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Norway Proves That Treating Prison Inmates As Human Beings Actually Works

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Tommy Monk
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Norway Proves That Treating Prison Inmates As Human Beings Actually Works Empty Norway Proves That Treating Prison Inmates As Human Beings Actually Works

Post by eddie Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:44 am

“Treat people like dirt, and they will be dirt. Treat them like human beings, and they will act like human beings.”

Bastoy is an open prison, a concept born in Finland during the 1930s and now part of the norm throughout Scandinavia, where prisoners can sometimes keep their jobs on the outside while serving time, commuting daily. Thirty percent of Norway’s prisons are open, and Bastoy, a notorious reformatory for boys converted in 1982 to a prison, is considered the crown jewel of them all.

BASTOY ISLAND, Norway ― “Prison?” I asked the two deckhands, after a train carried me to the ferry.

“Yes,” said one of the men, rubbing his hands together for warmth. He looked me up and down with arrogant blue eyes. “But sorry, it is only for men.” He laughed. “Come, come, you’re in the right place.”

I looked up at the masthead and noticed that it was crowned by a dead, stuffed swan.

“We found it frozen in a block of ice, years ago,” said the other deckhand. He wore a black ski hat and had a wizened, kindly face.

“It’s creepy-looking,” I said.

“You think so? Our mascot. You are afraid of criminals?” he suddenly asked. Before I could answer, “We are criminals.” I looked into his eyes; they were laughing. Was he kidding?

“Really, we are. Criminals. Are you afraid?”

“Why would I be?” I shrugged. I still wasn’t sure if he was joking.

“I am Wiggo,” he said, offering a handshake. He was indeed a prisoner, serving a 21-year sentence, the maximum in Norway, but he’ll likely be out next year.

Cato, the other deckhand, was serving one and a half years for intention to commit a criminal act, though he insisted he’s innocent. He and Wiggo brought me to a vestibule to show me their daily schedule, posted on the wall.

“We work the 6-to-noon shift,” Cato said. “Then we go back to the prison and relax or exercise. Come, you want to meet the captain? He is not a prisoner. The only one who isn’t, on this boat.”

Upstairs, the sturdy captain shook my hand.

“You talking to those criminals?” he said, with a laugh. I was lapping up this playful mockery of the scary-criminals mentality. There was clearly nothing to be afraid of here, and everyone seemed to know it.

It’s a total erasure of boundaries between ‘us’ and ‘them.’
As the boat set sail, I spied Bastoy, a cluster of gangly pine trees in a gray sea stretching toward a gray sky. Inside the boat’s small seating area, Cato sat down next to me and turned on the TV, flipping to the History Channel.

“Are you on Facebook?” he asked.

“You’re allowed Facebook? And internet?” I countered.

“Not while over there.” He pointed to the pine trees. “But yes, when we are on home leave.” I jotted down my name on a slip of paper. For the first time since my arrival, a thin line of blue sky appeared overhead.
“They say it is a summer camp, Bastoy,” said Wiggo, as I left the cabin to disembark. He was almost reprimanding me. “You will maybe think so. But no, it is prison. Trust me. We have our life stopped. Frozen.”

I pointed to the swan. “Like your mascot. Frozen. Even on a beautiful island.”

Read more http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/norway-prison_us_578418b6e4b0e05f05232cb7?utm_hp_ref=social-issues


Seems like a brilliant idea to me.

“In Norway, when you’re released, you’re released,” he replied. “No big stigma. One guy I know spent 18 years in prison and is now living in my neighborhood. A normal old guy. No one cares. You find this a lot. I have many friends who’ve been to prison. Norwegians are very forgiving people.” He paused. “Strange because we weren’t always like that.”
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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:57 am

You'd have to get people to let go of their lust for vengeance, and that seems to be too tall an order in places like the UK and U.S.

But let's say that hurting people actually made them behave better. Wouldn't that be empty, to act right simply out of fear of punishment?
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Post by eddie Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:14 am

Do you mean that living in a world of fear is worse than living in....the world of fear that we do already?
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Post by HoratioTarr Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:46 pm

This kind of thing doesn't work on all people.
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Post by eddie Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:49 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:This kind of thing doesn't work on all people.

What do you think that? Out of curiosity.
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Post by HoratioTarr Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:13 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:This kind of thing doesn't work on all people.

What do you think that? Out of curiosity.

I think I've lost count of the times I've read about killers who are given lenient sentences then let out to kill again.   I'm not saying be brutal to those in prison, but never assume that being kind to them 'cures' or reforms their criminal tendencies.
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Post by Original Quill Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:20 pm

I think you are missing the proper equivalency. The idea is not that it is a cure. The idea is that you don't create a criminal environment, which then turns into or creates criminal tendencies.

