Mum and children told to leave playgroup because they were not 'multicultural' .

First topic message reminder :

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/family-relationships/mum-told-to-leave-playgroup-for-not-being-multicultural/ar-BBzdVdQ?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp#image=1

This happened in Australia. I put it in 'weird news' because its so..... weird.
Anyone being barred from taking their children to play in a playgroup because they are not multicultural enough is as discriminating as barring someone because they are foreign born surely.


"According to Ms Coverdale, after explaining to one of the centre’s staff that she was a fourth-generation Australian, the staff member replied: “I’m sorry, you can’t come here. It’s for multicultural families and people who speak languages other than English at home.”

Thorin wrote:Its temporary is it?

Like in South Africa and Zimbabwe?

You live in a fantasy land as stated only ever fixated on racism towards blacks.

All racism is wrong.

All discrimination is wrong

There is no truth you have said that has upset me, its your piss poor revisionist history.

I mean lets recap, you claimed racism was an ancient law?

That was revisionist history, when racism formed in the last few centuries.

You do not offer solutions to racism, but look to promote hate instead.

I mean how is that tackling hate, by promoting hate as you do against people's political beliefs in Republicanism?

You make yourself comparable to those who hate Muslims

Both are ideologies.

I look to be critical of poor beliefs and look for change, but you end up being the poster boy for the Republicans, with the irrational view points you make. They love people like you hating them.

You then end with a racial slur yourself, showing again you have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

You don;t fight hate with hate, you fight it with reason, love, compassion etc

Since negotiating is the art de jour, ask yourself the first question of negotiation.  Who has the power?  Color it anyway you want--American, English, South African or European--the white male predominates.  All of this riff-raff on the side is just noise...cute arguments, cute actors.  You can't discriminated against, when you have the power.  You'd slap 'em down and be done with it.

The way to change it is to change the orientation.  Education of young people is the key.  Kids learn racial hatred from parents...they unlearn it by lessons, but more than that, by interacting with the other kids and learning, hey, they're nice.

You keep the stereotypes going--we're white, and we're discriminated against--and you're the discriminator.  Blend in, and allow others to blend in.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:Its temporary is it?

Like in South Africa and Zimbabwe?

You live in a fantasy land as stated only ever fixated on racism towards blacks.

All racism is wrong.

All discrimination is wrong

There is no truth you have said that has upset me, its your piss poor revisionist history.

I mean lets recap, you claimed racism was an ancient law?

That was revisionist history, when racism formed in the last few centuries.

You do not offer solutions to racism, but look to promote hate instead.

I mean how is that tackling hate, by promoting hate as you do against people's political beliefs in Republicanism?

You make yourself comparable to those who hate Muslims

Both are ideologies.

I look to be critical of poor beliefs and look for change, but you end up being the poster boy for the Republicans, with the irrational view points you make. They love people like you hating them.

You then end with a racial slur yourself, showing again you have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

You don;t fight hate with hate, you fight it with reason, love, compassion etc

Since negotiating is the art de jour, ask yourself the first question of negotiation.  Who has the power?  Color it anyway you want--American, English, South African or European--the white male predominates.  All of this riff-raff on the side is just noise...cute arguments, cute actors.  You can't discriminated against, when you have the power.  You'd slap 'em down and be done with it.

The way to change it is to change the orientation.  Education of young people is the key.  Kids learn racial hatred from parents...they unlearn it by lessons, but more than that, by interacting with the other kids and learning, hey, they're nice.

You keep the stereotypes going--we're white, and we're discriminated against--and you're the discriminator.  Blend in, and allow others to blend in.

People have the power.

If people submit to racism, then racism will continue to exist.

Are you saying people cannot decide their future?

I can give glowing examples where people have chosen their furture based on peace and not hate.
All you do is ensure exactly what has happened in South Africa and Zimbabwe, that this hate continues.

You do not look for reconciliation, but continue to live off the past and even worse fail to even learn from the past.

Well how does the white dominate in Africa?

Or Asia?

Please explain that to me, because again its evident you are again centralizing on the US.

I mean do you even contemplate the continued hate you are promoting?

Instead of looking to reconcile people in the US, you wish to continue a race hate war

That is evident when you invoke racial slurs like "redneck". If someone had refereed to Islamist's as "Ragheads" it would be deemed rightly as racist.

All you do is enable hate. The way to change this, is to teach people, that we are all humans, from many different ethnic groups. Like I said, start by treating all Americans as Americans and not separate as black and white. You just back up the other side of the racist argument, by continuing to divide the American people.

So if education is the key, why have you not learnt a damn thing on racism?

As I have said earlier, the need to stop blaming the past for the problems of today is key. That places of learning should be inclusive to all. Treating people as Americans and not separate by their skin colour. You deny the source for racism and it has no foundation to be used.

