Can skeptical parents be persuaded to vaccinate?

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:16 pm

The beloved novelist and children’s author Roald Dahl once wrote an open letter describing how his daughter Olivia suffered from measles when she was 7 years old. Olivia seemed to be recovering, Dahl wrote, and he was sitting on her bed, teaching her how to build animals out of pipe cleaners, when he noticed that she had trouble coordinating her fingers’ movements.

“‘Are you feeling all right?’ I asked her.”

“‘I feel all sleepy,’ she said.”

“In 1 hour she was unconscious. In 12 hours she was dead.”

That happened in 1962, 1 year before the measles vaccine was developed. The virus had caused Olivia’s brain to swell—an often-fatal complication called measles encephalitis. Dahl wrote the letter for the Sandwell Health Authority in the United Kingdom in 1986, hoping it would help persuade parents to vaccinate their children. The letter began circulating again in 2015, when a large measles outbreak that began at Disneyland in Anaheim, California, sickened more than 100 children.

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SOURCE SCIENCE MAGAZINE

by Victorismyhero Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:34 pm

interesting article

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:44 pm

Lord Foul wrote:interesting article

Agreed, though I am interested to see what the skeptics say

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:46 pm

I think certain vaccines are a must such a MMR but flu and other vaccines need consideration . I don't believe in vaccinating for everything , but I understand the concern for vaccines .

by Guest Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:47 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think certain vaccines are a must such a MMR but flu and other vaccines need consideration . I don't believe in vaccinating for everything , but I understand the concern for vaccines .

Why is that Dibs?

Have you considered the death tolls before there was vaccines?

by veya_victaous Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:06 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think certain vaccines are a must such a MMR but flu and other vaccines need consideration . I don't believe in vaccinating for everything , but I understand the concern for vaccines .

I sort of Agree, Childhood vaccines are the important ones
various poxes and measles etc are a single infection type virus so vaccines essentially 'remove' it from the general population if the majority, over 95%, are vaccinated (herd immunity) but the far more dynamic seasonal viruses like Influenza are really only for personal benefit and are never going to remove influenza from society

by Raggamuffin Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:58 am

It's this MMR vaccine which causes concern though - ie, putting three vaccines together. No matter what experts say, there are people who swear that their child was fine until they had the MMR vaccine.

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:00 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It's this MMR vaccine which causes concern though - ie, putting three vaccines together. No matter what experts say, there are people who swear that their child was fine until they had the MMR vaccine.

How many would be fine without it?

Nobody is saying some don't have adverse effects, but that is not a reason to stop the vaccinations.

As it saves countless lives Rags

by Raggamuffin Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:10 am

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It's this MMR vaccine which causes concern though - ie, putting three vaccines together. No matter what experts say, there are people who swear that their child was fine until they had the MMR vaccine.

How many would be fine without it?

Nobody is saying some don't have adverse effects, but that is not a reason to stop the vaccinations.

As it saves countless lives Rags

I think there should be an option to have them as separate vaccines Didge. There might still be adverse effects, but I think it's the fear of the combined vaccine which is putting some people off.

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:14 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

How many would be fine without it?

Nobody is saying some don't have adverse effects, but that is not a reason to stop the vaccinations.

As it saves countless lives Rags

I think there should be an option to have them as separate vaccines Didge. There might still be adverse effects, but I think it's the fear of the combined vaccine which is putting some people off.

Interesting as then it would be about costs, of which I think there should never be a cost placed on saving lives. Having 3 separate would be more expensive I guess, though would have to look into.
I will have to research further on this to be honest to see if it makes any difference. Of which i am skeptical that it would, other than as you say ease the mind of some parents.

by eddie Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It's this MMR vaccine which causes concern though - ie, putting three vaccines together. No matter what experts say, there are people who swear that their child was fine until they had the MMR vaccine.

That's the problem. No one listens to the experts - in the cases of a lot of MMR 'victims' the parents are the experts.

No need for flu jabs either.

by Raggamuffin Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:01 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It's this MMR vaccine which causes concern though - ie, putting three vaccines together. No matter what experts say, there are people who swear that their child was fine until they had the MMR vaccine.

That's the problem. No one listens to the experts - in the cases of a lot of MMR 'victims' the parents are the experts.

No need for flu jabs either.