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Post by eddie Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:I think you are missing the proper equivalency.  The idea is not that it is a cure.  The idea is that you don't create a criminal environment, which then turns into or creates criminal tendencies.

That's it exactly.

I think it's worth trying in other countries.
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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:28 pm

We already have 'open prisons' here in uk...


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Post by Original Quill Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:57 am

Tommy Monk wrote:We already have 'open prisons' here in uk...

The devil is in the details. What do you mean by 'open prisons'?

I doubt it is the same as we are talking about in Norway.

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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:20 pm

Open prisons have been in use in the UK since 1936. They are the "most effective" way of making sure prisoners are suitably risk-assessed before being released into the community under licence conditions, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice said.

Conditions in open prisons differ between establishments. However, in most, prisoners have their own cells and can spend more time around the facility. There are also more activities and the opportunity to work in the community.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-are-open-prisons-how-secure-are-they-1453064
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Post by Ben Reilly Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:02 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:This kind of thing doesn't work on all people.

What do you think that? Out of curiosity.

I think I've lost count of the times I've read about killers who are given lenient sentences then let out to kill again.   I'm not saying be brutal to those in prison, but never assume that being kind to them 'cures' or reforms their criminal tendencies.

Here's what I'd ask you -- for every one killer you've read about who got a lenient sentence and then went out to kill again, how many more never killed again?

The news media isn't a window to the world, it shines a spotlight on the unusual.
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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:43 pm



That is not justification for lenient sentences...
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Post by JulesV Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:45 pm

Hope Anders Brevic isn't getting too excited at this news.

Something tells me none of this is applicable to him.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:40 am

Original Quill wrote:I think you are missing the proper equivalency.  The idea is not that it is a cure.  The idea is that you don't create a criminal environment, which then turns into or creates criminal tendencies.


What are you waffling about...!?

You don't create criminal tendencies in criminals by putting them in prison... you create prisons to put the criminals with criminal tendencies in to...!


An environment full of criminals is by definition a criminal environment... they are there as a result of being criminals, not caused to be criminals by just being put there and through no fault of their own...!


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Post by 'Wolfie Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:05 am

Idea

There are "low security" prisons here in Australia, where prisoners can earn the right to 'day release' to attend paid employment, or study at college, or go shopping occasionally --  but still have to be back for muster by certain time...

They are still under strict conditions, and told what they can and cannot do..  Some petty crimes that are still serious enough to deserve jail time may have "weekend detention" in such facilities, but are still able to attend work 5 days a week.

What goes on at these low security prisons is separate from the normal run jails, and the high security, "SuperMax" and criminally insane type facilities..

As for Brevik, I would imagine that he's spending the rest of his life in either the Norwegian equivalent of a SuperMax prison, or alternatively in a specially-built ultra-secure wing somewhere.
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Post by veya_victaous Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:43 am

down here we also have weekend detention, as in you go to jail on Friday night get released Sunday night.

it seems to work and is supposed to be limited to non violent offenders
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Post by 'Wolfie Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:50 am

Norway Proves That Treating Prison Inmates As Human Beings Actually Works 479860004

I've known a couple of people over the years who were sentenced to "weekend detention", over two or three years...

One was a motor mechanic who had assisted a couple of car thieves in re-badging cars; while another had been caught with a quantity of drugs, without actually being a regular dealer..

Both of them received weekend detention because they also had full time jobs at the time, hadn't actually hurt anyone dorectly, and probably were considered to have a low chance of re-offending.

Twelve months of weekend detention would be 104 days of confinement, which equates to nearly 15 weeks if served outright -- or roughly three-and-a-half months --  to put things in context..
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Post by JulesV Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:36 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Norway Proves That Treating Prison Inmates As Human Beings Actually Works 479860004

I've known a couple of people over the years who were sentenced to "weekend detention", over two or three years...

One was a motor mechanic who had assisted a couple of car thieves in re-badging cars; while another had been caught with a quantity of drugs, without actually being a regular dealer..

Both of them received weekend detention because they also had full time jobs at the time, hadn't actually hurt anyone dorectly, and probably were considered to have a low chance of re-offending.

Twelve months of weekend detention would be 104 days of confinement, which equates to nearly 15 weeks if served outright --  or roughly three-and-a-half months --  to put things in context..


One of the reasons for incarcerating people is to protect them from the anger of the public. If a guy has done something really bad to someone else, the victim's family may not be able to tolerate the sight of him swanning around and getting on happily with his life, after severely damaging someone else's.

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Post by Syl Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

That is not justification for lenient sentences...

Maybe its not the length of the sentence but how they are treated whilst they are in prison that's the main problem.
Prisons in the UK are over crowded and corrupt. Many prisoners have less than an hour a day in the open air...they should have access to exercise, tuition, therapy, in short be helped to make better of themselves not left to waste away, drugged up for years.
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