I don't see myself as white or any colour figuration. I am merely Human and a British and English Citizen. You see its you that give ammunition to the likes of Tommy by the use of colour, who claims people of dark skin cannot be English. When being English is just a concept. You see its people like you that enable racism, by sticking stubbornly to racial labels.

Racism, will always remain, while there is racists and regressives like you.

Thorin wrote:Are you saying people cannot decide their future?

Of course not. But by 'people', we have to take into consideration all the people.

The community decides what is moral and fair. If the community decides that a certain sub-group is inferior, they are assigned that label. People in the UK are wont to discriminate against Muslims. People in the US are wont to discriminate against Hispanics, and really discriminate against blacks.

That's why discrimination is so hard to get rid of. You're not changing one person's mind, but many. Another aspect of a group mentality, is there are counter-forces of discrimination. People don't want to change...they don't like to change. If you try to change discrimination, there are devotees who will invent stories and reasons to resist the effort.

So it's a slow and arduous process. It takes time. Only education is the entrance into the process. We can't change biased parents. We can't change biased officials and biased systems. A person can change his or her mind, but only a teacher can change the group.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:Are you saying people cannot decide their future?

Of course not.  But by 'people', we have to take into consideration all the people.

The community decides what is moral and fair.  If the community decides that a certain sub-group is inferior, they are assigned that label.  People in the UK are wont to discriminate against Muslims.  People in the US are wont to discriminate against Hispanics, and really discriminate against blacks.

That's why discrimination is so hard to get rid of.  You're not changing one person's mind, but many.  Another aspect of a group mentality, is there are counter-forces of discrimination.  People don't want to change...they don't like to change.  If you try to change discrimination, there are devotees who will invent stories and reasons to resist the effort.

So it's a slow and arduous process.  It takes time.  Only education is the entrance into the process.  We can't change biased parents.  We can't change biased officials and biased systems.  A person can change his or her mind, but only a teacher can change the group.

What is the point of this debate when you avoid everything said?

My parents were biased against homosexuality

They changed, just as people change..

They did not need education for this to see how wrong they could be, but reason

Like I said, by your view you continue the issue of racism. Where instead of looking to resolve issues, you main fuel them.

People can stand up and speak out, people just need the belief and courage to do so.
Example Martin Luther King

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Of course not.  But by 'people', we have to take into consideration all the people.

The community decides what is moral and fair.  If the community decides that a certain sub-group is inferior, they are assigned that label.  People in the UK are wont to discriminate against Muslims.  People in the US are wont to discriminate against Hispanics, and really discriminate against blacks.

That's why discrimination is so hard to get rid of.  You're not changing one person's mind, but many.  Another aspect of a group mentality, is there are counter-forces of discrimination.  People don't want to change...they don't like to change.  If you try to change discrimination, there are devotees who will invent stories and reasons to resist the effort.

So it's a slow and arduous process.  It takes time.  Only education is the entrance into the process.  We can't change biased parents.  We can't change biased officials and biased systems.  A person can change his or her mind, but only a teacher can change the group.

What is the point of this debate when you avoid everything said?

I've addressed everything you've raised. It's just, you repeat your arguments so often.

Thorin wrote:My parents were biased against homosexuality

They changed, just as people change..

They did not need education for this to see how wrong they could be, but reason

Good for them. But I repeat, the individual mind can change. However, bias takes place over a community of minds. The only person who can change singular minds in a collective mass, is the educator. Education is the key.

Thorin wrote:Like I said, by your view you continue the issue of racism. Where instead of looking to resolve issues, you main fuel them.

People can stand up and speak out, people just need the belief and courage to do so.
Example Martin Luther King

Martin Luther King was an educator. There are lots of different forms of educators. The educators are the ones who stand up and shout the message to the masses. Of course, the most prevalent form is the classroom educator, who can affect classrooms of children. But speakers and campaigners, too, can be educators.

Read Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Émile, Treatise on Education.

No you copied across just one sentence and avoided all other points

Again the debate is not going to be dictated on your terms

Martin Luther King was an American Hero and champion of civil rights.

He was not afraid to speak out on wrongs

More like him are needed

He did not advocate violence or hate but for a peaceful future.

I am not going to read any crap you recommend

Thorin wrote:No you copied across just one sentence and avoided all other points

That's because you repeat yourself so.  People would lose interest if I repeated the answer every time you proffered the same argument.  It's just efficiency.

Thorin wrote:Again the debate is not going to be dictated on your terms

Debate is a cooperative effort.  You need to develop a sense of give and take.

Thorin wrote:Martin Luther King was an American Hero and champion of civil rights.

He was not afraid to speak out on wrongs

More like him are needed

He did not advocate violence or hate but for a peaceful future.

I am not going to read any crap you recommend

And King's moral message educated many, many people.

