP's office....but I get your other points.
The NHS website was made for a reason though; to stop stupid people going to the GP surgery unecessarily and of course we have NHS Direct which is pretty good.


In the main, I haven't found my GP's any more knowledgeable than what I've already read and researched myself - and that's the truth.
They've been helpful and kind in some cases, certainly.

They can arrange blood tests, which you can't do yourself. Blood tests aren't necessarily conclusive but they can help with a diagnosis. /They can also refer you to a consultant. As far as symptoms go though, only you what they really are, and doctors don't have much time to go into it fully.

Yes I already said about blood tests and arranging appointments with experts.
Does anyone read my posts?

Jules wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Really based on what?

All the patient will have is a history of their own illness and not many forms of that illness

I agree they should be respected, but I disagree they will be less knowledgeable that most people on conditions.

I mean why do you think they spend years studying and practicing?

Yes they also specialize in fields, but I think you are poorly demeaning them here

No Thorin, I'm not demeaning doctors. Many of my close relatives are doctors ffs and I fully respect them! I'm agreeing with most of what you say but you haven't even noticed. Read back!
Bye now.

You just claimed a patient can out do a doctor based on their condition, not based on anything of substance

Thorin wrote:

eddie wrote:I'm saying that what you go to a GP for can be googled and if you're smart enough and body-wise, they can't tell you much you haven't already learned.

I wouldn't advocate the dumb, the elderly or any vulnerable people to ONLY google and not go to their GP - that's not what I'm saying at all.

Jeez I'm only repeating myself. Everything I've said I cannot say again, any differently.

I would not advocate anyone doing so, as you then form a confirmation bias based off symptoms, which can be generally and often wrong. Most illnesses require further testing and what nobody does is rule anything out. Symptoms are looked at for a variety of reasons.

So for example, if a person suffers from numbness to their body, a temp weakness to one side of the body, and even speech problems.


What would you self diagnose this as?

Anyone?

Didge don't be silly! I'd have to be experiencing these things myself to even think of making a comment?!

eddie wrote:Didge don't be silly! I'd have to be experiencing these things myself to even think of making a comment?!

Well what do you think it is based on the symptoms??

Do you think I would need to ask more questions on this?

I think you would have to know your own body, take into account your weight and size and what you eat and everything else you need to consider and I think you should then investigate further and you will find a hundred or so forums of people who've had your symptoms. Sort the obvious crap from the intelligent posts you read, disregard anything that doesn't relate to you, keep a diary and arm yourself with as much info as you can get.
You'll find you go to your GP and he will say much of what you have written in front of you and if you're in tune with yourself from the get go, your GP will name the first thing on your list of possibilities as what "they think" to be wrong with you.  

But what they say, will all be written on your paper if you've done your homework well.

Now I think that's a rough enough explanation to make my point - and this post goes alongside everything else ive said on this topic.

eddie wrote:I think you would have to know your own body, take into account your weight and size and what you eat and everything else you need to consider and I think you should then investigate further and you will find a hundred or so forums of people who've had your symptoms. Sort the obvious crap from the intelligent posts you read, disregard anything that doesn't relate to you, keep a diary and arm yourself with as much info as you can get.
You'll find you go to your GP and he will say much of what you have written in front of you and if you're in tune with yourself from the get go, your GP will name the first thing on your list of possibilities as what "they think" to be wrong with you.  

But what they say, will all be written on your paper if you've done your homework well.

Now I think that's a rough enough explanation to make my point - and this post goes alongside everything else ive said on this topic.

That is not answering my question is it?

It shows also that you have no comprehension of what GP's will try to do.

They attempt to rule out possibilities and if they cannot they will require further testing.

Some same symptoms can mean different conditions.

So I really take issue of what you think Doctors actually do, or what if at all your Doctor does, because she does not sound like any doctors I know.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They can arrange blood tests, which you can't do yourself. Blood tests aren't necessarily conclusive but they can help with a diagnosis. /They can also refer you to a consultant. As far as symptoms go though, only you what they really are, and doctors don't have much time to go into it fully.

Yes I already said about blood tests and arranging appointments with experts.
Does anyone read my posts?

