Pope suggests it’s better to be an atheist than a bad Christian

I don't think (and never have thought) that violent criminals get the right to be the spokespeople for a religious faith. Not Osama bin Laden, not Scott Roeder.

I don't believe in heaven, I believe in sarcasm. I have devout faith in sarcasm.

I think the idea that you can be a rotten bastard but if you believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, you're fine, is total bullshit. I think if Jesus was real, He would back me up on that. He seemed to set a pretty high bar with the life He led ...

I think the point the Pope was trying to drive home is that your faith gives you no right to be a dick, which sadly, a lot of faithful people don't seem to understand.

Good post.

Ben Reilly wrote:I don't think (and never have thought) that violent criminals get the right to be the spokespeople for a religious faith. Not Osama bin Laden, not Scott Roeder.

I don't believe in heaven, I believe in sarcasm. I have devout faith in sarcasm.

I think the idea that you can be a rotten bastard but if you believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, you're fine, is total bullshit. I think if Jesus was real, He would back me up on that. He seemed to set a pretty high bar with the life He led ...

I think the point the Pope was trying to drive home is that your faith gives you no right to be a dick, which sadly, a lot of faithful people don't seem to understand.

I agree on everything you said Ben and where we are certainly comparable, but and here is the big but. You happily admit to where any religion is a problem, like Christianity, but for some reason, place your head firmly in the sand when it comes to problems with Islam. You do this based off a poor belief, that its then bigotry against Muslims.

Its not.

If you advocate Universal Human rights, then you speak out against anything that conflicts that.
This includes me, including things that I support, like certain Israeli policies. Where I will also condemn policies. If they conflict with Universal human rights.

The problem is, that religion does give people a belief, they can be dicks and do this in the name of that belief, because they are brainwashed on a diet of fear. A fear born of death. I mean you have in the Abrahamic faiths an over kill of this fear, with punishment and yet they like Politicians entice people with bullshit. They tell you to lead a life a certain way, but always have a get out clause. In Christianity, you can be a mass genocidal murderer and on your death bed accept Jesus and be saved. With Islam, you can commit the worst barbarity, and all this will be forgiven, if you die in the defense of that belief.

What it shows is religions are just a form of control, for those insecure and plagued with anxiety.
I am glad more people need to stand up and speak out on wrongs taught in religion, but it should never have any protection religious ideologies. Religious people should from prejudice, but their beliefs do not.

This is why people who in fear of offending believers of one faith, based because they fear it will be racism, because they are generally not white these believers. Are hypocritical, as they never shy away from being overly critical of those cast within their same ethnic group who follow a religion that their ancestors followed. That is okay, because most Christians are not as over sensitive to criticism, as some in Islam is. But by the very fact you shy away from condemning said bad beliefs. You fail to protect those suffering human rights abuses.

Until you are openly vocal on condemning all those beliefs that conflict with Universal rights. Then you fail to champion secularism and atheism.

I never set out to promote either of those things - - just peace.

Ben Reilly wrote:I never set out to promote either of those things - - just peace.

How about Universal human rights?

Ben Reilly wrote:I don't think (and never have thought) that violent criminals get the right to be the spokespeople for a religious faith. Not Osama bin Laden, not Scott Roeder.

I don't believe in heaven, I believe in sarcasm. I have devout faith in sarcasm.

I think the idea that you can be a rotten bastard but if you believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, you're fine, is total bullshit. I think if Jesus was real, He would back me up on that. He seemed to set a pretty high bar with the life He led ...

I think the point the Pope was trying to drive home is that your faith gives you no right to be a dick, which sadly, a lot of faithful people don't seem to understand.

Well yes, but it's not an original idea, so I'm not sure why some people seem to think he's said something new. I do think though that some people expect Christians to be perfect, and they're not going to be because they're human. They have emotions, they get angry, and they make mistakes. They are sometimes tempted to do something wrong. If someone does behave badly and are genuinely sorry, they will be forgiven.

I think that being an atheist doesn't give anyone the right to be a dick either, and it doesn't give someone the right to judge those who have faith but aren't perfect.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:The Pope is right anyway. It's better to not do something than do it badly.

Having faith isn't the same as "doing something".

What amazes me is that people seem to think that the Pope said something original. He didn't - it's something that many people say - often with the intention of abusing those with faith. Mrs Jones down the road might have said it, but it wouldn't be in the papers.

It's not for the Pope to decide who has the right to call themselves a believer or not IMO.  Catholics might follow what he says, but other Christians do not - they follow what their faith says, and/or what the Bible says.

It's also amazing how many atheists on here are suddenly so impressed with the leader of the Catholic Church, and suddenly seem to believe in Heaven.

My question is - if a Muslim commits an act of terrorism, is he/she still not a Muslim?

Well said and very good question .

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

another with nothing but lip service  

even as a devout heretic, worshipper of Ancient serpent gods, I can acknowledge that Pope Francis is a Good man and truly devoted to the teachings of Christ, as closes to Christ in action as any pope in living memory. and Vastly closer than any born again, protestant or evangelical that thinks that 'Faith' is the important part of Christ's message


Try following the teaching of Christ instead of trying to find loophole to allow your evil soul in to heaven

You got there in the end - well done.

He doesn't really understand the gospel , Catholics pray to Mary they believe she can ask her son Jesus to answer prayers . It isn't biblical but i guess it makes veya feel he is getting at born again Christians by sticking up for the pope even though they don't believe in God but will call Christians evil and don't believe in heaven . I find that quite amusing .

Ben Reilly wrote:I don't think (and never have thought) that violent criminals get the right to be the spokespeople for a religious faith. Not Osama bin Laden, not Scott Roeder.

I don't believe in heaven, I believe in sarcasm. I have devout faith in sarcasm.

I think the idea that you can be a rotten bastard but if you believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, you're fine, is total bullshit. I think if Jesus was real, He would back me up on that. He seemed to set a pretty high bar with the life He led ...

I think the point the Pope was trying to drive home is that your faith gives you no right to be a dick, which sadly, a lot of faithful people don't seem to understand.

Jesus said it very clearly that ' he who believes in me will never perish ' that means we are not going to lose our salvation - that would make him a liar . Look the pope isn't perfect nobody is perfect . Just because Christians do things wrong doesn't make them a dick or rotten bastard , we all do things wrong . I don't know a single person who is perfect its just not possible .

I've always said that when a person claims to be a Christian then they won't go out and deliberately do stuff wrong but every single person on this planet do stuff wrong and that includes the pope .

The promise of salvation is sealed once a believer accepts Christ .

The Pope does seem to be equating bad Christians with atheists, therefore implying that atheists are bad people. Still, it's nice that some atheists think that's OK.

Raggamuffin wrote:The Pope does seem to be equating bad Christians with atheists, therefore implying that atheists are bad people. Still, it's nice that some atheists think that's OK.

I never said it was okay and to be honest, I was not surprised he would say that.

At the end of the day he is entitled to his views