You don't want to read Rousseau?  How about any of the other classics of philosophy?  Plato?  Thomas Aquinas?  Hume?  Descartes?  You're missing some good stuff.

So now further excuses and that means you could not answer my points.

No, you try to dictate as seen countless times here by ignoring many points and only copying across a couple of sentences.

If its a two way street, that means you engage all points.

You never do Quill
Martin Luther was more than a teacher.

He spoke against hate, which you still promote hate

Go figure

Why would I want to read others, (even tough I have) when I can form views for myself?

Thorin wrote:So now further excuses and that means you could not answer my points.

No, you try to dictate as seen countless times here by ignoring many points and only copying across a couple of sentences.

If its a two way street, that means you engage all points.

Yes, but with efficiency.  When you make the same argument 5-times, I collect them all and answer them once.  Saves time, space, and reader patience.

Thorin wrote:You never do Quill
Martin Luther was more than a teacher.

He spoke against hate, which you still promote hate

Go figure

Indeed, both Martin Luther and Martin Luther King were teachers.  Their message was against hate and in favor of understanding.

Perhaps I am not always peaceful, but I do oppose war and killing of babies.  I don't support, for example, Israels hawkish tendencies.  And I do favor understanding.

Thorin wrote:Why would I want to read others, (even tough I have) when I can form views for myself?

Donno, try this...



Two birds...one stone.

So you failed to again answer and even after claiming you would answer them

Martin Luther hated Jews and did not spread love or peace

Ever heard of Lutheranism?

Its what made it easy for many Germans to hate Jews

So you are also a Nazi apologist it seems, with failing to understand the impact of Lutheranism on Nazism.

You know I mean Luther King, but hey ho.

Enough said really

Thorin wrote:So you failed to again answer and even after claiming you would answer them

Martin Luther hated Jews and did not spread love or peace

Ever heard of Lutheranism?

Yes, well...I never conversed with the gentleman.  He was busy with some hammer and some nails.

Thorin wrote:Its what made it easy for many Germans to hate Jews

So you are also a Nazi apologist it seems, with failing to understand the impact of Lutheranism on Nazism.

Enough said really

You've allowed yourself to get upset, didge.  I've merely tried to use humor to keep those bored by your repetitious arguments from falling asleep.  Have a little fun.

Er when you belittle racism towards whites, and you have never suffered racism and I have.

That makes you a complete dick, when I generally respect you

That is what annoys me, and you champion hate over reason

That is even worse, by then invoking racial slurs

Making a mockery of your claim to stand against racism

Go figure

Didn't Martin Luther King say that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal?

Raggamuffin wrote:Didn't Martin Luther King say that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal?

Is that all what he said?

Context again Rags?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Didn't Martin Luther King say that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal?

Is that all what he said?

Context again Rags?

Oh, so now you want context. You didn't want context all the way through the other thread.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Is that all what he said?

Context again Rags?

Oh, so now you want context. You didn't want context all the way through the other thread.

Well, it helps if you post all that was said Miss nazi apologist

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh, so now you want context. You didn't want context all the way through the other thread.

Well, it helps if you post all that was said Miss nazi apologist

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers.

You weren't interested in everything that Ken said, Mr Muslim hater.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well, it helps if you post all that was said Miss nazi apologist

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers.

You weren't interested in everything that Ken said, Mr Muslim hater.

I dont hate Muslims, Miss Nazi Apologist, who thinks the Holocaust was down to madness and not ideological hate

Talk about misdirection

Like I said

Stop being a puppet to far left babble

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You weren't interested in everything that Ken said, Mr Muslim hater.

I dont hate Muslims, Miss Nazi Apologist, who thinks the Holocaust was down to madness and not ideological hate

Talk about misdirection

Like I said

Stop being a puppet to far left babble

Yes you do. You love it when Israeli soldiers kill Palestinians.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I dont hate Muslims, Miss Nazi Apologist, who thinks the Holocaust was down to madness and not ideological hate

Talk about misdirection

Like I said

Stop being a puppet to far left babble

Yes you do. You love it when Israeli soldiers kill Palestinians.

Do I?

I defend the right of people to defend themselves from terrorist attacks

How is it today an IDF soldier was killed and one wounded and the attacker caught alive Rags?

Talk about misdirection

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes you do. You love it when Israeli soldiers kill Palestinians.

Do I?

I defend the right of people to defend themselves from terrorist attacks

How is it today an IDF soldier was killed and one wounded and the attacker caught alive Rags?

Talk about misdirection

Yes you do.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Do I?

I defend the right of people to defend themselves from terrorist attacks

How is it today an IDF soldier was killed and one wounded and the attacker caught alive Rags?

Talk about misdirection

Yes you do.

So we are back to punch and judy it seems

lol