I can't see where you said that.

Here's the answer to your question:

I wouldn't google someone else's symptoms (unless I lived with them or I knew they were intelligent enough to be 'body wise') and I certainly cannot answer about symptoms I am not experiencing because you have to experience a physical symptom to really understand it before anyone else can.

I can't say anymore. Honestly. I'm bored of repeating myself.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They can arrange blood tests, which you can't do yourself. Blood tests aren't necessarily conclusive but they can help with a diagnosis. /They can also refer you to a consultant. As far as symptoms go though, only you what they really are, and doctors don't have much time to go into it fully.

Yes I already said about blood tests and arranging appointments with experts.
Does anyone read my posts?

I can't see where you said that.

Never mind.

My apologies rags, I had said it today but not on this thread.
It was on this one.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t20693-atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-according-to-dozens-of-studies#398350

eddie wrote:My apologies rags, I had said it today but not on this thread.
It was on this one.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t20693-atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-according-to-dozens-of-studies#398350

That's OK. I'm largely avoiding that particular thread, so I didn't see that.

eddie wrote:Here's the answer to your question:

I wouldn't google someone else's symptoms (unless I lived with them or I knew they were intelligent enough to be 'body wise') and I certainly cannot answer about symptoms I am not experiencing because you have to experience a physical symptom to really understand it before anyone else can.

I can't say anymore. Honestly. I'm bored of repeating myself.

i asking you this question on if you had these symptoms.

Would you google and if you did, what would you conclude? Or would you contact trained help?

You are really backtracking here badly Eddie

The trouble with blood tests is that they can be negative even if someone does have a certain condition - ie, they can be seronegative even if they all the hallmarks of a particular disease. They could also be seropositive and have no symptoms of that particular disease. That can lead to a delay in diagnosis, but if a patient finds all their symptoms via google, they can at least try to discuss it with the doctor.

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with blood tests is that they can be negative even if someone does have a certain condition - ie, they can be seronegative even if they all the hallmarks of a particular disease. They could also be seropositive and have no symptoms of that particular disease. That can lead to a delay in diagnosis, but if a patient finds all their symptoms via google, they can at least try to discuss it with the doctor.

That is why many tests are taken and why they will exhaust all avenues.
Yes some tests do not work for some people but in the main they show up the problems and conditions people have. Do you know how many things can be tested for in blood alone Rags?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with blood tests is that they can be negative even if someone does have a certain condition - ie, they can be seronegative even if they all the hallmarks of a particular disease. They could also be seropositive and have no symptoms of that particular disease. That can lead to a delay in diagnosis, but if a patient finds all their symptoms via google, they can at least try to discuss it with the doctor.

That is why many tests are taken and why they will exhaust all avenues.
Yes some tests do not work for some people but in the main they show up the problems and conditions people have. Do you know how many things can be tested for in blood alone Rags?

The point is that all blood tests can come back negative, and yet you could still have a particular condition. That is why some diseases take so long to be diagnosed, and in the end the symptoms are the clue to what it is.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

That is why many tests are taken and why they will exhaust all avenues.
Yes some tests do not work for some people but in the main they show up the problems and conditions people have. Do you know how many things can be tested for in blood alone Rags?

The point is that all blood tests can come back negative, and yet you could still have a particular condition. That is why some diseases take so long to be diagnosed, and in the end the symptoms are the clue to what it is.

Again you do realise that many tests are carried out and not just on blood.
Do all blood tests come back negative? Your view is on the negative here and not going off many stats.

Here is a list of many tests

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/tests/default.htm

I have seen countless cases where doctors persist in when they know something is very wrong.

Even when doctors do not even know how to treat something, they will look to find a way

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The point is that all blood tests can come back negative, and yet you could still have a particular condition. That is why some diseases take so long to be diagnosed, and in the end the symptoms are the clue to what it is.

Again you do realise that many tests are carried out and not just on blood.
Do all blood tests come back negative? Your view is on the negative here and not going off many stats.

Here is a list of many tests

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/tests/default.htm

I have seen countless cases where doctors persist in when they know something is very wrong.