The experts may well be right, and the cases of autism or whatever might be coincidence. It doesn't matter though if someone has it in their head that three vaccines in one is harmful.

The jury's still out on flu jabs. I'm supposed to have one apparently, but I haven't done so. Again, so many people say they were ill after having one - coincidence maybe.

by eddie Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:38 pm

Three vaccine in one is unnecessary and potentially just shoving a cocktail of shit into a small person who's body cannot really handle it IMO.

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:42 pm

eddie wrote:Three vaccine in one is unnecessary and potentially just shoving a cocktail of shit into a small person who's body cannot really handle it IMO.

It clearly is safe, or they would not do it Eddie.

Do you really think medically people would knowingly put children in harms way?

The reality is again it saves countless lives and this is what people continually forget.

Again I have no seen any evidence that giving 3 is in anyway more dangerous than giving them seperatly

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:51 pm

http://www.healthtalk.org/peoples-experiences/pregnancy-children/immunisation/weighing-risk

http://www.healthtalk.org/peoples-experiences/pregnancy-children/immunisation/parents-concerns-about-mmr

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/mmr-vaccine.aspx

by eddie Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:14 pm

Logically and even the most ignorant of people could understand this: three single shots on separate occasions are far better for everyone, than giving three-shots-in-one.
Added to that, this three-in-one-shot is given on the exact same day, at the exact same time, as polio and another vaccine (which name escapes me ATM).

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:17 pm

eddie wrote:Logically and even the most ignorant of people could understand this: three single shots on separate occasions are far better for everyone, than giving three-shots-in-one.
Added to that, this three-in-one-shot is given on the exact same day, at the exact same time, as polio and another vaccine (which name escapes me ATM).

You keep making the same claims Eddie not backed up by anything other than a simple feeling you have

Again i gave you some links to read and listen to

by eddie Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:20 pm

Didge I can find you countless links that contradict what you say and actual testimonials from actual parents who's actual child developed actual symptoms after the actual vaccination.

But you wouldn't believe any of them so there's no actual point.

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:22 pm

eddie wrote:Didge I can find you countless links that contradict what you say and actual testimonials from actual parents who's actual child developed actual symptoms after the actual vaccination.

But you wouldn't believe any of them so there's no actual point.

Nobody has said children do not get symptoms, of which they would the same if given separately.

You clearly also did not look at the links either

Again you have absolutely zero medical understanding Eddie and I am not being horrible here either. You simple believe what you read. That is faith again and not basing anything actually on facts.

by eddie Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:33 pm

I believe actual testimonials from people who have actually been through it over faceless experts.
Yes.

So we will agree to differ.

by Guest Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:33 pm

eddie wrote:I believe actual testimonials from people who have actually been through it over faceless experts.
Yes.

So we will agree to differ.

Like I said, its down to faith again for you

by Guest Mon May 01, 2017 7:02 am

Six common misconceptions about immunization

"Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system".

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to four to ten antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50.

According to "Adverse events Associated with childhood vaccines", a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine in the United States, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immuno-suppressive."

Indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies and reviews have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects.

Research is under way to find ways to combine more antigens in a single vaccine injection (for example, measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) and chickenpox). This will provide all the advantages of the individual vaccines, but will require fewer shots. There are two practical factors in favour of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. This generally means giving inactivated vaccines beginning at two months and live vaccines at 12 months. The various vaccine doses thus tend to fall due at the same time. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer clinic visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child. In countries where there is a likelihood of reduced contact with the health care system, there is an added advantage of ensuring that there are no missed opportunities to complete the recommended vaccinations for a child.

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/detection/immunization_misconceptions/en/index6.html

by Guest Mon May 01, 2017 7:04 am

Early vaccination is important to prevent diseases.

Can skeptical parents be persuaded to vaccinate? Concerns-multiple

Children are given shots (vaccines) at a young age because this is when they are at highest risk of getting sick or dying if they get these diseases. Newborn babies are immune to some diseases because they have antibodies they get from their mothers, usually before they are born. However, this immunity lasts a few months. Most babies do not get protective antibodies against diphtheria, whooping cough, polio, tetanus, hepatitis B, or Hib from their mothers. This is why it’s important to vaccinate a child before she or he is exposed to a disease.
Vaccines contain weakened or killed versions of the germs that cause a disease. These elements of vaccines, and other molecules and micro-organisms that stimulate the immune system, are called “antigens.” Babies are exposed to thousands of germs and other antigens in the environment from the time they are born. When a baby is born, his or her immune system is ready to respond to the many antigens in the environment and the selected antigens in vaccines.