Even when doctors do not even know how to treat something, they will look to find a way

Well there are conditions which can be very definite symptom-wise, but still be seronegative.

https://www.rheumatoidarthritis.org/ra/types/seronegative/

There are a few main tests for RA, and you can be seronegative but still have all the symptoms.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Again you do realise that many tests are carried out and not just on blood.
Do all blood tests come back negative? Your view is on the negative here and not going off many stats.

Here is a list of many tests

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/tests/default.htm

I have seen countless cases where doctors persist in when they know something is very wrong.

Even when doctors do not even know how to treat something, they will look to find a way

Well there are conditions which can be very definite symptom-wise, but still be seronegative.

https://www.rheumatoidarthritis.org/ra/types/seronegative/

There are a few main tests for RA, and you can be seronegative but still have all the symptoms.

And hence why doctors and specialists we continue to try different avenues to get to heart of the problems.

There are countless conditions and they end up daily saving and treating many lives.

Again as seen there are many tests and all this means is a better test has not been devised yet for this

I have no doubt in time there will be.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well there are conditions which can be very definite symptom-wise, but still be seronegative.

https://www.rheumatoidarthritis.org/ra/types/seronegative/

There are a few main tests for RA, and you can be seronegative but still have all the symptoms.

And hence why doctors and specialists we continue to try different avenues to get to heart of the problems.

There are countless conditions and they end up daily saving and treating many lives.

Again as seen there are many tests and all this means is a better test has not been devised yet for this

I have no doubt in time there will be.

Well so far, there aren't really any other tests. There are also conditions for which there are no particular tests - depression, anxiety, and some skin conditions spring to mind.

I'm not knocking doctors at all - I have a lot of respect for them - but people really have to question any diagnosis if they don't think it fits their symptoms, or if they have tests which are negative but they have symptoms which do fit a particular condition. I think google can be very useful in that respect. I don't mean anyone should self-medicate, but they should really ask the doctor to listen to them and not dismiss what they're saying. RA can take a long time to diagnose. Someone could also be seropositive and yet not have the typical symptoms.

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with blood tests is that they can be negative even if someone does have a certain condition - ie, they can be seronegative even if they all the hallmarks of a particular disease. They could also be seropositive and have no symptoms of that particular disease. That can lead to a delay in diagnosis, but if a patient finds all their symptoms via google, they can at least try to discuss it with the doctor.

That's EXACTLY what happened with my Graves Disease diagnosis! Wasn't going to mention it but now I will.

My GP sent me for a TSH level blood test but I knew I needed my T3 and T4 checked because TSH levels can change in women throughout the month. I only knew this after I'd researched the blood tests etc and read the American forums and their blood work discussions. Went back to my GP and explained all this and she didn't even really consider it - to her credit she listened and arranged a second blood test with the T3 and T4 included and sure enough my Graves' disease was confirmed.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


And hence why doctors and specialists we continue to try different avenues to get to heart of the problems.

There are countless conditions and they end up daily saving and treating many lives.

Again as seen there are many tests and all this means is a better test has not been devised yet for this

I have no doubt in time there will be.

Well so far, there aren't really any other tests. There are also conditions for which there are no particular tests - depression, anxiety, and some skin conditions spring to mind.

I'm not knocking doctors at all - I have a lot of respect for them - but people really have to question any diagnosis if they don't think it fits their symptoms, or if they have tests which are negative but they have symptoms which do fit a particular condition. I think google can be very useful in that respect. I don't mean anyone should self-medicate, but they should really ask the doctor to listen to them and not dismiss what they're saying. RA can take a long time to diagnose. Someone could also be seropositive and yet not have the typical symptoms.

Then its simple, get a second opinion, if you feel that way. Nobody is saying you should not seek more advice Rags. The reality is some conditions need specialists, like I have psoriasis and need to see a doctor who specializes in dermatology. There is no cure for my condition but there are things that have helped. ( I still have not tried Victors method, mainly as the sun has help clear again). I think google is a good tool in getting to know a diagnosed condition or where they are still trying to find out the problem. Where people developed symptoms and immediately google, creates confirmation bias and often leads to the wrong conclusions. At the end of the day its just listing possible illnesses for such symptoms and why its best to seek medical advice. My view is why waste time googling something when we already have a free service you can contact. Who can direct you to the best possible course of action.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with blood tests is that they can be negative even if someone does have a certain condition - ie, they can be seronegative even if they all the hallmarks of a particular disease. They could also be seropositive and have no symptoms of that particular disease. That can lead to a delay in diagnosis, but if a patient finds all their symptoms via google, they can at least try to discuss it with the doctor.

That's EXACTLY what happened with my Graves Disease diagnosis! Wasn't going to mention it but now I will.  

My GP sent me for a TSH level blood test but I knew I needed my T3 and T4 checked because TSH levels can change in women throughout the month.  I only knew this after I'd researched the blood tests etc and read the American forums and their blood work discussions. Went back to my GP and explained all this and she didn't even really consider it - to her credit she listened and arranged a second blood test with the T3 and T4 included and sure enough my Graves' disease was confirmed.  

Yes, the tests for that kind of thing need to be very thorough, and some doctors only test TSH, which isn't reliable. That's one way that googling can be very useful.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well so far, there aren't really any other tests. There are also conditions for which there are no particular tests - depression, anxiety, and some skin conditions spring to mind.

I'm not knocking doctors at all - I have a lot of respect for them - but people really have to question any diagnosis if they don't think it fits their symptoms, or if they have tests which are negative but they have symptoms which do fit a particular condition. I think google can be very useful in that respect. I don't mean anyone should self-medicate, but they should really ask the doctor to listen to them and not dismiss what they're saying. RA can take a long time to diagnose. Someone could also be seropositive and yet not have the typical symptoms.

Then its simple, get a second opinion, if you feel that way. Nobody is saying you should not seek more advice Rags. The reality is some conditions need specialists, like I have psoriasis and need to see a doctor who specializes in dermatology. There is no cure for my condition but there are things that have helped. ( I still have not tried Victors method, mainly as the sun has help clear again). I think google is a good tool in getting to know a diagnosed condition or where they are still trying to find out the problem. Where people developed symptoms and immediately google, creates confirmation bias and often leads to the wrong conclusions. At the end of the day its just listing possible illnesses for such symptoms and why its best to seek medical advice. My view is why waste time googling something when we already have a free service you can contact. Who can direct you to the best possible course of action.

A second opinion won't change the results of blood tests.

Psoriasis is an autoimmune condition, so how is a dermatologist an expert in it?

All I can say is that I had one diagnosis, and then another, neither of which seemed quite right, although they seemed reasonable at the time. By googling, I found my exact symptoms and could then discuss it with the doctor.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Then its simple, get a second opinion, if you feel that way. Nobody is saying you should not seek more advice Rags. The reality is some conditions need specialists, like I have psoriasis and need to see a doctor who specializes in dermatology. There is no cure for my condition but there are things that have helped. ( I still have not tried Victors method, mainly as the sun has help clear again). I think google is a good tool in getting to know a diagnosed condition or where they are still trying to find out the problem. Where people developed symptoms and immediately google, creates confirmation bias and often leads to the wrong conclusions. At the end of the day its just listing possible illnesses for such symptoms and why its best to seek medical advice. My view is why waste time googling something when we already have a free service you can contact. Who can direct you to the best possible course of action.

A second opinion won't change the results of blood tests.

Psoriasis is an autoimmune condition, so how is a dermatologist an expert in it?

All I can say is that I had one diagnosis, and then another, neither of which seemed quite right, although they seemed reasonable at the time. By googling, I found my exact symptoms and could then discuss it with the doctor.

A second opinion can come to a different conclusion over what it could be
You keep stagnated to blood tests based to conditions which can be hard detect ignoring many that do detect the conditions.

As to psoriasis they are expert in skin conditions, as well as understanding the autoimmune system that causes this. Weird question.

So were you referred to any specialists and is the fact you were not portraying your symptoms correctly?

Not being horrible, but half the problems is getting patients to be openly honest about the problems. Some can wrongly lead patients into thinking and agreeing to things unconnected. Again its allowing the patient to be as fully open about the condition and the GP can only go by what information is given to them