Different childhood vaccines can be given at the same time.

Many vaccines are recommended early in life to protect young children from dangerous infectious diseases. In order to reduce the number of shots a child receives in a doctor’s visit, some vaccines are offered as combination vaccines. A combination vaccine is two or more different vaccines that have been combined into a single shot. Combination vaccines have been in use in the United States since the mid-1940s. Examples of combination vaccines are: DTap (diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis), trivalent IPV (three strains of inactivated polio vaccine), MMR (measles-mumps-rubella), DTap-Hib, and Hib-Hep B.

Often, more than one shot will be given during the same doctor’s visit, usually in separate limbs (e.g. one in each arm). For example, a baby might get DTaP in one arm or leg and IPV in another arm or leg during the same visit.

Giving a child several vaccines during the same visit offers two advantages.

First, children should be given their vaccines as quickly as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several shots at the same time means fewer office visits. This saves parents time and money, and can be less traumatic for the child.

Getting multiple vaccines at the same time has been shown to be safe.

Scientific data show that getting several vaccines at the same time does not cause any chronic health problems. A number of studies have been done to look at the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines, and when every new vaccine is licensed, it has been tested along with the vaccines already recommended for a particular aged child. The recommended vaccines have been shown to be as effective in combination as they are individually. Sometimes, certain combinations of vaccines given together can cause fever, and occasionally febrile seizures; these are temporary and do not cause any lasting damage. Based on this information, both the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommend getting all routine childhood vaccines on time.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/multiple-vaccines-immunity.html

by Guest Mon May 01, 2017 7:06 am

Can the MMR vaccination be given as three separate injections?

No, not on the NHS. The MMR vaccine consists of a combination of three individual vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella in a single shot.

The NHS does not recommend single measles, mumps or rubella vaccines, as there is no evidence to support their use or to suggest that they are safer than MMR. Having single vaccines could also put your child at risk of catching measles, mumps or rubella in the time between the doses of each of the vaccines.

Some private clinics in the UK offer single vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella, but the NHS does not keep a list of them because clinics that offer these privately are unlicensed, which means there are no checks on their safety and effectiveness.

No country in the world recommends MMR and then offers parents a choice of having single vaccines instead. Every independent expert group around the world (including the World Health Organization) supports the use of MMR, and none support the use of single vaccines.

Read about why single vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella are not available on the NHS.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/mmr-questions-answers.aspx

by Original Quill Mon May 01, 2017 4:36 pm

With the foreknowledge that no one will understand or care, in my view this is the classic clash between individualism and socialism.

Disease knows no boundary. It attacks and spreads through groups of people. It is social. The people who resist vaccination are inevitably asserting an individual right. You have to get socialism in order to understand the group concern.

This is a classic case of the imperfection and failing of individualism. Life is social. In Nature, we are by definition, and in real life, social beings. All of the blemishes in our political life come from the fact that individualism denies our social being.

by JulesV Mon May 01, 2017 6:19 pm

"Can skeptical parents be persuaded to vaccinate?"

Well just tell the mums that the chances of complications of a vaccination are diminishingly small. Armed with that info they can decide for themselves if they are willing to take the risk of leaving their offspring unprotected.

You can also try a bit of emotional blackmail by saying that for as long as there are unprotected kids around, there will always be a small reservoir of infection in the community. Vaccinating every kid is probably the only realistic way of rendering the virus extinct.

And if that doesn't work either, give it up. Can't win 'em all !

by Guest Mon May 01, 2017 10:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:With the foreknowledge that no one will understand or care, in my view this is the classic clash between individualism and socialism.

Disease knows no boundary. It attacks and spreads through groups of people. It is social. The people who resist vaccination are inevitably asserting an individual right. You have to get socialism in order to understand the group concern.

This is a classic case of the imperfection and failing of individualism. Life is social. In Nature, we are by definition, and in real life, social beings. All of the blemishes in our political life come from the fact that individualism denies our social being.

Actually its about some parents stupidly placing their children's lives at risk.

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Can skeptical parents be persuaded to vaccinate?